Mix-and-Mega — Now with Primals!

[InfernapeTropius11]

Hey guys! I just wanted to let you know that I am going to be hosting a round robin Mix and Mega tournament on Aqua on Tuesday at 7 PM GMT (2 PM EST iirc). Lots of the time, people go on Aqua looking for matches, but they don't always get them because others might not be there at that time, so this is your chance to come and test your teams, fight, and have fun!

 

[BibarelThump]

I agree it's not as overpowered, but it'd be a smaller meta that could be fun in its own way if you're into just those megas

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Hey guys! I just wanted to let you know that I am going to be hosting a round robin Mix and Mega tournament on Aqua on Tuesday at 7 PM GMT (2 PM EST iirc). Lots of the time, people go on Aqua looking for matches, but they don't always get them because others might not be there at that time, so this is your chance to come and test your teams, fight, and have fun!

Time for me to finish my probably trash team. I'm so psyched tho. I'm actually yet to even do a single battle, though I like to act like I know what I'm talking about.

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

Time for me to finish my probably trash team. I'm so psyched tho. I'm actually yet to even do a single battle, though I like to act like I know what I'm talking about.

LOL me too, I've only done mix and mega 1v1 XD

 

[NyneTiNyne]

I think I mentioned that a while back actually. Maybe not, but I meant to. After running some calls tho, I think it's actually inferior to regular zard x. It's EQ does more, and it's got way better SpA, but it's only physical fire stab is fire fang, and that's pitifully weak. It's dragon claw is also significantly weaker, since it lacks TC. Dragonite might be better, I think. It has fire punch instead, but I still don't think it's enough. The difference in power is substantial, and it doesn't really have any pros over zard x, barring the initial 4x weakness to rocks. I think it'd be better as a specially biased wallbreaker. Even though it's attack is slightly better, the power of its special moves is far greater.

But why? That just doesn't sound nearly as fun.

Zard X came across my mind, but I never actually calced any attacks. Mixed attacker is the way to go with Red Orb Salamence as it gets Fire Blast and Draco Meteor, which both hit harder than Zard X when invested in SpA. Draco Meteor does have the downside of lowering your SpA by 2 stages. Maybe I'll even just go with Reshiram, which hits around the same damage (maybe a bit less), but has more bulk and the ability to hold an item.

 

[Schpoonman]

252 SpA Salamence Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Harsh Sunshine: 316-373 (92.6 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Reshiram Blue Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 354-417 (103.8 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This is Salamence with Fire-typing and base 160 Special Attack. He would outdamage Reshiram's Fire STAB thanks to always being in the sun, but Blue Flare's BP makes up for the difference in Special Attack. Of course, other Dragon STAB hits harder as well with pretty much any item.

EDIT: Okay, sorry. I was just curious about whether or not Reshiram actually hit harder (like you seemed to be curious about), and he does, but only with Blue Flare, assuming he is also in sunlight or is wearing a boosting item.

 

[NyneTiNyne]

252 SpA Salamence Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Harsh Sunshine: 316-373 (92.6 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Reshiram Blue Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 354-417 (103.8 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This is Salamence with Fire-typing and base 160 Special Attack. He would outdamage Reshiram's Fire STAB thanks to always being in the sun, but Blue Flare's BP makes up for the difference in Special Attack. Of course, other Dragon STAB hits harder as well with pretty much any item.

The set I was referring to, and the one I needed for countering Red Orb, is not Specs, but Roost + 3 Attacks. So he would be carrying leftovers instead of Choice Specs.

 

[thdhted]

Bump before ded thread.
Togekiss @ Altarianite
85/90/115/165/115/80
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
- Extreme Speed/Aura Sphere/Fire Blast
- Hyper Voice
- Roost/Wish
- Defog/Nasty Plot/Protect

Meet Togekiss, a Pokemon that can fill SEVERAL roles in a team based on what you want it to do. It hits rather hard and has Pixispeed if you want it.

Goodra @ Cameruptite
90/130/100/150/180/80
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpA
- Fire Blast/ muddy Water
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt/Focus Blast/Ice Beam
- Power Whip/Sludge wave
With Goodra's wide movepool and unpredictable coverage options, goodra makes itslef into the perfect cameruptite user with hard hitting coverage options.

