No one sold you out I just had enough alias info that once PBlade got a positive enemy check only you could be CuckWolf
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Big Wayne Bradiest Mafia - Game Over - 13 Winners
- Thread starter Ampharos
- Start date
My D.Va enemy claim though. I was surprised everyone seemed to buy it for a few cycles
I'll write some post game stuff as soon as I get home, there's some role design stuff I wanna talk about
Any feedback on general game layout is necessary because this definitely isn't the last FFA I'm ever gonna make and I'm still trying to perfect the formula (13/36 winners is probably a bit much)
Any feedback on general game layout is necessary because this definitely isn't the last FFA I'm ever gonna make and I'm still trying to perfect the formula (13/36 winners is probably a bit much)
I will say that Lt. Surge was probably broken and Morphling/Bob combo was 100% broken so thank god neither really ever came into play
I'd also like to apologize for the Dungeon Man and Scrappy Doo roles, that was just mean
Mako was definitely my favorite role flavorwise lol
I'd also like to apologize for the Dungeon Man and Scrappy Doo roles, that was just mean
Mako was definitely my favorite role flavorwise lol
Everyone knew by the end. I was just commenting on the fact that I got a few cycles out of it
That's the best feeling lel
My little charade was made by this one message from very Pink pancakes
D.va is attention wolf ! Get him !
According to the sheet it was everyone's +2
Andy Snype
Mr. Music
my feedback is to never put in any weeb roles for the duration of Circus Maximus. This game has had enough for this forum's lifespan.
No but I mean it seems like all the Hookers were sufficiently spread but outside of that it didn't really go further with seeing what role combos were likely to ally together.
And just for you Snype I'm gonna make Weeb Mafia someday.
POSTGAME
Or at least my say of it
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lZCpzHjixDl9kJNQ0CJ_Qc3mBhl4M0doJpL-IJQ8jJg/edit?usp=sharing
sheet
Walrein wanted a cohost for the next game in his Brady series (name inspired by me thx) since it would be a big and I offered to as I don't particularly enjoy playing FFAs. Maybe I would if I played with UncleSam <3 Anyway I intended to let him do the heavy lifting in designing so to speak since this is more his series and he is the main host.
A couple of the role names were mine, UncleSam's First Sexual Partner and Da Letter El's Boyfriend at the least. I might say Sheldon Cooper was also mine? But I feel like others I would've put in like Captain Kirk and Scrappy Doo were actually Walrein's. Maybe he remembers what other ones I added. I don't know if MR SANDSMAN and FMax were me or his tribute to storied Smogon mafia traditions TM. Anyway, he picked most of the role names from a wide variety of source materials. Including Wayne Brady's sister Jan Brady who was apparently dumped in a bucket of bleach repeatedly as a child.
We designed the game in bursts, he'd get hyphy and I'd say aite leggo and then we'd complete said task and bounce out again. I think it was his idea to have the aliases be Wolfs and we originally came up with two different lists and he went with his... After a good deal of Skype convos and new LightWolf memes I deemed his aliases too gd boring and changed a good portion of them into funnier ones or fresher memes. Gotta stay spicy. I think Light, Dark, Top and Bottom were holdovers of the original names. Stuff like QueenWolf was genuinely supposed to be a meme (Sam and billy hate queens in chess) but I think it may have been too insular and thus wasn't a memorable alias to nametarget.
I think Walrein wanted me to do more of the role designing but a combination of laziness, unfamiliarity with solid FFA balancing for HP and such and feeling like he'd probably change things anyway let me sit back while he did all the hard work x) I did check stuff but I think I was not careful enough in my assessments of the roles and HP. I have some specific examples of cancer roles I'll give later.
He wrote the Role PMs, I made the avatars. Everyone liked the latter better let's be real. Game went live. Also thanks to jumpluff for getting the forum up for yet another game. Though I did discover some interesting censors like dominatrix and gangbang due to some of the uh kinkier LightWolf aliases and SamanthaWolf's overkilled death.
We took requests and tried to meet them but Walrein did the player assigning... I think I should have given this a proper once over honestly, I knew Sam wanted to work with Blazade for instance and Walrein hadn't met that and I think Sam may have had one too many good, active allies to work with.
