Sheer Cold Suicune was a special event from the movie releases back in 4th Gen. Because of this limited distribution we will not be seeing ColdCune nearly as much as is being hyped here. Maybe he will be a top tier threat, but he will not be a common threat. So if you're doing this competition just for fun, I wouldn't worry about him too much.
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[DONE] JOHTO CLASSIC - Post your results!
- Thread starter DragonWhale
- Start date
Is that literally just a Sleep Talk + Fissure Snorlax? Actually seems like a very good set.
The one season it was legal in BSS suicune's usage shot up and sheer cold was on a huge amount of them. Just because it's a rare event don't think people won't get their hands on this thing. Clones go around fast.
Crobat @ Choice Band
Ability: Infiltrator
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Cross Poison
- U-turn
- Sleep Talk
I went with Zen Headbutt instead of Sleep Talk for those lucky flinches, and to take care of Gengar. The only mons that outspeed it are Electrode, Aerodactyl, Jolteon, and anything with a Choice Scarf, +speed nature, and 134 natural speed with maxed IVs.
Ability: Infiltrator
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Cross Poison
- U-turn
- Sleep Talk
I went with Zen Headbutt instead of Sleep Talk for those lucky flinches, and to take care of Gengar. The only mons that outspeed it are Electrode, Aerodactyl, Jolteon, and anything with a Choice Scarf, +speed nature, and 134 natural speed with maxed IVs.
nah it has body slam
Zen Headbutt is actually weaker than Brave Bird against Gengar (160 vs 180, not that it matters because both KO). Even though you take recoil, I'd pretty much always rather be locked into STAB Brave Bird than ZH. If anything, I'd run Pursuit as a means of checkmating weakened Gengar. I'll probably test out Pursuit because I'm running that Body Slam/Fissure Lax.
Crobat @ White Herb
Ability: Infiltrator
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Curse
- Acrobatics/Brave Bird
- Cross Poison
- U-turn
This is another set I want to try out at some point. I think it'd work well in the current meta.
Well, if that's true, then can someone please clone a ColdCune for me? lol, but seriously...
My buddy uses this same Murkrow on me when we battle (OU-esk). It is pretty difficult to work around if your not expecting it, and it seems to work a lot better in 3v3 than 6v6, in my experience. I think protect + Roost is the best set.
I feel that, with Specs Lanturn, you'll want to slash Hydro Pump somewhere. Lanturn isn't that strong, even with Specs, so you'll want a move that does as much damage as possible, even with the chance to miss.
What about Watmel Berry, Natural Gift Azumarill?Here's some cool stuff Nelson Tangela and I played around with today:
Piloswine @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Avalanche / Icicle Spear
- Fissure / Stealth Rock / Freeze Dry
This thing is a great answer to Zapdos and Raikou lacking HP Ice / Aura Sphere and beats Dragonite. It tanks HP Ice and Heat Wave for days, can usually stomach two HP Grass or Raikou's aura sphere from two non boosting item electrics, and take one HP Grass or Aura Sphere from LO / Specs electrics. Vs Dnite, it can switch in and nearly always KO it (If they outrage immediately, you have a 22% chance to die. If you wanna live 88% of the time, you can invest 12 EVs in defense. If you always want to live, invest 44 Defense). Use Avalanche and if they attack you, they die through multi scale. If they don't attack and DD or something else, you like a +4 Extreme Speed and KO it with Ice Shard. The first three moves are self explanatory. The last one has minor uses and is pretty flexible. Use Fissure to bust through other walls, use stealth rocks to break sashes and stuff, and freeze dry 2HKOs Quag if you hate him, even with an adamant nature and no investment.
Exeggutor @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Psychic
- Giga Drain
- Sleep Powder
- Trick Room
Lots of mons are trying to be fast in this format and Exeggutor takes advantage of that nicely. It's also a nice supplementary electric answer and can sponge azu's water moves. Use TR if you're slower than everything, put things asleep, and use Giga Drain and Psychic while harvest makes sure you never fucking die. Nelson was using a Ninetails to bluff a chlorophyll set and give Eggy free sitrus basically always which worked pretty well with it.
252+ Atk Watmel Berry Huge Power Azumarill Natural Gift (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Exeggcute: 170-200 (101.7 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
This would also make Azumarill a great lure to take out Forretress and Scizor.
You calced that attack against Exeggcute, not Exeggutor.
