Cut off right before Gardenia gives the TM
It is most likely still Grass Knot (since I don't think Roserade will learn it by level up), but at least I would like to know the the TM number.
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Pokemon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl - Release 19th Nov 2021
- Thread starter DHR-107
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It is most likely still Grass Knot (since I don't think Roserade will learn it by level up), but at least I would like to know the the TM number.
His 2019 RT was all the way on October 27, when SwSh didn't actually get datamined until four days before release. This doesn't seem to mean anything.
Leaks aside, new (?) footage from BDSP with Route 210 music:
Just watched the Maylene battle.
First things first, the Leaker didn't have Pluck on Staravia, I'm scared.
More importantly though... The level curve is confirmed to be DPs, BUT, even with 4 mons on his crew (Gastly seems to be new to the party at Lv. 21) and a team with 4 Med. Slow group mons, he was with his strongest mons capping at lv. 32.
That is pretty high, for reference, I was testing Pearl and my team was ranging from Lv. 26 (Finneon), to 28 (WormaTrash), with most of them at 27 (Grotle, Misdreavus, Staravia.)
However, Maylene's Lucario being at 30 made it not be too bad.
The biggest thing is how they made Maylene a legit threat now.
Bulk Up + Drain Punch from a Lucario at that point of the game is something you really can't sleep on.
AI used it properly too, only 1 BU so it doesn't turn Lucario into a sitting duck.
Now I'm really looking forward to it.
First things first, the Leaker didn't have Pluck on Staravia, I'm scared.
More importantly though... The level curve is confirmed to be DPs, BUT, even with 4 mons on his crew (Gastly seems to be new to the party at Lv. 21) and a team with 4 Med. Slow group mons, he was with his strongest mons capping at lv. 32.
That is pretty high, for reference, I was testing Pearl and my team was ranging from Lv. 26 (Finneon), to 28 (WormaTrash), with most of them at 27 (Grotle, Misdreavus, Staravia.)
However, Maylene's Lucario being at 30 made it not be too bad.
The biggest thing is how they made Maylene a legit threat now.
Bulk Up + Drain Punch from a Lucario at that point of the game is something you really can't sleep on.
AI used it properly too, only 1 BU so it doesn't turn Lucario into a sitting duck.
Now I'm really looking forward to it.
Volt-Ikazuchi
Wouldn’t that tread into heavy-spoiler leak territory? You gotta wait until the game is released or talk about it in the “leaked materials thread” of the BDSP sub-forum once that one is out.
I might come off as preachy or bossy but we don’t want to get into troubles with the mods for talking about leaked stuff in here.
Wouldn’t that tread into heavy-spoiler leak territory? You gotta wait until the game is released or talk about it in the “leaked materials thread” of the BDSP sub-forum once that one is out.
I might come off as preachy or bossy but we don’t want to get into troubles with the mods for talking about leaked stuff in here.
I @'d one of the mods when the leaks started to come up. No one answered. That was roughly 24h ago.
Also, there's no such thread yet and I'm hardly the only one discussing leaked content here, if anything, the map is much spicier leak-wise.
Until the leaked discussion is moved somewhere, I don't see why we wouldn't discuss it here.
It looks like none of the characters would get a design update. Kinda sucks cause I like seeing old characters with new outfits and stuff but they really wanted to stay faithful to the original :/ I feel sorry for Aaron and Flint that they would have to continue wearing those bland outfits for the next 30 years until they get a redesign. Cynthia is an exception since her black dress is an iconic part of her look.
About the remakes, these are the first ones that I don't want to buy. Because the cost is too high for what they're offeringAnd Candice and Volkners.
&
I guess the difference is how past remakes were handled. From what I understand Tales of Vesperia and the various FF6 remakes are essentially ports with updated graphic/new art style. They not only weren't meant to change anything but there was also no precedence with previous game remakes that they were expected to for more.
That's where Pokemon is different. Previous remakes weren't just the same game but with better graphics and updated mechanics, they also added new content to expand upon what was already there (meanwhile big RPGs like Tales & FF are already pretty expansive in their world). FRLG added the Sevii Islands, HGSS expanded the roles and identity of many characters and made a much improved Kanto, ORAS was essentially a revision of the Gen III games since the Pokemon World had changed in such a major way with the recent games of the time. Even Let's Go added some new twists here and there so that it wasn't just Yellow Version but one version you get an Eevee and there's no Wild Battles.
