Staraptor, Raikou, Abomasnow, Gallade, and Froslass all were voted out at the same time. Staraptor (18-1) and Abomasnow (18-2) were pretty unanimous in their BL votes, but Raikou (11-8), Gallade (11-7), and Froslass (10-9) were quite close. If it was questionable then that Raikou was broken, Dugtrio and Donphan's addition makes it even more questionable now.
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np: UU - Higher Ground
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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is the reason we want to retest really that "dugtrio can check and donphan is a counter"? if so, I must be missing something because both of those seem like pretty bad reasons to retest something that was voted BL. dugtrio can check a shitton of the top uu threats but it's still not being used which proves that just because it has arena trap and a stab earthquake doesn't make it a good pokemon to just stick on a team. donphan, really? even with a slightly specially bulky spread (which is somewhat of a misnomer because I believe the "standard" is now 52-ish HP which means changing it to 252/40 is a *very* large shift of EVs) it can be 2hkoed with a little bit of residual damage which means raikou will clear its own way on its second switch-in, unless you don't plan on using your donphan until I reveal my raikou. taking an unboosted hit of 45%+ without reliable recovery isn't what I like my counters to do ~_~.
now I'm not opposed to retesting; I just don't think "we added two ground types" is a very convincing argument. I think a better one is just that there is a somewhat large chance that due to the way the metagame has evolved since February and the close votes for three of the suspects, there is a possibility that they fit better in this metagame. plus we could have screwed up the votes last time. if I'm not mistaken there's not a very concrete formula for what should be retested and what shouldn't, so why not give it a try?
@ LR:
Shuca Raikou actually beats Donphan:
EQ vs 68/0 Shuca Raikou: 372 Atk vs 186 Def & 338 HP (100 Base Power): 216 - 255 (63.91% - 75.44%)
+1 HP vs 252/40 Donphan: 295 Atk vs 166 Def & 384 HP (100 Base Power): 256 - 302 (66.67% - 78.65%)
It has a bit of a harder time against Jolly CB Dugtrio, although "standard" EVs can easily be changed around to accommodate specific team needs...
CB EQ vs 68/0 Shuca Raikou: 508 Atk vs 186 Def & 338 HP (100 Base Power): 294 - 346 (86.98% - 102.37%)
regarding the Abomasnow / Froslass issue: if both of them turned out to be okay by themselves but were broken together, I would lean towards banning Abomasnow because it's ability is what makes Froslass's Snow Cloak and 100% accurate Blizzards "activate". I'd assume the issue with both of them together would be something related to one of those two, because otherwise either Abomasnow or Froslass alone would be broken.
on a completely random note, your bit about gallade reminded me of the (slight) possibility that heracross may one day drop into UU territory. heh stall.
now I'm not opposed to retesting; I just don't think "we added two ground types" is a very convincing argument. I think a better one is just that there is a somewhat large chance that due to the way the metagame has evolved since February and the close votes for three of the suspects, there is a possibility that they fit better in this metagame. plus we could have screwed up the votes last time. if I'm not mistaken there's not a very concrete formula for what should be retested and what shouldn't, so why not give it a try?
@ LR:
Shuca Raikou actually beats Donphan:
EQ vs 68/0 Shuca Raikou: 372 Atk vs 186 Def & 338 HP (100 Base Power): 216 - 255 (63.91% - 75.44%)
+1 HP vs 252/40 Donphan: 295 Atk vs 166 Def & 384 HP (100 Base Power): 256 - 302 (66.67% - 78.65%)
It has a bit of a harder time against Jolly CB Dugtrio, although "standard" EVs can easily be changed around to accommodate specific team needs...
CB EQ vs 68/0 Shuca Raikou: 508 Atk vs 186 Def & 338 HP (100 Base Power): 294 - 346 (86.98% - 102.37%)
regarding the Abomasnow / Froslass issue: if both of them turned out to be okay by themselves but were broken together, I would lean towards banning Abomasnow because it's ability is what makes Froslass's Snow Cloak and 100% accurate Blizzards "activate". I'd assume the issue with both of them together would be something related to one of those two, because otherwise either Abomasnow or Froslass alone would be broken.
on a completely random note, your bit about gallade reminded me of the (slight) possibility that heracross may one day drop into UU territory. heh stall.
