Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

[SDK03]

Since everyone’s on the topic of unbanning the brokens, maybe Genesect could be dropped?

Normally I’d say this as shitposting and joking around, but according to Home movepool leaks the thing loses literally all of its Speed-boosting, Speed-control and priority options (Rock Polish, Shift Gear and Extreme Speed) and even loses Blaze Kick. Seems like it has a chance of not being broken this time around…

We can fix them, just let Genesect back in it won’t ruin the tier with the same cracked Choice Scarf and Specs sets it usually does trust me.

 

[Soiramio3000]

we finally know that the release date of the indigo disc is going to be december 14th, I can't wait for this.
I wish they gave us more info on the new tera type.

I highly doubt if emboar is going to have anything close to an OU niche, this pokemon is going to be a loser his hole life.
his only hope is if he gets a paradox/regional form.

I hope the move scorching sands will return.
it is weird that it wasn't included on the first dlc.

 

[Floatstonemafia]

Genesect is nearly always close enough to not getting banned that it universally gets a chance before kicking the tier in the dick on it's way out the door, so not sure why it wouldn't get a chance this time.

Genesect has always sat perfectly on the line of 'too good for OU, not anywhere near usable in ubers'. It's just close enough to being fine in OU that the council touches the flame every time.

 

[ayevon]

Presented without comment

| 3 | Gliscor | 47 | 31.33% | 46.81% |
| 8 | Sneasler | 37 | 24.67% | 64.86% |
| 21 | Ribombee | 14 | 9.33% | 64.29% |

 

[pika pal]

What is Tera Blast is banned? Regieleki would for sure be fine, and Volcarona and Espathra would more than likely be fine without Tera Blast.
Also I would like to point out Espathra was banned when Shed Tail was still legal, and Shed Tail was one of the biggest reasons why it was broken, so its very much likely to be fine without Tera Blast. Just thought I mention that since no one else does.

I disagree on Espathra. One of the two most common Tera Types I remember it running was Fairy to break Dark types, and it has Dazzling Gleam to get a STAB move off the type without Tera Blast being useless before Tera. Tera Fire sets maybe care more, but even just the one set was already obnoxious for this thing. I don't trust the one-Mon Baton Chain to be looked at in a tier that includes Terastalization itself.

 

[RaikouLover]

What even is the balance people are seeking? Less offense? Shit nearly EVERY ban was of a strong ass offensive threat, and yet we are no closer to this fountain of youth. Hell, the meta is so tuned to unga bunga (best bunga by far) that stall is a pipedream incorporating balance into its very mons, because fuck blissey is dead and clefable is having to put in work as a boltbeam machine.

I beseech thee, what is "balance" to you?

Balance means competitive balance. All team styles and strategies can be reasonably successful. Skill is well represented. Coin flips and luck are kept to circumstantial risk vs. reward, as opposed to luck based strategy. Strong mons have checks but are still strong. And a balanced generational gimmick actually encourages these concepts instead of shits on them.

 

[Cuddly]

Tera is in trouble and action is coming. We can ban 50 Pokémon and “balance” will still remain elusive. The mechanic is uncompetitive.

You know, people say if we don’t ban Tera, we’ll just keep banning Pokemon, but how true is that? How much of the meta really changes if Tera is gone?
I thought about this and decided to make a tier list-ish list of Pokemon being unbanned with Tera gone.
0% chance of being OU without Tera:
(rest of >600 BST legendaries)
These current Ubers are without a doubt going to be Ubers regardless of Tera and most people not argue otherwise.

Very low chance of being OU without Tera:
(Water)
These Pokemon definitely benefit from Tera but I really doubt that any of them would be OU for long if Tera was banned. Also potentially Spectrier could be here as Gen 9 is radically from slower Gen 8 and outside of Tera Blast Spectrier got Draining Kiss.

