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np: UU - A New Beginning
- Thread starter RBG
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I've actually seen Smeargle once or twice; both were used as Ingrain passers, though, not as leads.
On a different note, I've been wanting to make a team of some of my favorite Pokemon. Problem is, most of my favorite Pokemon tend to be on the slow side or rather frail. Does anyone have any ideas for a team consisting of the following?
Crobat, Lanturn, Bellossom, Mismagius.
If Crobat becomes BL (or when they finally implement the Suspect testing), I'll probably replace it with Arcanine. I also really like Curse Regirock, but its poor typing has let me down in the past.
On a different note, I've been wanting to make a team of some of my favorite Pokemon. Problem is, most of my favorite Pokemon tend to be on the slow side or rather frail. Does anyone have any ideas for a team consisting of the following?
Crobat, Lanturn, Bellossom, Mismagius.
If Crobat becomes BL (or when they finally implement the Suspect testing), I'll probably replace it with Arcanine. I also really like Curse Regirock, but its poor typing has let me down in the past.
Oh, I never meant to profess it as anything new. It could just be fun in UU too. :P
I've thought of using Spore/Mean Look/Baton Pass Smeargle as a way of getting in something like Linoone for free. I have a feeling it would work if I can get in without breaking my Sash, except my team already has very little switching-in power as is.
Alternatively, I may test a similar Umbreon using Yawn or perhaps Charm.
Alternatively, I may test a similar Umbreon using Yawn or perhaps Charm.
I'm sure Mean Look+Yawn would work fine with Umbreon; it is quite bulky and can probably pull it off fairly well.
Well, Starapter and Gallade made things pretty tough for Umbreon. Even with them gone, there's still plenty of viable fighting types to throw out in front of him. He can do Yawn/Toxic well, but if he does he stats running out of space for important moves like taunt and moon light.
Not to mention that Torterra has great natural defenses that allow it to take unboosted neutral hits easily. A good chunk of the current UU metagame can barely manage 50% against it one-on-one, plus it sets up with ease on some common walls like Registeel and Chansey.
Not that you absolutely need Choice Scarf or priority to deal with it, for the fact that Torterra is not impossible to wall. Any bulky Grass type can take its attacks, with Shaymin being the most common.
It still stands though that Choice Scarf and priority moves are very important and useful in the current metagame, given that it is often implausible to pack a 100% counter for every strong speedy threat you encounter.
Not that you absolutely need Choice Scarf or priority to deal with it, for the fact that Torterra is not impossible to wall. Any bulky Grass type can take its attacks, with Shaymin being the most common.
It still stands though that Choice Scarf and priority moves are very important and useful in the current metagame, given that it is often implausible to pack a 100% counter for every strong speedy threat you encounter.
There are very few things Calm, 252 SpD Chansey can't wall that 252 HP / 252 SpD can.
Shaymin LO Seed Flare With A Drop (though honestly if it drops just switch out):
328 Atk vs 339 Def & 641 HP (120 Base Power): 162 - 192 (25.27% - 29.95%)
328 Atk vs 169 Def & 641 HP (120 Base Power): 325 - 384 (50.70% - 59.91%)
Shaymin's Seed Flare won't 2HKO Chansey regardless of HP investment.
Raikou +6 Thunderbolt
1316 Atk vs 339 Def & 641 HP (95 Base Power): 396 - 466 (61.78% - 72.70%)
2HKOs clean with +6, but if you have Seismic Toss there's no way you're letting a Raikou get that powerful.
1316 Atk vs 339 Def & 704 HP (95 Base Power): 396 - 466 (56.25% - 66.19%)
Still 2HKOed.
If there's a vital attack between Seed Flare and +6 CM from Raikou that Chansey would otherwise wall, tell me about it.
Meanwhile, here's some damage calculations to sway you to use Defense EVs on Chansey (it's the same reason you use them on blissey !_!)
Running 252 Def on Chansey instead of 252 HP more than doubles its ability to take physical hits!
Honchkrow LO Pursuit:
383 Atk vs 46 Def & 704 HP (40 Base Power): 465 - 547 (66.05% - 77.70%)
OHKOs if Blissey switches, 2HKO without a switch guaranteed, generally a shitty situation as if your blissey has taken a hit then Honchkrow comes in and beats it 100% of the time, unless...