@ whistle
Its not so much about "adding 2 ground resist", its the addition of two more checks if you think of it that way. Take it from a different pespective, Chomp coming back to OU because of "2 new pokemon" who can counter chomp. Thats a legit reason to why it should be re tested again, I myself am curious to see how they fare will in this tier, especially Raikou. Raikou is checked by Venusaur, Steelix, Donphan, Dugtrio and Chansey depending on the set. There are still a couple but, the point is the counters / check list expanded, which is convincing enough to re-test Raikou
Its not so much about "adding 2 ground resist", its the addition of two more checks if you think of it that way. Take it from a different pespective, Chomp coming back to OU because of "2 new pokemon" who can counter chomp. Thats a legit reason to why it should be re tested again, I myself am curious to see how they fare will in this tier, especially Raikou. Raikou is checked by Venusaur, Steelix, Donphan, Dugtrio and Chansey depending on the set. There are still a couple but, the point is the counters / check list expanded, which is convincing enough to re-test Raikou
HP Water. I never thought I'd hear anyone find a use for that.
This is an extremely poor stance to be taking on the test. The way you speak you make it seem like preparing "at all" for a Pokemon is overcentralization. Well, tough truth mate, sweepers usually need some sort of check on a team otherwise they sweep you, surprisingsly. Refusing to run a check for a top threat is both stubborn and rather silly.
Firstly, I didn't say that the only reason Raikou could be UU is because two new Ground-types have been added to the tier. If you reread my post, you'll find I say in more words that the addition of two new checks to add onto the lengthy list of checks already present in the tier may be enough to impact on voting for Raikou enough to make another test worth it. I mentioned just the handful of checks off the top of my head in my last post, but since you seem to think Dugtrio ("who sucks") and Donphan ("that is okay") are the only things that can stop Raikou, I'm going to try and make an exhaustive list of checks for Raikou that are already viable Pokemon in UU, so you can't go call "overcentralization" despite how silly the argument is:
- Absol - LO Sucker Punch does an average of 76% to 68/0 Raikou. Check.
- Ambipom - does an average of 44% to 68/0 Raikou with Fake Out, speed ties and so can follow up with a subsequent STAB attack to take Raikou out if it wins the speed tie, can potentially use Double Hit to destroy Raikou's sub and then hit it for another 38%. Check.
- Azumarill - does an average of 49% with CB Aqua Jet. Check.
- Chansey - brings any Raikou set to a complete halt. Good counter.
- Claydol - with a once Calm Minded Hidden Power Ice, Raikou only manages an average of 42.5% against a 252/176+ Claydol. In return, with an uninvested Earthquake, Claydol does an average of 65.7% to Raikou. Counter.
- Clefable - can survive Raikou's boosted attacks easily and Encore a Calm Mind or Substitute for a free setup on another Pokemon. Good check.
- Donphan - gone over already, having it on your team is good insurance against Raikou (but is not, I want to point out again, the only check for Raikou in the tier!). Good check.
- Dugtrio - gone over already, massive threat to Raikou. Good check.
- Hitmontop - Technitop's Fake Out followed by Mach Punch does an average of 76% to Raikou, and funnily enough Raikou's Thunderbolt manages only 42% on 252/0 Hitmontop (62.5% from +1). Technitop can switch in on Raikou and guarantee to take it out if it stays in. Counter.
- Honchkrow - Honchkrow's LO Sucker Punch does 74% average damage to Raikou. Check.
- Lanturn - if Raikou isn't running HP Grass it will struggle greatly vs it. Lanturn can't handle Sub Raikou quite as well as it can LO Raikou, against who it can Thunder Wave / Confuse Ray / Surf away as LO damage adds on as well until Raikou goes down. Check.
- Nidoqueen - is bulky enough to take even super effective HPs and does big damage in return with Earthquake. Check.
- Regirock - isn't 2HKOed by +1 Thunderbolt, 2HKOes with unboosted Earthquake in return. That's outside of sandstorm. Counter.
- Registeel - isn't 3HKOed by +1 Thunderbolt, can do significant damage back with Seismic Toss. Check.
- Sceptile - outspeeds Raikou, 4/0 version not OHKOed by +1 HP Ice on average, physical versions can easily 2HKO back with Earthquake. Check.
- Steelix - takes an average of 27% from a +1 neutral Hidden Power, and if Raikou wants to run a SE one it will lose coverage on a lot of other notable Pokemon. In return, an uninvested Earthquake does on average 77% in return. Good check.
