Monotype Viability Rankings

[Dece1t]

Guys this is starting to derail a bit, just let Anttya and iVid make a decision on it.

 

[average fella]

that's a good idea, also heres another nomination now that i've fooled around w it for a while, i was initially doubtful when you put it into the vr without anyone having actually used it but where it is is actually good.
(btw all the ice sprites in the vr are broken except for like 2)
Regice for D rank

BSS Rank (Regice) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Charge Beam
- Focus Blast
- Ancient Power

I initially ran this as a pure meme set (s/o to Omastar68) but as it turns out it actually fills a role as a slightly bulkier piloswine with no sr, no roar, different coverage, and it hits on a different side. Don't take this as an outright endorsement, it's dead weight in quite a few matchups and I'd prefer Piloswine most times, but Charge Beam setups against Mono-Water pivots such as Slowbro that provide you problems is pretty damn good. I've only used this outside of Froslass teams, but this (probably with Thunderbolt) is an alternative to the Lapras/Froslass "troll Keldeo" core seeing as scalds do virtually nothing.

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Scald vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Regice: 70-84 (19.2 - 23.1%) -- possible 5HKO

It's also a way to beat Giga Drain Volcarona at +1 without Walrein or Piloswine (after SR, and bear in mind that it, like every other Volcarona counterplay on Ice, tends to not work if you fail to keep rocks up).

+1 252 SpA Volcarona Fiery Dance vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Regice: 146-174 (40.2 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Regice Ancient Power vs. +1 72 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 156-184 (47.4 - 55.9%) -- 69.9% chance to 2HKO

Bear in mind this doesn't hit particularly hard, has zero good resists for team synergy, and has almost no physical bulk to speak of. God damn if it doesn't take special hits like nothing else though.

the set in action

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-376790393
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-376782720
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-376820388 - in the same replay shows how good regice's special bulk is and how bad its phys bulk is
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-376833739 - one of many many mons that does nothing in the steel matchup, bear that in mind

alternatively here's a dual status set that i haven't tested but thought was cool, regice is the bulkiest ice type twave user allowed in mono. also the evs may or may not be good

Regice @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic

 

[Entei]

I'm gonna have to agree with Purply's ranking suggestion regarding Articuno.

It does not deserve D/C ranks as it is an alternative Hazard Control(Unblockable too) that can also grants support with Heal Bell, and with Water teams, as it does have access to Freeze-Dry.

I think B is the perfect rank for it, I don't have anything else to add Purply kind a summed everything up, just felt like I should back him up, cause I do support his suggestion.

 

[StarBlim]

Relicanth Unranked -> D Rank

Relicanth @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Head Smash
- Bulldoze / Yawn
- Rain Dance

Relicanth Provides as a Decent suicide lead for swift swim water. Haveing the access to Head smash and Rain dance Makes it good support For preserving Politoed So it might not have to take alot of damage before late game. Having rocks is always helpful, but having Empoleon as a rocks setter or lead won't support swift swim water imo as much as relicanth will, the goal of SS Water is Sweep so having something that isnt great for momentum will just kill the potential to sweep while Relicanth will set rocks, head smash or rain dance and die. After a rain dance is up and reli is gone it will clear a path for mons early on to get heavy damage against you opponent.

 

[Deku Prince]

Why is Florges in C Rank?

 

[all falls down]

Why is Florges in C Rank?

All of its niches are outclassed. Wish Cleric by Sylveon, Calm Mind by Clefable. It should be D quite honestly

 

[Broccol1]

After doing the Ice set compendium, I've seen a couple of questionable ranks for mons.

I think this is extremely niche, Avalugg is a much better option for hazard control, the only thing I really see defensive Cryo providing is situational counterplay to Magnezone as the only "switchin" to Scarf Flash Cannon+Volt Switch.
252 SpA Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cryogonal: 152-182 (44.1 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Dual screens is super niche, I would use dual screens Rotom-F with 0- Speed 0 IV Speed Volt Switch for a screens pivot before I would use Cryogonal, it's fairly difficult to screens while maintaining momentum, especially when even with a Reflect up, Cryogonal still fears physical attacks. Additionally, it has 4MSS, it can't run dual screens, spin, boom, and freeze-dry. I think it's D rank.

I don't understand why this is B ranked. Like, not at all. It provides very little good defensive synergy with a defensive set (252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Articuno: 207-244 (53.9 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) while adding an additional weakness to Electric (i.e. Volt Switch is that much more threatening to you) and a 4x Rock weakness (not as bad as one may think but makes its Defogging job a lot harder), as well as the Scarf set being an arguably worse Kyurem-B in both of the matchups it's supposedly good in (Water and Fighting), in which Fusion Bolt+Outrage are better wincons than Hurricane/Freeze-Dry (gets outsped by scarf Terrakion as well as Hurricane being unreliable, 252 SpA Articuno Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 204-240 (63.1 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO i.e. doesnt kill Water's wincon). I think it's either low C or D ranked.