One regret is how few defensive roles there were in the game, I think it really limits the number of plays that can be made to not have a healer or protector especially because there are so many possible targets and sources of damage that I don't think defensive roles would be particularly OP. Walrein wanted a fast-paced carnage game and I suppose ending on what would've been C9 is about right but eh I think going to C11 and having some defensive roles that didn't force you to be balls to the wall all the time might've been better.
Best allies were +/-2 from you, however other multiples of 2 would often result in a good ally as well. Walrein didn't notice that rssp1 and elcheeso were both hookers who could easily work together and I was perpetually confused by how he has listed/displayed WCs on the sheet. Which, by the way, had several errors. One of which made it into the game. I feel the need to apologize if one of us, likely me, ever gave an inaccurate enemy check based on the sheet WC page itself. How Sam displayed it was both a lot easier for me to understand/read and accurate rofl. I had Sam, aska and acidphoenix all PM me if QueenWolf had an error in her WC because Sam had it down better than Walrein rofl and he had written the wrong enemy in acid's PM. Didn't impact much.
VPP's role was retarded and I am really surprised it lost. For some reason I can only explain as "Walrein is bad at math" he decided to have odd attacks (3 damage) round down to 1 damage onto VPP and up to 2 reflected onto the dealer... you'd suicide before you killed VPP solo. Stupid, stupid role I didn't realize he was having work that way until after the game began. Its martyr ability was rightfully never used once and I have no clue why Walrein even put in a martyr ability to a game with no SG/BG. What a waste lol.
I genuinely believe Walrein host errored how Agape's role was supposed to work. The role PM specifies those who attack him will be hooked the next night however Walrein recorded literally anyone who targeted 2FreezerWolf as hooked the next night. billy giving him a healing burger got hooked.. the heck? The intent of the role was inconsistent between the sheet and the actual PM and if I had known Walrein was going to do Everything Hooks I would have stopped that, I think passively hooking people who actually do damage to him is okay but anyone who even enemy checks him is full stupid.
A lot of interesting roles like Memoric's and shade's and Vanillish Wafer's went to waste, either through idling or early death, and never got to do cool things/interactions. The heck was Whydon/internet's? Rofl. There were too many roles itg whose only true viable option to kill was the lynch two cycles in a row. For some reason Walrein forsook targeting, active protective roles for these passively unkillable BS roles and I would absolutely not replicate this in any future FFA. I don't think VPP/Agape/internet's roles were good designs at all. Morphling however is a good example of a role that can be turned defensive by shifting all attack to HP or hyper offensive by dropping to 6HP or less all into attack. This role required conscious, active play instead of sit around with your dick in your hand until someone targets you.
I talked to UncleSam the most this game and I don't have my logs with other players on me atm, I'll add in some good logs when I'm home, so the analysis of play is mainly through his lens. He found his best allies pretty quickly and forged a core group of himself, penguin344, Paperblade and rssp1 who were his best allies and an ally's best ally. elcheeso fit in on the outskirts as someone who shared a lot of enemies with this main core and people like askaninjask were very easy for Sam to work with as well. In the case of zorbees and similar, he felt they could have an understanding to stay out of each others' way if they didn't have any enemies in common to cooperate on eliminating.
He talked to a lot of people and figured out the entire WC circle very early on. I don't think anyone can deny that by man hours and effort put into the game it was a well deserved win. The people with WCs conducive to his own were thus brought along for the ride like idling cuck alias GirthWolf. I know he felt bad he couldn't work with a lot of people like Reinfleche who wound up as an enemy, so, blame Walrein!!
On the flip side, the D.vengers came to life, I think under threat of the supposed superteam. There was, of course, no superteam as Sam had a small core of allies and then a lot of people he could cooperate and win with, but it was a noble effort nonetheless. Dullagamur was the only D.venger to win as the rest were either a biiit too idle, enemies with Sam, or enemies of someone Sam was working with more and thus not someone he bothered to keep alive. For some reason they kept thinking there was a stab/info leak in their ranks but sleep safely knowing no D.venger ever turned heel. Sam and his allies just figured everything out on their own. If it's better to lose to an outplay than a backstab.
King made some Interesting plays. He tried to leak all he could and generally cause mayhem by revealing his alias C1 I think. rofl. He started the superteam rumor or at least propagated it. Then he survived with no HP for longer than he should have because people kept failing to finish someone off. I guess they assumed another enemy of the weak alias would do it. elcheeso lived and won with 1HP after taking 7 of his 8 C2 and not knowing about it due to a results snatch.
