Weavile

[trc]

I may be missing something, but isn't Icicle Crash illegal with Low Kick, since Low Kick is a 5th gen tutor, and Icicle Crash is a 6th Gen egg move? Since Low Kick is non-negotiable, I think Ice Punch should get the second slash after Knock Off.

Well that's annoying. Now it misses the 2HKO on Tangrowth, among other things.

 

[Duck with a Stick]

Overview
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Weavile is, for the most part, a forgotten offensive threat. However, it actually functions very well in the Overused metagame due to its high Attack stat and immense base 125 Speed, the latter of which allows it to outspeed the majority of the unboosted metagame. In addition, its typing gives it great dual STAB coverage. Weavile also has great utility, as it can Pursuit trap Psychic- and Ghost-types effectively, as well as revenge kill a multitude of threats with its high Speed and Ice Shard. While Weavile has great offensive potential, it also has virtually nonexistent bulk, taking even neutral hits badly. Its typing gives it an unfortunate weakness to Stealth Rock, a 4x weakness to the common Fighting-type moves, and weaknesses to two common priority moves: Bullet Punch and Mach Punch. Nevertheless, Weavile can provide great support as a revenge killer and a Pursuit trapper, so it is definitely a threat to look out for in Overused.

Life Orb
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name: Life Orb Trapper
move 1: Pursuit
move 2: Ice Shard
move 3: Knock Off / Ice Punch
move 4: Low Kick
ability: Pressure
item: Life Orb
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly

Moves
========
Weavile has everything it needs to perform its role effectively. Pursuit lets Weavile weaken or eliminate many Psychic- and Ghost-type Pokemon, such as Gengar, Latios, Celebi, and Starmie. Ice Shard allows Weavile to revenge kill many threats, such as Garchomp, Landorus-T, and Noivern, as well as faster threats such as Choice Scarf Salamence and Venusaur in sun. Knock Off provides a reasonably powerful Dark-type STAB while having great utility in removing a foe's item. Alternatively, Ice Punch can be used as a powerful Ice-type STAB for taking out Gliscor, Landorus-T, and Garchomp. Low Kick rounds off Weavile's coverage as its best option against Heatran, Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, and Terrakion; it also deals reasonably well with other Steel-types.

Set Details
========
Life Orb is the standard item for a frail sweeper, combining power with the ability to switch moves. The EVs give Weavile the most power and Speed it can have, and the Jolly nature allows Weavile to outspeed Timid Starmie, Timid Latios, and Timid Gengar. The remaining 4 EVs are invested into Defense to minimize Stealth Rock damage.

Usage Tips
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Weavile primarily plays as a hit-and-run attacker, as it has high offensive stats but often can't stay in for long because of its frailty. In general, Weavile's main role is to Pursuit trap, which it does effectively. Switch it in on a Pokemon that bothers your team but is weak to Pursuit, such as Jirachi, and Pursuit trap it so it is no longer a threat to your team. Between its high Speed and access to Ice Shard, Weavile also functions as a great revenge killer; it is especially good at checking Pokemon 4x weak to Ice, such as Salamence, Garchomp, and Landorus-T. Weavile's main STAB move is often powerful enough to revenge weakened neutral threats, but you can also try and predict the switch-in by using a move more suited to taking down that Pokemon instead. Knock Off is great to use in this situation as, at the very least, you will remove an opposing Pokemon's item. When a Pokemon that threatens Weavile comes in, simply switch out and come in again later when needed.

Team Options
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Because of Weavile's ability to Pursuit trap, good teammates are Pokemon that can benefit from having Psychic- and Ghost-type Pokemon gone. Lucario, Thundurus-T, and Starmie all appreciate these Pokemon removed; Lucario in particular has reasonable synergy with Weavile. It is almost mandatory to have Rapid Spin support to manage Weavile's Stealth Rock weakness, so Tentacruel and Starmie are good partners. Tentacruel in particular has great defensive synergy with Weavile, as Tentacruel can take the Fighting- and Fire-type attacks aimed at Weavile and Weavile can eliminate the Ground- and Grass-type Pokemon that give Tentacruel trouble. Anything that appreciates Pursuit and Ice Shard support makes a good partner; Keldeo appreciates Weavile's ability to remove Celebi, Jellicent, and Latios, and Keldeo can also eliminate some of Weavile's counters, such as Skarmory and Forretress.