However BDSP is the first remakes to, oddly enough, just be a remake with a few added mechanics that doesn't change much (or at most semi-add in the Platinum content... instead of just adding in the Platinum content). The concept of previous remakes was essentially current gen but a past region (Gen III but Kanto, Gen IV but Johto, Gen VI but Hoenn). BDSP not only didn't fulfill that expectation, but it went out of the way to try and REGRESS from that expectation. People wanted Gen VIII but Sinnoh (preferably Platinum's Sinnoh), instead they got 3D sprite recreations of the vanilla Sinnoh DS games. And that is very disappointing, doesn't matter if GF didn't promise it, and GF knew that.
Yeah, ILCA Vs Masuda. At least I'm hoping that at least ILCA wanted to make a better game, but these odd decisions reek of Masuda deciding to experiment on what GF essentially sees as a side game.
Not a Fire Starter user, huh?
Okay that's actually kind of funny.
Veilstone looks good...
This sums up my feelings as well. Why pay 60 dollars for a game I already own when I can just download Renegade Platinum on my phone for free which has more content and no mandatory XP share.
I'd be pretty happy to find out the Pokémon get added to SwSh as DLC though.
I was eagerly awaiting a video that would show both a Gym battle and the stats of the player's Pokémon, and this one was exactly what I was hoping for O:
Some observations:
- At level 22 (while fighting Gardenia's Roserade), the player's Monferno is shown to have the stats 66 HP / 46 Attack / 34 Defense / 45 Special Attack / 34 Special Defense / 47 Speed.
- Roserade and Monferno are both level 22 during the fight, and Roserade's item is a confirmed Sitrus Berry, so this is not factored into damage. Roserade uses Grass Knot twice, taking Monferno's HP from 66 to 48 first, then critting and taking it from 48 to 24.
This is an awful screenshot, sorry, but we also see Monferno's Flame Wheel do this amount back to Roserade:
I was doing some calcs based on the known stats to try and figure out if Roserade had EVs or not, and I found something else in the process:
Roserade doesn't have EVs in Special Attack, but it does have Technician, which I think is actually our first confirmation of Hidden Abilities as well as proof that some bosses will be using them! O:
(I mean, I'm sure HAs would have been in either way because of HOME compatibility, but we didn't know if they would be obtainable before now, so a boss actually using one is interesting news to me!)
The following calcs are using the exact stats of the player's Monferno based on the gameplay recording! The absence of EVs is because it only took IVs to manipulate its stats to the correct numbers, not because I forgot or anything - just being clear on this because I am sure people will assume 0 EVs are inaccurate to an in-game team.
Those match the above stats exactly! ignore Abomasite I use it a lot to make absolutely sure the calc isn't factoring in an item
Without Technician, but even with the greatest possible investment on Roserade, 18 is not a possible roll:
However, with Technician:
0 SpA Technician also makes the crit roll of 24 possible and common:
At the same time, the crit roll expressly deconfirms Special Attack investment, as it makes 24 impossible:
It's a lot harder to tell exactly how much Flame Wheel did, but my best guess is about 75% to 80%...? which makes me think Roserade probably has imperfect HP and Defense IVs. This is with 31s:
Giving it 15 HP and 15 Defense gives this much more convincing range:
For comparison, a lot of bosses in Gen VII had IVs in permutations of exactly 15 and exactly 31 for different stats, so my best guess is that Gardenia's Roserade here is like that - 15/15?/15/31/15/31? - rather than having straight 31s or straight 15s. (If it also had 15 Special Attack, the rolls it got would still be possible but much rarer - only 1/16 of non-crit Grass Knots could get the 18 damage it got on its first turn.)
If it had an IV of exactly 15 in Speed, it would tie with the player's Monferno, which... unfortunately tells us absolutely nothing solid, but it at least means there's only a 25% chance it would go first on both turns like it did in the video (vs a 100% chance if it had 31). P:
Also for comparison, Gardenia's Roserade in Platinum had IVs of 6 - that's not "6IV," but a spread of 6/6/6/6/6/6 - so her new IVs are definitely higher than before! A low bar, but more in line with the current standard.