May as well give this an analysis, it's higher than D rank (although D was probably just a preliminary ranking) s/o to waszap for reminding me that this has no analysis

Aurorus for C rank
Aurorus is one of the best suicide leads Ice has, as well as being one of your counterplays to unsuspecting Scizors that don't know what Aurorus runs. It's capable of allowing you to use your Mamo for something useful, while maintaining your ability to lay lead Stealth Rock, while being able to break sashes in lead with Snow Warning, while being able to use Thunder Wave like Froslass.

Aurorus @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 152 HP / 252 SpA / 104 Spe
Modest Nature
- Blizzard
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
- Encore

Ripped straight from Broccol1's team, it's essentially the gold standard set. Speed to outspeed uninvested base 70s, hits as hard as possible, and is more bulky than one may expect.

I disagree with the C ranking decision for Glalie, it's basically one of your best counterplays to the Normal core, Mixed Defensive Twave Clefable, Specially Defensive Mew, the Dark core in general (252+ Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Explosion vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bisharp: 273-322 (100.7 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO, 252 Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Explosion vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bisharp: 249-294 (91.8 - 108.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock i.e. it kills Bisharp with boom), the Grass core, and any defensive Flying archetype (idk if people still run that but it's something you can do). I've also got some fair mileage out of it in the Ground matchup, it beats every conventional lead Ground has to throw at you, as well as the Protect set being able to stall out sand. I think it's B rank.

These reflect my thoughts about the ice ranking so well.
- Articuno is definitely not B and i hate to say this coz i like the mon itself but its pretty much utter garbage. Some1 could say that you needed it to beat fighting but tbh you shouldnt win against fighting regardless of your team and you shouldnt try to build your ice team to counter fighting (which is literally impossible) but to counter as many other types as possible.

- Aurorus on the other hand is way more solid than people think and it should be at least C or maybe even B, just because from my experience it gets the leading job done better than Froslass.

- Mega Glalie is way better than "C". As you said it can destroy walls that would be almost impossible to ice. And of course we can compare it to Mega Obama, which I think is ranked pretty high as B but it will do. Mega "B" Glalie definitely approved.

Ty average Fella for trying to do something about these terrible ice rankings :)

 

[Vid]

Mega Gallade Fighting S-->A & Mega Gallade Psyshic A--->B

Mega Gallade is very good Swords Dance sweeper sure it but it is often outclassed by Mega Medicham which is an amazing wallbreaker and posses the same exact typing as well. The issue with Mega Gallade also has a very situational ability in inner focus which sure sometimes can come in handy against Mega Medicham, but most of the type it is stuck with no ability. Mega Gallade often finds itself lacking a coverage move to sweep through teams or it lacks priority if chooses one of coverage moves it has (Ice Punch, Stone Edge, Thunder Punch). On Fighting teams Psyshic STAB is needed due to the fact that fighting teams don't have many ways to hit poison types so Zen Headbutt or Psycho Cut is pretty much required taking up a precious slot in its moveset. Mega Gallade does have a good speed tier to back itself up being 110 being able to outspeed the common base 100's and being able to speed tie with Pokemon like Gengar and Lati@s. On fighting it also almost always needs to run Knock off to do some damage to Mew + Slowbro core. On Psyshic it has a problem because of many good Pokemon on Psyshic Type teams similarly to Deoxys-S and Deoxys-D which don't fit on the team and are really good on paper but not so good in practice. On Psyshic teams it usually runs Shadow Sneak which outside of Gengar doesn't check much compared to Medicham's Bullet Punch. Mega Gallade is simply outclassed by Mega Medicham and didn't evolve with the metagame that well unlike Medicham did so it should be ranked down 1 rank for each type to show that it isn't the best mega option to use on Psyshic and Fighting.

 

[Zap]

Mega Gallade Fighting S-->A & Mega Gallade Psyshic A--->B

Mega Gallade is very good Swords Dance sweeper sure it but it is often outclassed by Mega Medicham which is an amazing wallbreaker and posses the same exact typing as well. The issue with Mega Gallade also has a very situational ability in inner focus which sure sometimes can come in handy against Mega Medicham, but most of the type it is stuck with no ability. Mega Gallade often finds itself lacking a coverage move to sweep through teams or it lacks priority if chooses one of coverage moves it has (Ice Punch, Stone Edge, Thunder Punch). On Fighting teams Psyshic STAB is needed due to the fact that fighting teams don't have many ways to hit poison types so Zen Headbutt or Psycho Cut is pretty much required taking up a precious slot in its moveset. Mega Gallade does have a good speed tier to back itself up being 110 being able to outspeed the common base 100's and being able to speed tie with Pokemon like Gengar and Lati@s. On fighting it also almost always needs to run Knock off to do some damage to Mew + Slowbro core. On Psyshic it has a problem because of many good Pokemon on Psyshic Type teams similarly to Deoxys-S and Deoxys-D which don't fit on the team and are really good on paper but not so good in practice. On Psyshic teams it usually runs Shadow Sneak which outside of Gengar doesn't check much compared to Medicham's Bullet Punch. Mega Gallade is simply outclassed by Mega Medicham and didn't evolve with the metagame that well unlike Medicham did so it should be ranked down 1 rank for each type to show that it isn't the best mega option to use on Psyshic and Fighting.

