XY Sky Battles

[Hiryunix]

on the list above and farfetch'd isn't mentioned for being banned in this meta. It's technically a grounded bird (sprite) and illegal in game. Not that it makes a lot of impact, Just as some general knowledge base.
also I would like to touch up on crobat a bit more and why it is going to be awesome in this meta.

Crobat is one of the fastest pokemon in the tier only outsped by mega aerodactyl and ninjask.(ties with regular aero)

That's just one of its many perks of of being awesome.


Nextly, it has access to powerful supporting moves like haze, defog(post bank) taunt, mean look, confuse ray and u-turn.

That means this bat is the fastest defogger/hazer in the meta.​

​

Thanks to stealth rock consistently being a problem, a nice defog mean look can let me set up on their switch in.

Confuse ray can cause major problems to the sweepers of the game
(charizard, hydreigon, cryoganal)
and taunt can shut down leads and attempted walls not name gyrados.

It has not to shabby bulk sitting comfortably at 85/80/80 letting it take a 1-2 hits before it goes down.

Also, thanks to fairies running around everywhere his poison typing can now shine. Togekiss may be a threat, but to crobat its just another poke to shut down.

Even gyrados will fear it after pokebank thanks to insuring half health damage with super fang.

Like I originally said, crobat is going to be pretty big in this meta.
Edit: just made some clean up to make it easier to read.

 

[Vryheid]

There are no Pokémon in this meta that get Stealth Rock until Pokémon Bank is released. And at that point, pretty much everything can learn Defog.

Well it just so happens that despite being listed as "illegal" in the teambuilder, pretty much everything that learns the move can use it in battles (good luck EVER stopping Aerodactyl from setting up) and it's absolutely infuriating to deal with. Seriously, we could be using fun Pokemon like Charizard and Articuno, but nope, every frigging match we have to deal with Stealth Rock. Ironically, only the three Pokemon which can legitimately learn Defog pre-Pokebank are able to make use of it, and only Mandibuzz is capable of preventing Skarmory from simply setting up the rocks again.

Also, Defog isn't a very good answer to SR because it forces you to give up your own rocks in the process (which are extremely important to have up in Sky Battles). You're simply putting yourself on even ground, not really punishing the other player for their mistakes.

I feel like SR should be banned from the metagame entirely because of the complete lack of Rapid Spin and how devastating it is to a significant portion of the Pokemon available.

 

[GoldenSandslash15]

I don't think it should be banned per say, I just think it needs to be fixed so that nothing gets it pre-Bank.

 

[Hiryunix]

Well Personally I agree with a stealth rock banning.
Isn't the whole point of banning things in meta games to prevent over centralization?

Unfortunately people Have to reserve a spot on their team to take care of ONE move.

As for valid rapid spinners only two pokemon even have it,
Claydol(unobtainable till pokebank)
and cyroganal(which is weak to it and too slow to abuse it.)

Now for defog the problems I see is the fact that you have to use it to clear both sides and the only pokemon fast enough or bulky enough to land it is crobat, and mandibuzz.

Not even mentioning pre bank post bank on who gets defog because any other user can't really use it without being onslaughted by aerodactyl.

Only one pokemon gets magic bounce and that's xatu. Xatu can't take %25 health AND a super effective hit.

No pokemon learn magic coat.

So we have to use a choice of 4 pokemon just to counter (again) One Move.

Let me show you how many pokemon take damage to SR compared to those who don't.

69/83 pokemon take at least %25 damage...
That's %83 of this meta that just takes it.
That means only 14 pokemon actually take normal damage or resist.
(a whopping %17 of the game)


this is raw numbers not excluding pre evos.
​

Hopefully you see where the number of pokemon that are usable Quickly decreases.

We shouldn't have to focus a flying based meta game around countering and setting up (last time I promise) ONE MOVE!

This move is dangerous and hard to check. there is no guarantee that your checks can even stop their sweeper before it takes out your defogger.

that's my two cents.