On the other hand, Trainers in Gen VII often did have maxed EVs in some stats, and that includes all Trial Captains and all Kahunas, who would have a maxed attacking stat and either maxed Speed or maxed HP at this point in the game; Roserade here definitely does not, so NPCs with EVs will probably either be nonexistent or much rarer than Gen VII, like they were in Sword and Shield.
If it's of any interest:
SM in particular had many, many examples of specifically 15/31/15/31/15/31 as a spread; the first example that shows up is Ilima's Smeargle:
USUM didn't do that kind of alternation quite as often and instead put 31s in specific stats on a case-by-case basis.
(the Attack is not going to be random; we just have no way to know for sure whether it's 15 or 31 yet)
- Roserade and Monferno are both level 22 during the fight, and Roserade's item is a confirmed Sitrus Berry, so this is not factored into damage. Roserade uses Grass Knot twice, taking Monferno's HP from 66 to 48 first, then critting and taking it from 48 to 24.
This is an awful screenshot, sorry, but we also see Monferno's Flame Wheel do this amount back to Roserade:
I was doing some calcs based on the known stats to try and figure out if Roserade had EVs or not, and I found something else in the process:
Roserade doesn't have EVs in Special Attack, but it does have Technician, which I think is actually our first confirmation of Hidden Abilities as well as proof that some bosses will be using them! O:
(I mean, I'm sure HAs would have been in either way because of HOME compatibility, but we didn't know if they would be obtainable before now, so a boss actually using one is interesting news to me!)
The following calcs are using the exact stats of the player's Monferno based on the gameplay recording! The absence of EVs is because it only took IVs to manipulate its stats to the correct numbers, not because I forgot or anything - just being clear on this because I am sure people will assume 0 EVs are inaccurate to an in-game team.
Those match the above stats exactly! ignore Abomasite I use it a lot to make absolutely sure the calc isn't factoring in an item
Without Technician, but even with the greatest possible investment on Roserade, 18 is not a possible roll:
Lvl 22 252+ SpA Roserade Grass Knot (40 BP) vs. Lvl 22 0 HP / 0 SpD Monferno: 13-16 (19.6 - 24.2%) -- possible 5HKO
Possible damage amounts: (13, 13, 14, 14, 14, 14, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 16)
Possible damage amounts: (13, 13, 14, 14, 14, 14, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 16)
However, with Technician:
Lvl 22 0 SpA Technician Roserade Grass Knot (40 BP) vs. Lvl 22 0 HP / 0 SpD Monferno: 15-18 (22.7 - 27.2%) -- 71.3% chance to 4HKO
Possible damage amounts: (15, 15, 15, 16, 16, 16, 16, 17, 17, 17, 17, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18)
it's a perfectly normal one!Possible damage amounts: (15, 15, 15, 16, 16, 16, 16, 17, 17, 17, 17, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18)
0 SpA Technician also makes the crit roll of 24 possible and common:
Lvl 22 0 SpA Technician Roserade Grass Knot (40 BP) vs. Lvl 22 0 HP / 0 SpD Monferno on a critical hit: 23-27 (34.8 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (23, 23, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 25, 25, 25, 26, 26, 26, 27, 27, 27)
Possible damage amounts: (23, 23, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 25, 25, 25, 26, 26, 26, 27, 27, 27)
At the same time, the crit roll expressly deconfirms Special Attack investment, as it makes 24 impossible:
Lvl 22 252 SpA Technician Roserade Grass Knot (40 BP) vs. Lvl 22 0 HP / 0 SpD Monferno on a critical hit: 28-33 (42.4 - 50%) -- 3.5% chance to 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (28, 28, 29, 29, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 31, 31, 32, 32, 33, 33, 33)
Possible damage amounts: (28, 28, 29, 29, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 31, 31, 32, 32, 33, 33, 33)
It's a lot harder to tell exactly how much Flame Wheel did, but my best guess is about 75% to 80%...? which makes me think Roserade probably has imperfect HP and Defense IVs. This is with 31s:
Lvl 22 0 Atk Monferno Flame Wheel vs. Lvl 22 0 HP / 0 Def Roserade: 36-44 (55.3 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I dunno, it could have been doing the higher end here, but I don't think that's right.Giving it 15 HP and 15 Defense gives this much more convincing range:
Lvl 22 0 Atk Monferno Flame Wheel vs. Lvl 22 0 HP / 0 Def Roserade: 42-50 (68.8 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
so I think it's about that.For comparison, a lot of bosses in Gen VII had IVs in permutations of exactly 15 and exactly 31 for different stats, so my best guess is that Gardenia's Roserade here is like that - 15/15?/15/31/15/31? - rather than having straight 31s or straight 15s. (If it also had 15 Special Attack, the rolls it got would still be possible but much rarer - only 1/16 of non-crit Grass Knots could get the 18 damage it got on its first turn.)
