Resource ORAS OU Simple Questions, Simple Answers (Read the OP First!)

[Celticpride]

Why is Keldeo S-Rank despite being checked and countered by many common Pokemon?

Now I understand that it's fast, hits hard, and can wear down its checks with Scald burns
but it has many common counters and many checks, including Latios, Celebi, Amoonguss, MegaSaur, Alakazam, Thundurus, Talonflame, Mega Manectric, Vaporeon...and on and on. The Mega Latis and Celebi can even set up on it.

So I fail to understand why Keldeo is that good taking into account its many (very common) counters and checks.

There's basically three reasons imo:

1. Sub and CM give it utility against offensive and defensive teams respectively. Sub also let's you wait to see what they send in, and respond appropriately. Being able to hit of both ends makes it more difficult to check overall.
2. Meta-defining. You need a Keldeo check or you're going to be screwed. This is true with a lot of things, but seems to be true for Keldeo moreso than others. It's also more common because there's no real oppertunity cost associated with it, unlike Megas. Other legends, even Latios, are a step or two below (Latios is slightly lower because reliance on Draco leaves it with less staying power). Keldeo is more difficult to play around than other things because...
3. It can BS past or cripple most of its would be counters with Scald. Latios + Celebi can avoid the 2HKO often, but burn damage + hazard damage and a +1 STAB move racks up quickly. Most of that doesn't even affect Keldeo and the check 1v1, for example a burned Mega Venu stops a decent amount of threats less than a non-burned one. Standard Tank Mega Venu can take any hit from Mega Lopunny comfortably. A burned one? A 2HKO 50% of the time.

That's all imo and does not reflect the views of the Viability Council. Perhaps AM would like to chime in on this if he has the time.

 

[AM]

ShatteredSummers Keldeo's use of Scald which is a no opportunity cost move is found on all of its sets and under the support characteristic in terms of viability the burn chance it has can pretty much make or break games. You can argue that this isn't something exclusive to other Water type users however now we talk about its offensive capabilities such as Sub CM, Scarf, Taunt Life Orb, Specs with its ever changing moveset to accommodate meta trends (think HP Electric for Gyarados, HP Bug for Celebi and Starmie, Icy Wind when the Latis were the primary checks to Keldeo). Being SR resistant is a big factor as it can come in more often than a majority of Pokemon and an offensive behemoth nonetheless, something that holds back such threats like the Zards and Pinsir. Most of your checks and counters you named are simply under the premise that on a good day you're staring at Keldeo 1v1 with nothing prior having occurred yet, which is unrealistic when we take into account factors such as the cores associated with Keldeo, the realistic scenarios that will arise based on team compositions, and the tools that Keldeo and said cores have at their disposal.

Also reiterating Celticprides 2nd point and I brought this up awhile back when ben gay asked me about its ranking at the time (this was before I was on ranking team btw), if you don't have a Keldeo answer or a way to handle it your team is simply not prepared, plain and simple. With all this being said this is why it's S rank. Isn't really a simple answer but you didn't ask a simple question so I guess it's a good read for you and others :p

 

[ShatteredSummers]

Thank you for your answers nontheless.

 

[D. Ros]

In the case of Mega Sharpedo, what are the advantages of Hydro Pump over Waterfall?

 

[heritage]

In the case of Mega Sharpedo, what are the advantages of Hydro Pump over Waterfall?

Hydro Pump hits physical walls like Skarmory harder (and allows it to 2HKO after Stealth Rocks), although the chance to miss is extremely annoying. It's a pick your poison situation.

Hide

0- SpA Mega Sharpedo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 154-183 (46.1 - 54.7%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mega Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 87-103 (26 - 30.8%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

[Kurona]

Can someone explain to me why Ice Punch is a standard move on Mega Lopunny? I understand it lets you beat certain dragons, glis and landoge, but that honestly seems OO material more than anything.

 

[firehusky]

Can someone explain to me why Ice Punch is a standard move on Mega Lopunny? I understand it lets you beat certain dragons, glis and landoge, but that honestly seems OO material more than anything.