 

[Schpoonman]

It's worth noting that Altarianite Togekiss becomes pure Fairy-type, losing its 4x resistance to Fighting (though it's still probably more than bulky enough), immunity to Ground, and resistances to a few others for neutrality to Electric, Ice, and Rock. Cameruptite Goodra looks pretty powerful, those coverage moves are gonna be nasty. Unfortunately, it doesn't have a really good set of Sheer Force STABs to abuse like Camerupt does, but pretty much anything that wants to take base 150 Dracos won't appreciate its coverage moves. What physical options boosted by Sheer Force does Goodra get?

 

[Blumenwitz]

What physical options boosted by Sheer Force does Goodra get?

Just Iron Tail, Fire Punch and Thunder Punch. Goodra's physical movepool is pretty shallow overall.

 

[thesecondbest]

Just Iron Tail, Fire Punch and Thunder Punch. Goodra's physical movepool is pretty shallow overall.

not at all, it gets eq, power whip, outrage, and i think aqua tail too. But you're right, sheer force wise it doesnt get much that's very good.

 

[jordanthejq12]

Its special movepool is merely okay, being limited to Blizzard, Fire Blast, Focus Blast, Ice Beam, Muddy Water, Sludge Wave, and Thunder(bolt). (Physically it also gets Rock Slide, by the way.) It does have Dragon Breath for STAB Sheer Force, but that comes in at a few points less than even Dragon Pulse, so you might as well use that or Draco. Still, that plus three of the above will punch holes in teams. Sludge Wave is likely a required move because of the Altarianites running around, but after that, pick two, any two.

 

[thdhted]

I mostly chose goodra because of its unpredicability with coverage options(i'll send in Blue Orb ferro because he has fire bla...Oh wait, focus blast) and its good bulk and typing.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Agility dragonite could be pretty cool w/ cameruptite; since it's so slow, dragon dance wouldn't boost speed enough, but agility might. You'd likely have to run +Spe as well, since the meta is going to be pretty fast overall.

Edit: While I'm at it, I'm going to bring up dragonite in general.

I think Sky Barney is going to be really good. It has so many options to play with; all the -ate stones will be good, though glailitite an garedevoirite will certainly be less so, the tough claw stones will all be good, especially metagrossite for sweepers and zardite x for a wallbreaker set, it could use aggronite to become dragon/steel and resist or take neutral damage from all the atespeeds out there, as well as granting it a lot of bulk and a nice boost in power, it could run a mixed wallbreaker set w/ pidgeotite, a rain sweeper w/ swampertite, idk what else. It could even run a tank set w/ vebusaurite or something. I literally can't think of a single stone that it would be incapable of using effectively, though some would be somewhat less effective. It's got really good stats, a great movepool, and multiscale pre-mega to improve its bulk.

 

[urkerab]

I found the original table of stones somewhat tricky to use, so I hereby present my list of lists (excluding restricted and suspected stones).

