xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
Its normal size for me...I had a hard time finding a mini one. if you can grab me one i will replace it, just post here.
Its where everybody else put it, and it is quite effective tbh.
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Mix-and-Mega — Now with Primals!
- Thread starter FlameUser64
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I agree- itd be really easy with the sheer number of threats there are, too. I do feel terak should move up, but it should actually wait until the meta has had some time.
Some thoughts-
Giratina doesn't seem worthy of a B to me- it just doesn't have the power in Origin, or any recovery outside lefties for Altered. I see it more like a C.
Goth seems pretty much just bad to me. I mean, I love using it in OU, but the problem is, it's just so much weaker and slower then gar, and it isn't particularly bulky either. I feel like it should be more like a C. If there's a reason that it's higher, by all means, let me know. I'm just kinda doubtful atm.
You should put flygon in D rank, just for kicks. And bibarel. And Jynx, and butterfree. Just for fun.
Jokes aside (although you could throw those on there, if you really want), I'd put pidgeot in D. It isn't great in OU even, and now that just tons of stuff can do exactly what it does only better, I guess you could use it, but there's no reason to.
I'm not sure diggersby should be at A+. At least from what I've been told, it's really not all that you expect it to be. Probably because, 1, it falls just short of 100 spe, and 2, it's pretty fail. I think A- is probably better.
Altaria should be at D, maybe C at best. We all know how good Altaria is in OU, but it's basically just straight up outclassed by dragonite and even kinda salamence. It has literally nothing going for it other than natural cure pre-mega and cotton guard. That's not really enough to be worth it.
Add pidgeotite to gengars stones. No guard hypnosis trolls the whole freaking world. Magic bounce is annoying, but that's avoidable. Also, it's got perfectly accurate focus blast (kinda an oxymoron) to complement shadow ball flawlessly.
Keldeo needs to be A/A+. I don't get B at all. The amount of power it packs is insane, and we all know how great it's stabs are together. And it even can go mixed w/ secret sword. I know we don't want to overcrowd things, but this is one that I really disagree with.
I'm not so sure about mawile at B. It seems kinda outclassed to me. By a lot of stuff actually. I'm feeling somewhere in the C range. I don't think it's even a B in regular ubers, let alone here. If there's a specific reason it's so high, by all means, let me know.
What does shaymin even do???
Khanga should probably move down. A- seems kinda high to me. I'm not sure, but that's just my thoughts
Blaziken seems like it should be an obvious A. It's such a powerhouse once it gets going. 160 Atk and speed boost is no joke. As soon as it's checks are out of the way, GG bruh.
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
Giratina is very, very bulky on both sides and can serve as a nice emergency check to many threats. idk, I'd like to see it in action.
Goth is meh but being able to abuse gengarite gives it a significant niche. Its not outclassed by gengar because its bulky and has psychic typing, allowing it to more easily trap things like chansey. I'm inclined to leave it in C, but yeah.
lol
Pidgeot probably just shouldn't be on there tbh. It has literally zero niche, and as a result its pretty much E. D rank is used for mons that have usage due to being able to fill a very specific niche, although they struggle to do ANYTHING beyond that. Pidgeot has literally no niche to begin with.
Diggersby is actually REALLY good in my experience. Its power is amazing and leaves it unchecked, not to mention it is a great abuser of quick attack for normal priority. agility sets are absolutely devastating against offense.
Altaria fits the D rank perfectly, since it has the very specific niche of cotton guard.
Can do.
Keldeo will probably go up. A-/A is a good place for it because it does require team support to beat all the priority, and there are things that wall it in this meta, so yeah...subcm sets are unwallable, however, and I think that warrants A rank. I really don't know why it was in B, i just didn't really pay a second thought when copying things over.
idk why mawile was there, but it was. will move it l8r.
Shaymin has the niche of seed flare, which when backed by anything to boost it is absolutely TERRIFYING. Many possible sets with it. Its not like its ridiculously good, but it has a very high ceiling when used properly.
Kanga runs its own mega stone, and parental bond is just as aids as it is in ubers. Its not exactly amazing, but it is very good at breaking down balance/fat teams. A- may be a little high, so i'll let somebody else weigh in.
Blaze is probably more like A- or B+. It has a LOT of checks in this meta, since priority spam is everywhere on offense and stall can usually wall it or stop it from setting up. The meta just isn't that friendly to it imo.
