Pokemon Home 3.0 update and S/V compatibility arriving ~~May 24th~~ ~~"Soon"~~ MAY 30TH FOR REAL THIS TIME

[SadisticMystic]

https://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-...mon-scarlet-and-pokemon-violet-is-coming-soon

So there it is, finally. Notable takeaways:

• As usual, the first time you connect S/V to Home, you'll get a present consisting of the Paldea HA starter trio. Tera types are just Grass/Fire/Water rather than Dark/Ghost/Fighting (so there isn't that to contrast them with the starter you get in game), but hey.
• Backward 9→8 transfer is possible for Pokemon that appear in both games, just like the rumors were predicting.
• Moving a Pokemon forward to S/V will set its Tera type to one of its standard types--no dice on the idea that they might have used this field to preserve the Hidden Power type. Don't know how they'll determine whether to use type 1 or type 2, but it's not hard to change in any case.
• Since there are no BP in Paldea, the Home Point exchange for S/V will let you convert to LP this time. No exchange rate has been specified, but I have to imagine it's something like 1 Home Point = 100 LP.
• There will be a new menu available within Home that allows you to customize the Pokemon's moveset before you move it into a new game, rather than being stuck with whatever the last four level-up moves were. "These moves are limited to moves that can be learned in Pokémon Sword and Pokémon Shield, Pokémon Brilliant Diamond and Pokémon Shining Pearl (some moves excluded), Pokémon Legends: Arceus, and Pokémon Scarlet and Pokémon Violet," as they put it.

This last point has some interesting ramifications. Will that mean you can, for example, get moves that were Sw/Sh TMs and TRs to be in your movesest when you move to BD/SP rather than being limited to that game's insular environment (like they must have been expecting when they were adding legacy moves to the Battle Tower opponents pool)? Will it be mandatory to go through this menu for all future withdrawals (even to Sw/Sh, which previously allowed you to withdraw while keeping legacy moves)? Until we hear more about that, this could mean that if you want to keep old legacy or event moves, like Eruption Heatran or Softboiled Clefable, you might only have six days to get the Pokemon transferred up to Home and then to Galar before it becomes too late.

Update:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1659627758891433989

We put the cart before the Mudsdale! Earlier we mistakenly posted that Pokémon HOME version 3.0.0 would launch on May 23/24. However, the actual release date is yet to be announced. 3.0.0 is coming soon though, so please continue to follow our pages for more information!

Update 2:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1661886235391176705

Maintenance to update Pokémon HOME to version 3.0.0 is scheduled to begin on Monday, 5/29 at 5pm PT. Pokémon HOME will not be available during this maintenance.
Note that this update could take until 5/30 at 11pm PT to complete. Thank you for your patience.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Wheyyyyy.

I was hoping that there'd be a new gift Pokemon for completing the NatDex but oh well. Time to put the army of shinies I've been transferring from USUM and Go to use and do some serious trading.

Backwards 9-8 compatibility is actually really neat, kind of gives me an incentive to perhaps one day get SwSh.

 

[R_N]

Considering they keep saying "some moves excluded" I imagine this is probably going to be a thing of either "purely the Level Up movepool for that game" or "Level Up + specific memorizable moves" for that game.
ie: It might let Egg Moves provided they're in the egg list for that game, and if any TMs/TRs overlap, but will probably shuck out anything else.

Or "Level Up + any Memories attained for that specific game" since I'm guessing this is a feature you'll just always have access to.

 

[Konan92]

Considering they keep saying "some moves excluded" I imagine this is probably going to be a thing of either "purely the Level Up movepool for that game" or "Level Up + specific memorizable moves" for that game.
ie: It might let Egg Moves provided they're in the egg list for that game, and if any TMs/TRs overlap, but will probably shuck out anything else.

Or "Level Up + any Memories attained for that specific game" since I'm guessing this is a feature you'll just always have access to.