When SNUFFWolf was dying was around when Ullar made some Obvious Crush comments on IRC and Sam kept going "I hope that's Ullar and he's dead and I crushed him" because boys will be territorial boys <3
I will let players discuss their own strategies, approaches and interactions to the game. I think 13/36 winners is on the one hand 33% of the game which if it's a mafia team is about right size wise, on the other a lot of people and perhaps primarily too centered around being able to work with the biggest tryhard (Sam) who also had two hookers and Agape's hooks on his side.
This game had alright activity I think, there were a few consistent idlers of course but they only hurt themselves outside of removing a valuable ally role. Haruno won by idling and never being targeted, the ONLY action he ever sent was on Smogon, PMed to me, Walrein and the real billymills rofl. We then subbed billy in for him later and he proceeded to win, he was in a pretty good position for it especially after the cycle 14 people left the game.
I think it had some imperfect designs that could be improved upon in future FFAs. I also think too many roles were one dimensional and people only had one thing to do - no variety of roles to alternate between or choose from. And of course some PJSalt inducing OP roles you all can "Walrein why" about.
Thanks to everyone for playing, hope you enjoyed the game, and congrats to the winners. Unfortunate only one of the D.vengers could pull it off but Sam's alliance was extremely active and involved so I think they had deserved wins, they were definitely trying hard and actively participating. Of course some who lost were also very involved, just on the wrong ends of WCs.
And DLE was punished for stabbing Sam in Bradier. The balance is restored now.
I will be hosting Wayne Bradierest with UncleSam next which is another FFA, Walrein will be designing another in the series as well I assume and I will drop a hot village vs mafia on yall at some point soon enough.
Or at least my say of it
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lZCpzHjixDl9kJNQ0CJ_Qc3mBhl4M0doJpL-IJQ8jJg/edit?usp=sharing
sheet
Walrein wanted a cohost for the next game in his Brady series (name inspired by me thx) since it would be a big and I offered to as I don't particularly enjoy playing FFAs. Maybe I would if I played with UncleSam <3 Anyway I intended to let him do the heavy lifting in designing so to speak since this is more his series and he is the main host.
A couple of the role names were mine, UncleSam's First Sexual Partner and Da Letter El's Boyfriend at the least. I might say Sheldon Cooper was also mine? But I feel like others I would've put in like Captain Kirk and Scrappy Doo were actually Walrein's. Maybe he remembers what other ones I added. I don't know if MR SANDSMAN and FMax were me or his tribute to storied Smogon mafia traditions TM. Anyway, he picked most of the role names from a wide variety of source materials. Including Wayne Brady's sister Jan Brady who was apparently dumped in a bucket of bleach repeatedly as a child.
We designed the game in bursts, he'd get hyphy and I'd say aite leggo and then we'd complete said task and bounce out again. I think it was his idea to have the aliases be Wolfs and we originally came up with two different lists and he went with his... After a good deal of Skype convos and new LightWolf memes I deemed his aliases too gd boring and changed a good portion of them into funnier ones or fresher memes. Gotta stay spicy. I think Light, Dark, Top and Bottom were holdovers of the original names. Stuff like QueenWolf was genuinely supposed to be a meme (Sam and billy hate queens in chess) but I think it may have been too insular and thus wasn't a memorable alias to nametarget.
I think Walrein wanted me to do more of the role designing but a combination of laziness, unfamiliarity with solid FFA balancing for HP and such and feeling like he'd probably change things anyway let me sit back while he did all the hard work x) I did check stuff but I think I was not careful enough in my assessments of the roles and HP. I have some specific examples of cancer roles I'll give later.
He wrote the Role PMs, I made the avatars. Everyone liked the latter better let's be real. Game went live. Also thanks to jumpluff for getting the forum up for yet another game. Though I did discover some interesting censors like dominatrix and gangbang due to some of the uh kinkier LightWolf aliases and SamanthaWolf's overkilled death.
We took requests and tried to meet them but Walrein did the player assigning... I think I should have given this a proper once over honestly, I knew Sam wanted to work with Blazade for instance and Walrein hadn't met that and I think Sam may have had one too many good, active allies to work with.