I dunno whether Gothitelle is actually viable or not, but it is worth commentary that it overlaps pretty badly with Mega Gengar in its vulnerabilities, since they are both vulnerable to Dark and Ghost, so someone prepared for Mega Gengar may well be incidentally prepared for Gengarite Gothitelle. Gothitelle also normally leans heavily on Trick, which is worthless if you're Gengarite Gothitelle. (And questionable when most Pokémon will be un-Trickable regardless) I suspect it will struggle to be relevant, bulk and unusual typing or no. It's not even that much more bulky than Gengar anyway.
To respond to a general discussion that was going on earlier: No, Ubers as a whole won't be banned. This meta was approved as an Ubers-based meta, not OU, and Ubers don't hugely negatively impact the relevance of Mega Stone abusers anyway. The closest to a legitimate concern pointed out is that Mewtwo is probably the best recipient for Mewtonite Y, granting it a hilarious BST at little opportunity cost, and that's not really much of a concern to me. (No, Mewtonite X is not best off put on Mewtwo. It provides that ridiculous Attack boost precisely because Mewtwo is normally too oriented toward Special. Put Mewtonite X on something that actually wants to go Physical) I have difficulty imagining even banning Mewtwo/Mewtwonite Y from Mewtwo.
The fact that Groudon is one of the best recipients for the Red Orb isn't a bad thing, either. There's still Red Orb recipients that fill totally different roles from Groudon, and frankly a lot of Pokémon are largely invalidated by other, better abusers of various Mega Stones (eg Dragonite is Altaria's superior in almost every way), so arguing Primal Groudon invalidates Z OU Pokémon isn't going to get my attention unless there's literally nothing else stepping on that Pokémon's toes.
Re: Aggron. Yeah, the code currently has it add Steel typing. This is now the official stance. I know the OP hasn't been updated, but that's because Flameuser64 has been gone for literally months. It's getting to the point that I'm wondering if I need to contact a mod. (Whether to simply edit the OP or to lock this thread while I start a new one, I dunno)
Also tagging Pikachuun. Other people have noted that stats/damage outcomes are not always consistent, and Magikarp can apparently use an Orb. (My guess is that the Orb transformations in specific are what bypass the "no NFE" rule)
To respond to a general discussion that was going on earlier: No, Ubers as a whole won't be banned. This meta was approved as an Ubers-based meta, not OU, and Ubers don't hugely negatively impact the relevance of Mega Stone abusers anyway. The closest to a legitimate concern pointed out is that Mewtwo is probably the best recipient for Mewtonite Y, granting it a hilarious BST at little opportunity cost, and that's not really much of a concern to me. (No, Mewtonite X is not best off put on Mewtwo. It provides that ridiculous Attack boost precisely because Mewtwo is normally too oriented toward Special. Put Mewtonite X on something that actually wants to go Physical) I have difficulty imagining even banning Mewtwo/Mewtwonite Y from Mewtwo.
The fact that Groudon is one of the best recipients for the Red Orb isn't a bad thing, either. There's still Red Orb recipients that fill totally different roles from Groudon, and frankly a lot of Pokémon are largely invalidated by other, better abusers of various Mega Stones (eg Dragonite is Altaria's superior in almost every way), so arguing Primal Groudon invalidates Z OU Pokémon isn't going to get my attention unless there's literally nothing else stepping on that Pokémon's toes.
Re: Aggron. Yeah, the code currently has it add Steel typing. This is now the official stance. I know the OP hasn't been updated, but that's because Flameuser64 has been gone for literally months. It's getting to the point that I'm wondering if I need to contact a mod. (Whether to simply edit the OP or to lock this thread while I start a new one, I dunno)
Also tagging Pikachuun. Other people have noted that stats/damage outcomes are not always consistent, and Magikarp can apparently use an Orb. (My guess is that the Orb transformations in specific are what bypass the "no NFE" rule)
I think a new thread would be preferable- that way stuff like viability rankings can all be in one spot, and can be readily edited and stuff. Only problem is, I've seen a lot of reboot threads that die pretty quick, which would totally suck.