So really, you have no obligation to run the sucky Dugtrio or the okay Donphan. The vast majority of the tier can check the different forms of Raikou - Sub CM versions will have a lot of trouble with the bulkier Pokemon, whereas offensive LO versions will be much much more vulnerable to priority (they will take more than the damages I've listed, since those were against a Sub CM Raikou, and LO Raikou runs less HP and will be weakened by LO as well). I've not even mentioned the multitude of Scarf X Pokemon that can check Raikou just as easily, nor have I started on Raikou's massive vulnerability to Spikes and Toxic Spikes (both of which are very common in UU if you didn't know). I'd say there are far more viable checks for Raikou in UU than there are for Lucario in OU. Is running 40 Special Defense EVs on Donphan, a tank Pokemon, more "overcentralization" than running a +Speed nature and 216 Speed EVs on Gliscor in OU, a similar tank Pokemon?
Don't get me wrong, I think Raikou is an excellent Pokemon and can be a big threat if played right, but the laziness and indifference of your post made me want to point out that not only does it have a hell of a lot of viable checks in UU as it is, but also that all I am saying is that it should be tested again. Seeing as I haven't had any first hand experience of how it will fare in the new metagame, and I only have my opinion of it from 4 months ago, I don't even currently think it is UU material! But I'm willing to have a look at it again and reassess its UU potential in light of the significant metagame changes that have occurred (you honestly can't argue this) since it last saw play in the tier. Raikou was originally only voted BL by a very close 11-8-1; is it really too much to suggest we simply look at this Pokemon's tier status again?
Completely agree with LR here, the term 'overcentralization' means next to nothing these days. Not to say that it can't happen, but you would know if it did, i.e. you get Uber-like usage statistics, and believe me when I say that Raikou caused nothing of the sort. Many of the arguments against Raikou included the 'fact' that you were forced to use overspecialized Pokemon such as Camerupt and Quagsire, which just screamed of desperation given that such Pokemon were nowhere to be found. I actually found it quite ironic that Quagsire only saw a significant amount of usage just after Raikou's banning.
I see where you're coming from, but I have to disagree. The isolation testing method might've worked best for OU, but that doesn't mean it is best for UU. I would prefer to test all that we decide to test together first, then move on to isolation testing where we see fit.
Fair enough you make your point. I'd rather not test to let anything back in until after the next UU tier change gets settled.
What is our current situation with retesting and the 3 month period with UU tier changes? It sounds like people want to make a decision.
Lets see here. Leafeon, Tangrowth, and Sceptile don't have the defenses to take boosted Thunderbolts, and if Sceptile is a special attacking variant it can set up on it anyway. Roserade is helpless against it because she only uses Special Attacks. Venusaur is also set up bait if it's a special version. Torterra is annoying but it's just as annoying to Grass/Ground sets. Water is nice if you need a move to hit both Steelix, Donphan, and Dugtrio. I'd actually say Steelix is one of the biggest threats to Raikou because most run Special Defense and can take a +1 Hidden Power easily and 2HKO with Earthquake.
Water is also 4x SE against Camerupt, who was used to counter Raikou a while ago. And it still gets the SE hit on Nidoqueen, Claydol, etc..
If you bother to calc it you see those 3 will beat Thunderbolt HP Water Raikou one-on-one. And there's also Venusaur..
116 SpA Thunderbolt vs 0/0 Leafeon (SDer) = 33.95% - 39.85%
+1 116 SpA Thunderbolt vs 0/0 Leafeon (SDer) = 50.55% - 59.41%
With SR factored in and since the SDer usually carries LO, Leafeon is gonna struggle taking on Raikou.
116 SpA Thunderbolt vs 4/0 Sceptile = 26.24% - 30.85%
+1 116 SpA Thunderbolt vs 4/0 Sceptile = 39.36% - 46.10%
So Sceptile can make a decent check if it's physical, but last I checked most were Scarf/Speced and abuse Leaf Storm. If Raikou subs on the switch to Sceptile it's not gonna be pretty.
116 SpA Thunderbolt vs 252/0 Tangrowth = 27.72% - 32.43%
+1 116 SpA Thunderbolt vs 252/0 Tangrowth = 41.34% - 48.51%
So if you have EQ you can beat Raikou one on one, but you'll end up with a nearly dead Tangrowth. If your only physical attack is Power Whip, you have a slight chance to 2HKO, but it's shaky accuracy can be annoying.
