Hey everyone. The Unlucky One here, with a fun new thread called “Victim of the Week.” The point of this thread is similar to Hawkstar’s thread, but approaches it in the opposite direction. Basically, in an attempt to better acquaint players with the finer aspects of teambuilding, each week I will be choosing a major threat and we as a community will address ways to deal with this threat. The goal of this thread is to provide players with new answers to large threats while simultaneously broadening our scope of viable mons and sets. A suitable answer could be anything from just replacing a move on an already popular set, shifting EV’s to avoid or net OHKO’s or a totally customized set specifically to shut down the threat, but your posts should definitely include detailed explanations of what you're saying.
Drilbur
60 HP / 85 Atk / 40 Def / 30 SpA / 45 SDef / 68 Spe
Abilities: Sand Rush/ Sand Force / Mold Breaker
The first major threat we’ll be discussing is the infamous Drilbur. In sand it outspeeds the metagame by a wide margin, making many slower scarfers obsolete. Its offensive movepool, though shallow, provides it with just the right tools to 2HKO the entire meta after a swords dance boost. It can also opt for more immediate power with a Life Orb, opening up an extra slot for coverage on the few things that resist its EdgeQuake combo. To top it off, it also has the ability run an offensive support set outside of the sand, making it threatening even outside of the sand. As of now, the number one way to deal with Drilbur involves removing sand, and hitting it with strong, stab boosted super effective hits, with mons such as Snover. Priority moves, most specifically aqua jet, can also make dealing with Drilbur easy. However, the recently released Mold Breaker ability has allowed drilbur to break past many of its checks including bulky levitation and sturdy mons. So, how do you beat Drilbur?
edit: original project was Delver's but it transferred to The Unlucky One
Drilbur
60 HP / 85 Atk / 40 Def / 30 SpA / 45 SDef / 68 Spe
Abilities: Sand Rush/ Sand Force / Mold Breaker
edit: original project was Delver's but it transferred to The Unlucky One
Counters for VOTW threats
Guideline 1: It is really hard to find a pokemon that can switch-in to all attacks and instantly threaten it out. Revenge killing is the best thing to do against Drilbur.
Snover
"Snover is the obvious candidate here, since it's Scarf set replaces the sand with hail which takes away Drilbur's blistering Speed. It can then smash it or the switch-in with a powerful Blizzard. It can also beat Hippopotas single-handedly, making sure that the sand doesn't come back. This is probably how 90% of people deal with Drilbur consistently, but unfortunately, the hail has the side effect of sapping the health of the rest of your team, so it isn't always the best option." - Hawkstar
Porygon
"As gimmicky as Choice Scarf Porygon seemed to me at first, it works. It is able to outspeed Drilbur in sand and OHKO with Ice Beam. It does its job, and it does it well." - Raseri
Grass-Types(If Drilbur lacks X-Scissor)
They are able to shrug off Earthquakes with ease and respond with their super effective STAB attacks. The best at this is probably Shroomish, being (I think) the bulkiest of them. Without X-scissor there is really nothing that Drilbur can do. Without X-scissor Shroomish is a hard counter to any Drilbur set. Turtwig, Cottonne, Chikorita, even Snivy all fall into this boat. - Raseri
Aqua Jet Users (Most Notably Tirtouga)
Tirtouga can get up a Shell Smash easy with sturdy then use its priority Aqua Jet to outspeed and hit Drilbur super effectively. - Superpowerdude
Snover
"Snover is the obvious candidate here, since it's Scarf set replaces the sand with hail which takes away Drilbur's blistering Speed. It can then smash it or the switch-in with a powerful Blizzard. It can also beat Hippopotas single-handedly, making sure that the sand doesn't come back. This is probably how 90% of people deal with Drilbur consistently, but unfortunately, the hail has the side effect of sapping the health of the rest of your team, so it isn't always the best option." - Hawkstar
Porygon
"As gimmicky as Choice Scarf Porygon seemed to me at first, it works. It is able to outspeed Drilbur in sand and OHKO with Ice Beam. It does its job, and it does it well." - Raseri
Grass-Types(If Drilbur lacks X-Scissor)
They are able to shrug off Earthquakes with ease and respond with their super effective STAB attacks. The best at this is probably Shroomish, being (I think) the bulkiest of them. Without X-scissor there is really nothing that Drilbur can do. Without X-scissor Shroomish is a hard counter to any Drilbur set. Turtwig, Cottonne, Chikorita, even Snivy all fall into this boat. - Raseri
Aqua Jet Users (Most Notably Tirtouga)
Tirtouga can get up a Shell Smash easy with sturdy then use its priority Aqua Jet to outspeed and hit Drilbur super effectively. - Superpowerdude
Guideline 1:Not much can really beat Misdreavus in all situations. The first step to dealing with it is to find out what moves it carries.