Other Options
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Weavile can run a Swords Dance set to boost its Attack to great levels, setting up when it forces something out, but this strategy is very risky due to Weavile's frailty and it relies heavily on prediction. Choice Band can enable Weavile to hit with more power, especially with Pursuit if the opponent tries to stay in, but it makes Weavile very easy to play around. Weavile can learn Icicle Crash, which is more powerful than Ice Punch, but it is illegal with Low Kick, which is an essential move. Finally, Weavile can run a gimmicky Focus Sash + Fake Out + Counter set, but dedicated leads are uncommon and this set doesn't really take advantage of Weavile's defining qualities, so it is generally inferior.

Checks & Counters
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**Mach Punch**: Mach Punch users that don't take much from Ice Shard can easily KO Weavile due to its 4x weakness to Fighting. This includes Conkeldurr and Infernape; Infernape in particular resists Ice Shard. A healthy Breloom can check Weavile with Mach Punch, but as it takes around 80% damage from Ice Shard, it is a shaky check at best.

**Choice Scarf Users**: Choice Scarf users that can outspeed and KO Weavile while also taking little damage from Ice Shard, such as Terrakion, Keldeo, Genesect, and Magneton are very effective checks.

**Offensive Threats**: Pokemon that can take all of Weavile's moves and KO back or use it as setup bait are good counters. This includes Infernape and Conkeldurr due to Mach Punch and Fighting STAB, Azumarill due to Play Rough, and Gyarados, which can set up Substitute and Dragon Dances against Weavile.

**Defensive Threats**: Many bulky Steel-types, such as Skarmory and Forretress, can wall Weavile. In addition to that, many Pokemon with reasonable bulk can capitalize on Weavile's relatively low-powered moves. Examples include Chansey, Keldeo, Vaporeon, and Rotom-W. Tangrowth and Hippowdon can check variants without Icicle Crash. Politoed, Tentacruel, and Avalugg also shrug off Weavile's moves; the first two can KO Weavile with rain-boosted attacks, while the third can retaliate with Gyro Ball or simply Recover off the damage. There are many defensive threats that Weavile just cannot break through.

**Stealth Rock**: As Weavile is weak to Stealth Rock and also takes Life Orb damage, it can be worn down very quickly. Anything that can set up Stealth Rock can seriously damage Weavile's ability to do its job effectively. This includes Forretress, Excadrill, and Terrakion.

You might want to replace 'due to' in the Checks and Counters (highlighted red) with 'because of', but only if you write from the perspective of Weavile's opponents ('due to' sounds so negative). However, if you write this from the Weavile's perspective, leave it this way.

Also, I think you should mention Scizor, who takes little from Ice Shard and destroys with Bullet Punch.

 

[Photo]

Lead Beat Up Weavile probably deserves a mention. Pretty effective lead with access to Fake Out/Knock Off for sashes, Taunt and Ice Shard. Instead of sash, you could also mention King's Rock which gives a ridiculously high flinch chance with Beat Up and can be combined with Fling for an auto-flinch.

 

[Alphanex20]

As a counter I think Mega Scizor deserves a mention, Night Slash and Low Kick don't even do 40% to a 248 HP variant, and meanwhile it can OHKO Weavile with Bullet Punch. Knock Off does not get its power boost due to the Mega Stone, and it can also Roost in Weavile's face. Fake Out is also nifty for picking things off that have priority (notably it can finish off a Talonflame weakened by its own recoil).

 

[noivern]

You should also mention Power-Up Punch somewhere.

 

[trc]

Removed mentions of Genesect and Mega Lucario.

 

[DiabloStorm]

Move the 4 HP into Def; if I'm not mistaken, Weavile takes less damage from Stealth Rock that way. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

Since when was stealth rock changed from percentage based damage? Defense wont do anything. I sure hope these QC checks aren't being rushed...

Also, what possible advantage does Pressure have over Pick Pocket?

 

[Sugarcube]

Since when was stealth rock changed from percentage based damage? Defense wont do anything. I sure hope these QC checks aren't being rushed...

Also, what possible advantage does Pressure have over Pick Pocket?

