Samtendo09
Ability: Light Power
But what‘s stopping you doing an improved recipe of a stale cake?Any kind of cake is still good, you snob.
Same with what is stopping GF from solving most of GSC’s major issues with HGSS.
But what‘s stopping you doing an improved recipe of a stale cake?Any kind of cake is still good, you snob.
I agree on that, nothing is better then have a Mew since the begining of this game. You can catch it before the second gym leader.RBY > FRLG. Because of the bugs.
Yeah go on let's do this thenYES! YES!
HGSS is atrocious!!!
It just doesn't fix any of the major issues Johto had. It doesn't matter how great the presentation is. You can't put a layer of cream on a stale cake and expect it to taste good.
It's frustrating because it would have been so easy to fix the level curve and lengthen the plot had they been willing to diverge from the original GSC plot just a little, but they weren't. They even comment on this in the Game Freak building in Celadon, with Masuda talking about how they don't want to mess with fans' memories. But this didn't stop them introducing the Sevii Islands midway through FRLG's plot. I actually came up with a scenario ages ago that would have easily fixed the level curve while preserving the overall plot structure and it's frustrating that apparently no-one on the dev team thought of anything similar.
- The gatehouse east of Ecruteak is blocked by sightseers trying to get to the Lake of Rage, so the player is forced to take the westward route to Olivine
- When the player arrives in Cianwood, the gatehouse leading to the Safari Zone is still under construction and blocked off
- The pharmacy owner is missing from the shop when the player visits; the only person there is his assistant, who is too inexperienced to know which medicine the player needs for Amphy
- The player therefore has nothing to do except challenge the gym. Once the Stormbadge is acquired, the gatehouse leading to the Safari Zone is completed and the player can pass through it (I'd personally move it to the north of the city to tie into the Suicune/Eusine event but that's another topic)
- The pharmacy owner is at the Safari Zone gates, having come earlier to check it out. The player talks to him and he agrees to return to the pharmacy
- He gives the player the SecretPotion and the player is able to fight Jasmine
- Once the Mineralbadge is acquired, the gatehouse east of Ecruteak clears and the player is able to go to Mahogany Town. All the trainers in this area and the Rocket Hideout get a nice level boost, with Pryce's Pokemon fittingly being elevated to the high 30s/early 40s
This would have allowed Chuck, Jasmine, and Pryce's levels to reflect their positions as fifth, sixth, and seventh gym leaders respectively and stretch the level curve of Johto out a bit to allow for a proper progression. That way Johto's level curve could have been made similar to Hoenn's (Steven and Wallace's aces are at level 58 in RSE). The Kanto portion of the game would need a significant amount of retooling too but that's a whole other discussion.
Man I remember this one town in Kanto (forgot which one) where a guy with his Machoke works on a field to build something. And they didn't have anything built in GSC/HGSS. Such a missed opportunity and a great anectode for Kanto in gen 2I'm also not a big fan of how dead Kanto still is. I know G/S/C were so much worse (Kanto feels like Kanto from the Langoliers universe in those games, whereas it just feels like Kanto after the nuclear apocalypse and accompanying stock market crash in HGSS), but Kanto still feels largely depopulated and soulless compared to the games that actually feature it.
God, I remember that being another thing people were wild with theories about in the leadup to HGSS. People were speculating about a battle facility, a GTS, a new Safari Zone... then Serebii confirmed "the Machop is still building" and it all just died.Man I remember this one town in Kanto (forgot which one) where a guy with his Machoke works on a field to build something. And they didn't have anything built in GSC/HGSS. Such a missed opportunity and a great anectode for Kanto in gen 2
Ironic, isn't it?I actually think that FRLG are the best Pokemon remakes because they're the only ones that actually improve well on what lacked in the original games
Lots of new content, many QoL features, nice details everywhere (like Koga's daughter chilling around)... HGSS didn't improve on any main issues, ORAS also didn't and has less content than Emerald and BDSP is BDSP
Now I get why you would prefer RBY over FRLG, the bugs are very fun and it's very charming, but I still think that FRLG are the only Pokemon remakes that are actually good remakes
The PC in RBY is waaaaaaay worse than almost all battle quicks the first gen games have. Yes, even Wrap.Anyone who says the RBY mechanics make the game worse than later releases are on meth
Probably for the best to just not code Floette Eternal then, since I find that a waste of data space of something we can’t even obtain at all, including Light of Ruin.
