Ha ha ha... I'm wondering on that, too. It's frail, but with the ability to trapping somebody else nearly indiscriminately (you'll need to be part flying or levitating to avoid it from the start of his appearance), I suspect he'll go suspect pretty soon, for I worry he'll cause an over-centralization around the UU metagame, just like Garchomp was in OU, and banished to BL.
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New UU List (July 2009)
- Thread starter X-Act
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I've already been using Dugtrio in some of my WiFi UU battles.
If he can switch into a lanturns T-Bolt, it's a gurenteed KO, which is nice.
I can see anice little Mantine + Dugtrio combo happening, using Mantine to bait the electric attack, and then using Dugtrio to trap, outspeed and KO it.
Also switching into a Ninetale's Nasty Plot is risky, but it pays off.
It can also OHKO the standard Rotom set with nigh slash.
Also, which nature would be better on dugtrio?
I'm currently running Adamant, as it still ties with positive base speed 105's
I don't think Dugtrio will last in UU, to be honest.
I mean, the only thing going against it is its' average 80 base attack, but then a LO set really does make up for it.
I'm not seeing Donphan being that much better as a spinner then a Hipmontop.
Hitmontop gets access to Intimidate, which is nice. But the only thing donphan has going for it is its' 120 Base defense and attack. Ice Shard is a 5KO on bulky Altaria, so it's not doing much there.
Knock off is a nice move, if you already have a pokemon with stealth rock, so I suppose that can get annoying (lol Pory2 spec-trick attempt)
Overall, I see the loss of umbreon not that great, Dugtrio to be put into suspect just because it can trap and revenge kill too easy, and Donphan to stay in UU, as it's outshined by others (Plus plain ground typing isn't helping, weak to water, grass and ice moves, all bar ice are really common in UU does hamper it a lot)
If he can switch into a lanturns T-Bolt, it's a gurenteed KO, which is nice.
I can see anice little Mantine + Dugtrio combo happening, using Mantine to bait the electric attack, and then using Dugtrio to trap, outspeed and KO it.
Also switching into a Ninetale's Nasty Plot is risky, but it pays off.
It can also OHKO the standard Rotom set with nigh slash.
Also, which nature would be better on dugtrio?
I'm currently running Adamant, as it still ties with positive base speed 105's
I don't think Dugtrio will last in UU, to be honest.
I mean, the only thing going against it is its' average 80 base attack, but then a LO set really does make up for it.
I'm not seeing Donphan being that much better as a spinner then a Hipmontop.
Hitmontop gets access to Intimidate, which is nice. But the only thing donphan has going for it is its' 120 Base defense and attack. Ice Shard is a 5KO on bulky Altaria, so it's not doing much there.
Knock off is a nice move, if you already have a pokemon with stealth rock, so I suppose that can get annoying (lol Pory2 spec-trick attempt)
Overall, I see the loss of umbreon not that great, Dugtrio to be put into suspect just because it can trap and revenge kill too easy, and Donphan to stay in UU, as it's outshined by others (Plus plain ground typing isn't helping, weak to water, grass and ice moves, all bar ice are really common in UU does hamper it a lot)
You throw off base 120 Atk too casually. Donphan ties with both Blaziken and Hitmonlee in attack and has the strongest EQ in UU besides Rhydon.
And min Atk Donphan's Ice Shard 3KOs max/max+ Altaria (which no one uses) after Stealth rock. But I think using max/max+ donphan is a bit excessive, and in UU it can actually make pretty good use of that great attack stat unlike OU in which it needed to be that bulky. CB Donphan could really be quite good imo since it has great priority.
It's alright, in the games which I've played though it hasn't gotten a solid use.
I mean, Ice Shard is great and all, but as soon as something like a Golduck comes in, it's just going to be swtching out, as it can not take a STABed special attack.
It will do alright, that's for sure, I just don't see its' role as a rapid spinner being any better then Hitmontop.
Hitmontop not only has access to Intimidate, but also has a STABed priority move, Close Combat is also a 2KO on all standard Clefables (not that I'll be seeing any of them on WiFi) and in my opinion is a batter RPer then Donphan.
It's definently going to cause some teams to re-think a bit (get stuffed roserade) but it has some pretty big holes, which I suppose some better players can fill
Gardevoir does a better job sweeping and wall breaking than Espeon due to Espeon's lack of movepool. While base 80 Speed is enough to counter common UU Pokemons.
Just wondering - Magmortar has seen less usage than NUs on the UU ladder(Kangaskhan), and on the standard ladder(Marowak, Medicham, Cradily), so where exactly does Magmortar, or these NUs' tiering stand?
Jynx's better because has more speed, can sleep and Double Stab trading unSTAB'd thundrbolt for STAB'd ice beam and a bit spc atk for more speed.