It's basically the movepool dexit we all were dreading. BUT, it seems a sort of move relearner is being added in the future. Leakers say it's pretty disappointing tho, they didn't specify why

EDIT: the way they put it on the website, I THINK they mean the movepool dexit is happening, but just for moves coming from games before SwSh, LGPE included (basically then, rip toxic on every mon) and ALSO some moves from BDSP (hm moves?). Audino, Dedenne and wishport clef on suicide watch if true

 

[R_N]

It's basically the movepool dexit we all were dreading. BUT, it seems a sort of move relearner is being added in the future. Leakers say it's pretty disappointing tho, they didn't specify why

EDIT: the way they put it on the website, I THINK they mean the movepool dexit is happening, but just for moves coming from games before SwSh, LGPE included (basically then, rip toxic on every mon) and ALSO some moves from BDSP (hm moves?). Audino, Dedenne and wishport clef on suicide watch if true

That's definitely a possibility too, and would open up some of the SWSH & LA tutor moves you just otherwise dont get to use despite being in SV, but it does somewhat feel at odds with both the moveset reset conceit and the lack of a battle ready mark

would it have killed them to show more pictures of this

 

[pika pal]

So one bit of wording I note in my cope: The phrasing is "These moves are limited to moves that can be learned in...," but not "learned by the Pokemon in..."

Depending on how stringent this is, it might allow some Pokemon to keep their transfer moves IF the move existed in the Gen 8-onward games, whether or not it's part of their natural learnset (i.e. it auto-prunes Dexited moves like Heal Block, but Knock Off exists even if you can't get it IN Gen 8 on, say, Bisharp).

 

[Lectrys]

So which of these will turn out to be the correct interpretation?
When a Pokemon in Pokemon HOME is transferred to Pokemon SV, you may only select already-learned moves for it...

• In its Pokemon SV movepool
• In its Pokemon SV, SwSh, BDSP, and PLA movepools combined besides moves not in Pokemon SV
• In Pokemon SV period

Knowing which of these is true will massively shift pretty much every meta.

For example, respectively...

• Rillaboom can't learn Grassy Glide
• Rillaboom can learn Grassy Glide, Bisharp can't learn Knock Off
• Bisharp can learn Knock Off

The reports of rogue Expanding Force Hatterenes in Pokemon HOME SV statistics makes me think the 2nd option is the most likely, but other interpretations cannot be dismissed....

 

[Konan92]

So which of these will turn out to be the correct interpretation?
When a Pokemon in Pokemon HOME is transferred to Pokemon SV, you may only select already-learned moves for it...

• In its Pokemon SV movepool
• In its Pokemon SV, SwSh, BDSP, and PLA movepools combined besides moves not in Pokemon SV
• In Pokemon SV period

Knowing which of these is true will massively shift pretty much every meta.

For example, respectively...

• Rillaboom can't learn Grassy Glide
• Rillaboom can learn Grassy Glide, Bisharp can't learn Knock Off
• Bisharp can learn Knock Off

The reports of rogue Expanding Force Hatterenes in Pokemon HOME SV statistics makes me think the 2nd option is the most likely, but other interpretations cannot be dismissed....

1st option is 99,99% out the window bar pokemon coming from BDSP specifically, so we're left with 2 and 3. Ngl, 2nd option doesnt sound actually THAT bad, except there are instances where a pokemon would lose a move that is absolutely *instrumental* for it to be able to do something (I mentioned audino who'd lose toxic and knock off, and dedenne who'd lose recycle, but there is also, say, slurpuff who'd lose belly drum, lycanroc midnight who'd lose sucker punch, archeops who'd lose roost, and many more). And I say "not that bad" because there's some positive aspects to all that, like not needing as much to run taunt or sub on every bulky setup mon since toxic isnt as common, or stealth rock weak pokemon switching in more often because boots arent being knocked off at every turn, but BOY do they need to revisit a lot of pokemons movesets, and with this being an urgency even if they left things as they were, dexiting movepools aint the way to go

 

[doipy hooves]

Since there are no BP in Paldea, the Home Point exchange for S/V will let you convert to LP this time. No exchange rate has been specified, but I have to imagine it's something like 1 Home Point = 100 LP.

I posted in the main thread but I wanted to note that the LP conversion rate is 10 LP per 1 home point.
https://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/pokemonhome/sc/features/15/

I didn't really expand on my thoughts there but personally I think this feels pretty thoughtless and underwhelming with how easy it is to accumulate LP in SV's economy. You can easily get thousands by walking around the map and finding raids among all the other ways they added. Even almost every TM material can be exchanged for more LP except Gimmighoul coins and even then you get those in a bundle.