A lot of people tend to think that AZ and his Floette are incomplete because AZ's Floette never fell into our hands. It has never made an official release to the player in any mainline Pokemon game. This was despite data for Floette-Eternal existing throughout all of the 3DS titles, Eternal Floette receiving a dex entry for USUM, and it having a unique signature move with visible updates in USUM. I'm here to claim that Gamefreak's failure to release AZ's Eternal Floette was a great thing that shows Gamefreak caring about the Pokemon lore at least somewhat.
Let me explain:
AZ was gifted a Floette from his mother when he was young. He loved this Floette very much and wanted to cherish it for the rest of his life. As far as we know, there was never any disconnection between AZ and his Floette during this time period. Unfortunately Kalos was in a war and Floette was forcibly taken by AZ's own soldiers to fight off in it. In the matter of years, AZ's Floette had died in that war. AZ was immensely overwhelmed with grief. He held upmost passion and love for the Pokemon while it was alive. He was willing to do anything he could just to be with it again... From there, he had an idea. AZ built a machine and used special stones around him to steal the life energy of countless Pokemon surrounding it. That load of life energy was then used to power-up the machine and restore Floette back to life. The exposure to excess life energy in the process made AZ and his undead Floette immortal. AZ was relieved of the revival, but the grief he felt for his most beloved Pokemon did not end. He wanted vengeance on all the people and Pokemon responsible for Floette's death. AZ transformed the machine into a weapon and used the remaining life energy to fire off a large beam into the world, effectively ending the war.
AZ's Floette must have figured out that the lives of many Pokemon had to be taken in order for its own life to be restored. It felt disgusted by how AZ would mistreat so many Pokemon like this, even if it were for the sake of itself. As a result, Floette made the decision to leave AZ and never return until the very day AZ learned to care for Pokemon as a whole again.
AZ immediately felt longing regret for firing his weapon and had it buried with the hopes that nobody would ever try to use it again. He then went on a 3000-year journey in search for the lost Floette. Based on AZ's character, Bulbapedia believes he was based off the Wandering Jew legend. If we take from this, we can presume that AZ primarily spent the next 3000 years wandering around the world, searching anywhere for his Floette. In XY, that Floette was mostly all he could ever think about, and he was still going after all of these years. He was immensely dedicated to searching for the beloved Floette he revived, but he was also a mere shell of a man by this point. AZ looks and acts as if like he gave up on everything in life a while back and is just wallowing about in pure misery. All he wanted in life was that Floette back. No other Floette could he accept. Nothing more off life he could accept. Just that one single Floette. Maybe some day... AZ could find it again.
The events of XY were pretty strange for AZ's life. Apparently this time there exists a person who acknowledges the weapon and has the scientific tools he needs to gather resources for its reawakening. This person is the long descendent of AZ's brother, who helped AZ build the weapon 3000 back. They were given the name Lysandre. Lysandre was about to force AZ to witness events he wished would never reoccur, and he was left wandering helplessly until the player and their group of friends stopped them. It wasn't just that they stopped Lysandre, but that they used special bonds they've made with their own Pokemon through battle in order to do so. AZ watched to realize how five random kids used their committed ties to various Pokemon in order to accomplish saving the world. AZ soon learned that these kids would call themselves Pokemon Trainers and the source of their strong bonds were battles their Pokemon would participate with them in. He also learned that these Pokemon would be placed in Poke Balls whenever they were not being used and that those Poke Balls were their home. I speculate that sometime after the event of XY's climax, AZ went out to find three distinct Pokemon and catch them. He would then befriend those Pokemon all the way and possibly even train them for battle. By the time he was done, the player already became Champion of Kalos.