Edit: just doing some clean up work to make my post easier to read.

 

[Temporaryanonymous]

Pretty fun meta. From what I've seen, it seems to be a pretty specially based meta with Rotom-W, Zapdos, Togekiss, and Charizard as very strong contenders.

Zapdos in particular because of its lightning quick speed and decent special attack. It also is immune to Thunder wave and decently counters Rotom-W and Togekiss. A scarf or LO set is very scary as it has a wide range of coverage and also has the momentum to switch.

 

[GoldenSandslash15]

I don't think that Stealth Rock would be overcentralized if it worked as intended, with NOTHING learning it. Its usage would be 0%.

I vote fix, not ban. At least until Pokémon Bank comes out. Post-bank, its only users are Aerodactyl, Archeops, Skarmory, Solrock, Lunatone, Gligar, Gliscor, Bronzor, and Bronzong.

And Defog is available to FORTY different Sky Pokémon post-Bank.

 

[Arcticblast]

Y'know, nothing is going to happen if you don't let Joim know there's a problem by tagging him or sending him a message...

(paging Joim)

 

[Joim]

I think the banlist is proper now, isn't it?

 

[Vryheid]

I think the banlist is proper now, isn't it?

Nope, I just saw a guy using Gliscor with Stealth Rock. And a Dragonite using Extremespeed. How the hell is that even possible when I can't use MY Dragonite's Extremespeed on exactly the same ladder? Are they somehow bypassing the ban check?

 

[Hiryunix]

paging Joim People are bypassing the fix :/

 

[Tolkienist]

Can we post sky battle-specific sets here, or should that go somewhere else? Guess I'll go for it, remove if appropriate and please accept my apologies (I'm pretty new here). I've been sweeping people with a sky-specific Gliscor:
Gliscor Toxic Orb
Poison Heal
252 HP, 4 Atk, 252 Def (+def, -SA)
-Swords Dance
-Agility
-Protect
-Ice Fang
Lead him or bring him in on a predicted electric or physical attack, SR is no big deal. Alternate protect with boosting as you see fit - in my experiences, agility should go first, since you can then outspeed almost everything (if you want to start attacking before boosting attack), but I'm not sure it really matters so much. Watch out for special attacks, since they'll still hurt lots, but once you've got a few boosts in you're nearly unstoppable. Ice fang has near-perfect coverage (neutral or SE against all but bronzong I think) and even uninvested it hits pretty hard with the boosts off 95 base attack.

Also, pretty much everyone is using SR skarmory - not sure if skarm learns it in XY or if that's another fix-bypasser.

 

[Temporaryanonymous]

Laddered a bit more, got to nearly 1800 (would be higher if I didn't lose a few early games), and saw a lot more deadly strategies. It's very interesting seeing how much of a rock/papers/scissors meta is created in a pool with a select pokemon. Things like Emolga and Flygon function very well in sky battles, showing a jump in usage tiers (assuming sky battles had OU, UU, NU), and other old favorites like Gyarados and Talonflame still function very well.

 

[Loudo]

Stuff not weak to any of the "big 3" (Electric, Ice, Rock)
Azelf (*)
Bronzong (also resists Ice and Rock)
Chimecho
Cresselia (*)
Duskull
Eelektross (also resists Electric) (*)
Haunter
Lunatone
Mesprit (*)
Misdreavus/Mismagius (*)
Rotom-W (also resists Ice)
Solrock
Unown (*)
Uxie (*)
Weezing (*)

(*) Still unreleased

Hopefully we should get more choice soon.


Cryogonal is indeed very scary, I've just been swept by one. XD
I think Gliscor's only usable offensive set involves Acrobatics + Fling.

