Factos, people wanna change a perfect format already because this is boring apparently, then why on earth are we considering the most boring tier ever, I don’t get it. I also strongly support Soulwind’s post where he says that nobody supports SS OU and masters tiers are not needed, people will still be re using teams and then, we’re back to the initial issue that the format isn’t fun to watch and play. Voting on 1 (but still pro CG OU) even though I don’t support both of these ideas (speaking on behalf of myself and some other people that don’t want to argue with a doomed format anymore )1 but erase SS and put DOU there
Noone wants to have SS here, listen to the people
Excellent point: why don't we just do six CG OU, remove DOU/ORAS, and go with SS/SM + UU Ubers? That's still ten slots like everyone wanted, and honestly we can't just see SS/SM and have to add ORAS in the mix. Maintaining a majority for CG OU also allows the smaller teams that have expressed their views to maintain a bit of stability, for this year at least, and have a bit less shaking withing their teams.Out of curiosity why isn’t 6 CG OU + 2 old gens + 2 lower tiers an option - helps maintain the CG OU majority that many people seem to still want but adding the concession of some variety with other tiers. Masters gens in this format is not sustainable once Gen 10 arrives so you’ll have to eventually just say x amount of old gens are included.
I agree with most of the sentiment in this post, which leads to my confusion on the tiers provided before it. Why put forth the most spread out set of tiers/generations when it's enjoyable seeing trends like "German 6" with a common teambuilding style from a region shine? I can see the appeal in working in the "popular" oldgens, while not directly hopping around generations and slightly reducing the amount of "fodder games" with RBY and GSC out-- it's just, unfortunately, working off the assumption people have a wide range of players to choose from.Adv
Dpp
Bw
Oras
Sm
Ss
Ubers
Uu
2 svou
Doubles is foreign to countless tour players and spectators. They operate so autonomously that I believe doubles slots aren’t reflective of a countries commitment to Pokémon excellence, at least not enough to include them in this tour. It’s thrilling to watch new gen slots cook and various teams be true to their identities through the teams that they use. This past year the Germans demonstrated their dominance in current gens by spamming a single team through qualifiers and anyone in touch with the tour community recognizes the association of Italy with cheese, Northeast with balance, US west with strong offensive teams and countless other regional signifiers. It’s associations like this that make World Cup exciting every year and I don’t think the nature of doubles adds to this in any capacity. Every tournament that I’ve played with a doubles slot has had them operate entirely with their goon(s) and independently from the team. A tournament like World Cup requires people who will vibe with team culture and keep chats active year round with metagame discussions. I think one of the wonders of team tournaments is the impact that you can have on your team as a sub or bench slot with a cool tech, idea or team. Doubles inherently hinders this quality because they aren’t as inclined to speak with singles players over their doubles jerks, and may not be able to substantially contribute to to important metagame discussions results in them being a detriment to the team and the tournament overall as they are taking up a team slot of a more ambitious and up to date singles player.
It seems completely impractical to include all old gens; they'd take up 8 slots. Instead, there is a 3rd option you didn't mention which would be incorporating as many old gens as possible while still ensuring at least half the slots stay SV OU. If this were to be followed, the possibilities are:Either you incorporate the most recent old gens, or you include all the old gens.
Reiterating this again, team Bangladesh supports 5 SV OU, SS OU, SM OU, ORAS OU, SV UU, SV Ubers (or 3 SV OU for 8 slots).As for team Bangladesh's piece on this, here's how we believe this should go [5xSV, SS, SM, ORAS] > [Some combination of currrent gen ou uu ru] > [Some combination of SV OU, SV DOU, and other SV/ old gen tiers]. DOU is the absolute worst case for us because of our limited playerbase it is incredibly hard to find skilled and passionate players and as a result we tend to add promising new players under the guidance of our existing OU players who can guide them through the prepping process with their knowledge of the metagames allowing the players to bridge the gaps between players with far more experience. In the case of DOU, there will be absolutely no one to guide or in the case of an atleast semi-competent DOU player, even suggest teams for them and they'd just be sitting and playing alone with no interaction with the rest of the team whatsoever. Not to mention finding someone who fits both the criteria of being a skilled player and also passionate enough to play with 0 interaction from the rest of the team is also not an easy task given the limited size of ours and many other smaller communities.
Also I physically cringed at the fact that the countries with a less dominant playerbase are being told / inferred "If you cant get players for xyz tiers you shouldn't sign up". WCoP is an inclusive tournament that ideally allows all nations to have a chance of winning the tournament, of course that is not the case because some nations have a much more dominant playerbase, but it should always allow all teams to have equal odds in winning in theory. This should be done by having tiers that most of the playerbase can easily pick up and play at a high level, which sadly DOU is not at the moment, since it is vastly different than singles format. Also the statement itself is literally a fucking double standard when you need to make 4 separate teams for USA for having an overstacked roster but that's a story for another thread. Adding a tier that is vastly different than the singles metagames the previous iteration of the tour had skews the balance heavily on teams that have a higher DOU playerbase. Moreover, the timing is also too late, if we learn the tier in the 2-ish months, we will still be heavily disadvantaged from teams that have a more solidified playerbase.
I also agree with Genesis7 's argument that the DOU players will have an island of their own and most of the players will be unable to either A. Give their input at all, or B. Give optimal inputs. Some posts I've seen here claim that Pokemon is Pokemon and cannot differentiate between singles or doubles, but you're either a very exceptional player or just a straight up idiot trying to give bullshit logic, no matter what you say, singles and doubles are vastly different. However, I am open to the idea of introducing DOU to WCoP 2025, but it is too late for a change this drastic.
There is not going to be a Classic Bo5 slot or a stray ADV slot.We'd like to refocus discussion to be between the originally proposed formats:
1. 5 SV OU, SS OU, SM OU, ORAS OU, SV Ubers, SV UU
2. 4 SV OU, SS OU, SM OU, ORAS OU, SV Ubers, SV UU, SV DOU
Team Europe largely favors format 1 (5 SV OU) over format 2 (SV DOU).Following the post yesterday, it's become clear that a large part of the community, consisting of both big and small teams, don’t favor the proposed tier pick format. While it was an interesting idea, such a radical change isn’t tenable with this much opposition to it. We'd like to refocus discussion to be between the originally proposed formats:
1. 5 SV OU, SS OU, SM OU, ORAS OU, SV Ubers, SV UU
2. 4 SV OU, SS OU, SM OU, ORAS OU, SV Ubers, SV UU, SV DOU
The rules around continental teams as well as pools versus groups will be separate discussions. We will be working to resolve the former while this thread is ongoing to finalize tiers. We will be posting a new thread on pools vs groups and figuring out the according format for qualifiers/main stage following the conclusion of the this thread.