gogo generic RMT

[Fishin]

I've been playing around with some new team ideas lately, and after working out kinks throughout a few matches I've come up with a team that seems to be pretty solid. Seems is the key word, though, so go ahead and tear this team apart.

Obligatory "team at a glance":

Mushroom Hill (Breloom) () @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 44 HP/252 Atk/212 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Spore
- Stone Edge
- Focus Punch
- Seed Bomb

One of the absolute best leads IMO. 100% screws over anything slower that's not packing Lum Berry (or Sleep talk), and once it gets that free turn from Spore there aren't many things that can switch in safely. Seed Bomb and Focus Punch have somewhat limited coverage when combined, but Stone Edge hits a lot of the common non-psychic switch-ins hard. It has some defensive merit as well, helping against DDtar (without Ice Beam) and Gyara (without Ice Fang), though it's not my primary counter to either of those.

---
Scrap Brain (Gengar) () @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt

A pretty popular moveset right now, and it's not hard to see why. Scarf Gengar acts as effective insurance against a lot of boosting threats, including TTar, Gyarados, Dragonite, Salamence, etc and is a decent choice attacker overall if your opponent doesn't have Bliss. I'm not a fan of sleep attacks on Choice users, and I've already got a sleep inducer in Breloom so Hypnosis really doesn't have much place here. I'm considering Timid over Modest to beat other Scarfgars and Deoxys-E.

---
Hill Top (Snorlax) () @ Choice Band
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Crunch
- Return
- Pursuit
- Earthquake

Inspired by Picklesword's RMT. It's great for getting rid of Starmie and Gengar (both of who could mess up Gyara), and while it's nowhere near as durable as Blissey, it can be an effective counter to several of the tougher-but-weaker boosting special sweepers (things like CMcune, CMCress, etc).

---
Star Light (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 240 HP/56 Atk/76 Def/136 Spd
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Wish
- Zen Headbutt
- Reflect

A pretty solid set overall. Provides some useful resistances to the team, passes Wishes to Snorlax, supports with Reflect (I'm considering Light Screen, since my team has a bit more physical bulk than special), and scouts with U-turn.

---
Lava Reef (Heatran) () @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 180 HP/224 Spd/104 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Another set that's been gaining popularity recently. Absorbs sleep (I do have Breloom, but that isn't the safest switch into a lot of sleep inducers), provides resistances, etc. The EV's provide perfect lefties recovery, outspeed Jolly TTar, and give me a very good chance of OHKOing defensive opposing Heatran with Earth Power.

---
Flying Battery (Gyarados) () @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 212 HP/16 Atk/160 Def/120 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Dance
- Taunt

The one member I'm not totally sure about. It does make a great late-game sweeper and works effectively with a few other members of my team. The slightly unique EV-spread serves 3 purposes - Lets me outspeed other BulkyGyaras (including those ones that put in 4 extra speed just to beat other bulkygyaras), beats Scarfchomp after 2 DD's (Waterfall doesn't OHKO, but with some previous damage it works), and puts overall defense slightly lower than special defense, causing Download Porygon-Z to increase it's attack instead of special attack. I'm also thinking about doing Ice Fang/EQ over Waterfall/SE, as I do have some problems with SD Chomp.

Well, that's all. Go ahead and rate!

 

[JabbaTheGriffin]

Hmmm it does look pretty solid. I would just be careful because it seems your team relies mostly a lot on Snorlax to take special threats, and since it can easily be worn down you might have problems with special sweepers late game.

 

[Calciphoce]

To me, it seems that instead of gyara for a DD poke, you should run dragonite. Your team seems to fit it better, especially with so many things that could switch in on ice attacks.

 

[Calciphoce]

IMO, Gyara is the best DD Sweeper in the game.

And in mine, Nite is. Opinions on their own are useless.

 

[Kira]

Use Timid over Modest on scarf-gar. Trust me, the extra speed pays off a lot more than the extra attack.

 

[Calciphoce]

Use Timid over Modest on scarf-gar. Trust me, the extra speed pays off a lot more than the extra attack.

What exactly does it outspeed that it wouldn't already? Modest scarf gengar reaches 478 speed, which is already really fucking fast. The only things you'll be outspeeding are CS Weavile and Aero, and those are rarely seen. It's not worth it IMO.

 

[dirtybirdy]

go for modest on scarfgar, ive been using one for months on shoddy and i have yet to get outsped by a random cs weavile, aero, or other scarfgar (you may consider switching out on other gengars just to get an idea if theyre scarfed in case, and commonly if they arent theyll switch in on your focus blasts thinking youre running a modest set or something, which is a free kill)

the benefits ABSOLUTELY outweigh the risks

 

[Kira]

Well it has saved my ass numerous times. Although I face a lot of other scarf-gar and deoxys-E on shoddy... so maybe that is just me.