list

• Most attacking stones:
  • +60: Diancite, Heracronite, Lopunnite
  • +50: Banettite, Blue Orb
  • +46: Charizardite X
• Most special attacking stones:
  • +65: Pidgeotite
  • +60: Diancite
  • +50: Ampharosite, Blastoisinite, Charizardite Y, Red Orb
• Most defensive stones:
  • +70: Slowbronite
  • +50: Aggronite, Sablenite, Salamencite
  • +40: Audinite, Heracronite, Houndoominite, Scizorite, Tyranitarite, Venusaurite
  • +33: Charizardite X
• Most specially defensive stones:
  • +50: Sablenite
  • +40: Audinite
  • +30: Cameruptite, Charizardite Y, Gyaradosite, Mewtwonite, Steelixite
• Fastest stones:
  • +40: Absolite, Metagrossite
  • +30: Alakazite, Galladite, Lopunnite, Manectite
  • +25: Sceptilite
  • +22: Lucarionite
• Slowest stones:
  • -30: Abomasite, Sablenite
  • -20: Cameruptite
• Heaviest stones:
  • 392.9: Metagrossite
  • 340: Steelixite
  • 150: Sablenite
  • 100.5: Cameruptite
• Lightest stone:
  • -0.5: Lopunnite
• Stones by added type:
  • Fighting: Lopunnite (useful for Psychic types perhaps?) No Ground/Fighting, Ghost/Fighting, Electric/Fighting, Ice/Fighting, Dragon/Fighting nor Fairy/Fighting normally exists.
  • Flying: Pinsirite (useful for Rock, Steel or Electric types?)
  • Steel: Aggronite (useful for Fairy and possibly Grass types?) No Normal/Steel, Poison/Steel nor Ice/Steel normally exists.
  • Fire: Red Orb (useful for Fighting, Water, Grass, Dragon, Dark types?). Note that no Grass/Fire type normally exists but it would only be weak to Flying, Poison and Rock. No Ice/Fire nor Fairy/Fire type normally exists either.
  • Dragon: Ampharosite, Charizardite X, Sceptilite (useful for Steel or Fire types?) No Normal/Dragon, Fighting/Dragon nor Bug/Dragon normally exists.
  • Dark: Gyaradosite (useful for Poison, Fire and possibly Flying types?) No Normal/Dark, Bug/Dark, Electric/Dark nor Fairy/Dark normally exists.
  • Fairy: Altarianite, Audinite (useful for Steel and Dark types?) No Fighting/Fairy, Poison/Fairy, Ground/Fairy, Bug/Fairy, Ghost/Fairy, Fire/Fairy, Ice/Fairy nor Dark/Fairy normally exists.
• Stones by ability (rating in brackets):
  • Adaptability (3.5): Lucarionite (useful if you don't have much coverage)
  • Aerilate (4): Pinsirite (useful to give you a second STAB), Salamencite
  • Desolate Land (5): Red Orb (gives you fire type so you need the water immunity)
  • Drought (4): Charizardite Y
  • Filter (3): Aggronite (gives you steel type)
  • Healer (0): Audinite (gives you fairy type)
  • Inner Focus (1.5): Galladite
  • Insomnia (2): Mewtwonite Y
  • Intimidate (3.5): Manectite
  • Levitate (3.5): Latiasite, Latiosite (useful for Electric types but also Drapion and Skuntank)
  • Lightning Rod (3.5): Sceptilite (would have been useful for Gyarados if it didn't change type too)
  • Magic Bounce (4.5): Absolite, Diancite, Sablenite
  • Mega Launcher (3.5): Blastoisinite
  • Mold Breaker (3.5): Ampharosite, Gyaradosite (both stones also change your type)
  • No Guard (4): Pidgeotite
  • Pixilate (4): Altarianite (useful to give you a second STAB), Gardevoirite
  • Prankster (4.5): Banettite
  • Primordial Sea (5): Blue Orb (gives Scizor Fire immunity but a 1.5× Water weakness)
  • Refrigerate (4): Glalitite
  • Sand Force (2): Garchompite, Steelixite (useful if your base form has Sand Stream)
  • Sand Stream (4): Tyranitarite
  • Scrappy (3): Lopunnite (gives you fighting type)
  • Sheer Force (4): Cameruptite
  • Shell Armor (1): Slowbronite
  • Skill Link (4): Heracronite
  • Snow Warning (3.5): Abomasite
  • Solar Power (1.5): Houndoominite (useful if your base form has Drought)
  • Strong Jaw (3): Sharpedonite
  • Swift Swim (2.5): Swampertite (useful if your base form has Drizzle)
  • Technician (4): Scizorite
  • Thick Fat (3.5): Venusaurite (most useful for grass types)
  • Tough Claws (3.5): Aerodactylite, Charizardite X (gives you dragon type), Metagrossite
  • Trace (3): Alakazite

 

[Schpoonman]

That Pidgeotite measurement is wrong, it gives 65 Special Attack, not Defense.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

InfernapeTropius11, you should host tournaments for this on a semi-regular basis. I was really looking forward to the last one, then I realized that it was during school. I'd love to join in if there were Saturday tournaments, since that's the only day I have significant amounts of time.

Also, I mentioned this next part earlier, but it kinda got brushed off. I seriously think some ubers could be suspected for the ability to use mega stones other than their own. Skymin, for example, was banned because of serene grace. With out that, it really wouldn't be that great. Not to mention, it's weak to fridgespeed/refrigerate QA and aerilatespeed. Greninja would lose protean, blaziken would lose speed boost, etc.. Basically, all the stuff that is uber for its ability rather than stats should be treated as though it is OU. In AAA, for example, blaziken was unbanned, since it's really not that powerful- relative to a lot of the other threats in the meta. Maybe no one else follows my logic though.