383 Atk vs 109 Def & 641 HP (40 Base Power): 198 - 234 (30.89% - 36.51%)
With Defense EVs it's very unlikely to even 3HKO Chansey, never OHKOing a full health Chansey on a switch.
Registeel Iron Head Min Atk:
This is one of the weakest physical STAB attacks in New UU.
186 Atk vs 46 Def & 704 HP (80 Base Power): 348 - 409 (49.43% - 58.10%)
Guaranteed 2HKO with SR.
186 Atk vs 109 Def & 651 HP (80 Base Power): 147 - 174 (22.58% - 26.73%)
Never a 4HKO with SR.
This same logic trickles up to stronger Pokémon and attacks. Do you want to risk being OHKOed because you guessed the opponent's Clefable set incorrectly, thinking it was Wishpass fodder? Should priority moves always force you out? I'm not comfortable with that and I don't think anyone is _that good_ to always avoid virtually every physical attack.
Thus, 252 Def / 252 SpD is always better than 252 HP / 252 SpD, unless you're taking repeated Special hits without healing or get CHed a lot.
Shaymin LO Seed Flare With A Drop (though honestly if it drops just switch out):
328 Atk vs 339 Def & 641 HP (120 Base Power): 162 - 192 (25.27% - 29.95%)
328 Atk vs 169 Def & 641 HP (120 Base Power): 325 - 384 (50.70% - 59.91%)
Shaymin's Seed Flare won't 2HKO Chansey regardless of HP investment.
Raikou +6 Thunderbolt
1316 Atk vs 339 Def & 641 HP (95 Base Power): 396 - 466 (61.78% - 72.70%)
2HKOs clean with +6, but if you have Seismic Toss there's no way you're letting a Raikou get that powerful.
1316 Atk vs 339 Def & 704 HP (95 Base Power): 396 - 466 (56.25% - 66.19%)
Still 2HKOed.
If there's a vital attack between Seed Flare and +6 CM from Raikou that Chansey would otherwise wall, tell me about it.
Meanwhile, here's some damage calculations to sway you to use Defense EVs on Chansey (it's the same reason you use them on blissey !_!)
Running 252 Def on Chansey instead of 252 HP more than doubles its ability to take physical hits!
Honchkrow LO Pursuit:
383 Atk vs 46 Def & 704 HP (40 Base Power): 465 - 547 (66.05% - 77.70%)
OHKOs if Blissey switches, 2HKO without a switch guaranteed, generally a shitty situation as if your blissey has taken a hit then Honchkrow comes in and beats it 100% of the time, unless...
383 Atk vs 109 Def & 641 HP (40 Base Power): 198 - 234 (30.89% - 36.51%)
With Defense EVs it's very unlikely to even 3HKO Chansey, never OHKOing a full health Chansey on a switch.
Registeel Iron Head Min Atk:
This is one of the weakest physical STAB attacks in New UU.
186 Atk vs 46 Def & 704 HP (80 Base Power): 348 - 409 (49.43% - 58.10%)
Guaranteed 2HKO with SR.
186 Atk vs 109 Def & 651 HP (80 Base Power): 147 - 174 (22.58% - 26.73%)
Never a 4HKO with SR.
This same logic trickles up to stronger Pokémon and attacks. Do you want to risk being OHKOed because you guessed the opponent's Clefable set incorrectly, thinking it was Wishpass fodder? Should priority moves always force you out? I'm not comfortable with that and I don't think anyone is _that good_ to always avoid virtually every physical attack.
Thus, 252 Def / 252 SpD is always better than 252 HP / 252 SpD, unless you're taking repeated Special hits without healing or get CHed a lot.
Pokemon is all about percentages, so the absolute stat difference doesn't count for much. The Defense difference between Bold and Calm on max Defense Chansey is ~9.17%, but that's still not far off the maximum 10%.
