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Zygarde Discussion
- Thread starter Nexus
- Start date
What would happen to 50% Zygarde (import) now that it gets Arrows?
In Gen 6 its DD/Coil, Sub set was hopelessly walled by anything that flew but now it can hit them.
In Gen 6 its DD/Coil, Sub set was hopelessly walled by anything that flew but now it can hit them.
If Zygarde's 50% form from X and Y gets Thousand Arrows and Thousand Waves, then its likely to be pretty good, much better than it was in gen 6. Thousand Arrows is an extremely spammable Ground STAB move thanks to its ability to hit Flying and Levitating Pokemon. Because its Ground STAB no longer has any immunities, Zygarde's Dragon Dance sets have much more breathing room when sweeping, as it no longer has to lock itself into Outrage or run Stone Edge to hit Ground immune mons like Rotom-W and Landorus-T.
SubCoil sets also look like they will be much better stallbreakers thanks to Thousand Waves, which allows Zygarde to trap a passive stall mons and setup to +6 thanks to its good bulk and ability to create 101 Substitutes. You can then sweep the rest of the opponent's team with a coverage move of your choice.
Zygarde's new forms are both very disappointing and are likely going to be a fair bit worse than Zygarde's 50% form from X and Y (if it gets access to TA and TW) due to the lack of Dragon Dance and ESpeed (why did game freak think removing these near essential moves from Zygarde's S&M level up movepool was a good idea???). That being said, I think Zygarde's Dog from could be pretty good as a CB user and Coil sweeper in the lower tiers due to Thousand Arrows and its high base speed.
SubCoil sets also look like they will be much better stallbreakers thanks to Thousand Waves, which allows Zygarde to trap a passive stall mons and setup to +6 thanks to its good bulk and ability to create 101 Substitutes. You can then sweep the rest of the opponent's team with a coverage move of your choice.
Zygarde's new forms are both very disappointing and are likely going to be a fair bit worse than Zygarde's 50% form from X and Y (if it gets access to TA and TW) due to the lack of Dragon Dance and ESpeed (why did game freak think removing these near essential moves from Zygarde's S&M level up movepool was a good idea???). That being said, I think Zygarde's Dog from could be pretty good as a CB user and Coil sweeper in the lower tiers due to Thousand Arrows and its high base speed.
SubCoil might run Thousand Arrows anyways simply because you muscle through Togekiss and Skarmory (especially if the latter has Rocky Helmet) and anything with Air Balloon or Levitate (Excadrill sometimes, Rotom-Wash), which is great.
Couldn't you put a Focus Sash on this thing to protect it from ice moves and then use Rest (first turn if opponent is likely to outspeed and second turn if not) to get back to full HP? At that point it's nearly as bulky as Blissey without the physical weakness, although the 4x weakness still hurts. (Toxic/Coil)/Rest/Sleep Talk/Thousand Arrows seems like maybe a viable set at that point?
If Core Enforcer replaces Thousand Arrows, though, 100% will be even worse because Core Enforcer goes off its weaker attack stat, doesn't have as useful a secondary effect and can't benefit from any boosting moves that Zygarde learns.
Anyway, stronger than Xerneas and Yveltal? Really? 28 higher BST in exchange for a wasted ability slot, diminished HP, a worse movepool and far less items you can use meaningfully because of the difficulty of getting a Pokemon to <50% HP when it has a quad weakness?
If Core Enforcer replaces Thousand Arrows, though, 100% will be even worse because Core Enforcer goes off its weaker attack stat, doesn't have as useful a secondary effect and can't benefit from any boosting moves that Zygarde learns.
Anyway, stronger than Xerneas and Yveltal? Really? 28 higher BST in exchange for a wasted ability slot, diminished HP, a worse movepool and far less items you can use meaningfully because of the difficulty of getting a Pokemon to <50% HP when it has a quad weakness?
An offensive set looks pretty good on this thing.
10% forme's Attack and Speed are no joke, Outrage and Thousand Arrows/Earthquake off base 115 Speed are pretty powerful. You use it as a fast offense mon, it gets worn down over the course of a battle, then it switches to Complete Forme and becomes a bulky attacker. Fully invested base 85 Speed isn't the best, but it's still fairly fast.
I had a look at the numbers for HP. 10% to Complete, base 56 to 216. 10% forme has 253 max HP with 0 EVs, and Complete has 573. If 10% is knocked down to, say, 40% HP and switches, it gains 128 HP, which heals it to 62%.
If it switches at 10%, it's healed to 15%. At 49%, it's healed to 76%.
10% forme's Attack and Speed are no joke, Outrage and Thousand Arrows/Earthquake off base 115 Speed are pretty powerful. You use it as a fast offense mon, it gets worn down over the course of a battle, then it switches to Complete Forme and becomes a bulky attacker. Fully invested base 85 Speed isn't the best, but it's still fairly fast.
I had a look at the numbers for HP. 10% to Complete, base 56 to 216. 10% forme has 253 max HP with 0 EVs, and Complete has 573. If 10% is knocked down to, say, 40% HP and switches, it gains 128 HP, which heals it to 62%.
If it switches at 10%, it's healed to 15%. At 49%, it's healed to 76%.
Well then, if 50% can get the transform ability, and movepool is intact, I see this as a straight upgrade to Zygarde 50%, which sounds pretty good.