I mentioned Venusaur. If it's physical and healthy enough, it wins. If it's special, it's set up bait. Most people won't switch a grasser straight into Raikou until they scout and see if it doesn't carry HP Ice, and by that time Raikou has enough boosts to beat them one-on-one. Obviously if it uses Electric/Water it'll lose most of the time to physical Grass-types, but (to me) being able to hit Donphan/Steelix with one move is much better then hitting something like Leafeon/Tangrowth who aren't as common.
+1 116 SpA Thunderbolt vs 0/0 Leafeon (SDer) = 50.55% - 59.41%
With SR factored in and since the SDer usually carries LO, Leafeon is gonna struggle taking on Raikou.
116 SpA Thunderbolt vs 4/0 Sceptile = 26.24% - 30.85%
+1 116 SpA Thunderbolt vs 4/0 Sceptile = 39.36% - 46.10%
So Sceptile can make a decent check if it's physical, but last I checked most were Scarf/Speced and abuse Leaf Storm. If Raikou subs on the switch to Sceptile it's not gonna be pretty.
116 SpA Thunderbolt vs 252/0 Tangrowth = 27.72% - 32.43%
+1 116 SpA Thunderbolt vs 252/0 Tangrowth = 41.34% - 48.51%
So if you have EQ you can beat Raikou one on one, but you'll end up with a nearly dead Tangrowth. If your only physical attack is Power Whip, you have a slight chance to 2HKO, but it's shaky accuracy can be annoying.
I mentioned Venusaur. If it's physical and healthy enough, it wins. If it's special, it's set up bait. Most people won't switch a grasser straight into Raikou until they scout and see if it doesn't carry HP Ice, and by that time Raikou has enough boosts to beat them one-on-one. Obviously if it uses Electric/Water it'll lose most of the time to physical Grass-types, but (to me) being able to hit Donphan/Steelix with one move is much better then hitting something like Leafeon/Tangrowth who aren't as common.
I'm not going to bring up retesting until after the next tier list is released (October). If nothing drops down then we can talk about it. But for now I'd just hold off on this discussion. Why don't we discuss the metagame as it is and not how it might be if something is retested?
ok...............
I'm using an anti-lead drapion it works great. But not sure 'bout EVs
*fondly reminisces about first team, using lead Drapion, AKA Slasher*
On topic, Yanmega is an absolute BASTARD. If you're not running him on an offensive team, you're a fool. The only viable counters I can seem to find are Chansey (who I would not use except on a stall team, due to the fact that she's set-up bait) and Mr. Mime. I run Psychic/Thunderbolt/DS, and it seems to work quite well. I haven't seen a Shadow Ball variant.
Drapion@Lumberry(/Lefties)
Jolly nature
Battle armor
252 hp/42 att/216 speed
>T-spikes
>Taunt
>Crunch
>EQ
This set is what I'm using. Works great :). Taunt the lead (except Ambipom, and electrode which is no use) and then t-spike up. Roserade fails easily to this set since Jolly + 216 Speed EVs outrun it. And even if Roserade's scarfed. Drapion got a lumberry to fix himself up. Crunch (dark)+ EQ (Ground) gives good coverage... Dunno 'bout all EVs though. Only those speed EVs are really needed..........
@note: Registeel's a great counter for Yanmega too <_<'
Just run Seismic toss + Shadowclaw instead of Ironhead + Explosion. Works great, no att. EVs needed. So you can invest even more in defences.....
Why is no one prepared for SubCharge Rotom? It has won me so many battles that I should have probably lost, it's getting a bit ridiculous.
Rotom @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Charge Beam
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt (works better than HP Fighting in my experience)
It really amazes me how big of a threat SubCBeam Rotom is, and it seems no one carries anything to stop it. It's so easy to come in with its awesome typing, and once the Sub goes up, it's only a matter of time before the opponent's switch-in goes down. Especially when the opponent relies on Pokemon like Registeel and Steelix to stop Rotom, leaving their team open to threats like Torterra and Blaziken/Magmortar.
Speaking of Magmortar, people need to start using him, especially when they are all bitching about Yanmega (it makes a half-decent check). Magmortar is more deadly than even Blaziken in this metagame, imo (that's coming from me...) because of its special bulk. With its above average Speed, monstrous SpA, and the game winning Thunderbolt, Magmortar is too hard to stop.