A ceremony was held for you and your friends for saving the entire world. In that ceremony, AZ himself arrived, and he challenged you to a battle. This was the first Pokemon battle he has ever had against a trainer. He wants to know what a Pokemon Trainer is and how they work. He has three Pokemon on his team, all knowing the move Return, to indicate high-friendship and AZ's complete change in character. Through battle, the player shows him how being a Pokemon trainer works, and AZ finally starts caring for Pokemon as a whole again. He feels completely relieved from his grief, and the part of him that fired the ultimate weapon in the first place. From there, his Floette made a very sudden return, for reasons unexplained through dialogue but visually pointed out in blatant levels. All Floette wanted was for AZ to care for Pokemon, not just itself. They were both very happily reunited and the plot of XY ends here.
Why did I write all of this?
I need to greatly emphasize that the level of dedication this man had for his Floette is unparalleled and unmatched by ANY other we have seen in the entire series. AZ's product even accidentally created Mega Evolution, a mechanic that emphasizes even further on having significant ties to Pokemon. Eternal Floette to fall into our hands after this entire event ruins the entire point of AZ's redemption and the value of AZ's bond with his Floette. It would have massively disrespected the entire Kalos lore and given a middle finger to all of its most important aspects. AZ was essentially a folklore that gave others an example of what to and not to do with Pokemon, and we can see him as a good role model for this.
The only reason we want this Pokemon is because it's a unique forme of a good design that was left in the game's data. There's not even a reason for us to have it. Xerneas overshadows Eternal Floette in many ways, Magearna-Original was created as a piece directly inspired by Kalos lore, and Florges is a viable evolution of regular Floette with BST scaled specifically to be higher than Eternal Floette's. Eternal Floette's signature move is also incredibly risky and would lead it to being meh in competitive compared to Florges.
I get we're greedy and want everything we possibly could for ourselves when it comes to Pokemon, even when there's no real reason or merit to having something, but us obtaining this Floette devalues the entire lore behind Kalos and redemptions AZ made in order to reunite with his beloved. It's like ripping Cynthia from her Garchomp for no reason, but millions of times worse. We haven't truly done anything to warrant breaking the connection between him and his Floette, nor have we made any specific bonds with said Floette. Floette still deeply cared for AZ based on the timing of its return, it just wanted to see him change back into his old, caring self.
It's not Pokemon Home's code despite the all remaining Floette forms being in, so it might not be in the code for future games.Probably for the best to just not code Floette Eternal then, since I find that a waste of data space of something we can’t even obtain at all, including Light of Ruin.
Now that you said it though, the only way we could plausibly obtain Eternal Floette is from another dimension where AZ ended up being killed - or permanently missing, out of that world - and it is unable to find their master since then. Even then, it might cause unfortunate implications if not done carefully, but at least the original Kalos’ own lore remained intact.
OopsEternal Floette to fall into our hands after this entire event ruins the entire point of AZ's redemption and the value of AZ's bond with his Floette. It would have massively disrespected the entire Kalos lore and given a middle finger to all of its most important aspects.
Wrap be a competitive move is one of the things make me like to play gen1 sometimes.Yes, even Wrap.
You raise some really excellent lore reasons for why Eternal Floette should remain unreleased, but mechanically, it wouldn't be as redundant as you think. Its stat spread is pretty different from Florges, with higher Special Attack and much higher Speed, which combined with Light of Ruin's incredible power would have led it to play significantly differently from the more defensive Florges. Also, saying a Pokemon is overshadowed by Magearna and Xerneas is basically a non-statement.There's not even a reason for us to have it. Xerneas overshadows Eternal Floette in many ways, Magearna-Original was created as a piece directly inspired by Kalos lore, and Florges is a viable evolution of regular Floette with BST scaled specifically to be higher than Eternal Floette's. Eternal Floette's signature move is also incredibly risky and would lead it to being meh in competitive compared to Florges.
