np: UU - Higher Ground

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

Also:

People probably haven't been thinking of this yet, but it just crossed my mind.

If Rhyperior comes into UU, I'm pretty sure Crobat and Staraptor will BOTH be far from broken. Giving Rhyperior a free attack = terrifying. Hell, even giving Rhyhorn a free attack = scary.

Not to mention people overlook the fact that Rhyperior isn't Dugtrio bait, due to Solid Rock and defenses.

So, if Rhyperior does drop down, that's something to look for.

Your argument is somewhat plausible at first glance, but in reality it doesn't hold much water IMO. For the most, Crobat wasn't deemed broken for the fact that it couldn't be exploited by strong Rock/Steel types. Magneton and, guess who, Rhydon could already do that quite well when Crobat was allowed, but it didn't change the fact that they were overall inferior choices for the metagame they had to compete in, as the usage statistics proved.

As for Staraptor, it is true that Rhyperior has a better chance of taking it on than anything else likely to enter UU in the future, and could make a great check to SubRoost with Rock Blast and/or Roar, but really I don't think it would change the overall perception that Staraptor is frighteningly overpowering for the vast majority of the metagame. After all, besides Solid Rock, everything Rhyperior can do, Rhydon can do almost equally well, as there is very little difference stat-wise. Rhyperior would still have a hell of a time breaking through standard Milotic, for example.

@ Miltank talk: I think Kangaskhan does the Scrappy thing much better in this metagame, so Miltank is far better off using its other amazing ability to stand out. For example, Moltres is way too common a threat to pass up Thick Fat IMO, and reliable counters to that beast are few and far between. That's how I justify it anyway lol. Most people might disagree, but then again I don't see any of the really good players (those that don't just blindly copy from the analysis) use Miltank much if at all anyway.

 

[YaM]

Just a reminder that the current round of testing ends on September 8th and the rating/deviation requirement is 1600/55

Has it ended yet :P

 

[Heysup]

Your argument is somewhat plausible at first glance, but in reality it doesn't hold much water IMO. For the most, Crobat wasn't deemed broken for the fact that it couldn't be exploited by strong Rock/Steel types. Magneton and, guess who, Rhydon could already do that quite well when Crobat was allowed, but it didn't change the fact that they were overall inferior choices for the metagame they had to compete in, as the usage statistics proved.

Well the difference is that Rhyperior is "better" then Rhydon, though not too much better. Rhydon was already tough as hell to switch into, but Rhyperior hits that much harder. Crobat may still be "Broken", but that's because you were forced to use Pokemon like Rhyperior. This helps the case a bit, but I agree it isn't a major argument for unbanning Crobat. It was mainly an argument against the people who said "Rhyperior isn't good", and I was pointing out that in Crobat's (and Staraptor's) metagame, it would be quite dominant.

As for Staraptor, it is true that Rhyperior has a better chance of taking it on than anything else likely to enter UU in the future, and could make a great check to SubRoost with Rock Blast and/or Roar, but really I don't think it would change the overall perception that Staraptor is frighteningly overpowering for the vast majority of the metagame. After all, besides Solid Rock, everything Rhyperior can do, Rhydon can do almost equally well, as there is very little difference stat-wise. Rhyperior would still have a hell of a time breaking through standard Milotic, for example.

Well the difference is Solid Rock in this case, because Close Combat doesn't do as much damage. Rhyperior can even be EV'd to avoid the 2HKO from CC (or just given Protect, for something like Protect / Stone Edge / Earthquake / Megahorn). The difference also with Milotic, is that Rhyperior can actually easily 2HKO Milotic, meaning that Trick Room teams can get passed Milotic. Not to mention Stone Edge has a high Crit%, so after 3-4 switch-ins Milotic is bound to get crit too.

@ Miltank talk: I think Kangaskhan does the Scrappy thing much better in this metagame, so Miltank is far better off using its other amazing ability to stand out. For example, Moltres is way too common a threat to pass up Thick Fat IMO, and reliable counters to that beast are few and far between. That's how I justify it anyway lol. Most people might disagree, but then again I don't see any of the really good players (those that don't just blindly copy from the analysis) use Miltank much if at all anyway.

Yea that makes sense. It just caught me offguard, though Fire Blast did 53%. Your Speed + Thick Fat made me make an -_- face.

 

[franky]

The difference also with Milotic, is that Rhyperior can actually easily 2HKO Milotic, meaning that Trick Room teams can get passed Milotic. Not to mention Stone Edge has a high Crit%, so after 3-4 switch-ins Milotic is bound to get crit too.