The Stealth Rock damage would be the same, 4 HP or none. 281 and 282 are not multiples of 4, but it would make a difference if SR and 3 layers of spikes are set up.

Pickpocket is useless considering Weavile is holding a Life Orb. While Weavile shouldn't be Pressure stalling, at least it has some use.

 

[DiabloStorm]

The Stealth Rock damage would be the same, 4 HP or none. 281 and 282 are not multiples of 4.

Pickpocket is useless considering Weavile is holding a Life Orb. While Weavile shouldn't be Pressure stalling, at least it has some use.

Knock off was buffed, it would find use in Pick Pocket if by chance it ends up tanking a Knock Off, as marginal as a benefit as that is, I can't really see Pressure being much better.

The reasoning for the 4 def EVs should be either removed or reworded to give a valid reason because right now it's just plain incorrect and misleading.

 

[Sugarcube]

Knock off was buffed, it would find use in Pick Pocket if by chance it ends up tanking a Knock Off, as marginal as a benefit as that is, I can't really see Pressure being much better.

Hmm interesting point.
There may be some items Weavile might not want to steal though.

 

[Unowninator]

Knock off was buffed, it would find use in Pick Pocket if by chance it ends up tanking a Knock Off, as marginal as a benefit as that is, I can't really see Pressure being much better.

The reasoning for the 4 def EVs should be either removed or reworded to give a valid reason because right now it's just plain incorrect and misleading.

Yeah, I just experimented w/ Pickpocket & if it's hit with Knock Off, it'll take the foe's item on the same turn. So unless you're using gen 4 moves, I'd definitely make Pickpocket the primary ability.

 

[trc]

Knock Off is a gen 4 move.

 

[Jukain]

it is a bw2 tutor, not a gen 4-only move.

 

[DiabloStorm]

Yeah, I just experimented w/ Pickpocket & if it's hit with Knock Off, it'll take the foe's item on the same turn. So unless you're using gen 4 moves, I'd definitely make Pickpocket the primary ability.

You should check out focus sash ;) The more I think about this, the more I wonder why this got past QC :P

 

[trc]

You should check out focus sash ;) The more I think about this, the more I wonder why this got past QC :P

Excuse me? It shouldn't have not gone past QC because a useless ability wasn't mentioned? Pickpocket is niche, unlikely, and almost all Knock Off users have a way of hurting Weavile anyway. And Focus Sash? Really? When Weavile wants it's power boosted, it would prefer a Focus Sash? Yeah, this is a terrible analysis, please reassign >.<

 

[DiabloStorm]

Excuse me? It shouldn't have not gone past QC because a useless ability wasn't mentioned? Pickpocket is niche, unlikely, and almost all Knock Off users have a way of hurting Weavile anyway. And Focus Sash? Really? When Weavile wants it's power boosted, it would prefer a Focus Sash? Yeah, this is a terrible analysis, please reassign >.<

*Sigh* You're really gonna make me give up my secrets just to enlighten you aren't you.
Run swords dance on a focus sash set, predict and revenge a choice band/scarf user.
You switch in, swords dance, sash pops, you now have +2 attack and potentially a choice band.
Unless you're locked into swords dance and I believe you aren't, you can then choose what you want to sweep with.
So yeah, you were saying? Or are choice items suddenly not common this gen? I doubt that. There's always leftovers, and the fact that you're denying the opponent an item. I can think of way more useful things to do with Pickpocket than I can with Pressure, yet your analysis doesn't mention exactly how pressure is utilized, oddly enough.

Looking back, it seems this set helps counter some of your set's counters, explain how that's "useless?" I'm curious.
With good prediction this could be a pretty nasty surprise, and it would be a good item disruptor either by tanking knockoffs or by using it's own.

 

[Ash Borer]

a weavile at +2 and 1 hp is not threatening. Any iota of priority or choice scarf runs over it.

Sash weavile is garbo, it needs the power life orb confers.

 

[DiabloStorm]

a weavile at +2 and 1 hp is not threatening. Any iota of priority or choice scarf runs over it.

Sash weavile is garbo, it needs the power life orb confers.

Your opinion and you'll want to stick with your life orb, then. The sash is just another option. Either way, the point is, Pressure should never be used.

Also "garbo" is a pretty poor argument, but I could only hope that goes without saying.