Nobody uses Watmel Berry Azumarill and even less people use Forretress.
252+ Atk Watmel Berry Huge Power Azumarill Natural Gift (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Exeggutor: 160-190 (79.2 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lmao, oops. Sorry for the hasty bad calc. Thanks for the correction. Either way, that's the point in using Watmel Azumarill as a lure, because no one uses it. "A lure, by definition, is a Pokémon set that deviates from the norm to catch an opponent off-guard in order to benefit the rest of the team." Here is a link: w8 wat effective lures. This set hits Skarmory and other steels hard too. Granted, the article is for OU, but I think it could translate well to Johto Classic. But, you've got a point. After doing some more calculations, Exeggutor is a solid check to Azumarill even with Watmel Berry. The Mantyke wouldn't need to worry about Watmarill.
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For some reason I thought I was going to run a Sand team.
Well Ttar, Shuckle, and a few other Pokémon to take advantage. Well I basically wanted to do Contrary Shell Smash Shuckle and try to annoy the hell out of my opponent.
However, with all the chances for a OHKO move to be used. I am thinking that idea will not be effective.
I'm not very good with hyper offensive teams.
Well Ttar, Shuckle, and a few other Pokémon to take advantage. Well I basically wanted to do Contrary Shell Smash Shuckle and try to annoy the hell out of my opponent.
However, with all the chances for a OHKO move to be used. I am thinking that idea will not be effective.
I'm not very good with hyper offensive teams.
If you're real, use Sand Rush
Edit: I edited the Role Compendium and made several changes throughout today and yesterday. I just added viable Eviolite users (you can only have one per team due to item clause), a Mirror Coat/Counter section and added mons to various parts of the list. It's on the previous page for those who haven't seen it yet.
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I've seen crazy things done with moody... Or maybe I was just unprepared lol. Moody Smeargle is terribly dangerous for both its ability to stall the opponent with Spore and Substitute and Baton Pass the result to higher threats (I've seen this done onto a Dragonite and it was NOT pretty). Moody Octillery seems just as unpredictable although less threatening than the former. It could be worth having a phazer even if just for these two (and also ruins the plans of BD Azumarill)
zapzap29
The obssessive man of passion
I personally think Moody Mons will be more prevalent on Showdown than in the actual competition. On the cartridge you have to manually track all the stat changes yourself and it can be a time consuming process waiting to get all the positive boosts you need based on your luck.
Not trying to discount Moody Mons, they are potentially a big threat. Quagsire and Clefable can help against them too since they have Unaware.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/johtoclassic-369444052
When Donphan doesn't even give you a chance...
When Donphan doesn't even give you a chance...
Am I the only one that finds Tyranitar slightly underwhelming in general in this metagame? I'm not really saying that it's a bad Pokemon, but a lot of the top mons here give it serious amounts of trouble. Scizor, Azumarill, Suicune, Focus Blast Alakazam (it's FASTER than ScarfTar ;-;), Piloswine, Donphan, Machamp, even Close Combat variants of Arcanine can scare away this thing. Granted, T-Tar can be tough to switch in to at times, but it leaves itself so wide open to a lot of common and dangerous threats.
The other issue is its main STAB in Stone Edge is hella inconsistent when it comes to accuracy, as we all know. One miss in a 3v3 game can be catastrophic to your win chance.
It sucks because Tyranitar is in my top 3 favorite Pokemon of all time and I'm sitting here talking crap about it ;-;
The other issue is its main STAB in Stone Edge is hella inconsistent when it comes to accuracy, as we all know. One miss in a 3v3 game can be catastrophic to your win chance.
It sucks because Tyranitar is in my top 3 favorite Pokemon of all time and I'm sitting here talking crap about it ;-;
I ran scarf Tar in OU and had to bench it because it seemed I was always missing an important Stone Edge right at the tail end of the game, so I know exactly what you're taking about.
It's not that it's a bad Pokemon, it's just that it's slow as hell for a pseudo legend and it has a crap load of weaknesses, and the Fairy typing being super effective against Dark didn't exactly help things.
Don't get me wrong, Tar Tar will still see his usage in this meta game, but it needs tons of support to succeed.
I think Scarf T-tar is good for catching some stuff off guard like Raikou/Zapdos/Entei/Dragonite, but then you need support to prevent your opponents from setting up and sweeping your team. Like Sash Gengar is a good way to take out BD Azumarill (gotta hope your sand turns are over by then though).