Still, I prefer Calm on my Chansey as you're going to be taking special attacks far more often, and therefore those crucial 'hang on by a thread' moments occur far more often on the special side. That said, no Defense EVs at all is stupid. There are many situations in practice where such a huge difference counts for an awful lot. Not being 1-2HKO'd by Steelix and Registeel comes to mind in particular, Pokemon that you can wear down with Seismic Toss. But there are also situations where you can't afford to risk letting that lategame physical sweeper set up for free (Feraligatr, Torterra etc), and those Defense EVs give you the assurance of surviving a hit and getting in the T-Wave or Seismic Toss that makes all the difference in the outcome of the match. Simply put, sacrificing more than half your physical bulk is not worth less than 10% difference in special bulk that max HP offers.
EDIT: ^What CIM said also.
There seems to be a misconception, Chansey CAN take some physical hits from medium power pokemon, such as an Earthquake from Steelix.
Imo the best spread is 4 HP/252 Def/252 SpD with a Bold Nature. This is more than enough SDef to wall Raikou, and enough Defense to take SOME physical hits. Chansey is by no means a Physical wall.
I used Calm nature and maximum Defense EVs on my Chansey (which I ended up using because I discovered it was much better as special walling than Regice), but I was sort of clueless about what to do. Hopefully, people will write a Chansey analysis soon, so I can get some good advice, although the statistics have helped me to see what others are doing with their Chansey.
Chansey can't really carry out the same strategies as Blissey can in OU, mainly because its Special Attack is 30 lower than Blissey's (which is annoying, because the rest of its stats are only a tiny bit lower than Blissey's), and the UU environment is so different to the OU environment, hence, Flamethrower and Ice Beam will NOT be good ideas for Chansey.
Also, random thing, UU is the lowest tier Chansey has ever been in! It was OU in RBY (back in the days when it had a higher Special Attack than Mew, Venusaur and Starmie, and Blissey wasn't there to outclass it), BL in GSC and BL in Advance. And many other communities still have Chansey in BL (although their UUs are filled with Pokemon like Meganium, so I guess that's understandable).
Chansey can't really carry out the same strategies as Blissey can in OU, mainly because its Special Attack is 30 lower than Blissey's (which is annoying, because the rest of its stats are only a tiny bit lower than Blissey's), and the UU environment is so different to the OU environment, hence, Flamethrower and Ice Beam will NOT be good ideas for Chansey.
Also, random thing, UU is the lowest tier Chansey has ever been in! It was OU in RBY (back in the days when it had a higher Special Attack than Mew, Venusaur and Starmie, and Blissey wasn't there to outclass it), BL in GSC and BL in Advance. And many other communities still have Chansey in BL (although their UUs are filled with Pokemon like Meganium, so I guess that's understandable).
This is likely the case for a great many of the pokemon now in Smogon's UU, since the "drop everything and make a UU NOT based on old standards" is a historical first for pokemon. I mean, I don't think Arcanine, Blaziken, Rhydon and Raikou ever expected to find themselves in UU.
Overall, I feel Chansey is on the sucky side. It's too vulnerable to Taunt, which renders most of its options useless (Save Seismic Toss), so basically, it becomes set-up bait for any Ghosts with Taunt (aka Spiritomb and Mismagius)
Even otherwise, any decent physical sweeper can set up on it after a Taunt, as well as Substituters, who don't need Taunt to function. Personally, I find Ground-types like Torterra and Steelix laugh in it's face, as it does not carry anything to hit them, in fear of losing other valuable moves.
Edit: It is kind of funny that Pokémon like Chansey are in UU now. You could make the same statement about Claydol, who was OU in Advance, and has been UU for a long time now. Also, Arcanine was UU in RBY, and I think it was in GSC. But they fit in pretty well, so I'm pretty sure they're here to stay for now, save Raikou, who is on the verge of being deported from UU.
Edit 2: I meant to say Claydol was OU, not UU, in Advance. Thanks, HeYsUp.
Even otherwise, any decent physical sweeper can set up on it after a Taunt, as well as Substituters, who don't need Taunt to function. Personally, I find Ground-types like Torterra and Steelix laugh in it's face, as it does not carry anything to hit them, in fear of losing other valuable moves.
Edit: It is kind of funny that Pokémon like Chansey are in UU now. You could make the same statement about Claydol, who was OU in Advance, and has been UU for a long time now. Also, Arcanine was UU in RBY, and I think it was in GSC. But they fit in pretty well, so I'm pretty sure they're here to stay for now, save Raikou, who is on the verge of being deported from UU.