canno
formerly The Reptile
The difference between Gengar holding a Gengarite and Goth holding the same stone is that Goth doesn't need to wait to activate Shadow Tag. It can Mega Evolve and do whatever it wants on the mon it wants to trap (basically). Its has a pretty decent bulk of 70/105/130 (which, I might add, is a number more bulkier than Mega Gengar's 60/80/95), hits hard enough with 135 to smack shit and eliminate whatever it needs to, and enough speed to outspeed stallmons, which is what it will primarily capture. Sure, its not as good as Mega Gengar (who I deem as an S-Rank mon, mind you). However, the fact that it has Shadow Tag at the start rather than having to wait for it, and the fact that its stats and movepool are decent enough to do its job (eliminate a key mon on the opposing team) make me think that not only is it viable but it also has a niche over M-Gengar. If it were I'd put it in A- or B-rank (yes, Shadow Tag is that strong of an ability. Hell I would even consider Wobb's around low C-Rank tbh)
Pikachuun
the entire waruda machine
Okay guys, I fixed both bugs that were mentioned earlier, which are
Reposting the code link so it can be updated more easily
and pretty much the one complaint that everyone's been talking about; that megas lose their stat changes on switch-out [I just needed to move a piece of code for this one].
Reposting the code link so it can be updated more easily
That's actually a really good point- I was actually wondering why it really even deserved a rank at all, but I guess I missed that. However, I'm still not so sure it should be in the B to A range. I think C is fair, not because it's bad, but because other than that, Mega Gengar strictly outclasses it really. And not just by a little bit, but by a long shot. It's way faster, hits way harder, and it's not a psychic, which is really pretty bad typing in general. Gengar also resists pixispeed, so it's speed is really useful in a lot of instances. Goth won't be outspeeding hardly anything in this meta, and it's bulk isn't that great for ubers, so it's going to have to really pick and choose what it wants to kill a lot more carefully. A lot of dark types and stuff can use goth as setup fodder after goth takes out some threat, which they would be much more hesitant to attempt against Gar because of destiny bond/ perish song and focus blast.
Played around with some Latiosite and Latiasite sets, Raikou with Latias gets levitate, 90/105/105/145/120/115, a cute movepool with calm mind setup and adequate bulk
electivire with Latios gets levitate, 75/163/87/125/95/95, switch in on electric moves for motor drive and begin a mixed sweep with massive attack
Magmortar can also use one or the other for some bulk and power
electivire with Latios gets levitate, 75/163/87/125/95/95, switch in on electric moves for motor drive and begin a mixed sweep with massive attack
Magmortar can also use one or the other for some bulk and power
Magmortar would be completely pointless. It is just straight up outclassed by a lot of stuff, heatran is a decent example. Is just a bit slower, but it hits harder, has a better typing, and has way more bulk. It doesn't have the same movepool, but it's much better overall.
Electivire is a much better example, as it has no weaknesses and a heck of a lot of power. It's still pretty frail, but it'd be quite a wallbreaker. It's not that fast either, but it's faster than a lot of walls.
Raikou is a great option. It's fast, hits hard, and really does have a really good movepool and pretty good bulk. It can also use manectite to straight up outclass mega mane in every way.
Magmortar isn't pointless itself but giving it a Latias/Latias mega isn't its best bet by a long shot. It fits Cameruptite, or CharY/Red Orb much better.
It is though. Not because it's bad, but because there's no reason to use it over a bunch of other stuff. Even with the stuff you listed. Not just like they're better for most teams, they're just straight up better. There is honestly no reason to use magmortar. It is just bad. There's a reason it's NU, while so many other fire types are higher: even relatively similar ones, stat distribution wise. Seriously- I see no reason to use it when tran is an option.
Okay guys, don't let this die- we've been doing awesome thus far.
Here's a cool idea I just came up with, basically just because I want chesnaught to be viable in every meta:
Chesnaught @ Aggronite
Ability: bulletproof
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe (not optimal)
Careful nature (probs)
Spiky shield
Synthesis
Leech seed / spikes
Knock off / iron head / wood hammer
Basically fills the role of ferro in OU, as ferro will be ever so slightly different than it usually is played. It also has the niche of spiky shield and synthesis, which ferro would love. Filter is nice for defensive stuff like Ches, though it still won't be taking any fire type attacks.
Another fun idea, because Chesnaught is amazing, and offensive Ches is even better:
Chesnaught @ Metagrossite/Absolite
Ability: bullet proof
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / SpD
Jolly Nature
Belly drum
Drain Punch
Stone Edge / Wood Hammer / Iron Head
Substitute / Wood Hammer / Filler
Good old subsalac BD Ches... Minus the sub (possibly) and the salac part, but a lot faster. The mega stone comes down to preference, however, something that boosts your speed by a lot is necessary. You could even use diancite, but then you're really weak to priority and have 0 special bulk. You're best bet when playing this particular set is to set up once there is nothing that can outspeed you at this very instant and the opposing team lacks priority, esp. AteSpeeds. 104 Spe isn't insane, but it's enough to put some work in. Also, Ches can easily bluff a defensive set, lure out its usually checks/counters, then smash them to bits w/ a +6 drain punch/ coverage of any sort. Sub works well w/ metagrossite to secure the sweep, however it's kinda redundant w/ Absolite, which can secure a sweep because of magic bounce, but lacks the power/bulk of metagrossite. Again, diancite is an option if you're insane, as it provides the best of these two, not to mention more speed, which is awesome.