Mixed bag, could be OU or Ubers without Tera:

Honestly the only 2 Pokemon I have mixed feeling for with Tera.
Tera allows it to tank say a Specs Shadow Ball from Dragapult making it a hit harder to revenge kill, but you could totally play around that as Annihilape player. I’m honestly more inclined to say Annihilape would still be a bit too much even without Tera but it’s close to a 50/50
For Espartha I feel similar way, but more inclined to say it’s be fine depending on where everything goes. If Kingambit is banned, then that assumpt would lean more to being Uber still. Mostly because Espathra already has Dazzling Gleam for Dark types and eventually can break past Steel types with enough Stored Power boosts. Then again dropping its Psychic type for better defensive type helps too.

Definitely would be fine in OU without Tera:

These 2 were definitely undenably banned because of Tera (specifically Tera Blast for Regieleki). They are the only previously legal Pokemon to be banned where the only major buff were these 2. Gliscor has a good chance of being banned, but that’s after getting Spikes.

And also Hearthflame Ogerpon Tera form is unusable without Tera. Without Tera it doesn’t become Zacian and Scovillian’s anti-hero lovechild.

 

[kosecant]

I just want to point out, if we hypothetically had to ban the 19th Tera type, that would not be a complex ban. “19th type cannot be used on any Pokémon” is not complex, it is a simple ban.

 

[Floatstonemafia]

Espartha, Lele, Volcarona are 90% fine in OU without tera.

Annihalape is a soft yes.

I really think Palafin, Urshifu-RS, Baxcaliber, Ursaluna -BM could at least be tested in OU. Not having tera reduces their power enough and opens up enough weaknesses that it might be fine.

Volc lele and no tera to avoid gliscor mean that Gholdengo is put in check (no suspect) and gliscor is significantly more managable (no suspect probably).

Gliscor, Sneasler, Iron Moon, and Kingambit are definitely still OU without tera lol. Just with significantly more issues than their omni check ability now

 

[Magcargo]

I just want to point out, if we hypothetically had to ban the 19th Tera type, that would not be a complex ban. “19th type cannot be used on any Pokémon” is not complex, it is a simple ban.

If the 19th Tera type is only compatible with Tera Blast, then its as simple as banning that move. I doubt it will really shake up much or even be all that overpowered, however.

 

[kosecant]

The evidence we have currently suggests that offensively it would be neutral to every type, which is not amazing to say the least. A base 90 move that can’t hit super effectively is definitely not gonna break the game

 

[woodgoldtwo]

The evidence we have currently suggests that offensively it would be neutral to every type, which is not amazing to say the least. A base 90 move that can’t hit super effectively is definitely not gonna break the game

Tera Blast is 80 base power if that is what you were referring to

 

[SDK03]

And also Hearthflame Ogerpon Tera form is unusable without Tera. Without Tera it doesn’t become Zacian and Scovillian’s anti-hero lovechild.

It’s still a Fire/Grass type with Mold Breaker and effectively 120 BP Fire STAB with extra crit chance and 144 BP Grass STAB. Also a Speed boosting option in Trailblaze and Knock Off / Play Rough. Even without Tera it’s pretty broken.

 

[CheesyBrie]

You know, people say if we don’t ban Tera, we’ll just keep banning Pokemon, but how true is that? How much of the meta really changes if Tera is gone?

Definitely would be fine in OU without Tera:

These 2 were definitely undenably banned because of Tera (specifically Tera Blast for Regieleki). They are the only previously legal Pokemon to be banned where the only major buff were these 2. Gliscor has a good chance of being banned, but that’s after getting Spikes.

Unless the lunatics decide to give Regieleki any sort of other new sparkly coverage move. Or make some stupid "Freeze-Dry, but for Electric types" move that is supereffective against ground types (seriously, Freeze-Dry was a mistake, and I can totally see them doing that).