Stunky
"No-ones mentioned Stunky yet which is usually the best counter. But who wants to waste a team slot on Stunky?"- Corkscrew
Vullaby
"I always find Vullaby to be one good check as she takes nothing from Shadow Ball and HP Fighting, doesn't care about a burn and can phaze Nasty Plot boosts even behind a sub. The problem arises when Missy carries Thunderbolt... then its gg for Vullaby." - Good Luck!
Porygon
"Porygon is cool because of recover(TUO Note: And Porygon's rather impressive Bulk), but it also takes a serious beating.(TUO Note: From HP Fighting)" - Vader
Timburr
"Timburr usually KOs with payback, whilst Misdreavus usually does crappy damage. Shadow Ball only does about 35% iirc. Timburr can switch into Will-o-Wisp thanks to guts. However the lack of reliable recovery means it's difficult to check with Timburr throughout a match especially if you need it to check Scraggy or something." - Corkscrew
Murkrow
"Murkrow tends to defeat Misdreavus(TUO Note: with Sucker Punch) that don't carry Will-O-Wisp" - Woodchuck
Lileep
"Lileep in Sand can stall out Missy even burned. Nasty Plot sets are quite dangerous and hard to stop, though." - Good Luck!
Misdreavus @ Choice Scarf
"In my experience, a Scarf Misdreavus acts as a good check to non-scarfed-Missys - it just out speeds and 2HKO's w/ shadow ball. Scarfdreavus is often over looked imo, as its one of the better scarfers out there." -Delver
Scraggy
"And then there's Scraggy; if you manage to boost before Missy comes in then you have a very good chance to beat her 1on1." - Good Luck!
[/CENTER]Stunky
"No-ones mentioned Stunky yet which is usually the best counter. But who wants to waste a team slot on Stunky?"- Corkscrew
Vullaby
"I always find Vullaby to be one good check as she takes nothing from Shadow Ball and HP Fighting, doesn't care about a burn and can phaze Nasty Plot boosts even behind a sub. The problem arises when Missy carries Thunderbolt... then its gg for Vullaby." - Good Luck!
Porygon
"Porygon is cool because of recover(TUO Note: And Porygon's rather impressive Bulk), but it also takes a serious beating.(TUO Note: From HP Fighting)" - Vader
Timburr
"Timburr usually KOs with payback, whilst Misdreavus usually does crappy damage. Shadow Ball only does about 35% iirc. Timburr can switch into Will-o-Wisp thanks to guts. However the lack of reliable recovery means it's difficult to check with Timburr throughout a match especially if you need it to check Scraggy or something." - Corkscrew
Murkrow
"Murkrow tends to defeat Misdreavus(TUO Note: with Sucker Punch) that don't carry Will-O-Wisp" - Woodchuck
Lileep
"Lileep in Sand can stall out Missy even burned. Nasty Plot sets are quite dangerous and hard to stop, though." - Good Luck!
Misdreavus @ Choice Scarf
"In my experience, a Scarf Misdreavus acts as a good check to non-scarfed-Missys - it just out speeds and 2HKO's w/ shadow ball. Scarfdreavus is often over looked imo, as its one of the better scarfers out there." -Delver
Scraggy
"And then there's Scraggy; if you manage to boost before Missy comes in then you have a very good chance to beat her 1on1." - Good Luck!
Guideline 1:It's rather hard to switch into Mienfoo without getting weakened somewhat. Most Pokemon that wall Mienfoo use Eviolite in order to take hits from it. This lets Mienfoo use Knock Off on the switch-in and U-Turn out.
Guideline 2:Burn is the overall best way to deal with Mienfoo as a burned Mienfoo can't really do much.