Compared to the other ratios of SWSH's 1 BP per 30 Home Points, BDSP's 1 BP per 20 Home points, and PLA's 1 Merit Point per 1 Home Point, you could get a lot more relative value for your Home Points in those games where accumulating the local currency takes a lot more effort. For example if you wanted to buy a vitamin in SV with Home Points you would have to pay 1000 Home Points, whereas you would only need 60 Home Points in SV for 2 BP vitamins or 20 Home Points in BDSP for their 1 BP vitamins, so you could get 50 vitamins in BDSP for the cost of 1 in SV for the same 1000 Home Points.

More comparisons:
Ability Capsule in SV costs $100,000 (10,000 HOME points) while in BDSP and SWSH it costs 50 BP (1000/1500 HOME points).
Bottle Cap in SV costs $20000 (2000 HOME points) and 25 BP in BDSP/SWSH (500/750 HOME points).
PP Up in SV costs $10000 (1000 HOME points) or 10 BP in BDSP/SWSH (200/300 HOME points).
Mints in SV cost $20000 (2000 HOME points) or 50 BP in BDSP/SWSH (1000/1500 HOME points).

 

[TheMantyke]

Even so long after its death, our lord and savior menu storage continues to provide. How sweet it is that those x999 Bottle Caps and Gold Bottle Caps I farmed before updating are still available and useful to this day…

Honestly I am super impressed that we’re getting backwards compatibility for the first time in 23 years. The move tutor in home is an interesting solution to the multiple move pools problem of gen 8 intergenerational stuff. I do wonder how exactly SV will filter out Pokémon with old movepools to exclude them from ranked battles.

I will say, the wording for everything on how the move tutor works is a little vague and leaves room open for a lot of different interpretations. If I had to guess, we’re probably getting access to our four actively known moves in each of the three games, any move relearner teachable attacks, any egg / event moves, and any relearnable TRs or PLA tutors. I think the notice about “moves relearnable in SWSH / BDSP / PLA” might just be to obviously exclude LGPE relearner moves since that’s the only switch game with one way transport. I guess we’ll see when it drops on Tuesday.

If that really is the case, then oooh man, that’s a neat solution for preserving Gen 7 and earlier moves for a lot of Pokémon. You can leave their SWSH movepool as a big pile of useful old attacks, then presumedly just retract them whenever for Gen 9. Before your need two entirely Landorus-T if you wanted to switch a single move set between Toxic and Knock Off. Now you just have to select different moves in Home since the SWSH move set still has both. Or well, maybe I’m speculating way too much. We’ll see how the system actually works soon I guess.

Really stoked I can EV train with cheap BDSP BP Vitamins or SWSH Pokejob shenanigans. Screw EV training the old fashion way in SV lol

 

[Worldie]

I struggle to share people's optimism about the relearner.

To me it's quite obvious that it just means that you can access the "move relearner" function for any given game and their dedicated moveset and nothing more.
I feel everyone thinking this is a "i can teach every tutor / egg / tm move available in any game then move it back!" is just a insanely high amount of copium.

 

[Konan92]

Say, I thought a bit of the implications of this move relearner thing. What does it mean for pokes imported to PLA? You can only set their moves to something that *is* present in the game, is that correct?
Also, speaking of PLA, does that mean the automatic move resettal from moving pokes between gen 8 games is now lifted?
... does all this mean pokes with gen 8 movesets are legal in VGC?

 

[Worldie]

Say, I thought a bit of the implications of this move relearner thing. What does it mean for pokes imported to PLA? You can only set their moves to something that *is* present in the game, is that correct?
Also, speaking of PLA, does that mean the automatic move resettal from moving pokes between gen 8 games is now lifted?
... does all this mean pokes with gen 8 movesets are legal in VGC?

So far it means literally nothing, the wording is too vague to have any guaranteed-to-be-true explanation.