Just to avoid this being exclusively a "but what if the what and then"

What pokemon, generally speaking, don't use tera effectively in this meta? To ask another way, what have you seen or used that has either been the "worst option" to tera (meaning you'd rather have used it on any other member of your team) or a pokemon that just never clicks the tera button?

 

[Blaze_101392]

The evidence we have currently suggests that offensively it would be neutral to every type, which is not amazing to say the least. A base 90 move that can’t hit super effectively is definitely not gonna break the game

I'm curious what that evidence is. For my money I am expecting it to be an omni type, meaning it is treated as all types at once. Which defensively would be bonkers being immune to 8 types (Ground, Electric, Poison, Psychic, Ghost, Normal, Fighting, and Dragon) and 7 types would be immune to its attacks (Flying, Ground, Ghost, Normal, Fairy, Dark, and Steel) making it basically worthless to attack with.

 

[woodgoldtwo]

I'm curious what that evidence is. For my money I am expecting it to be an omni type, meaning it is treated as all types at once. Which defensively would be bonkers being immune to 8 types (Ground, Electric, Poison, Psychic, Ghost, Normal, Fighting, and Dragon) and 7 types would be immune to its attacks (Flying, Ground, Ghost, Normal, Fairy, Dark, and Steel) making it basically worthless to attack with.

The trailer and some screenshots show that the 19th Tera Type Tera Blast is neutral against Dragonite so this has already been disproven

 

[658Greninja]

Honestly I feel just banning a couple bad apples would bring balance to the metagame.

Banning Gliscor/Ghold would make hazard removal much more doable, thus walls will have more HP when entering the battlefield, and thus making it easier to check certain mons.

Outside those two, most people’s attentions are on Kingambit, Sneasler, Waterpon, Manaphy, and Valiant. (Only Gambit I find broken in the meta rn)

In a way I can see where the pro-Tera crowd is coming from, that with a few bans, it is possible to have a balanced metagame with Tera. Even the lower tiers demonstrated this, look at UU before it was rained down upon with a thousand drops.

Again, we’re not seeing people complaining about Lando cause it can Tera Flying or Water. Even Moth doesn’t receive complaints despite being one of the most common Tera burners rn. After we remove a couple mons, what else would there be to make the meta unbalanced?

 

[arnimacarni]

What if the 19th Tera Type was the friends we made along the way?

Also, can I get some hype for my boi Great Neck aka Past Raikou? CAN I GET some hype for my boi Archaludon?! CAN I GET SOME MFING HYPE FOR MY BOI DRIPPLIN?!?!?!

 

[Spheal boi]

It’s still a Fire/Grass type with Mold Breaker and effectively 120 BP Fire STAB with extra crit chance and 144 BP Grass STAB. Also a Speed boosting option in Trailblaze and Knock Off / Play Rough. Even without Tera it’s pretty broken.

Ik that I already said this multiple times sorry, but there is a chance that she could get Triple Axel in DLC2, and compared to Play Rough, even if it has a higher chance to miss (doing 3 hits), if successfull would be a 120BP move, that not only can hit SE Dragon types, but also Ground, Flying and Grass mons, and with the already big moveset she has, would be just a guessing game about the sets she is using and which Pokémon you think is safer to switch-in

 

[Phoenix007539]

Guys my dad is John Game Freak and he said the new tera type is the light type. It will be good against fairy, steel, ghost, water and poison while being weak against dark, psychic, ice, and ghost

 

[woodgoldtwo]

Guys my dad is John Game Freak and he said the new tera type is the light type. It will be good against fairy, steel, ghost, water and poison while being weak against dark, psychic, ice, and ghost

Firstly those type matchups (almost) don’t make any sense, Secondly almost everything we know about the 19th Tera Type goes against this



(Yes i know it was a joke but why does that matter?)

 

[Avira]

You know, people say if we don’t ban Tera, we’ll just keep banning Pokemon, but how true is that? How much of the meta really changes if Tera is gone?
I thought about this and decided to make a tier list-ish list of Pokemon being unbanned with Tera gone.
0% chance of being OU without Tera:
(rest of >600 BST legendaries)
These current Ubers are without a doubt going to be Ubers regardless of Tera and most people not argue otherwise.