 

[Snowflakes]

As a counter I think Mega Scizor deserves a mention, Night Slash and Low Kick don't even do 40% to a 248 HP variant, and meanwhile it can OHKO Weavile with Bullet Punch. Knock Off does not get its power boost due to the Mega Stone, and it can also Roost in Weavile's face. Fake Out is also nifty for picking things off that have priority (notably it can finish off a Talonflame weakened by its own recoil).

knock off gets power boost if the guy has an item, not if it knocks it off. as for sash weavile i'd say it's a nuisance at best.

 

[trc]

The point is exactly what Ash Borer said, SD Weavile is bad because it finds so few setup opportunities without a sash, and with a sash it isn't powerful and it can be revenged by literally any priority move or anything faster than it.

Also, Pressure has some utility if using Weavile to Pursuit trap threats to something that can stall out other foes. Pickpocket is incredibly situational, barely useful, and honestly terrible.

Give up your secrets to enlighten me... this secret wasn't worth sharing.

I don't need to mention Pressure since the set doesn't utilize it, it is merely a helpful benefit.

It doesn't help with any of Weavile's counters.

This analysis is DONE. Please refrain from posting in this thread from hereon.

 

[DiabloStorm]

The point is exactly what Ash Borer said, SD Weavile is bad because it finds so few setup opportunities without a sash, and with a sash it isn't powerful and it can be revenged by literally any priority move or anything faster than it.

Also, Pressure has some utility if using Weavile to Pursuit trap threats to something that can stall out other foes. Pickpocket is incredibly situational, barely useful, and honestly terrible.

Give up your secrets to enlighten me... this secret wasn't worth sharing.

I don't need to mention Pressure since the set doesn't utilize it, it is merely a helpful benefit.

It doesn't help with any of Weavile's counters.

This analysis is DONE. Please refrain from posting in this thread from hereon.

Lol The sash set laughs at Mach punch which you listed as a counter. Weavile has it's own priority moves and if it steals a choice scarf it will outspeed other priority users, not to mention that it has fake out. You don't need to mention pressure because it's completely worthless, Weavile isn't going to pressure stall anything. Try again.

Even with life orb, Pickpocket is superior.

 

[trc]

Lol The sash set laughs at Mach punch which you listed as a counter. Weavile has it's own priority moves and if it steals a choice scarf it will outspeed other priority users, not to mention that it has fake out. You don't need to mention pressure because it's completely worthless, Weavile isn't going to pressure stall anything. Try again.

Even with life orb, Pickpocket is superior.

Did you read anything I said? The sash set doesn't laugh at Mach Punch, because Mach punch will kill it if it's down to it's sash. Scarfed priority is a terrible idea. Fake out sucks so badly, especially if you're locked into it? Why would you want to. E locked into fake out? Also, weavile doesn't pressure stall anything, I never said it did, I said it has niche use with teammates over pickpocket, which will never be good. Sorry, I will not belabor any further.

 

[DiabloStorm]

Did you read anything I said? The sash set doesn't laugh at Mach Punch, because Mach punch will kill it if it's down to it's sash. Scarfed priority is a terrible idea. Fake out sucks so badly, especially if you're locked into it? Why would you want to. E locked into fake out? Also, weavile doesn't pressure stall anything, I never said it did, I said it has niche use with teammates over pickpocket, which will never be good. Sorry, I will not belabor any further.

How exactly would you be locked into fake out without a choice item? You'd use it before swords dance, I thought that was completely obvious. It seems you have some fundamental misunderstanding of how this actually works. You're also trying to argue in favor of an ability that has absolutely no use in comparison and you don't even have a valid reason as to why which is kinda funny, really.

 

[Lunyck]

Pickpocket rarely activates due to weavile's paper thin defenses, so the choice between that and pressure is kind of just personal preference.
I think that focus sash could at least get a mention in OO as it could help you in revenge killing scarfers and get and getting and extra hit on priority users.(if it was already mentioned in OO, I'm sorry because I don't know how to read)even without life orb, weavile can still bring about chaos... But that's just me

 

[Unowninator]

What about using Beat Up? I mean, if you still have your other 5 Pokemon, it's power will be a total of 102. Stronger than Knock Off, and if you lead with Weavile often, its power will almost always be the max.