Lopunny's most common set is the all out attacking set with HJK and return. Sub and PUP are better options if running drain punch, which leaves 3 moves for the two last moveslots, either fake out, ice punch, or baton pass, all of which are great options. However, on an all out attacking set, coverage is definitely more important imo, which is why ice punch is so common on lopunny.

 

[pika pal]

What are some good offensive/balance answers to Landorus-I? I'm building a team, but the core I have so far is weak to it and I need at least one solid answer.

 

[Kurona]

What are some good offensive/balance answers to Landorus-I? I'm building a team, but the core I have so far is weak to it and I need at least one solid answer.

Weavile and Mamoswine w/ ice shard

 

[SketchUp]

Tornadus-Therian, Gliscor, Celebi, Keldeo, Mamoswine, Mega Lopunny, Latios
Neither of them wins vs. all sets but they check a few sets pretty well

 

[pika pal]

Weavile and Mamoswine w/ ice shard

Tornadus-Therian, Gliscor, Celebi, Keldeo, Mamoswine, Mega Lopunny, Latios
Neither of them wins vs. all sets but they check a few sets pretty well

Thanks. That just leaves me with the matter of Hazard Removal. Zard-X is my Mega and with Weavile I have 2 SR weak members. Currently debating between Scizor, Latios/Latias (though stacking Dragon Weaknesses might not be favorable), Starmie, or Skarmory

 

[boltsandbombers]

Thanks. That just leaves me with the matter of Hazard Removal. Zard-X is my Mega and with Weavile I have 2 SR weak members. Currently debating between Scizor, Latios/Latias (though stacking Dragon Weaknesses might not be favorable), Starmie, or Skarmory

Offensive teams generally dont have that much which can favorably switch into Landorus outside of the lati twins, so revenge killers are your best bet like Weavile / Mamo stated above. Naturally faster Pokemon like Keldeo, Starmie, and the lati twins do fine, but lose to the Rock Polish set set after a bit of prior damage.

 

[firehusky]

If you need a good answer to Landorus-I, and lack a way of hazard removal, Zapdos and Mandibuzz are great answers to it. However, Mandibuzz is more suited to defensive teams. Zapdos is also a great check to Mega Pinsir.

 

[BlazikenBlitz]

I don't know if I should be asking here or in the Viability Thread, but why is Celebi ranked at A, so high on the rankings? Last I knew, it was a pretty mediocre choice of a pokemon to use on teams. What made it improve, and what exactly does it do?

 

[firehusky]

I don't know if I should be asking here or in the Viability Thread, but why is Celebi ranked at A, so high on the rankings? Last I knew, it was a pretty mediocre choice of a pokemon to use on teams. What made it improve, and what exactly does it do?

It's a great answer to non sludge wave lando-i on more balanced teams, counters rotom-w which is quite common, and can run a really effective nasty plot / SD + substitute baton pass set. It also has access to good utility moves such as recover, heal bell, and perish song.

 

[boltsandbombers]

It's a great answer to lando-i on more balanced teams, counters rotom-w which is quite common, and can run a really effective nasty plot / SD + substitute baton pass set. It also has access to good utility moves such as recover, heal bell, and perish song.

No, it is not an answer to Lando-I as Sludge Wave is standard and on almost every single set, even 2HKOing fully specially defensive variants (which are bad dont use them).
What it does do is handle various threats such as Keldeo (a very important one) lacking HP Bug, Azumarill, Mega Diancie, Mega Lopunny, and is incredibly versatile in that it can run a boosting set with baton pass or 2 attacks, a support set with moves like thunder wave / stealth rock / healing wish / etc, and it is one of the few psychic types that can escape Bisharp's pursuit with Baton Pass.

 

[SketchUp]

I don't know if I should be asking here or in the Viability Thread, but why is Celebi ranked at A, so high on the rankings? Last I knew, it was a pretty mediocre choice of a pokemon to use on teams. What made it improve, and what exactly does it do?