Magmortar @ Life Orb
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 64 Atk / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
Mild Nature (+SpA, -Def)
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Cross Chop
- Hidden Power Ice
It 2HKOes almost everything with Fire Blast + (instert SE Attack). For example, Milotic:
Fire Blast:
383 Atk vs 286 Def & 394 HP (120 Base Power): 111 - 132 (28.17% - 33.50%)
Followed by Thunderbolt:
383 Atk vs 286 Def & 394 HP (95 Base Power): 238 - 280 (60.41% - 71.07%)
If Milotic comes in with any less then 94%, then it will be OHKOed no matter what the damage roll is, while it still has a very slim chance to survive.
But does it even need to rely on not getting the Worst possible damage rolls?
Milotic's surf vs Magmortar:
236 Atk vs 226 Def & 291 HP (95 Base Power): 216 - 254 (74.23% - 87.29%)
Doesn't OHKO as long as you switch Magmortar into the Pokemon while its using Stealth Rock (such as Registeel, Donphan, Steelix, etc).
I don't even need to do calcs for Slowbro, but just for fun here is Thunderbolt:
383 Atk vs 196 Def & 394 HP (95 Base Power): 346 - 408 (87.82% - 103.55%)
Yea. It OHKOes Slowbro with Stealth Rock. Impressive eh?
Of course it also beats Chansey:
Fire Blast: (29.49% - 34.79%)
Cross Chop: (64.27% - 75.82%)
Always with SR. (well like 99% of the time..)
Now Yanmega....
Well Magmortar obviously OHKOes it with Thunderbolt, but the big question is: Does Magmortar really survive a Specs Tinted Lens Bug Buzz?
546 Atk vs 226 Def & 291 HP (90 Base Power): 234 - 276 (80.41% - 94.85%)
Again, yes it survives an attack, making Magmortar a "decent" back-up check for Yanmega (it obviously shouldn't be your primary check, but its there if you are desperate).
So yea, SubCharge Rotom + Magmortar are huge, and for some reason underrated threats to the metagame.
Just my 2 cents.
And Rhyperior might be joining UU soon...wow.
Rotom @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Charge Beam
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt (works better than HP Fighting in my experience)
It really amazes me how big of a threat SubCBeam Rotom is, and it seems no one carries anything to stop it. It's so easy to come in with its awesome typing, and once the Sub goes up, it's only a matter of time before the opponent's switch-in goes down. Especially when the opponent relies on Pokemon like Registeel and Steelix to stop Rotom, leaving their team open to threats like Torterra and Blaziken/Magmortar.
Speaking of Magmortar, people need to start using him, especially when they are all bitching about Yanmega (it makes a half-decent check). Magmortar is more deadly than even Blaziken in this metagame, imo (that's coming from me...) because of its special bulk. With its above average Speed, monstrous SpA, and the game winning Thunderbolt, Magmortar is too hard to stop.
Magmortar @ Life Orb
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 64 Atk / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
Mild Nature (+SpA, -Def)
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Cross Chop
- Hidden Power Ice
It 2HKOes almost everything with Fire Blast + (instert SE Attack). For example, Milotic:
Fire Blast:
383 Atk vs 286 Def & 394 HP (120 Base Power): 111 - 132 (28.17% - 33.50%)
Followed by Thunderbolt:
383 Atk vs 286 Def & 394 HP (95 Base Power): 238 - 280 (60.41% - 71.07%)
If Milotic comes in with any less then 94%, then it will be OHKOed no matter what the damage roll is, while it still has a very slim chance to survive.
But does it even need to rely on not getting the Worst possible damage rolls?
Milotic's surf vs Magmortar:
236 Atk vs 226 Def & 291 HP (95 Base Power): 216 - 254 (74.23% - 87.29%)
Doesn't OHKO as long as you switch Magmortar into the Pokemon while its using Stealth Rock (such as Registeel, Donphan, Steelix, etc).
I don't even need to do calcs for Slowbro, but just for fun here is Thunderbolt:
383 Atk vs 196 Def & 394 HP (95 Base Power): 346 - 408 (87.82% - 103.55%)
Yea. It OHKOes Slowbro with Stealth Rock. Impressive eh?
Of course it also beats Chansey:
Fire Blast: (29.49% - 34.79%)
Cross Chop: (64.27% - 75.82%)
Always with SR. (well like 99% of the time..)
Now Yanmega....
Well Magmortar obviously OHKOes it with Thunderbolt, but the big question is: Does Magmortar really survive a Specs Tinted Lens Bug Buzz?
546 Atk vs 226 Def & 291 HP (90 Base Power): 234 - 276 (80.41% - 94.85%)
Again, yes it survives an attack, making Magmortar a "decent" back-up check for Yanmega (it obviously shouldn't be your primary check, but its there if you are desperate).