If it had an IV of exactly 15 in Speed, it would tie with the player's Monferno, which... unfortunately tells us absolutely nothing solid, but it at least means there's only a 25% chance it would go first on both turns like it did in the video (vs a 100% chance if it had 31). P:
Also for comparison, Gardenia's Roserade in Platinum had IVs of 6 - that's not "6IV," but a spread of 6/6/6/6/6/6 - so her new IVs are definitely higher than before! A low bar, but more in line with the current standard.
On the other hand, Trainers in Gen VII often did have maxed EVs in some stats, and that includes all Trial Captains and all Kahunas, who would have a maxed attacking stat and either maxed Speed or maxed HP at this point in the game; Roserade here definitely does not, so NPCs with EVs will probably either be nonexistent or much rarer than Gen VII, like they were in Sword and Shield.
If it's of any interest:
- Here's the Trainer data from Platinum (source)
- Here's the Trainer data from SM (source: SciresM)
- Here's the Trainer data from USUM (source: SciresM)
- Here's the Trainer data from SwSh (source: doipy hooves here - this one doesn't have IVs but does have EVs marked for all of four Trainers who have them!)
- Here's the Trainer data from SM (source: SciresM)
- Here's the Trainer data from USUM (source: SciresM)
- Here's the Trainer data from SwSh (source: doipy hooves here - this one doesn't have IVs but does have EVs marked for all of four Trainers who have them!)
SM in particular had many, many examples of specifically 15/31/15/31/15/31 as a spread; the first example that shows up is Ilima's Smeargle:
Smeargle (Lv. 10) (Nature: Hasty) (Moves: Ember/Tackle/(None)/(None)) IVs: 15/31/15/31/15/31 EVs: 0/252/0/252/0/0
so that's what I mean when I say it's precedented and a totally plausible spread for Roserade here! and also when I say even early-game bosses had EVs in Alola XPUSUM didn't do that kind of alternation quite as often and instead put 31s in specific stats on a case-by-case basis.
Conclusion:
Gardenia's Roserade has Technician (Hidden Ability), is not EV-trained, and has a probable IV spread of 15/x/15/31/15/31.(the Attack is not going to be random; we just have no way to know for sure whether it's 15 or 31 yet)
But it also has modified Pokémon and moves, and mechanics that weren't present in Platinum (even in the Classic version), which I'd say it's a major turn-off for a ROM hack that claims to be "the same, but more challenging".
Just like good old Gen 4. Enjoy Ubers.
If they're really letting pokemon have IVs &/or EVs again I wonder if it's just limited to aces . iirc the Maylene footage had a Machoke die to a OHKO to a Staravia's wing attack; feels like with some IVs it'd probably have a chance to survive a level 30 Staravia, maybe?
Still if the math bears out that's pretty neat, it was one of the things I liked a lot about the Alola games, and I was disappointed to see SWSH not have it at all aside from 4 total trainers (the 3 "item battle" trainers and Piers' Obstagoon to make up for the lack of dynamax (5 if you count the unused ball guy fight)). Boss aces have it isn't my personal ideal, but it's nice to come back.
And speaking of hidden abilities I wonder what the main method will be to get them. Underground, I guess? Maybe certain statue qualities makes them show up?
Or maybe tie to the pokeradar chains.