 

[Schpoonman]

Greninja and Skymin are one thing, but Blaziken could simply Protect one or two turns as stock Blaziken for that Speed Boost and then Mega Evolve with Charizardite X or Lucarionite. Hell, it even gets to keep STAB with Charizardite X since it gets Dual Chop. If Mix-And-Mega get some more attention I think Greninja and Skymin could be balanced even stock because of the increased power of the tier and so I could see them getting a Suspect Test if this gets OMotM, but Blaziken has way too many options to do really nasty work.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Greninja and Skymin are one thing, but Blaziken could simply Protect one or two turns as stock Blaziken for that Speed Boost and then Mega Evolve with Charizardite X or Lucarionite. Hell, it even gets to keep STAB with Charizardite X since it gets Dual Chop. If Mix-And-Mega get some more attention I think Greninja and Skymin could be balanced even stock because of the increased power of the tier and so I could see them getting a Suspect Test if this gets OMotM, but Blaziken has way too many options to do really nasty work.

The blaziken thing is true enough, however, it only gets one chance to sweep. If you mispredict a whirlwind or roar, or miscalculate the damage or something, it doesn't get speed boost anymore. Kinda like an upgraded sharpedo.

 

[Schpoonman]

Well, it may only get one chance to sweep, but it will certainly have more chances to wallbreak. Tough Claws Flare Blitz off 166 Attack is no laughing matter, neither is Adaptability HJK off 155, and those are just two possible sets. Blaziken can also boost its Attack with Swords Dance and Hone Claws, so against slower teams Speed Boost wouldn't even be a requirement. 80 and 100 or 102 aren't great in MaM, but that huge Attack stat and boosting Abilities still are.

 

[urkerab]

That Pidgeotite measurement is wrong, it gives 65 Special Attack, not Defense.

Sort of proves my point really, as I misread the measurements from the original table of stones.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

The problem with Blaziken is the there isn't a single stone I could give it without making it semi viable, with the exception of blue orb.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

The problem with Blaziken is the there isn't a single stone I could give it without making it semi viable, with the exception of blue orb.

There's lots of stuff like that though. And I do agree that blaziken may be a bit much, but I also think Lando T is borked AF, and it's legal. It can run any set and be at least semi viable, and some of them are absolutely insane.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

I found the original table of stones somewhat tricky to use, so I hereby present my list of lists (excluding restricted and suspected stones).