So yea, SubCharge Rotom + Magmortar are huge, and for some reason underrated threats to the metagame.
Just my 2 cents.
And Rhyperior might be joining UU soon...wow.
People here are forgetting that Raikou has Signal Beam. So Thunderbolt, Hidden Power Water and Signal Beam is just perfect to hit whatever you need to, hitting Steelix,Camerupt, Donphan, Claydol and any grass type with a SE attack.
Still, there's things Raikou can't get through, but they are abvious ones like Chansey, Venusaur with EQ, Regirock...
Still, there's things Raikou can't get through, but they are abvious ones like Chansey, Venusaur with EQ, Regirock...
The point is that Substitute and Calm Mind are the other 2 moves.
I've been running a specstile as my shaymin replacement with leaf storm, hidden power fire, dragon pulse, energy ball. Leaf storm pwns anything without a grass resist, hidden power fire is for yanmega and registeel switchins, dragon pulse is for altaria, and grass knot is for final sweeping. Modest makes it a real powerfull force. I team him up with yanmega, since he threatens milotic and most chanseys switch out fearing subseed.
Yeah, Magmortar can be quite devastating at times, particularly against certain stall combinations. It has a harder time with the likes of Miltank, Hariyama and Lanturn, but it fares much better than Blaziken against Milotic and Altaria (both staples on stall teams these days, especially Milotic, whilst the three aforementioned Pokemon are rare on such teams) thanks to Thunderbolt, which hits Milotic with greater force whilst freeing up the Hidden Power slot for Ice.
However, I still think Blaziken is better overall, though I have much less experience with them than you do. The Fighting STAB and higher Attack makes such a difference, and the strong priority gives Blaziken some versatility when battling more offensive teams that Magmortar kinda lacks. Plus you have to consider that with such reckless wallbreakers in an entry-hazard happy environment, sometimes you only get 1 or 2 chances to make an impact, which really puts pressure on your prediction skills. Magmortar's SR weakness is quite a significant disadvantage when you look at it this way.
Also, you say that Magmortar is a decent check for Yanmega, but that is only at almost full health without taking any SR damage previously. Most players will want to have SR up first before launching a Yanmega rampage for several reasons, Moltres being one of them. Blaziken can actually check Specs Yanmega better than Magmortar most of the time thanks to its 4x Bug resistance, which completely overrides the lack of special bulk. Now you might say that Yanmega won't always be using Bug Buzz, which is true, but they will be about 90% of the time, so it is by far the most common attack you'll be facing when coming in on a sacrifice or whatever.
On an unrelated note, the Shoddy statistics have got me really looking forward to the next month or two with the suspect voting and tier changes, it promises to be the most radical shake-up yet. Not sure if I'll make the voting requirements this time though, I've been messing around and experimenting an awful lot, but it wouldn't bother me too much as I don't strongly consider anything to be all that broken (well, possibly Yanmega...).
Alot of people have been using it lately and alot of good UU players have already prepared themselves. In fact, the reason I see more Steelix is to check Rotom. So Hidden Power Fighting is probably a better option over Thunderbolt from my experience. Still hits Registeel and Chansey hard anyways, while hurting Steelix.
Most, from my experience (other than yours, lol, which is why it caught me offguard that one battle) use scrappy, meaning either way Fire Blast will dent it.
Overall, yes I agree. But in this specific metagame I think Magmortar is more dangerous for the sole reason of Milotic's presence. You don't see much Hariyama, Miltank, etc. because of Yanmega as well. You see more Milotic than anything really. Not to mention Magmortar can survive a Sludge bomb from LOrade.Lemmiwinks said:
However I feel silly telling you this, as you seem to be using what people don't expect to see, and use that to your advantage. (This seems to work well for you too :O)
I realize that, but I did mean that it can only "deal" with Yanmega. I should have emphasized its power versus LOMega, because that's what it deals with much more effectively then other sweepers.Lemmi said:
Also:
People probably haven't been thinking of this yet, but it just crossed my mind.
If Rhyperior comes into UU, I'm pretty sure Crobat and Staraptor will BOTH be far from broken. Giving Rhyperior a free attack = terrifying. Hell, even giving Rhyhorn a free attack = scary.
Not to mention people overlook the fact that Rhyperior isn't Dugtrio bait, due to Solid Rock and defenses.
So, if Rhyperior does drop down, that's something to look for.
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