IF (big if) the explanation that you can actually import moveset from other games is true, welcome to the biggest pay to win VGC that ever happened
(Also the main reason for which I strongly say people are high on copium and this is just a in-home move reminder limited to each game to only that game)

 

[Konan92]

welcome to the biggest pay to win VGC that ever happened

Literally what's now become my biggest concern

 

[TheMantyke]

If transfer moves are a thing in SV, there is almost certainly some system to bar those Pokémon from official competitions given that’s been the standard for a decade. The fact there was no mention of such a system does now make me side more with the “just the in game move relearner in Home” interpretation far more. Also, FWIW, transfer moves and Pokémon were a part of VGC events before. Like, Latios, Cresselia, and Heatran are all insanely pivotal Pokémon for VGC 2012 and those are all coming from Gen 4 games. Ultimately if something rare is popular, you can expect a lot of clones or flat out legal hacks circulating around. VGC has been riddled with dumb entry barriers with Pokémon that are unreasonably hard to get like that before; I had to beg here online to get a child at our Pokémon league a multiscale Lugia for a VGC 2018 competition. I would say that having to pay like the price of a retail video game as tournament entry now on top of travel expenses is probably a bigger P2W barrier.

The move relearner just being a way to customize the move set before you move your Pokémon over is a fair interpretation I hadn’t considered. The nature of some of this announcement is so vague, it feels a bit easy to mix info from unofficial channels, which also seem to be a bit confused with this stuff. If transfer moves die and the sum of Gen 1-7 movepools is contained to Pokémon SWSH, I’m very fine with it. I had a lot of fun in late Gen 8 having all my stuff fly between BDSP, PLA, and SWSH and keeping that sort of interaction going is something I’m willing to take dead transfer moves to keep enjoying. At least my Poketransfer Donphan with the VC exclusive move Water Gun will be preserved on the home moveset info for distant generations to see...

And now the official release date has been seemingly pushed back! If I am totally honest, I was shocked to see them give a hard release date for this all happening in the first place. I figured our good ol’ run-on-the-bank from 2013 had permanently dissuaded them from ever giving these transfer features loud hard dates for fear of crashing the service again, even if the infrastructure is so much better now than a pre Nintendo account 3ds eshop. Maybe they’re keeping with that soft launch philosophy after all? I guess we’ll see on the 24th.

 

[misterdarvus]

Okay why did they blueballed us with announcing release date and then delayed it yet again? I did not paid attention, but did the International account announced it while the Japanese account didn't?

 

[R_N]

Okay why did they blueballed us with announcing release date and then delayed it yet again? I did not paid attention, but did the International account announced it while the Japanese account didn't?

Yes the western (or at least, the American, I dont know about Europe) account gave a date (& even exact time in the news story, strangely), but the Eastern (Japan, China, Korea....) side never said anything.

So pick your stupid poison:
-It was meant for the 24th, only the American branch gave a date [maybe they saw The Hunger in the tweets], but Something happened that necessitated an emergency delay
-It was never meant for the 24th, the American branch got wires crossed with the upcoming Scarlet & Violet patch that's due this week (side note: it's weird they didn't announce an actual date for this? They gave a range of dates sometime between 22nd & 26th)
-It was meant for the 24th, but the date got moved before hand and American branch didn't update their PR properly
-It is actually still meant for the 24th as we speak, but America wasn't allowed to say the date ahead of time, so they had to walk it back despite still being accurate. (this is the coping answer but also the stupidest possible scenario)

 

[bdt2002]

This may sound like a crazy opinion… but not only am I okay with the Pokémon HOME update being quote “delayed” (which isn’t actually what happened, people just love fake news apparently), but I actually support it. I think what the developers were trying to do with Scarlet & Violet was get the base game out “in time” for November 2022 but push back the three major content updates by one season’s worth relative to Sword & Shield’s three major content updates.

SwSh HOME update: Winter/Spring 2020 (February)
SwSh DLC 1: Summer 2020 (June)
SwSh DLC 2: Fall 2020 (October)

SV HOME update: Spring/Summer 2023 (possibly June?)
SV DLC 1: Fall 2023 (possibly October?)
SV DLC 2: Winter 2023 (carries into 2024?)