Here's a cool idea I just came up with, basically just because I want chesnaught to be viable in every meta:
Chesnaught @ Aggronite
Ability: bulletproof
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe (not optimal)
Careful nature (probs)
Spiky shield
Synthesis
Leech seed / spikes
Knock off / iron head / wood hammer
Basically fills the role of ferro in OU, as ferro will be ever so slightly different than it usually is played. It also has the niche of spiky shield and synthesis, which ferro would love. Filter is nice for defensive stuff like Ches, though it still won't be taking any fire type attacks.
Another fun idea, because Chesnaught is amazing, and offensive Ches is even better:
Chesnaught @ Metagrossite/Absolite
Ability: bullet proof
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / SpD
Jolly Nature
Belly drum
Drain Punch
Stone Edge / Wood Hammer / Iron Head
Substitute / Wood Hammer / Filler
Good old subsalac BD Ches... Minus the sub (possibly) and the salac part, but a lot faster. The mega stone comes down to preference, however, something that boosts your speed by a lot is necessary. You could even use diancite, but then you're really weak to priority and have 0 special bulk. You're best bet when playing this particular set is to set up once there is nothing that can outspeed you at this very instant and the opposing team lacks priority, esp. AteSpeeds. 104 Spe isn't insane, but it's enough to put some work in. Also, Ches can easily bluff a defensive set, lure out its usually checks/counters, then smash them to bits w/ a +6 drain punch/ coverage of any sort. Sub works well w/ metagrossite to secure the sweep, however it's kinda redundant w/ Absolite, which can secure a sweep because of magic bounce, but lacks the power/bulk of metagrossite. Again, diancite is an option if you're insane, as it provides the best of these two, not to mention more speed, which is awesome.
I don't believe there is a council- it's basically just Ghoul King, although the thread was created by flame user, but he's dead (Oh, and that was me who suggested it :]). However, blaziken is not a lesser uber. It is like A+ in ubers rn, and giving it another stone would be insane. Genesect could be an option, Greninja could, aegislash would probably be broken af, skymin could possibly, and idk what else. The Deos could possibly (S&D), but they could very well be too much. I think we're this to be implemented, first we'd need to suspect lando t, then we should start by suspecting greninja, then Genesect, (or visa versa), then skymin. After that the Deos and aegis, probably in that order. Aegis could just be absolutely insane w/ some stuff; w/ sablenite it's speed drops, but it gets magic bounce, still has priority, In blade form it gets 160 Atk and 170 SpA, and gets 100 defenses, and If left in shield form, it gets 200 defenses w/ magic bounce, albeit very little offensive presence, but it could play according to the match and become two completely different Pokemon essentially. Granted, this isn't accounting for the fact that it still only gets 4 moves to play w/, but it still would be too diverse for its own good. That's just the first that came to mind honestly, it could be very good w/ metagrosssite, diancite would be suicide, but absolutely horrific to face at the same time in blade form, or it could become a sort of middle ground b/t blade and shield if left in shield form, but w/ 120 Spe and magic bounce, which works well w/ king shield, so a fast swords dance set could be decent, etc.. Yeah, I think it'd just be too much.
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I have not gotten around to assembling a council, initially due to the lack of play and then due to suddenly not existing. Since I haven't been to Aqua myself, and nobody's been posting replays, I don't even know who has the best sense of the meta, just the people who post in this thread most, so assembling a council would be problematic.
I will say for the moment that I'm willing to consider cases where Ubers are highly dependent on their Ability to be overly powerful -Greninja and Shaymin-Sky, for instance, are in Ubers primarily on the basis of their Abilities, and even though Shaymin-Sky wouldn't say "no" to Pideotite you at least wouldn't have to worry about the flinch-hax train. (Blaziken can still benefit from its Ability post-Mega Evolution, so it's not actually an example that would be on the table)
Overall I'd prefer to avoid doing so, just because the meta is very confusing to a lot of players as-is and I don't want to be layering additional confusion on, but it's potentially acceptable.