Personally I dont see mega gallade being outclassed, it fulfills a similar role to mega medicham on fighting, the one main difference between them is immediate power vs setup power. Swords Dance is the main reason people use gallade over medicham, boosting its attack to sweeping potential. Gallade, unlike medicham also doesnt get completely walled by certain mons like doublade, slowbro, and m.sableye, (unless running thunderpunch for bro) whereas gallade can get hits off on them (knock off, or a +2 knock off/shadow sneak) (ik it doesnt do much vs m.sab but atleast theres no repercussion for cc unlike using hjk). Also having a speed tier of 110 is actually very crucial for some matchups, speed tieing with the latis, mega diancie, outspeeding mega pinsir, and gengar as you mentioned. Also, having that bit more bulk than cham allows it to setup easier, to get that SD off. I do agree about ur point of its ability not being that useful, but I do have to mention its able to survive a scarf togekiss airslash and can hit back with ice punch, can also be a check to a jirachi, and can come clutch vs excadrill using iron head or a lopunny fake out (last 2 not that important but just had to mention).

tl;dr mega gallade and mega medicham on fighting both fulfill similar roles, one with setup power and one with immediate power respectively. I dont think one outclasses the other, but rather they fulfill the same roles with different approaches. I think it should stay as S.

 

[Tyke]

Just a small suggestion for grass.

Shiftry C-rank -> B-rank
I feel that Shiftry's access to powerful priority in sucker punch and overall powerful Dark STAB warrants a spot in B rank. Knock off and Sucker Punch find usage in nearly every type match up, especially helping against Psychic, a peevesome match up for grass. That alone would make me consider a higher rank, but combined with Shiftry's access to hazard control (something nothing else on grass besides Tropius has) and the ability Chlorophyll to counter fire teams gives it what it needs to be put on the same level as Rotom-Mow and Celebi.

 

[Crimson Torrent]

Just a small suggestion for grass.
Shiftry C-rank -> B-rank
I feel that Shiftry's access to powerful priority in sucker punch and overall powerful Dark STAB warrants a spot in B rank. Knock off and Sucker Punch find usage in nearly every type match up, especially helping against Psychic, a peevesome match up for grass. That alone would make me consider a higher rank, but combined with Shiftry's access to hazard control (something nothing else on grass besides Tropius has) and the ability Chlorophyll to counter fire teams gives it what it needs to be put on the same level as Rotom-Mow and Celebi.

I think Shiftry is good on C-rank tbh. On paper it seems like it'd be pretty useful, but it really doesn't provide as much as the B rank and up 'mons do. It really doesn't help against psychic all that much considering how predictable Sucker Punch can be and how most things can one-shot Shiftry while Shiftry can't do the same back. Mew can easily burn it as well considering many mews run enough speed and even if not, can take a hit.
The hazard control is fairly useless as well considering how frail Shiftry is and Grass doesn't mind hazards too much considering they can just heal up the damage and set their own hazards to put the other team in the same boat or to force the other team to defog.
Chlorophyll + Rock Slide is a useful tactic though against fire teams, but that alone I wouldn't say is good enough to put in B rank.

 

[juleocesar]

Just a small suggestion for grass.
Shiftry C-rank -> B-rank
I feel that Shiftry's access to powerful priority in sucker punch and overall powerful Dark STAB warrants a spot in B rank. Knock off and Sucker Punch find usage in nearly every type match up, especially helping against Psychic, a peevesome match up for grass. That alone would make me consider a higher rank, but combined with Shiftry's access to hazard control (something nothing else on grass besides Tropius has) and the ability Chlorophyll to counter fire teams gives it what it needs to be put on the same level as Rotom-Mow and Celebi.

I am not really sure about this, actually. I've discussed this with Crimson and we agreed it would be better having it at C. Although Shiftry does handle Fire and Psychic to a certain extent, it still has to run specific sets to run those types effectively. (Probably something with Swords Dance and Lum Berry would be the best for Psychic, and Rock Slide is an absolute must for handling Fire or else you are better off with something else). Besides, Shiftry doesn't really cover anything else aside of those you have mentioned. Sucker Punch is a semi-reliable priority but still involves a lot of mindgames, and lastly, Shiftry kinda lacks the utility that B ranked mons have: Rotom can pivot and burn its opponents with Will-o-Wisp, and Celebi has a wide movepool and Natural Cure, allowing it to effectively absorb status effects. You mention Defog as an utility, but as Crimson Torrent has said, it doesn't offer much to Grass teams in the sense that it often comes at the cost of Shiftry's life and that you are better having something else rather than hazard removal.

Edit: Wasn't this discussed before already?

 

[Anttya]

I'm quitting soon, so transferring ownership to iVid

Tagging scpinion to lock this.