The metagame trends were very positive for Celebi. Pokemon like Keldeo, Lopunny and Mega Diancie are very common and Celebi is a very good switchin. It gets many support moves like Thunder Wave, Perish Song and Healing Wish, as well as give offensive pressure with Nasty Plot sets and some more uncommon sets like LO 3 Atks which are all very helpful.

 

[ShatteredSummers]

Any good spreads for standard Spikes/Twave/Magnet Rise Klefki?

 

[AM]

did the showdown servers just go down?

yes

 

[Flamedood]

Hey guys, just wondering about the viability of scarf jynx? I was looking to use it as an anti lead, out speeding and ohkoing common Landorus leads and sleeping anything it can't touch with scarf lovely kiss such as rotom, mamoswine, ferrothorn etc. It can also cripple pink blobs and other defensive walls with trick and out speed +1 dragonite.
Once the scarf is tricked away it can still out speed mons such as Garchomp, Landorus and M-Venasaur.
The set I was looking at was scarf with lovely kiss, trick, ice beam and psyshock.

Is this a viable antilead/ anti stall mon? Is there any reason it's not on the viability rankings? (even though it's nu, usage does not equal viablilty)
Is there a mon that functions in a similar way but completely outclasses it?

Cheers in advance

 

[AM]

Hey guys, just wondering about the viability of scarf jynx? I was looking to use it as an anti lead, out speeding and ohkoing common Landorus leads and sleeping anything it can't touch with scarf lovely kiss such as rotom, mamoswine, ferrothorn etc. It can also cripple pink blobs and other defensive walls with trick and out speed +1 dragonite.
Once the scarf is tricked away it can still out speed mons such as Garchomp, Landorus and M-Venasaur.
The set I was looking at was scarf with lovely kiss, trick, ice beam and psyshock.

Is this a viable antilead/ anti stall mon? Is there any reason it's not on the viability rankings? (even though it's nu, usage does not equal viablilty)
Is there a mon that functions in a similar way but completely outclasses it?

Cheers in advance

The moment you send out Jynx in front of Landorus they're gonna know something is up and more than likely isn't staying in. Jynx also has a pitiful defense stat and typing for OU standards which makes it prone to rocks, every form of priority. The speed factor doesn't count with Dragonite because Dragonite has a priority move with +2 priority and is gonna hit Jynx extremely hard.

252 Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Jynx: 294-347 (108.4 - 128%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Jynx: 197-232 (72.6 - 85.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

This is just based on a general idea not including Adamant nature Dragonites but more or less Jynx is just losing in about every real situation here possible. Also it cripples Chansey by virtue of removing its item, not necessarily a trait that distinguishes itself as unique when you have various other trick users like Scarf Jirachi or Knock Off support by Bisharp and others. Jynx doesn't actually outspeed Garchomp or Landorus as they sit at a higher speed tier and will only beat slower variants of these. These are some of the many reasons why it's not viable and is why it's not on the list. If you're looking for something a bit similar in terms of anti-lead purposes against these ground types Mamoswine is a good choice due to its power and priority with Ice Shard coupled in with its solid attack stat.

 

[celes]

If someone uses Knock Off on a Substitute made by a mon that still has its held item, is it still 97.5 BP or is it just 65 BP?

Any good spreads for standard Spikes/Twave/Magnet Rise Klefki?

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 112 Def / 148 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Dazzling Gleam
- Magnet Rise

This spread avoids a 2HKO from HP Fire coming from the Latis and M-Diancie, can tank 2 Focus Blasts from Modest M-Gardevoir, and it prevents LO Adamant Diggersby from having a real chance to 2HKO you with Return with SR up.

 

[ChipButty]

Ok, this has been bothering me for a while now, but the music doesn't work for me on Showdown anymore and I have no idea why (it used to work when I first installed it).

 

[AM]

Ok, this has been bothering me for a while now, but the music doesn't work for me on Showdown anymore and I have no idea why (it used to work when I first installed it).

Make sure that under your options section (in particular the megaphone next to your name) that the music isn't checked off as "muted"

 

[ChipButty]

Make sure that under your options section (in particular the megaphone next to your name) that the music isn't checked off as "muted"

I've double checked and my music isn't muted.