Edit 2: I meant to say Claydol was OU, not UU, in Advance. Thanks, HeYsUp.
Chansey definately is not on the "sucky side" of UU. Chansey is the best Wish Passer and Special Wall in the tier, because of its one weakness to Fighting. The Lack of Aura Sphere in this tier makes Chansey nearly impossible to get passed with Brute Special Attacks.
What you are saying about Chansey, effects nearly all Walls. Registeel has that trouble too, as well as does Blissey and Skarmory in OU. Taunt usually renders some walls useless. So if Mismagius gets in on Chansey (somehow avoiding Twave or Toxic), then Chansey just switches out, to a Registeel or Spiritomb.
The only Special attacker that Chansey does not wall completely every time is Shaymin due to SpD drops by Seed Flare. But still, that's only IF Seed Flare produces the SpD drop.
Specs Blaziken laughs in Chansey's face. Focus Blast always 2HKOs.
Chansey is set-up bait for a lot of physical attackers. Plus, eg, bring in Pursuiting Honchkrow on it and you've got yourself a dead chansey. No one will stay in for fear of Superpower.
That being said, it is useful. But it's no Blissey.
Chansey is set-up bait for a lot of physical attackers. Plus, eg, bring in Pursuiting Honchkrow on it and you've got yourself a dead chansey. No one will stay in for fear of Superpower.
That being said, it is useful. But it's no Blissey.
I understand it's probably the #1 wall specially, but physically, it can't do much, and many STAB physical attacks will rip right through it. Other special walls can do much better than Chansey on the physical side, whereas Chansey can only Wish+Protect Stall, use Thunder Wave or Softboiled, or switch out, and it can't even do that safely. Like Blissey sometimes, it becomes set-up bait too easily, especially for more offensive people like me.
Edit: petrie911, Chansey can be EVed to survive Honchkrow's Pursuit. But it probably won't matter at that point, since even a powerful Special Attack will kill at that point. And Specs Blaziken isn't the most reliable counter-Focus Blast only has a 49% chance of hitting twice. And since it's Specsed, Chansey can easily switch out to a Fighting-resist, if you have one (left).
Chansey is a lot worse than Blissey IMO, since its offense is limited entirely to Seismic Toss. It's still a good Wishpasser (I usually prefer Hypno or Umbreon depending on what I need to wall), and a good Cleric, it's just not that useful outside of stall it seems. Inside stall it's pretty neat though.
I'll put an analysis draft on my blog soon since we have to wait a few more weeks for C&C to let us post them... :( :( :( but basically the only sets are wish cleric charm and maybe cm or counter.
I'll put an analysis draft on my blog soon since we have to wait a few more weeks for C&C to let us post them... :( :( :( but basically the only sets are wish cleric charm and maybe cm or counter.
Thanks for the input. Though, I feel that some people haven't really used Chansey based on what they've posted. First off, Chansey can take a physical hit rather well and people underestimate her massive amount life to compensate for that horrific base stat defense. In fact, if I wasn't using her as a Cleric I would probably run a set like...
Chansey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def/4 Spd/252 SDef
Calm nature
- Seismic Toss
- Wish
- Protect
- Aromatherapy/ Toxic/ Counter
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Maxing Hp on Chansey is a joke. Your better off maxing her defenses to "stabilize" her. Toxic would deal with MissMaggy switch-ins, though it is not a reliable way of dealing with her. Any ways that's the set I use and it works well.
Chansey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def/4 Spd/252 SDef
Calm nature
- Seismic Toss
- Wish
- Protect
- Aromatherapy/ Toxic/ Counter
---
Maxing Hp on Chansey is a joke. Your better off maxing her defenses to "stabilize" her. Toxic would deal with MissMaggy switch-ins, though it is not a reliable way of dealing with her. Any ways that's the set I use and it works well.
I understand Chansey can take quite a few hits on the physical side if need be, but it is outclassed by other special walls in that department. If you can bring in something like Staraptor or Gallade; heck, even stuff like Hariyama, Hitmonlee, and Primeape will tear it up. I'm not saying it's bad. It's very good at doing its job, but if it ever gets tossed into a situation where it has to function differently, it can't do it.
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