 

[Hiryunix]

Laddered a bit more, got to nearly 1800 (would be higher if I didn't lose a few early games), and saw a lot more deadly strategies. It's very interesting seeing how much of a rock/papers/scissors meta is created in a pool with a select pokemon. Things like Emolga and Flygon function very well in sky battles, showing a jump in usage tiers (assuming sky battles had OU, UU, NU), and other old favorites like Gyarados and Talonflame still function very well.

I think you have battled me :D.

I like flygon because of it taking so little damage from stealth rock, and it can hit hard back with a choice set.
it has access to great moves like stone edge and believe it or not superpower is quite useful against cyroganal.
the main downsides to flygon is that he can't use his awesome ground type stab in the air,
and taking x4 to ice in exchange for electric immunity and rock resistance.

Emogla is awesome in this metagame! At first I was a little worried that it would be too frail to use even here,
but luckily I was wrong. Emolga gets a real chance of being a great support pokemon thanks to motor drive + voltswitch.
it has respectable speed and tuant/encore can shut down pokemon attempting to use me as set up fodder.

I could go on but i'll save you the reading.

as for the main three types I think the best approach isn't to slap on one member that resist all three but have a pokemon for each move.
here is my resist core I have been using (not that it matters)

Flygon + mantine + charizard Y

Flygon can absorb thunderbolts and stone edges aimed at charizard Y and mantine.

mantine can absorb random ice beams and draco meteors.

charizard Y can take down cyroganal with flamethrower and Mega evolved gyrados with solar beam.

here is how my team is supposed to work.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/skybattles-67509015

 

[hobo bob]

Maybe I am missing something but shouldn't Rotom be an auto pick due to it's typing? It resists flying, has access to STAB super effective volt-turn as well as the various formes to switch things up. Aerodactyl also seems like it would be a huge threat (especially his Mega) due to his blistering speed and rock typing.

Conversely, I would speculate that pokemon with types who are weak to flying would struggle in this meta. Things like Hawlucha which would be otherwise good would face difficulty because nearly everything would be able to hit it for super effective.

I feel like SR should be banned from the metagame entirely because of the complete lack of Rapid Spin and how devastating it is to a significant portion of the Pokemon available.

I would have to agree. Stealth rock seems like it would be too centralizing in this meta game. Excluding dual typings which are neutral to rock and a few leviatators, rocks would damage every team member for at least a quarter of their HP and the only way to get rid of it would be through Defog. This of course is easily stopped by a fast taunt user such as Aerodactyl, who conveniently also has access to Stealth Rocks

 

[Loudo]

Hawlucha has a much more pressing problem: it can't be used in Sky Battles. =P

the only way to get rid of it would be through Defog. This of course is easily stopped by a fast taunt user such as Aerodactyl, who conveniently also has access to Stealth Rocks

Rapid Spin can also get rid of Stealth Rock and it can't be stopped by Taunt.

 

[hobo bob]

I feel like SR should be banned from the metagame entirely because of the complete lack of Rapid Spin and how devastating it is to a significant portion of the Pokemon available.

I don't think that Stealth Rock would be overcentralized if it worked as intended, with NOTHING learning it. Its usage would be 0%.

I vote fix, not ban. At least until Pokémon Bank comes out. Post-bank, its only users are Aerodactyl, Archeops, Skarmory, Solrock, Lunatone, Gligar, Gliscor, Bronzor, and Bronzong.

And Defog is available to FORTY different Sky Pokémon post-Bank.

Discussing Policy changes for Pre-bank is kind of a moot point since that meta will be irrelevant in a few weeks. We might as well talk about post-bank since it is almost here. Not that I am trying to suggest we stop discussion about pre-bank strategy.

Hawlucha has a much more pressing problem: it can't be used in Sky Battles. =P


Rapid Spin can also get rid of Stealth Rock and it can't be stopped by Taunt.

I forgot Cryogonal gets Rapid Spin. Are there any other users which are legal in Sky Battles? If not, then Cryo is the one exception.