 

[Fishin]

To me, it seems that instead of gyara for a DD poke, you should run dragonite. Your team seems to fit it better, especially with so many things that could switch in on ice attacks.

I considered that for awhile, but putting Dragonite over Gyarados leaves me with Gengar as my only hope against a SDchomp (which isn't 100% reliable due to Yache/Sand Veil), everything else is outsped and OHKO'd. If I change one of my other members (which is still an option) it'd be pretty effective, I'm guessing.

Hmmm it does look pretty solid. I would just be careful because it seems your team relies mostly a lot on Snorlax to take special threats, and since it can easily be worn down you might have problems with special sweepers late game.

I generally try to rely on resistances when dealing with special threats, but you're right, I do run into trouble on occasion. You don't really realize how good Blissey is until you run a team without her, I guess.

Use Timid over Modest on scarf-gar. Trust me, the extra speed pays off a lot more than the extra attack.

As other people have said, though, there are only a few things that it makes a difference on (and I'd rather eliminate Gengar by using Snorlax than risk a speed tie). Meh, I dunno.

Ice Fang really isn't the beast choice on BulkyGyara IMO, but you only have one other Ice move on your team, so consider it.

I've always found that Rock/Water is a very effective combonation while sweeping and using Ice Fang/EQ leaves you with a lot less power, but this does fit better on my team, so...eh, it's something I'll decide eventually.

Thanks for the comments so far.

 

[Bourbon]

COOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!

Sonic level names!! I like!! Did anyone else catch that?

 

[animenagai]

What exactly does it outspeed that it wouldn't already? Modest scarf gengar reaches 478 speed, which is already really fucking fast. The only things you'll be outspeeding are CS Weavile and Aero, and those are rarely seen. It's not worth it IMO.

yeah i agree. why anyone would go with a timid scarfgar with 252 speed EV's is beyond me. that's just complete overkill. this scarfgar is already faster than the standard scarfgars too, since most of them don't have 252 speed EV's and put around 50 on HP instead. this one's just fine, don't touch it.

i like the team. i like the team quite a bit. i'm trying to think of something that packs close combat with earthquake commonly, but nothing's coming to me right now XD. gengar can revenge kill just about anything anyways.

i would like to see sub on breloom. dealing with a strong poke with a sub up is VERY annoying. it's worth the HP and the slot. with it, you really force the opponent to adjust to you. i rather you got rid of seed bomb than sub. breloom doesn't need a big array of type coverage for it to be effective.

one last thing about this team is that it loses on the battle of steath rocks. switching is such a big part of pokemon, stealth rocks/spikes give you a huge advantage. i know this is an offensive team, so u can't put too much effort in that sort of pokemon hygene but then again, there's a lot of switching in offensive teams. consider a rapid spinner or a spiker. you don't necessarily need both, but one out of two would be nice.

 

[eden]

Lol Awesome team. You may want top consider that Fire Blast @Brave on lAx for Sakrmory though

 

[Slice n Dice]

What exactly does it outspeed that it wouldn't already? Modest scarf gengar reaches 478 speed, which is already really fucking fast. The only things you'll be outspeeding are CS Weavile and Aero, and those are rarely seen. It's not worth it IMO.

There are several reasons.
1. The attack drop is pretty minor.
2. It outspeeds the following increasing popular threats:
Adamant Gyarados with 252>speed evs that has Dragon Danced Twice
Modest/Rash/Mild natured Choice Scarf Azelf
Jolly Scarfchomp(yes, I'm serious)
Other Scarfgars
Tyranitar with 2 DDs
Adamant Dragonite with 252>Speed evs and 2 DDs



....Trust me it is worth it.




By the way Fishin, go with this for Breloom:

Jolly- 252 attack- 182 speed- 78 hp(I am pretty sure, enough to generate max attack, 245 speed, and rest in hp)

Spore
Leech Seed
Substitute
Focus Punch


A pretty formidible set, takes out Cress, Gliscor, and common walls that like to switch in, as well as DDtar and even things that intentionally run 244 to outspeed DDtar.