As most Pokemon can 2HKO Milotic take it from Azumarill, it can 2HKO with Double-Edge. Similar to Azumarill, Rhyperior lacks the Speed to outpace it and can easily out-recover it or use Surf to OHKO without Sandstorm. Point is it can never 2HKO it 'easily' and critical hit is not a valid argument. Unfortunately, I take back what I say about it being "overhyped" from the previous thread. Most physical walls won't enjoy a beating from a CB Rhyperior. It will be good to see it in this tier, I can see it being broken as Milotic is the only check I can only find. Leafeon is a good check but falls to a 2HKO from CB Stone Edge and fails to OHKO Rhyperior with Leaf Blade even with SR.

 

[Heysup]

Well by "easily" I mean via STAB attack, unlike Azumaril. Plus, Rhyperior can hit Milotic with an EQ, switch out, and when it switches in again Milotic won't have the HP to take a hit. Of course Recover makes not-so-simple, but Milotic will eventually need to Recover with Stealth Rock + EQ damage.

 

[Random Pizzaman]

Looking at the newest batch of statistics, Roserade's possible departure is gonns be HUGE for the UU metagame. Milotic now has it's biggest counter gone, stall loses a valuable asset and is gonna have to stick with Omastar, and overall the best Pokemon in the tier is gone.

 

[YaM]

Roserade's not leaving for another month... Sceptile should rise in usage in response to Roserade leaving.

 

[MagicMaster87]

Looking at the newest batch of statistics, Roserade's possible departure is gonns be HUGE for the UU metagame. Milotic now has it's biggest counter gone, stall loses a valuable asset and is gonna have to stick with Omastar, and overall the best Pokemon in the tier is gone.

Good riddance, I say. Roserade is the biggest pain in butt for me to face, regardless of what team I'm using... Even moreso than stuff like Yanmega or Rain Dance teams.

 

[Toaster]

Looking at the newest batch of statistics, Roserade's possible departure is gonns be HUGE for the UU metagame. Milotic now has it's biggest counter gone, stall loses a valuable asset and is gonna have to stick with Omastar, and overall the best Pokemon in the tier is gone.

i agree,with milotic's biggest counter gone.its gonna make a huge impact to the metagame.milotic will be ruling the metagame after roserades departure, grass types like sceptile will see a good rise in usage.

recent stats also show that rhyperior will arrive to UU soon,but i do wonder how will it pose a threat to the metagame with all those water and grass types running around?

 

[Bluewind]

Everybody seems to be forgetting about Venusaur, who has access to most of the commonly used attacks of Roserade.
Access to Sludge Bomb, Leaf Storm, Sleep Powder and Synthesis means that Venusaur can run the same LO set as Roserade, with worse SpA and Speed, but better overall defenses and different abilities. Of course the scarf sets would take a huge hit falling from a 95 Spe base to 80, something Venusaur can't do much about and that would be up to Sceptile to try to somehow replace.
Of course the power and speed drop would be significant, and Natural Cure is the hell of a great trait, but this seems the closest another grass poke will get from Roserade.

 

[dekzeh]

Can we ban Yanmega already? :/

Anyway, no other grass-type can come close Roserade, sure you can have the faster Sceptile, or the overall bulkier Venusaur, but in the end they are just not as good.

Copying Roserade's Life Orb with Venusaur makes no sense for me: it is nowhere near as threatening as it can barely scratch Chansey/Registeel while Roserade would do around 35% damage easily.

Life Orb Rosie was a good stall-breaker, and (for me) that was the selling point of the set, why exactly would I run that on something as weak as Venusaur >__>

 

[Heysup]

That's the biggest reason I don't want to see Roserade gone. The Life Orb set was actually able to KO Chansey one on one. While Venusaur is bulkier, you lose too much power and speed.

However Choice Scarf Roserade is slightly easier to replace, as is the Spiker. People won't have trouble using Cloyster or Omastar to Spike.

 

[blasphemy1]

As most Pokemon can 2HKO Milotic take it from Azumarill, it can 2HKO with Double-Edge. Similar to Azumarill, Rhyperior lacks the Speed to outpace it and can easily out-recover it or use Surf to OHKO without Sandstorm. Point is it can never 2HKO it 'easily' and critical hit is not a valid argument. Unfortunately, I take back what I say about it being "overhyped" from the previous thread. Most physical walls won't enjoy a beating from a CB Rhyperior. It will be good to see it in this tier, I can see it being broken as Milotic is the only check I can only find. Leafeon is a good check but falls to a 2HKO from CB Stone Edge and fails to OHKO Rhyperior with Leaf Blade even with SR.

