That last one intriges me.... can we get testing to see if a water immunity would make you immune to water perish song?
Thats an interesting combination for sure. Sadly not using Mega Sceptile on my team, but that is a great idea for a combo.
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Popplio, Brionne, Primarina DIscussion
- Thread starter Nexus
- Start date
According to Ultimario's post in the Battle Research Thread regarding this scenario, this is true.
These are all cool but still hoping for Boomburst eventually, or at least calm mind I'm devastated this doesn't get calm mind.
Well thats a VERY interesting idea to use on a team, but I don't see Liquid voice becoming avalible for quite some times. I wish there was a place that gave the starters the hidden ability, so you could your use own starting pokemon on a team.
Boomburst would be hilarious with liquid voice. It is odd it doesn't get calm mind though.
An idea hit me and I looked up all the Pokemon with Storm Drain/Water Absorb and Pursuit. Not a single one has both. Not even Cacturne :(
But if Dry Skin also makes one immune, both Toxicroak and Parasect get Pursuit. Presuming, of course, they can survive until Perish Song procs. Maybe you're just better off using a Soundproof mon with Pursuit like... Bouffalant. Yeah, not a lot to play with here.
There also isn't really a combo to be found with a Entrainment user with Water Absorb/Storm Drain/Dry Skin/Soundproof. So that's out.
Trapping is always an option though. Cacturne, Lapras, Cradily, and Gastrodon all learn Block, and Jynx has Mean Look. And there are plenty of Water Absorb/Storm Drain Whirlpool users around, including the now much more viable Mantine. This is all, of course, presuming a lot. But it would be sweet to get a double KO from Perish Song.
Gimmicks aside, it'll let you preserve momentum, regardless if you're able to actually feint your opponents.
I'm expecting Boomburst to be added as a move tutor move in the next game but to balance it out I think GF will only make it available to mons who learn Hyper Voice naturally in order to prevent the likes of Slyveon and Gardevoir getting it.
Add Araquanid with Spider Web/Infestation to the arsenal.
Oh yeah... and would you look at that. Its also the Pokemon's very first Water Absorber with access to Entrainment. And I completely forgot about Infestation. That would be a lot more reliable than Whirlpool with its guaranteed 4-5 turns and 100% accuracy. Both Wooper and Seismitoad get it too.
Huge speculation, needs testing. But I have no reason to believe this isnt true.
Liquid Voice makes opponents sound move water type as well. Text says
"All sound-based moves become Water-type moves."
Essentially, Primarina will resist hyper voice and boomburst and any other sound damaging move. I also believe that things like pixilate hyper voice will also turn water type upon damage, which will also give primarina resistance to it. IDK how damage will be calculated on the pixilate side in accordance to STAB.
But with Primarina's naturally high sp.defenses it could have a niche against sound pokemon.
the way i see it, Liquid voice fills the field with sound sensitive bubbles. They burst and bam, thats how a sound moves get turned to water type.
This could explain why Liquid Voice does not grant the sound based move extra power like the -ate abilities.
ive seen people say that primarina is like sylveon, which may be so but Primarina looking like it could wall sylveon. . . god primarina would benefit from recover :P geez GF. (why is there no recovering water type move yet. Water has always been shown to have healing properties, just in general)
Liquid Voice makes opponents sound move water type as well. Text says
"All sound-based moves become Water-type moves."
Essentially, Primarina will resist hyper voice and boomburst and any other sound damaging move. I also believe that things like pixilate hyper voice will also turn water type upon damage, which will also give primarina resistance to it. IDK how damage will be calculated on the pixilate side in accordance to STAB.
But with Primarina's naturally high sp.defenses it could have a niche against sound pokemon.
the way i see it, Liquid voice fills the field with sound sensitive bubbles. They burst and bam, thats how a sound moves get turned to water type.
This could explain why Liquid Voice does not grant the sound based move extra power like the -ate abilities.
ive seen people say that primarina is like sylveon, which may be so but Primarina looking like it could wall sylveon. . . god primarina would benefit from recover :P geez GF. (why is there no recovering water type move yet. Water has always been shown to have healing properties, just in general)
What, do you want S/M to get 7.8/10; Too much water as well? :p
Wai
Wait can someone confirm this , if this is true that makes it nice check to Sylveon, Mega Gardevoir and even Special Mega Mence
I don't think that's how Liquid Voice works though
I kinda doubt that it would affect the opposing mon's sound based attacks as well, mostly because that in a doubles situation it would affect your teammate when you make an opposing hyper voice water type (heatran cant switch on mega garde for example).
Also screw recover I want calm mind =<{
Too late, it's already been done:
I really don't think that's how Liquid Voice will work. Still, some confirmation one way or the other would be nice.
I really really like this idea, wtf.
i understand your skepticism, and am glad you asked in the mechanics thread. :)
would be cool if liquid voice worked as a defensive ability (at least in the hands of a water type, etc)
ehhh not to be rude but that isnt even a problem with the ability, thats just bad team building and flopped strategy.
i can't agree with "screw recover" but yea calm mind would've been cool too
No recover or wish... Why?
Its movepool and its stats doesn't seem to quite align. Having a fantastic sp.def and being water/fairy means it could play a more defensive/supportive role but it lacks any sort of recovery outside of rest and the team support it offers could have been better. It has great sp.atk and a nice movepool to give it coverage but has a slow speed stat and lacks any sort of way to boost its offenses. It has potential but it feels like it's missing one or two things, which will hopefully be patched up with move tutors in the future. I hope it gets Boomburst and some form of reliable recovery. A better support movepool (ie. wish, heal bell, etc.) would be nice as well.