I'm not sure, but it could be because Magmortar had been getting enough useage to stay UU ever since the ladder started. Isn't the useage based on the last 3 months actually?
Oh, and Dugtrio ruining stall is kinda making me laugh. Shed Shell Chansey anyone? When the metagame changes, you learn to adapt to the problems. Leftover recovery isn't really all that necessary for Chansey when you have an instant recovery move anyway. Much like Skarmory and Shed Shell, Chansey and Shed Shell will become the bog standard once Dugtrio is allowed.
Yeah, looking through the list, the number of special-oriented Pokemon with access to Knock Off is remarkably small. Venusaur and Omastar are the only notable ones, possibly Mesprit. The rest are either somewhat physical or Ghosts, and Chansey won't go near them. I suppose Trick is the only common way around it, but if you manage that then you've kinda already beaten it anyway.
I haven't read the entire thread, but with the addition of Dugtrio and the removal of Umbreon, is anyone else afraid of the impact Mismagius will have on the metagame? Sure there will always be checks, but it was already dangerous to begin with, so it may end up nominated as a suspect.
Mismagius is the most overrated poke in UU. Period.
Balls. How is it overrated?
It has the ability to set up in the face of THE best special wall in the tier, and most bulky waters, and hell, anything specially oriented, and now one of its best counters has been removed. Please tell me what's so overrated about it.
Yeah, I dont know who still gets swept by Mismagius. Every teamusually has like 2 checks and anything not weak to ghost/fighting or a physical attacker with reasonable SpD will probably beat it(my Hitmonlee and Torterra beat Mismagius >.>)
Because everyone thinks it can sweep teams so easily? Not to mention it's incredibly predictable. Just because it can set up on Chansey doesn't mean it's unbeatable. Mismagius set up on anything specially oriented? My 0 SpA Roserade as been able to 1vs1 it. Milotic can beat it too. 25% run Haze btw. And i'd like to see you set up on LOMilotic. Registeel, Drapion, Spiritomb, Azumarill, Steelix, Clefable, Altaria all beat it. And they're all common. People really need to realize that Mismagius can't set up on much. Chansey has less useage then all these pokes, btw.
Doug's stats from the last 3 months mention that Magmortar has been used much more than the Pokemon you mentioned in the UU ladder.
I daresay the reason 25% of Milotic run Haze is Mismagius. And the popularity of the Pokemon you mentioned is no doubt partly influenced by Missy too. If she's performing poorly then it's likely because the opponent is stacking up on checks and counters because they know exactly how dangerous she can be.
Dugtrio's a double edged sword for Missy because:
Adamant 252 CB Duggy Night Slash vs 4/0 Missy = 104%-113%
Jolly 252 CB Duggy Night Slash vs 4/0 Missy = 95%-112%
Adamant 252 LO Duggy Night Slash vs 4/0 Missy = 90%-107%
Jolly 252 LO Duggy Night Slash vs 4/0 Missy = 82% - 97%
(note that Dugtrio can run Adamant and still outrun Timid Missy due to Missy's reliance on the speed IV lowering HP Fight)
So while the addition of Dugtrio has given us a nice way to eliminate Missy's counters it has also given everybody a very capable revenge killer to Mismagius.
You're right, it can't set up on LO Milotic. It just KOes it with Thunderbolt(assuming a Calm Mind on the switch).
What did your Roserade do to it? Leaf Storm? Sleep Powder? Unless its Scarfed, it isn't beating Missy very often, unless Missy just keeps Calm Minding without subbing.
I don't know about Steelix and Azumarill beating it, as it 2HKOes Steelix with HP Fight iirc, and KOes Azumarill with Thunderbolt, while CB Aqua jet does ~47%.
Sure, Registeel, Clefable, and Drapion can beat it, but offensive Drapion and Altaria take a huge hit before killing off Missy.
Some Steelixes pack Crunch for Missy and other floating pokemon wanting to come in on an EQ. Steelix obviously can't switch into her without getting decimated though.
I was just going to use Shed Shell for most of my grounded stall pokes... My thoughts exactly ToF.
Um, no. My Roserade just kept whacking at it with Energy Ball. It eventually died and did only about 40% to my Roserade.
My Steelix was never 2HKO'd, but I ran 252/252 Careful and never regretted it. You don't need Crunch. Just switch into the Sub/CM and Gyro Ball it. Same with things like Yanmega. Gyro Ball is a pretty effective move.
And I thought that the SubCMer can only have two moves? In which case Mismagius opens itself to whatever it can't hit. Good luck getting passed Steelix with Shadow Ball/Thunderbolt.
Who counters Missy with offensive Altaria?
I never said these pokemon were 100% counters, just that /most/ of the time they come out on top, and that Mismagius can't set up on them. These are some of the most common pokemon and Mismagius struggles with most of them.