What happened to Thousand Waves?Ok so if you're worried about Zygarde no longer having DD and ES, it seems that you can get them via the Zygarde Cube
Thanks for clarifying this information!Ok so if you're worried about Zygarde no longer having DD and ES, it seems that you can get them via the Zygarde Cube
With this in mind, I believe its safe to say that all the Zygarde forms will be pretty good, though not necessarily uber. Zygarde 10% form is likely to be a pretty good sweeper, as its high base speed and Thousand Arrows + Outrage allow it to force out a lot of pokemon like Rotom-W and Latios, giving it ample opportunities to setup. Nerfs to priority only aide Zygarde 10%'s sweeping potential, though Tapu Bulu looks to be a hard Counter to it unless it runs Iron Tail.
Power Construct Zygarde 10% form is likely to run subDD sets with Thousand Arrows and Outrage as its dual Stab moves. Zygarde 100% form is super bulky even without investing in its defenses, to the point where things like Scizor are barely able to 2HKO its Substitues, so its definitely looking to be a scary cleaner.
I just realized why Zygarde lost Dragon Dance....
Flygon stole it.
Flygon stole it.
If I'm reading the game text correctly, the whole "unified zygarde" thing may just be zygarde-10/50% with power construct. The Zygarde remains in 10/50% forme outside/at the start of battle and activates the remaining cells that it now possesses when its HP drops below half.
Hold on, Zygarde can stay in its complete form PERMANENTLY? Is that how that text should be understood?
It didn't lose Dragon Dance.
Here are the full text
The Zygarde has been reassembled!
A new Zygarde has been assembled!
It’s Zygarde 10% Forme!
It’s Zygarde 50% Forme!
It’s the unified Zygarde with the Power Construct Ability!
Zygarde has gone into a Poké Ball! Zygarde has been sent to the PC!
Zygarde will be assembled with the Cores and Cells within the Zygarde Cube only!
The [VAR NUM3(0000)]% stored in the Zygarde Cube will be used to assemble Zygarde 10% Forme!
The [VAR NUM3(0000)]% stored in the Zygarde Cube will be used to assemble Zygarde 50% Forme!
The [VAR NUM3(0000)]% stored in the Zygarde Cube will be used to assemble the unified Zygarde with the Power Construct Ability!
Please select the Zygarde you’d like to separate into Cells!
Once separated, the separated Zygarde cannot be put back together! You’ll lose all its moves, Ribbons— everything about it! Would you still like to separate the Zygarde you’ve selected?
Quit separation
Select another
Will you quit the separation of Zygarde?
You cannot separate Pokémon other than Zygarde! You cannot separate the unified Zygarde with the Power Construct Ability because its Cells are bound together so tightly.
Please select a Zygarde that can be separated! Quitting separation operation! Please select a Zygarde that can be separated!
Base on all these texts, we can safely assume that the unified Zygarde is Zygarde 100%
The Zygarde has been reassembled!
A new Zygarde has been assembled!
It’s Zygarde 10% Forme!
It’s Zygarde 50% Forme!
It’s the unified Zygarde with the Power Construct Ability!
Zygarde has gone into a Poké Ball! Zygarde has been sent to the PC!
Zygarde will be assembled with the Cores and Cells within the Zygarde Cube only!
The [VAR NUM3(0000)]% stored in the Zygarde Cube will be used to assemble Zygarde 10% Forme!
The [VAR NUM3(0000)]% stored in the Zygarde Cube will be used to assemble Zygarde 50% Forme!
The [VAR NUM3(0000)]% stored in the Zygarde Cube will be used to assemble the unified Zygarde with the Power Construct Ability!
Please select the Zygarde you’d like to separate into Cells!
Once separated, the separated Zygarde cannot be put back together! You’ll lose all its moves, Ribbons— everything about it! Would you still like to separate the Zygarde you’ve selected?
Quit separation
Select another
Will you quit the separation of Zygarde?
You cannot separate Pokémon other than Zygarde! You cannot separate the unified Zygarde with the Power Construct Ability because its Cells are bound together so tightly.
Please select a Zygarde that can be separated! Quitting separation operation! Please select a Zygarde that can be separated!
Base on all these texts, we can safely assume that the unified Zygarde is Zygarde 100%
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How interesting that it allows you to essentially destroy and create Zygarde at will. The Core survives, so they won't have to answer any questions about "killing" Pokemon, but still--- aside from Releases, there's never before been a system where a given Pokemon simply ceases to exist in your game.
I think it is like Kyurem fusion form with Zekrom/Reshiram i.e. separate them into parts.
So what I understand from these texts is...., you collect an x amount of Zygarde's Cells and Cores, then construct them into Zygarde 10%/50%/100% form. So its not actually destroying a pokemon, its making Zygarde 10%/50% into pieces again (Cores and Cells)
If it's complete Zygarde they'd have referenced it that way instead of unified zygarde.
Also how would 10% and 50% Zygarde get Power Construct? Does it randomize between Aura Break and Power Construct? Also what's the point of Power Construct if it already starts the battle at 100%?
Also how would 10% and 50% Zygarde get Power Construct? Does it randomize between Aura Break and Power Construct? Also what's the point of Power Construct if it already starts the battle at 100%?
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Well,
Yeah, you keep the Core, there's no question of that. But say you have a perfect 6 31's Zygarde? You take it apart and it's gone forever.
I'm not saying this is a problem--- if it was a problem then the ability to Release Pokemon would also be a problem. I'm just saying it's unusual that we're able to remove Pokemon from the game, permanently, at all.