Still if the math bears out that's pretty neat, it was one of the things I liked a lot about the Alola games, and I was disappointed to see SWSH not have it at all aside from 4 total trainers (the 3 "item battle" trainers and Piers' Obstagoon to make up for the lack of dynamax (5 if you count the unused ball guy fight)). Boss aces have it isn't my personal ideal, but it's nice to come back.
And speaking of hidden abilities I wonder what the main method will be to get them. Underground, I guess? Maybe certain statue qualities makes them show up?
Or maybe tie to the pokeradar chains.
Renegade Platinum also has updated moves, abilities, and type chart. It's up to date with gen 8.
There's even some gen 3 rom hacks that have the phys / special split, Megas, and all 900 Pokemon. Rom hacks might be built off limited hardware but they really push the boundaries to their limit.
Edit: I misread what you said. I found the updates to put a more exciting spin on it. For the most part classic mode in Ren Plat is pretty much just superior version of OG Platinum, and the full version balances shitmons so you might actually want to raise a Bibarel or Vespiquen.
Just read the upgrade log - https://projectpokemon.org/home/forums/topic/52294-pokémon-renegade-platinum/
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Changes:
Bronzor now has Trick Room - judging by the damage Flame Wheel dealt, it probably is Levitate still (didn't look like Heatproof, although Heavy Metal is an option if they want that for some reason)
Steelix has Earthquake, a MUCH better move compared to Dragon Breath and Ice Fang that it had before (hopefully Gyro Ball still is there to take advantage of Trick Room) - it did appear on Platinum, but not on DP. Keeps Sturdy (which was changed to Rock Head on Platinum, so it didn't take the full moveset).
Bastiodon didn't show any new moves or ability (still Sturdy), but it actually changed something different - the item! Bastiodon on DP used a Chesto Berry with Rest, but now it has a Sitrus Berry, another thing that came from Platinum.
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I am liking the movepool renovations the Gym Leaders got to their Pokemon both between what's being well...revealed...here and in the previous official reveals.
First we see Candice's Abomasnow use Blizzard, a strong Ice STAB which synergizes well with Snow Warning, then we see Roark's Geodude with Rollout, and we also see Maylene's Lucario using Bulk Up, and now we also see Byron's Bronzor with freaking Trick Room and Steelix with Earthquake, especially the former since all of Byron's Pokemon are slow as molasses, which is a great idea.
There's some actual strategy going on here with these Gym Leaders' mons' movesets in BDSP as opposed to DP, and I like it. I like it a lot. I'm not saying the game will automatically be hard because of it, but this means there are some fun strategies going on with these Gym Leaders and this will definitely make them more fun to battle, rather than just random mons with shitty random movesets that I steamroll without a second thought. This will definitely make them a lot more fun to battle than previously, and I like it. The AI is also quite good compared to DP's absolutely atrocious AI and that helps too. Definitely gonna be a fun time battling these Gym Leaders with these nice and useful strategies they are employing and I am here for it.
First we see Candice's Abomasnow use Blizzard, a strong Ice STAB which synergizes well with Snow Warning, then we see Roark's Geodude with Rollout, and we also see Maylene's Lucario using Bulk Up, and now we also see Byron's Bronzor with freaking Trick Room and Steelix with Earthquake, especially the former since all of Byron's Pokemon are slow as molasses, which is a great idea.
There's some actual strategy going on here with these Gym Leaders' mons' movesets in BDSP as opposed to DP, and I like it. I like it a lot. I'm not saying the game will automatically be hard because of it, but this means there are some fun strategies going on with these Gym Leaders and this will definitely make them more fun to battle, rather than just random mons with shitty random movesets that I steamroll without a second thought. This will definitely make them a lot more fun to battle than previously, and I like it. The AI is also quite good compared to DP's absolutely atrocious AI and that helps too. Definitely gonna be a fun time battling these Gym Leaders with these nice and useful strategies they are employing and I am here for it.
These new movesets restoring the feeling.
Also, word on the street is that the floodgates are open. Can't quite confirm it yet, but expect datamines very soon.
Also, word on the street is that the floodgates are open. Can't quite confirm it yet, but expect datamines very soon.
I haven't seen this mentioned here anywhere but the cries for when the Pokémon faint have been updated! They use a variation of the sounds they used to do in Pokémon Amie. It's a small change but I really like it.