list

• Most attacking stones:
  • +60: Diancite, Heracronite, Lopunnite
  • +50: Banettite, Blue Orb
  • +46: Charizardite X
• Most special attacking stones:
  • +65: Pidgeotite
  • +60: Diancite
  • +50: Ampharosite, Blastoisinite, Charizardite Y, Red Orb
• Most defensive stones:
  • +70: Slowbronite
  • +50: Aggronite, Sablenite, Salamencite
  • +40: Audinite, Heracronite, Houndoominite, Scizorite, Tyranitarite, Venusaurite
  • +33: Charizardite X
• Most specially defensive stones:
  • +50: Sablenite
  • +40: Audinite
  • +30: Cameruptite, Charizardite Y, Gyaradosite, Mewtwonite, Steelixite
• Fastest stones:
  • +40: Absolite, Metagrossite
  • +30: Alakazite, Galladite, Lopunnite, Manectite
  • +25: Sceptilite
  • +22: Lucarionite
• Slowest stones:
  • -30: Abomasite, Sablenite
  • -20: Cameruptite
• Heaviest stones:
  • 392.9: Metagrossite
  • 340: Steelixite
  • 150: Sablenite
  • 100.5: Cameruptite
• Lightest stone:
  • -0.5: Lopunnite
• Stones by added type:
  • Fighting: Lopunnite (useful for Psychic types perhaps?) No Ground/Fighting, Ghost/Fighting, Electric/Fighting, Ice/Fighting, Dragon/Fighting nor Fairy/Fighting normally exists.
  • Flying: Pinsirite (useful for Rock, Steel or Electric types?)
  • Steel: Aggronite (useful for Fairy and possibly Grass types?) No Normal/Steel, Poison/Steel nor Ice/Steel normally exists.
  • Fire: Red Orb (useful for Fighting, Water, Grass, Dragon, Dark types?). Note that no Grass/Fire type normally exists but it would only be weak to Flying, Poison and Rock. No Ice/Fire nor Fairy/Fire type normally exists either.
  • Dragon: Ampharosite, Charizardite X, Sceptilite (useful for Steel or Fire types?) No Normal/Dragon, Fighting/Dragon nor Bug/Dragon normally exists.
  • Dark: Gyaradosite (useful for Poison, Fire and possibly Flying types?) No Normal/Dark, Bug/Dark, Electric/Dark nor Fairy/Dark normally exists.
  • Fairy: Altarianite, Audinite (useful for Steel and Dark types?) No Fighting/Fairy, Poison/Fairy, Ground/Fairy, Bug/Fairy, Ghost/Fairy, Fire/Fairy, Ice/Fairy nor Dark/Fairy normally exists.
• Stones by ability (rating in brackets):
  • Adaptability (3.5): Lucarionite (useful if you don't have much coverage)
  • Aerilate (4): Pinsirite (useful to give you a second STAB), Salamencite
  • Desolate Land (5): Red Orb (gives you fire type so you need the water immunity)
  • Drought (4): Charizardite Y
  • Filter (3): Aggronite (gives you steel type)
  • Healer (0): Audinite (gives you fairy type)
  • Inner Focus (1.5): Galladite
  • Insomnia (2): Mewtwonite Y
  • Intimidate (3.5): Manectite
  • Levitate (3.5): Latiasite, Latiosite (useful for Electric types but also Drapion and Skuntank)
  • Lightning Rod (3.5): Sceptilite (would have been useful for Gyarados if it didn't change type too)
  • Magic Bounce (4.5): Absolite, Diancite, Sablenite
  • Mega Launcher (3.5): Blastoisinite
  • Mold Breaker (3.5): Ampharosite, Gyaradosite (both stones also change your type)
  • No Guard (4): Pidgeotite
  • Pixilate (4): Altarianite (useful to give you a second STAB), Gardevoirite
  • Prankster (4.5): Banettite
  • Primordial Sea (5): Blue Orb (gives Scizor Fire immunity but a 1.5× Water weakness)
  • Refrigerate (4): Glalitite
  • Sand Force (2): Garchompite, Steelixite (useful if your base form has Sand Stream)
  • Sand Stream (4): Tyranitarite
  • Scrappy (3): Lopunnite (gives you fighting type)
  • Sheer Force (4): Cameruptite
  • Shell Armor (1): Slowbronite
  • Skill Link (4): Heracronite
  • Snow Warning (3.5): Abomasite
  • Solar Power (1.5): Houndoominite (useful if your base form has Drought)
  • Strong Jaw (3): Sharpedonite
  • Swift Swim (2.5): Swampertite (useful if your base form has Drizzle)
  • Technician (4): Scizorite
  • Thick Fat (3.5): Venusaurite (most useful for grass types)
  • Tough Claws (3.5): Aerodactylite, Charizardite X (gives you dragon type), Metagrossite
  • Trace (3): Alakazite

Trace should NOT be a 3. Lol, yeah... Mold breaker needs a 4, especially with all this magic bounce everywhere, id put insomnia at a 1, swift swim should be like, even a 4 since rain isn't hard to supply, and adaptability can't really be ranked, since it's basically useless for some, yet ridiculous for others.

Also, you should give each ability two ranks: one for offensive usefulness, and one for defensive usefulness. For example, magic bounce is incredibly useful for sweepers for protecting from burns and phazing and stuff, but is equally useful defensively as it helps walls by preventing them from being outstalled, should be 4.5 for offense, and 4.5 for defense. No ability should be ranked higher for either side than its overall rank, either. That's kinda a lot of work I guess, but it'd be super useful.

 

[Schpoonman]

There's lots of stuff like that though. And I do agree that blaziken may be a bit much, but I also think Lando T is borked AF, and it's legal. It can run any set and be at least semi viable, and some of them are absolutely insane.

It helps that its most broken set by far is now illegal. It used to invalidate full Hyper Offense (I won games against it because I was running Intimidate Registeel, and if not for that I would have lost every game against a Gale Wings Landorus), now it's just a really good offensive and sometimes defensive Pokemon. Un-Mega Blaziken is still one of the best set-up sweepers in the game, and unless you want to start seeing every team with Pinsirite Extreme Speed users I think the metagame is better without it.

EDIT: Shit. So it is. I maintain my point about Pinsirite Extreme Speeders, though. Ignore the part about Lando, though.