One regret is how few defensive roles there were in the game, I think it really limits the number of plays that can be made to not have a healer or protector especially because there are so many possible targets and sources of damage that I don't think defensive roles would be particularly OP. Walrein wanted a fast-paced carnage game and I suppose ending on what would've been C9 is about right but eh I think going to C11 and having some defensive roles that didn't force you to be balls to the wall all the time might've been better.
Best allies were +/-2 from you, however other multiples of 2 would often result in a good ally as well. Walrein didn't notice that rssp1 and elcheeso were both hookers who could easily work together and I was perpetually confused by how he has listed/displayed WCs on the sheet. Which, by the way, had several errors. One of which made it into the game. I feel the need to apologize if one of us, likely me, ever gave an inaccurate enemy check based on the sheet WC page itself. How Sam displayed it was both a lot easier for me to understand/read and accurate rofl. I had Sam, aska and acidphoenix all PM me if QueenWolf had an error in her WC because Sam had it down better than Walrein rofl and he had written the wrong enemy in acid's PM. Didn't impact much.
VPP's role was retarded and I am really surprised it lost. For some reason I can only explain as "Walrein is bad at math" he decided to have odd attacks (3 damage) round down to 1 damage onto VPP and up to 2 reflected onto the dealer... you'd suicide before you killed VPP solo. Stupid, stupid role I didn't realize he was having work that way until after the game began. Its martyr ability was rightfully never used once and I have no clue why Walrein even put in a martyr ability to a game with no SG/BG. What a waste lol.
I genuinely believe Walrein host errored how Agape's role was supposed to work. The role PM specifies those who attack him will be hooked the next night however Walrein recorded literally anyone who targeted 2FreezerWolf as hooked the next night. billy giving him a healing burger got hooked.. the heck? The intent of the role was inconsistent between the sheet and the actual PM and if I had known Walrein was going to do Everything Hooks I would have stopped that, I think passively hooking people who actually do damage to him is okay but anyone who even enemy checks him is full stupid.
A lot of interesting roles like Memoric's and shade's and Vanillish Wafer's went to waste, either through idling or early death, and never got to do cool things/interactions. The heck was Whydon/internet's? Rofl. There were too many roles itg whose only true viable option to kill was the lynch two cycles in a row. For some reason Walrein forsook targeting, active protective roles for these passively unkillable BS roles and I would absolutely not replicate this in any future FFA. I don't think VPP/Agape/internet's roles were good designs at all. Morphling however is a good example of a role that can be turned defensive by shifting all attack to HP or hyper offensive by dropping to 6HP or less all into attack. This role required conscious, active play instead of sit around with your dick in your hand until someone targets you.
I talked to UncleSam the most this game and I don't have my logs with other players on me atm, I'll add in some good logs when I'm home, so the analysis of play is mainly through his lens. He found his best allies pretty quickly and forged a core group of himself, penguin344, Paperblade and rssp1 who were his best allies and an ally's best ally. elcheeso fit in on the outskirts as someone who shared a lot of enemies with this main core and people like askaninjask were very easy for Sam to work with as well. In the case of zorbees and similar, he felt they could have an understanding to stay out of each others' way if they didn't have any enemies in common to cooperate on eliminating.
He talked to a lot of people and figured out the entire WC circle very early on. I don't think anyone can deny that by man hours and effort put into the game it was a well deserved win. The people with WCs conducive to his own were thus brought along for the ride like idling cuck alias GirthWolf. I know he felt bad he couldn't work with a lot of people like Reinfleche who wound up as an enemy, so, blame Walrein!!
On the flip side, the D.vengers came to life, I think under threat of the supposed superteam. There was, of course, no superteam as Sam had a small core of allies and then a lot of people he could cooperate and win with, but it was a noble effort nonetheless. Dullagamur was the only D.venger to win as the rest were either a biiit too idle, enemies with Sam, or enemies of someone Sam was working with more and thus not someone he bothered to keep alive. For some reason they kept thinking there was a stab/info leak in their ranks but sleep safely knowing no D.venger ever turned heel. Sam and his allies just figured everything out on their own. If it's better to lose to an outplay than a backstab.
King made some Interesting plays. He tried to leak all he could and generally cause mayhem by revealing his alias C1 I think. rofl. He started the superteam rumor or at least propagated it. Then he survived with no HP for longer than he should have because people kept failing to finish someone off. I guess they assumed another enemy of the weak alias would do it. elcheeso lived and won with 1HP after taking 7 of his 8 C2 and not knowing about it due to a results snatch.