The other option(frankly an insane one) would be to make Johto's level curve 5-60 as normal, then do the same for Kanto's level curve. Start with lvl 10 trainers in Vermillion and go up from there. The player CAN choose to steamroll the entire region with their E4 team, or can breed up a new team and play through normally(with TMs and lategame Johto mons). Yes, development realities mean it won't be as balanced as normal(ha), and fewer random trainers mean likely more grinding, but it would be a cathartic "you're awesome" moment for the kiddies while also being a challenge mode for veterans.The most glaring issue HGSS has in my opinion is the level curve and how atrociously slow it is. We can thank Kanto's presence in these games for that, instead of extending the level curve into the 60s, 70s, and 80s to accommodate Kanto, they stretched a similar level curve to every other game across two entire regions.
Maybe make Eternal Flower Floette something like Kenya the Spearow: a Pokémon you are supposed to give to another person.Probably for the best to just not code Floette Eternal then, since I find that a waste of data space of something we can’t even obtain at all, including Light of Ruin.
Now that you said it though, the only way we could plausibly obtain Eternal Floette is from another dimension where AZ ended up being killed - or permanently missing, out of that world - and it is unable to find their master since then. Even then, it might cause unfortunate implications if not done carefully, but at least the original Kalos’ own lore remained intact.
I think it's important to find a middle ground. It's like design vs function. Part of any art is to find balance between the elements of your pieceI said it before and I will say it again: plot must bend to gameplay, always. This is a game. If you want plot to be the focus read a book or watch a movie.
I mean, initially, video games didn't had a plot. What mattered was the gameplay. It's only when games like RPGs started to arrive that developers started to develop scenarios in their games.I think it's important to find a middle ground. It's like design vs function. Part of any art is to find balance between the elements of your piece
My favorite game, Undertale, is a masterpiece of combining gameplay and plot. If the plot just bent to the gameplay or if the gameplay just bent to the plot, it wouldn't be half as good. But by having a perfect middle ground, it's most defining features are created
I think it depends entirely on the gameI mean, initially, video games didn't had a plot. What mattered was the gameplay. It's only when games like RPGs started to arrive that developers started to develop scenarios in their games.
I personally give little importance to the plot because, since a game can exist without (just look at arcade games or racing games), I consider it as a "little extra" that should be highlighted if it's good but shouldn't matter that much, or at least, less than the gameplay. Of course, people are more regarding toward the plot with RPGs due to their narrative nature but, I have to agree with ZettaiRyouiki, it must bend the gameplay.
Are we thinking of the same game? Because my thoughts on Undertale is that the story gets in the way of having good gameplay to such a degree that I've been turned off by anything else the developer produces (as if I needed more reason to be hesitant about current mainline pokemon games). I only recently posted in the general videogame thread about a game with barely any plot doing a much more reasonable job of having endings tied to playstyles than more serious games, and Undertale was at the forefront of my mind while writing that.I think it's important to find a middle ground. It's like design vs function. Part of any art is to find balance between the elements of your piece
My favorite game, Undertale, is a masterpiece of combining gameplay and plot. If the plot just bent to the gameplay or if the gameplay just bent to the plot, it wouldn't be half as good. But by having a perfect middle ground, it's most defining features are created
That's a pretty rare opinion tbh. The idea of having storytelling during fights and throughout the gameplay is a huge plus for Undertale for most people. Like the whole puzzles in Snowdin showing Papyrus's character, Flowey breaking the rules of the game, attack strength and patterns often depending on your own actions... I can't think of a single game that managed to incorporate it's message and mechanics as good into both gameplay and story whilst having these influence one another as Undertale didAre we thinking of the same game? Because my thoughts on Undertale is that the story gets in the way of having good gameplay to such a degree that I've been turned off by anything else the developer produces (as if I needed more reason to be hesitant about current mainline pokemon games). I only recently posted in the general videogame thread about a game with barely any plot doing a much more reasonable job of having endings tied to playstyles than more serious games, and Undertale was at the forefront of my mind while writing that.
I agree on that, which is actually also one of the reasons why I love undsrtaleBalance requires knowing where the fulcrum is. You cannot assume it is in the center.