Regardless of its competitive potential, I'll be choosing this as my starter. The Rowlet line kept winning me over with each reveal (and I'll choose it if I end up getting both games) but Popplio was the starter that I adored when they were initially revealed and its evolutions have been a great and unexpected surprise.
Regardless of its competitive potential, I'll be choosing this as my starter. The Rowlet line kept winning me over with each reveal (and I'll choose it if I end up getting both games) but Popplio was the starter that I adored when they were initially revealed and its evolutions have been a great and unexpected surprise.
No clue, lack of reliable recovery and no calm mind kinda means you can't run this thing as a bulky set up mon...seems like best ideas are AV or straight up life orb/specs
From the battle mechanics thread "Only the Pokemon with the ability Liquid Voice gets its sound moves changed to Water Type. It's not a field effect." so rip that idea
So Liquid Voice is literally just a watered-down version of -ate abilities. Liquid Voice is also not even crucial to gain access to sound-based STAB since its signature attack might already have that attribute.
Considering this was gonna get overshadowed by Azumraill in terms of being a slow but bulky powerhouse (with priority), it would have been real nice if Primarina could stand out more as something entirely different as not to further saturate water-types. Whether this thing is belongs in OU or PU, Primarina is just so painfully boring to use...
At least the idea of teasing burned foes in Battle Royale with Sparkling Aria seems hilarious.
Considering this was gonna get overshadowed by Azumraill in terms of being a slow but bulky powerhouse (with priority), it would have been real nice if Primarina could stand out more as something entirely different as not to further saturate water-types. Whether this thing is belongs in OU or PU, Primarina is just so painfully boring to use...
At least the idea of teasing burned foes in Battle Royale with Sparkling Aria seems hilarious.
I mean if it got Boomburst Id at least be like fine you cant get the 30% or itd be stupid but it doesnt...cant even run this thing like Sylveon either when it gets no Calm Mind or Wish/Recover...stats are good but the movepool leaves so much to be desired. Still think itll be UU though.
thats a shame really. its like what is the point Sparkling aria vs Liquid Hyper voice, same power. . healing an opponent but having torrent vs not healing them.
ill do some calcs. I want to see how well Primarina fares againsts its checks. If anything catching them on as they switch in could be awesome.
-252+ SpA Life Orb Primarina Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mega Venusaur: 192-229 (52.7 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-252+ SpA Life Orb Primarina Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 218-257 (53.9 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-252+ SpA Life Orb Primarina Psychic vs. 240 HP / 252 SpD Tentacruel: 192-229 (53.1 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
-252+ SpA Life Orb Primarina Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 239-286 (67.8 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-252+ SpA Life Orb Primarina Shadow Ball vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 190-224 (67.6 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-252+ SpA Life Orb Primarina Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vaporeon: 205-244 (44.1 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-252+ SpA Life Orb Primarina Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric: 263-309 (93.5 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
-252+ SpA Life Orb Primarina Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zapdos: 213-252 (55.4 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-252+ SpA Life Orb Primarina Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 229-270 (53 - 62.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
-252+ SpA Life Orb Primarina Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki: 146-172 (45.9 - 54%) -- 41.4% chance to 2HKO
-252+ SpA Life Orb Primarina Hidden Power Electric vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Volcanion: 203-239 (55.7 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-252+ SpA Life Orb Primarina Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Volcanion: 151-178 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-252+ SpA Life Orb Primarina Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-W: 190-224 (62.5 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yeahh primarina hits pretty hard against things that check it. in bold are things it can try to outspeed, even in modest nature.
Support from the team is greatly appreciated, like having the checks low enough to having spikes and/or stealth rocks up.
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Primarina don't have the tools to be a efficient support pokemon, so the only way to run it is as bulky attacker.
With the pixelate nerf (the bonus of pixelate was nerf to 20%), on a choice specs set, sylveon's hyper voice doesn't hit harder that primarina's moonblast anymore.
-252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 279-329 (93.9 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
-252+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 288-339 (96.9 - 114.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO.
Primarina's physical bulk is around the same as sylveon's (actually a little better).
-252+ Atk Life Orb Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 324-382 (89 - 104.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
-252+ Atk Life Orb Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 360-425 (91.3 - 107.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Also Primarina has more coverage than Sylveon and is not totally shut down by Scizor, it even has a chance of OHKO Ferrothorn on full health, so I guess it outclasses sylveon as a Choice Specs user,
I think a Life Orb set isn't that great of a choice, it works but Sylveon outclasses it thank to Calm Mind. Assault Vest is the other option, but I only see it working on UU, which will most likely be Primarina's tier.
Anyway I still see the a choice specs set making Primarina a UU with a niche on OU.
With the pixelate nerf (the bonus of pixelate was nerf to 20%), on a choice specs set, sylveon's hyper voice doesn't hit harder that primarina's moonblast anymore.
-252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 279-329 (93.9 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
-252+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 288-339 (96.9 - 114.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO.
Primarina's physical bulk is around the same as sylveon's (actually a little better).
-252+ Atk Life Orb Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 324-382 (89 - 104.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
-252+ Atk Life Orb Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 360-425 (91.3 - 107.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Also Primarina has more coverage than Sylveon and is not totally shut down by Scizor, it even has a chance of OHKO Ferrothorn on full health, so I guess it outclasses sylveon as a Choice Specs user,
I think a Life Orb set isn't that great of a choice, it works but Sylveon outclasses it thank to Calm Mind. Assault Vest is the other option, but I only see it working on UU, which will most likely be Primarina's tier.
Anyway I still see the a choice specs set making Primarina a UU with a niche on OU.