When SNUFFWolf was dying was around when Ullar made some Obvious Crush comments on IRC and Sam kept going "I hope that's Ullar and he's dead and I crushed him" because boys will be territorial boys <3
I will let players discuss their own strategies, approaches and interactions to the game. I think 13/36 winners is on the one hand 33% of the game which if it's a mafia team is about right size wise, on the other a lot of people and perhaps primarily too centered around being able to work with the biggest tryhard (Sam) who also had two hookers and Agape's hooks on his side.
This game had alright activity I think, there were a few consistent idlers of course but they only hurt themselves outside of removing a valuable ally role. Haruno won by idling and never being targeted, the ONLY action he ever sent was on Smogon, PMed to me, Walrein and the real billymills rofl. We then subbed billy in for him later and he proceeded to win, he was in a pretty good position for it especially after the cycle 14 people left the game.
I think it had some imperfect designs that could be improved upon in future FFAs. I also think too many roles were one dimensional and people only had one thing to do - no variety of roles to alternate between or choose from. And of course some PJSalt inducing OP roles you all can "Walrein why" about.
Thanks to everyone for playing, hope you enjoyed the game, and congrats to the winners. Unfortunate only one of the D.vengers could pull it off but Sam's alliance was extremely active and involved so I think they had deserved wins, they were definitely trying hard and actively participating. Of course some who lost were also very involved, just on the wrong ends of WCs.
And DLE was punished for stabbing Sam in Bradier. The balance is restored now.
I will be hosting Wayne Bradierest with UncleSam next which is another FFA, Walrein will be designing another in the series as well I assume and I will drop a hot village vs mafia on yall at some point soon enough.
i would just like to say that the role balance seemed really odd in this game, i'm not sure if it was balanced by all of the "weaker" roles needing each other dead, and same with stronger, but i doubt that was the case. for example, i felt like my role was very weak. even if i gave an item to an enemy of mine every cycle, they could then give it to one of their enemies, which probably doesn't benefit me at all. It is also hard to fake my role because once someone gets the SANDS, they will probably know it comes from MR. SANDSMAN. Compare to someone like Apollo Justice who could do a shitload of different stuff, or any of the self protective roles, or any damage increasing role like vonfiedler's or askas (i think, might remember wrong). I'm not really complaining because I didn't really care about this game, and I know that more than just what role you get affects the outcome of the game.
Some reasons I don't like these types of games:
Some reasons I don't like these types of games:
- Getting random targeted early in a FFA game is the worst feeling in the world. In a team game, it still sucks, but at least your team can go on to win. You at least have a rooting interest to help you spectate the game after you died. If you are like StevenSnype and die c1 in this game, do you really care who wins? I think future FFA games might want some type of system where you need to PM the host with information about your target, and your attacks only succeed if the information is correct.
- The game feels very basic in the wrong way in my opinion. I don't really like the information trading in this type of game because it is so boring and basic. In a game like Pokemon TCG Mafia or Fire Emblem 2 Mafia, you would have to talk to people to trade items, which I felt was a nice kickstart to the information trading. I think it was somewhat flawed in those cases too (the fact that the groups in Pokemon TCG Mafia were based on how much you evolve might've made it too easy to figure out people's groups based on their trade talks)
- The games blend together imo. We've had at least 5 of these types of FFAs and I can barely remember which is which. I can get that some people haven't played the previous ones or want to play it again, but playing what feels like the same mafia several times is not that enjoyable to me.
No and I hope/encourage people to share their sheets if they made them, I think it's very interesting to compare how much info people gained or were given or sussed out by guessing.
Post all sheets u have made!!
ariariadne
formerly Reinfleche
My role was pretty good I just had the unfortunate fate of being Sam's enemy, who I really wanted to try and win with after the tragic end of Wayne Bradier. Then I got enemy checked immediately and from there I don't think I could have realistically done much about it at all, but that's just how things go sometimes. I was less active than I would have liked to be but I do not feel very bad about it because there was not very much I could have done to win or help anyone else. Congrats to Sam he played well and for Dulla for repping the D.vengers
My sheet sucked ass, I was just going to pony off of the Dvenger one but twin (?) finished it after I died
My sheet sucked ass, I was just going to pony off of the Dvenger one but twin (?) finished it after I died