Historically speaking, Pokémon’s release dates for products can be predicted relatively consistently on a 3-4 month pattern. For them, the seasons for release dates are as follows:

Winter = December through February
Spring = March through May
Summer = June through August
Fall = September through November

I believe the reason for this pattern shift to be partly due to the main Pokémon Legends: Arceus “update” back in February of 2022 (which also happens to be the same month it and BDSP got their HOME updates). If all of Generation 9 (so far) was supposed to be “the end of Generation 8, but one season later”, this means Scarlet & Violet could have released in Winter 2022, but was unable to do so due to needing to keep up with merchandising. In short, the pattern change gives Game Freak and ILCA the time they need to rebalance their schedule going forward for content after the Scarlet & Violet era. In time, I believe this will help make a new Fall 2024 or Winter 2024 game that has yet to be announced be more polished than they would have been without this one-season skip forward.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

In short, the pattern change gives Game Freak and ILCA the time they need to rebalance their schedule going forward for content after the Scarlet & Violet era. In time, I believe this will help make a new Fall 2024 or Winter 2024 game that has yet to be announced be more polished than they would have been without this one-season skip forward.

This is copium of the highest order

 

[Worldie]

Yeah, as much as I'd love to agree, I can't see a corporation as big as Nintendo remotely care of their subsidiarys.

The games sell, I doubt Nintendo remotely cares that they're "unpolished".

 

[R_N]

Nintendo probably does care, in so far as its their biggest brand and they literally own a third of it.
The fact they had to issue an apology at all is probably embarrassing if nothing else.



That said this "season gap" is fairly meaningless grand scheme when it's likely more on the back of covid (we can kind of spot an assortment of knock on effects by this point between the anime, tcg, games...) and LA and accounts for like. 2 months. And the home update, whenever it does drop, will likely be very...mmmmm...underhwelming.

 

[Worldie]

The fact they had to issue an apology at all is probably embarrassing if nothing else.

I'll believe that the "apology" is anything other than just standard PR when I see an actual release from GF that isnt looking like a PS2 game.
Ok, maybe not a ps2 game, but at least showing the bare minimum to justify the price.

Though one thing I do wonder, and it's what they're cooking for next year. There's no "Legends / Let's Go" nor remakes in sight but I struggle to see them going a entire year without any release. Yes yes there's the two dlcs but I don't think these alones will cut the entire 2023 -> 2024 period.

 

[R_N]

I'll believe that the "apology" is anything other than just standard PR when I see an actual release from GF that isnt looking like a PS2 game.
Ok, maybe not a ps2 game, but at least showing the bare minimum to justify the price.

Though one thing I do wonder, and it's what they're cooking for next year. There's no "Legends / Let's Go" nor remakes in sight but I struggle to see them going a entire year without any release. Yes yes there's the two dlcs but I don't think these alones will cut the entire 2023 -> 2024 period.

It's not standard PR, though. Usually you don't have big name games have to make an apology like that, especially when they sell gangbusters. Putting it in patch notes in particular is very funny.

I'm not even saying it will "lead" anywhere soon (especially with how these games are developed) or notable, but I still have to imagine its embarassing to see/do. It'll like lead to SOME Change; they actually talked about that to an extent with Legends Arceus and the new tools they developed to help with development.



As for the 2024 game, that'll likely be announced for Pokemon Day as per usual. And then we won't hear anything about it for 6 months, bringing to mind why they bothered to bring it up so early at all.

 

[doipy hooves]

I believe the reason for this pattern shift to be partly due to the main Pokémon Legends: Arceus “update” back in February of 2022 (which also happens to be the same month it and BDSP got their HOME updates).

The "SWSH HOME update" is more like the release date of HOME in the first place.

BDSP and PLA HOME support was added in May 2022.

 

[R_N]

Yes the western (or at least, the American, I dont know about Europe) account gave a date (& even exact time in the news story, strangely), but the Eastern (Japan, China, Korea....) side never said anything.

So pick your stupid poison:
-It was meant for the 24th, only the American branch gave a date [maybe they saw The Hunger in the tweets], but Something happened that necessitated an emergency delay
-It was never meant for the 24th, the American branch got wires crossed with the upcoming Scarlet & Violet patch that's due this week (side note: it's weird they didn't announce an actual date for this? They gave a range of dates sometime between 22nd & 26th)
-It was meant for the 24th, but the date got moved before hand and American branch didn't update their PR properly
-It is actually still meant for the 24th as we speak, but America wasn't allowed to say the date ahead of time, so they had to walk it back despite still being accurate. (this is the coping answer but also the stupidest possible scenario)

Good news everyone, since the Home maintenance was originally intended to be...now, and the SV patch is also not out now (still weird they didn't announce an actual date) we can rule out option 2 & 4

we are now dealing with just the base level of an annoying stupid situation and not an active migraine stupid situation