 

[Hiryunix]

this is another case of "tl;dr"
I literally covered that in an above post.

defoggers outside of crobat and mandibuzz are either too slow or not bulky enough leaving them open for sweepers to prevent them from using them.

rapid spinners available are claydol(postbank) and cyroganal.

%83 of the meta takes at least %25 health.

and xatu is easily pushed aside before it can bounce back SR.

if you want to hear my entire rant see my above post.

How is this not over centralizing?
even with "FORTY different Sky Pokémon post-Bank" only 4 Pokemon can actually survive and remove them.

 

[Hiryunix]

Uh, forgetting about gliscor, skarmory, lunatone, solrock, bronzong?
gliscor is not going anywhere and neither is skarmory.
lunatone and solrock could be overlooked but their rock stab alone makes them viable.
Rock type is hardly terrible in this meta as you put Rayquaza_ .
and really? no love for bronzong?
and I guess there is archeops... but its a waste of a move on this light-hearted, feathered lizard.

But I see your point on its users being weak to rotom. The thing is mean.

 

[McGrrr]

Sup.

Bronzong @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Rock Slide / Gyro Ball
- Explosion / Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock
- Trick Room

Honchkrow @ Choice Band
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Def / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Sucker Punch
- Brave Bird
- Drill Peck
- Night Slash

Max defense to always survive Choice Band Adamant Brave Bird from Talonflame.

Zapdos @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 232 HP / 24 Def
Quiet Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def / 0 Spd
- Thunderbolt
- Charge Beam
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roost

 

[KnightK]

Sup.

Bronzong @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Rock Slide / Gyro Ball
- Explosion / Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock
- Trick Room

Honchkrow @ Choice Band
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Def / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Sucker Punch
- Brave Bird
- Drill Peck
- Night Slash

Max defense to always survive Choice Band Adamant Brave Bird from Talonflame.

Zapdos @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 232 HP / 24 Def
Quiet Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def / 0 Spd
- Thunderbolt
- Charge Beam
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roost

Good sets. I am seeing more and more trick room bronzongs lately. And I haven't yet used honchkrow, I find it hard to fit the poor guy in with salamence and (mega) gyarados being so tempting. Really the only potential problems I see are banded sucker punch as almost every team has pokemon with dragon dance that would love to set up on that. And I personally prefer toxic over charge beam to wear down the oh so common Rotoms, Toxic+Roost wears down the bulkiest of rotoms, and if/when they switch out you are at least over half health.

 

[Qwilphish]

Great sets everyone! I have to chime in that Cryogonal is one of the best Pokemon in the tier not because of its excellent Spinning abilities, but because of its ability to beat one of the most annoying Pokemon in the tier, Rotom-W. Of course, anything that can outspeed/tank a hit from Cryo and hit it with a Physical Attack (eg Talonflame), can check Cryo easily.

All of the sets I've seen so far for Cryo have been Offensive, however I'm wondering just how effective a Specially Defensive set would be considering its giant SpD stat. It would be able to take on the Electric types that roam around the tier as well as other various special attackers.

Speaking of Spinning, I don't think that Stealth Rock is that broken. The reason is because of the fact that Spinning is so easy to do as well as the fact that many Pokemon are already pretty fragile that the extra 25% often doesn't make a difference (at least from my experience). Is Stealth Rock an extremely powerful asset to every team? Yes. Do I think that it is broken? I don't think so, although I definitely can say that the dominance of Stealth Rock will go down Postbank when the number of Defog users increase significantly.

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

Apparently it doesn't blanket ban all Ground moves... Does that mean that moves like Mud Shot and Bone Rush actually work? (When used against a Mega Charizard X or something)

 

[Hiryunix]

Nope not all ground type moves are unusable, but who would use them against flying and levitating pokemon!? Another notable ground move that isn't illegal is sand tomb.

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

Nope not all ground type moves are unusable, but who would use them against flying and levitating pokemon!? Another notable ground move that isn't illegal is sand tomb.

Maybe in Inverse Sky Battles? lol