I will note that Aegislash would be potentially OK, but not Deoxys. I'm personally not a fan of the idea of Deoxys-Attack taking Sablenite and suddenly increasing its durability by something over 100%, or maybe taking Aggronite to also extend its lifespan, or anything else like that. (Keep in mind it does get Recover, it just normally is far too fragile to get any use out of it -this wouldn't necessarily remain true) Deoxys-Defense with Mega Stones alarms me too, in all honesty, though less straightforwardly. Aegislash would be OK because using a Mega Stone would be an extremely narrow gimmick, and in particular anything dependent on getting into Blade Forme first would be really clunky, limiting its potential. (Which does not mean there isn't some broken thing I'm overlooking)
I will say for the moment that I'm willing to consider cases where Ubers are highly dependent on their Ability to be overly powerful -Greninja and Shaymin-Sky, for instance, are in Ubers primarily on the basis of their Abilities, and even though Shaymin-Sky wouldn't say "no" to Pideotite you at least wouldn't have to worry about the flinch-hax train. (Blaziken can still benefit from its Ability post-Mega Evolution, so it's not actually an example that would be on the table)
Overall I'd prefer to avoid doing so, just because the meta is very confusing to a lot of players as-is and I don't want to be layering additional confusion on, but it's potentially acceptable.
I will note that Aegislash would be potentially OK, but not Deoxys. I'm personally not a fan of the idea of Deoxys-Attack taking Sablenite and suddenly increasing its durability by something over 100%, or maybe taking Aggronite to also extend its lifespan, or anything else like that. (Keep in mind it does get Recover, it just normally is far too fragile to get any use out of it -this wouldn't necessarily remain true) Deoxys-Defense with Mega Stones alarms me too, in all honesty, though less straightforwardly. Aegislash would be OK because using a Mega Stone would be an extremely narrow gimmick, and in particular anything dependent on getting into Blade Forme first would be really clunky, limiting its potential. (Which does not mean there isn't some broken thing I'm overlooking)
Funbot28
Banned deucer.
Red Orb Roserade is quite good in my experience.
Here is a better sprite
And I feel Keldeo should be ranked in A, as it is a great check to Glalieite Weavile. Lucarionite Keldeo hits like a monster, practically 2HKOing half the meta, while also having access to Secret Sword for Red Orb users
I agree w/ Deo A/N, but not really aegislash. Yeah, it'd be kinda clunky, but it'd be insane if you could just keep it up long enough to get into blade form, which shouldn't be hard, and it'd be still good w/ certain sets if you kept it in shield. It'd have the same problem it has always had (ridiculous unpredictability), only amplified. I can't honestly see it being justifiable.
Edit: tbh, Deo D would be the biggest concern of mine, it would be absolutely ridiculous w/ quite a few things, specifically banettite and sablenite. Offensive Deo D could even be a thing w/ banettite... TF. Yeah, well, Deo S probs wouldn't be so bad, especially w/ all this priority that's available. However, it still may be too much.
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Ghoul King , I would honestly say that me Ransei and xJownage have the best handle on the meta, as we have all played multiple games. I have posted a few here in the thread, you'll have to look for them though. What we really need is for this to get july's OMOTM so we can expand our playerbase.
So this post isn't completely useless, i'm nominating Entei for A rank. As an ate-speeder its really solid and what can switch in on it really doesn't like burns. It has quite solid bulk with pinsirite, and fire/flying is not too bad of a typing, just keep defog support.
As an addon, with summertime here, I am now availible for battles anytime during the week. Just send me a PM and let me know. I have plenty of stuff to try out and want to help others try stuff out too.
So this post isn't completely useless, i'm nominating Entei for A rank. As an ate-speeder its really solid and what can switch in on it really doesn't like burns. It has quite solid bulk with pinsirite, and fire/flying is not too bad of a typing, just keep defog support.
As an addon, with summertime here, I am now availible for battles anytime during the week. Just send me a PM and let me know. I have plenty of stuff to try out and want to help others try stuff out too.
I'm up for it. I'm going to post some stuff tomorrow about both landorus and try to talk about a few other things.
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
Updated viability rankings at last, fixed and moved a bunch of things. Ghoul King you are the authority on this meta for now, so if you want to create a council just do it. Also, MaestroDeSWAG should be the 5th member of the council, he has proved very intelligent in this metagame and has made several great posts on this thread in terms of contribution.