I'm currently having problems with smeargle + espeon.
How to counter both?
How to counter both?
I am one of the scrubs using Moody Smeargle and it's been working well so far, except I'm using it as a poor man's Glalie with SubProtect and Sheer Cold. If you allow it to come in against something slower and let it get that first Sub up then you're going to fall into a cycle and it just snowballs from there.
As for threats, anything with priority wins (if it can hit) because they can break the Sub and kill before getting up another one. The big ones are Scizor, Azumarill, and Dragonite. Cloyster would also be big with Shell Smash and Icicle Spear (and Ice Shard). These things also threaten Espeon, especially Scizor. Donphan can also be good with Earthquake + Ice Shard against Smeargle, and Endeavor + Ice Shard against Espeon.
As for threats, anything with priority wins (if it can hit) because they can break the Sub and kill before getting up another one. The big ones are Scizor, Azumarill, and Dragonite. Cloyster would also be big with Shell Smash and Icicle Spear (and Ice Shard). These things also threaten Espeon, especially Scizor. Donphan can also be good with Earthquake + Ice Shard against Smeargle, and Endeavor + Ice Shard against Espeon.
I think something a bit different that could work well is Scarf Heracross, Pin Missile fucks up both Smeargle + Espeon even with just 2 hits...
I almost forgot about that Smeargle b***ard. If I came to use it'd have Focus Sash, so priority wouldn't help at first. Lum Berry could be a good deal too. Espeon also does well against it, but it should be more predictable and force Smeargle to switch.
Espeon could also try a Dual Screen set, I don't expect much people using Brick Break, yet it hits less harder than Alakazam.
I'm wondering if I should give full investment in both HP and Defense to Bold Zapdos. A Sacred Fire Entei 2HKO'd me with burn included the other day, though it was also my fault for not bringing Tyranitar. Guess I trusted too much in Machamp to take down much of the opponent's team, yet Alakazam got also burned but proved me that Magic Guard + Focus Sash isn't bad at all. Machamp was No Guard + Assault Vest, which worked to 2HKO a Gengar with Stone Edge, and Zapdos had Leftovers. Zapdos may lose some Special Attack, but if I use Tailwind... Sheer Cold Suicune won't scare me at all if I come to use Machamp. Moreover, Dynamic Punching Quagsire can also help somewhat. Machamp just doesn't care that much about whatever switches on it.
Wobbuffet was another surprise to me. Fortunately, I can U-Turn with Band Scizor and bring Gengar in to nullify Counter. As for Mirror Coat, I'd have to teach Zapdos Volt Switch and then bring in Tyranitar, though I actually use Thunderbolt. There may be times where this kind of switches may not be ideal, so who knows.
Espeon could also try a Dual Screen set, I don't expect much people using Brick Break, yet it hits less harder than Alakazam.
I'm wondering if I should give full investment in both HP and Defense to Bold Zapdos. A Sacred Fire Entei 2HKO'd me with burn included the other day, though it was also my fault for not bringing Tyranitar. Guess I trusted too much in Machamp to take down much of the opponent's team, yet Alakazam got also burned but proved me that Magic Guard + Focus Sash isn't bad at all. Machamp was No Guard + Assault Vest, which worked to 2HKO a Gengar with Stone Edge, and Zapdos had Leftovers. Zapdos may lose some Special Attack, but if I use Tailwind... Sheer Cold Suicune won't scare me at all if I come to use Machamp. Moreover, Dynamic Punching Quagsire can also help somewhat. Machamp just doesn't care that much about whatever switches on it.
Wobbuffet was another surprise to me. Fortunately, I can U-Turn with Band Scizor and bring Gengar in to nullify Counter. As for Mirror Coat, I'd have to teach Zapdos Volt Switch and then bring in Tyranitar, though I actually use Thunderbolt. There may be times where this kind of switches may not be ideal, so who knows.
Anyone have any ideas for an Umbreon set? I'm having trouble deciding whether a Curse offensive set or Stall/Tank set is appropriate.
Lum Berry Dragonite seems like a good option. If they try to Spore they'll get hit hard then finished off by Extreme Speed.
Yes, i've been using dragonite with lum berry to counter smeargle. I also liked the heracross idea said by cant say, but I might not use the scarf set. I'm wondering, which is better: a moxie or a guts heracross. Guts could work as a status absorber which my team fails at.