Both Donphan and Torterra handle Rhyperior more easily than Milotic. Toterra resists Stone Edge and Earthquake, while Donphan has the resistance to Stone Edge. Torterra only fears Avalanche, Megahorn, and Fire Punch, but those are easily predicted around, and as an initial switchin, it doesn't get any better than Torterra(or maybe even Claydol).

SD Venusaur isn't a replacement for Roserade, but it can break down walls, using Sleep Powder to disable something like Registeel or Steelix, and STAB Seed Bomb for Chansey and Regirock. Venusaur should do fine as a grass type.

 

[B-Lulz]

It sucks this testing period ended as this metagame looks like it developing into something really fun to play.

 

[Thund91]

It sucks this testing period ended as this metagame looks like it developing into something really fun to play.

Actually I felt it started getting rather stale this month. Is it just me?

 

[dekzeh]

Agree with Thund.

A few 'innovative', creative, forgotten sets were used more, but then even those become 'standard', and after a while it was everything the same.

Pretty boring for me.

 

[Thund91]

Agree with Thund.

A few 'innovative', creative, forgotten sets were used more, but then even those become 'standard', and after a while it was everything the same.

Pretty boring for me.

Thank you.

For example, CB Kanga. Always been around but was just recently made popular. Shot up, now it's standard.

 

[Erazor]

Maybe it's because everyone was focussed on stopping Yanmega.

 

[Heysup]

The metagame (itself) rarely gets boring for me, as there are so many options. If you are bored of winning (or in some cases, possibly even losing) with the same team in the same way, make a new one! I've made 3 teams in this metagame, experimenting with different Pokemon that aren't used much (Charizard/CMLO Espy/Magmortar etc). It makes it hard to make UU dull.

However I understand what you guys mean, I seem to be facing the same teams/people over an over again and it gets annoying / boring. I think the real issue is that not a lot of challenging players are on at the same time. I've only battled Dekzeh like 3-4 times....lame. That's more a ladder issue then metagame issue IMO.

 

[Kalec]

Roserade, Yanmega, Registeel, and Milotic are too damn common. Heres to hoping the next tier changes bring in some fresh blood.

 

[LonelyNess]

It's funny that we all think that the tier is getting rather stale when in fact it's the most diverse of the three ladders... I'd love to know what you guys think of the OU tier or god forbid the Uber tier.(even though I agree the tale end of the month was just... ugh horrid)

 

[Erazor]

If it gets boring, be innovative. I used Pikachu in the last week or so, and it was really enjoyable. Go make a team of NUs or something.

 

[whistle]

yeah lol it's kind of interesting how the uncommon and innovative sets at the beginning of august (cb kanga, physical houndooms, leafeon, even specs yanmega) have become the standard at the end of the test. erazor and heysup are completely right -- i got really bored with using the same style of offensive team a week or two ago and started playing around with stall (which i usually hate) and even hail and sand. it's possible to make ridiculous sets and ideas work in uu (moreso than in ou at least) which is why uu is atm my favorite metagame. there are still tons of pokemon that aren't used much and lots of my teams seem to be weak to... gardevoir, ampharos, manectric, magmortar, jynx, etc.

 

[Thund91]

yeah lol it's kind of interesting how the uncommon and innovative sets at the beginning of august (cb kanga, physical houndooms, leafeon, even specs yanmega) have become the standard at the end of the test. erazor and heysup are completely right -- i got really bored with using the same style of offensive team a week or two ago and started playing around with stall (which i usually hate) and even hail and sand. it's possible to make ridiculous sets and ideas work in uu (moreso than in ou at least) which is why uu is atm my favorite metagame. there are still tons of pokemon that aren't used much and lots of my teams seem to be weak to... gardevoir, ampharos, manectric, magmortar, jynx, etc.

Hehe yes we chatted about some of this. :P

And Heysup trust me, I make atleast a few teams everyday lol. I made a new one with Ampharos and I just love it, really underrated threat. The problem is that most people just use the standards because they're the best. There's nothing wrong with that its just that it makes battles kinda dull when you have the deal with the same pokes over and over. Like Ambipom leads are really annoying. Not that they're difficult just that they're so predictable. I actually get really happy when I see a Jynx, Girafarig, or heck, even a fellow Lopunny lead, beause it usually leads to more fun matches.

 

[Stagnant]

Well, speak for yourselves. I can argue that I use the most diverse teams in UU including uses of Jynx (who is freaking amazing), Mixdoom, Wigglytuff... and so on. Last night I had so many sweeps with SD Jumpluff it was ridiculous. With most teams I make I can keep a healthy win record to. From my perspective, everyone realitively uses the same team and its rather boring...

I wish there was NU and Little Cup ladders...