Alright, time to start some (hopeful) discussion.
First off, nominating Regirock to B rank. As a mixed wall/tank with tyranitarite, Regirock performs quite well, tanking hits on both ends of the spectrum with 80/240/120 bulk backed up by sandstorm. Regirock is also no sitting duck with a decent base 130 attack, and STAB stone edge. It can also perform a support role with access to stealth rock and thunder wave as it is almost garunteed to get off at least one of those. It also functions as a hard check to any victini not running grass or fighting coverage, easily tanking v-create, and threatening back with a stone edge. It also can run steelixite instead if sand has been provided already. However, I cannot put it in A rank due to common weaknesses and the fact that it is very slow with no reliable recovery(drain punch does not count).
Next, nominating Pangoro for C rank. With bannetite attached to it, kung-fu panda becomes the only user of a priority switching move in the game. As a bonus it also gets taunt and setup options, along with a meaty 174 attack stat. Pangoro is in C rank thanks to parting shot giving it a niche, but its mediocre bulk forces it to run protect to survive a hit before it can put prankster to full use, costing a moveslot.
And now onto a new threat for stall teams. Introducing.....
Togekiss @ Aggronite
Ability: Hustle
Stats: 85/80/145/120/135/80
Bold Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Heal Bell
- Defog
- Roost
This thing flat out hard stops almost every ate user in the game. With excellent defenses of 85/145/135, coupled with reliable recovery, filter, and one of, if not the, best typings in the game, aggronite togekiss will not go down easily. If this wasn't enough to sell you on it, togekiss also posseses a rather good support movepool, with gems like wish, defog, heal bell, and thunder wave. Of corse, togekiss will also not simply be sitting around, thanks to a decent base 120 Sp. Atk. It even gets nasty plot.
Oh, and in order to promote some discussion, talk about landorus-therian do you think it should get banned or not? My opinion is yes, but I'd like to hear some other arguments.
First off, nominating Regirock to B rank. As a mixed wall/tank with tyranitarite, Regirock performs quite well, tanking hits on both ends of the spectrum with 80/240/120 bulk backed up by sandstorm. Regirock is also no sitting duck with a decent base 130 attack, and STAB stone edge. It can also perform a support role with access to stealth rock and thunder wave as it is almost garunteed to get off at least one of those. It also functions as a hard check to any victini not running grass or fighting coverage, easily tanking v-create, and threatening back with a stone edge. It also can run steelixite instead if sand has been provided already. However, I cannot put it in A rank due to common weaknesses and the fact that it is very slow with no reliable recovery(drain punch does not count).
Next, nominating Pangoro for C rank. With bannetite attached to it, kung-fu panda becomes the only user of a priority switching move in the game. As a bonus it also gets taunt and setup options, along with a meaty 174 attack stat. Pangoro is in C rank thanks to parting shot giving it a niche, but its mediocre bulk forces it to run protect to survive a hit before it can put prankster to full use, costing a moveslot.
And now onto a new threat for stall teams. Introducing.....
Togekiss @ Aggronite
Ability: Hustle
Stats: 85/80/145/120/135/80
Bold Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Heal Bell
- Defog
- Roost
This thing flat out hard stops almost every ate user in the game. With excellent defenses of 85/145/135, coupled with reliable recovery, filter, and one of, if not the, best typings in the game, aggronite togekiss will not go down easily. If this wasn't enough to sell you on it, togekiss also posseses a rather good support movepool, with gems like wish, defog, heal bell, and thunder wave. Of corse, togekiss will also not simply be sitting around, thanks to a decent base 120 Sp. Atk. It even gets nasty plot.
Oh, and in order to promote some discussion, talk about landorus-therian do you think it should get banned or not? My opinion is yes, but I'd like to hear some other arguments.
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InfernapeTropius11
get on my level
I don't think there is any need to ban Landorus-I at all. By getting banned to ubers, it loses the ability to hold a mega stone. Besides, if you are talking about whether it should still be able to hold a Mega stone I think that would be fine too--the power creep is real in this meta, and I don't think it would be too OP. Its best stones would probably be Absolite, Cameruptite (loses speed tho), and Ampharosite (loses speed again, but wallbreaks all the Aggronite mons), and I feel like with its abysmal typing (always 4x weak to Ice) and the speed and power creep in this meta is enough to leave it unbanned from ubers. I'm sure people will disagree though, and tbh, either way is fine, but I personally believe it is alright to let it hold stones in this meta.
- Status