 

[Calciphoce]

There are several reasons.
1. The attack drop is pretty minor.
2. It outspeeds the following increasing popular threats:
Adamant Gyarados with 252>speed evs that has Dragon Danced Twice
Modest/Rash/Mild natured Choice Scarf Azelf
Jolly Scarfchomp(yes, I'm serious)
Other Scarfgars
Tyranitar with 2 DDs
Adamant Dragonite with 252>Speed evs and 2 DDs

No one runs 252 speed EVs on Gyara.
No one runs scarf azelf. Plus, gengar shouldn't be switching in on azelf in the first place. And if it is switching in, then you know it isn't scarfed by now.
No one runs jolly scarfchomp. And if they do, then he's got heatran and jirachi to fall back on. With no boost in power, he can handle them fine.
Hell, barely anyone runs scarfgar too. And, like he even said, the first switch in would be snorlax.

Bolded are never supposed to happen in the first place. I highly doubt Fishin will let a pokemon get 2 free DDs in.

Sorry to take over your thread Fishin.

 

[Slice n Dice]

...lol.
You obviously aren't up with the metagame.

 

[Calciphoce]

...lol.
You obviously aren't up with the metagame.

You completely ignored my points, and this is a discussion for another thread. If you really want to prove me wrong, then make a discussion thread and we can talk about it there.

 

[Killerofblisseys]

Your team is seriously weak to CB mamoswine, knocks out 4/6 of your team.
I'd see whether Weezing could slide his way into this team, as some sort of counter to it.

 

[Nightsever]

gyarados+jirachi beats cb mamoswine and it can barely switch in

 

[Killerofblisseys]

Gyrados=Stone Edge
Jirachi= Earthquake.

 

[Nightsever]

prediction

 

[Killerofblisseys]

Okay, you win. But I still beleive I'm right.

 

[yoshi!]

Gyrados=Stone Edge
Jirachi= Earthquake.

But then, the Mamoswine user would have to switch out, and I'd find it quite hard to switch it in on this team. And CB would make it very slow.

 

[Fishin]

One thing I was thinking of trying was substituting Cresselia (rest-talk with IB/Psychic) and Lucario (SD sweeper) for Heatran and Jirachi. I lose both my reliable dragon resists (Lucario is too frail to tank a boosted anything dragon-type), so CB Chomp and CSmence become a much bigger threats, but Gengar is far more capable of revenge-killing chomps reliably since I don't have to worry about Subs or random Yache berries and Cress helps to an extent. This gives me another reliable late-game sweeper, as well as something that can take most Rock and Dark attacks. I'm also much less weak to Vire and Infernape, both of who are pretty dangerous to my current team.

As far as Modest vs Timid on Scarfgar goes, so far I've run into very few situations where I've wanted to have Timid instead of Modest, so I think I'll stick with Modest for now and switch to Timid if I start seeing a need for it.

Sonic level names!! I like!! Did anyone else catch that?

Heh, I'm glad someone did.

Lol Awesome team. You may want top consider that Fire Blast @Brave on lAx for Sakrmory though

Thing is, Snorlax really wants all of it's moveslots, and I can't think of a true good spot for Fire Blast (I suppose I could try it over Crunch, but then I can't do much to ghosts and I'm weakened against Cress as well).

i would like to see sub on breloom. dealing with a strong poke with a sub up is VERY annoying. it's worth the HP and the slot. with it, you really force the opponent to adjust to you. i rather you got rid of seed bomb than sub. breloom doesn't need a big array of type coverage for it to be effective.

By the way Fishin, go with this for Breloom:

Jolly- 252 attack- 182 speed- 78 hp(I am pretty sure, enough to generate max attack, 245 speed, and rest in hp)

Spore
Leech Seed
Substitute
Focus Punch

A pretty formidible set, takes out Cress, Gliscor, and common walls that like to switch in, as well as DDtar and even things that intentionally run 244 to outspeed DDtar.

I'm still playing around with Breloom and trying to find out which set I like best, so I'll take both those into consideration.

one last thing about this team is that it loses on the battle of steath rocks. switching is such a big part of pokemon, stealth rocks/spikes give you a huge advantage. i know this is an offensive team, so u can't put too much effort in that sort of pokemon hygene but then again, there's a lot of switching in offensive teams. consider a rapid spinner or a spiker. you don't necessarily need both, but one out of two would be nice.

As of yet, I haven't found a good way to fit SR onto my team. It's definitely better suited for my team than Rapid Spin (on my team, only one pokemon is affected negatively by toxic spikes, and many of the pokemon resist SR or are immune to spikes so overall I'm not too worried about it).

Your team is seriously weak to CB mamoswine, knocks out 4/6 of your team.

Yeah, I counter Mamo (as well as many other things) on prediction and difficulty of it switching in.