Very low chance of being OU without Tera:
(Water)
These Pokemon definitely benefit from Tera but I really doubt that any of them would be OU for long if Tera was banned. Also potentially Spectrier could be here as Gen 9 is radically from slower Gen 8 and outside of Tera Blast Spectrier got Draining Kiss.

Mixed bag, could be OU or Ubers without Tera:

Honestly the only 2 Pokemon I have mixed feeling for with Tera.
Tera allows it to tank say a Specs Shadow Ball from Dragapult making it a hit harder to revenge kill, but you could totally play around that as Annihilape player. I’m honestly more inclined to say Annihilape would still be a bit too much even without Tera but it’s close to a 50/50
For Espartha I feel similar way, but more inclined to say it’s be fine depending on where everything goes. If Kingambit is banned, then that assumpt would lean more to being Uber still. Mostly because Espathra already has Dazzling Gleam for Dark types and eventually can break past Steel types with enough Stored Power boosts. Then again dropping its Psychic type for better defensive type helps too.

Definitely would be fine in OU without Tera:

These 2 were definitely undenably banned because of Tera (specifically Tera Blast for Regieleki). They are the only previously legal Pokemon to be banned where the only major buff were these 2. Gliscor has a good chance of being banned, but that’s after getting Spikes.

And also Hearthflame Ogerpon Tera form is unusable without Tera. Without Tera it doesn’t become Zacian and Scovillian’s anti-hero lovechild.

Yikes, some horrible takes. Ogerpon-Hearthflame dumps on everything slower even without Tera 'cause of Mold Breaker and Swords Dance and would clearly be broken and has no business being OU.

Baxcalibur is broken with or without Tera and if anything is even more insane in a Teraless meta since you can't pop a defensive Tera to live a hit.

Kingambit is 100% broken because of Tera allowing it to circumvent counterplay and would be much easier to deal with for OU without Tera around.

Darkrai is insanely broken even now and has absolutely not been powercrept.

Sneasler actually has more checks without Tera around to change its poor defensive typing and without the power boost from the mechanic. Gholdengo might be okay in a Teraless meta, which would remain a Sneasler check.

Espathra can't get past Steels without Tera and would not be even close to broken. Things such as CM Nuzzle Hatterene still win 1v1 depending on the set.

Annihilape encourages degenerate play patterns even without Tera and would be horrible for OU and still a clear Uber.

Gliscor isn't so broken that it has close to 0 chance of being OU without Tera

 

[Phoenix007539]

Firstly those type matchups (almost) don’t make any sense, Secondly almost everything we know about the 19th Tera Type goes against this



(Yes i know it was a joke but why does that matter?)

Nah bro trust me, my uncle Bob Nintendo told me theyll explain everything in the dlc, also kalos will be dlc 3 in spring 2024 and AZ floette will be released

 

[Blaze_101392]

The trailer and some screenshots show that the 19th Tera Type Tera Blast is neutral against Dragonite so this has already been disproven

Must have missed that. What trailer was that shown in? I wonder what exactly it would be then if it isn't an omni type. I guess for attacking purposes it would be basically worthless and defensively it would be a steel type on steroids and even Game Freak can tell how bad both of those things would be to add. The only other option I can think of is defensively you become neutral to everything but gets stab on all attacks. Meh, it is pointless speculating and we only have a bit over a month to see what it is.

 

[CheesyBrie]

Obviously the "new" type is Shadow from Pokemon Colosseum.
And with it, they're introducing the "Hyper" status, where Pokemon just sometimes don't attack and instead just waste their turn!
AND you can waste ANOTHER turn getting control of the pokemon again by using the "Call" action!

It'll be great for adding a level of tactical unpredictability to every game!