Grimer/Trubbish
"There are two hard counters to bulky Mienfoo, only one of which is actually usable. They are Grimer and Trubbish. Both have access to Sticky hold, which blocks knock off, they resist Drain Punch, (and for what it's worth, U-turn) and don't take much from Fake Out, Stone Edge, or even payback. Honestly though, who would use Trubbish when Grimer exists? Grimer also does around a solid 40% with Poison Jab with a 30% chance of poison as well which can cripple Mienfoo. It can also take on Choice Scarf Mienfoo which things like Larvesta and Drifloon can't check as reliably. I believe it also takes Life Orb Mienfoo decently as well." - Shouting
Cottonee
"Prankster Cottonee (yes, I'm obsessed with the freak) can encore Fake Out and Paralize Mienfoo." - Good Luck!
Ghost-Types (Frillish/Missy)
"Yeah, Missy's a great counter. Ghost types in general do a swell job; Frillish can take multiple U-Turns / SEdges but predicted Knock Offs can be annoying later. ." - Electrolyte
Larvesta
"Larvesta resisting all of it's commonly used moves (bar Stone Edge - used on about 38% of Mienfoo) and can get a little bit lucky with Flame Body." - Good Luck!
Guideline 2:Burn is the overall best way to deal with Mienfoo as a burned Mienfoo can't really do much.
Grimer/Trubbish
"There are two hard counters to bulky Mienfoo, only one of which is actually usable. They are Grimer and Trubbish. Both have access to Sticky hold, which blocks knock off, they resist Drain Punch, (and for what it's worth, U-turn) and don't take much from Fake Out, Stone Edge, or even payback. Honestly though, who would use Trubbish when Grimer exists? Grimer also does around a solid 40% with Poison Jab with a 30% chance of poison as well which can cripple Mienfoo. It can also take on Choice Scarf Mienfoo which things like Larvesta and Drifloon can't check as reliably. I believe it also takes Life Orb Mienfoo decently as well." - Shouting
Cottonee
"Prankster Cottonee (yes, I'm obsessed with the freak) can encore Fake Out and Paralize Mienfoo." - Good Luck!
Ghost-Types (Frillish/Missy)
"Yeah, Missy's a great counter. Ghost types in general do a swell job; Frillish can take multiple U-Turns / SEdges but predicted Knock Offs can be annoying later. ." - Electrolyte
Larvesta
"Larvesta resisting all of it's commonly used moves (bar Stone Edge - used on about 38% of Mienfoo) and can get a little bit lucky with Flame Body." - Good Luck!
Guideline 1: “When dealing with these top tier threats, the first step should ALWAYS be to identify its set. This applies doubly for Murkrow.” – Delver
Guideline 2: Not a lot of Pokemon can comfortably switch into Life Orb Mixkrow. To defeat it you need to be able to predict what move its going to use or simply revenge it with something faster or with priority that resists Sucker Punch.
Guideline 3: Status is really good against offensive variants. If you can predict it not to go for Prankster Substitute (especially if it Sucker Punches) you can hit it with Paralysis or Burn and it will have a much harder time.
Guideline 4: Most Murkrow kill themselves. With Brave Bird recoil, LO, and a Stealth Rock weakness, predicting well until it kills itself is a viable strategy if it can't roost the damage off (particularly on LO MixKrow)
Archen
“I'm probably the only person that really really loves Eviolite Archen, but it's SO GOOD at stopping LO Krow and the standard SubRoost set it's not even funny. The first set here can shrug off everything bar LO Dark Pulse from Murkrow, easily stalling out Sucker Punch with Roost (and Stealth Rock).” – Elevator Music
Magnemite
“IMO the best thing to do is slap a scarf on your magnemite, hope they don't predict the switch-in and use heat wave, and then go for tbolt on the next turn, when they heat wave.” – Chieliee
Tirtouga
“Offensive Tirtouga is a good Murkrow check; it easily sponges BBird and SPunch. However, HP Grass hits it like a truck, so if hazards / hail is up you can only revenge kill. However, Murkrows without HP Grass can be set up on easily by Tirt and eventually OHKOd by Stone Edge. Aqua Jet can even let you bypass SPunch.” – Electrolyte
Sucker Punch Resist @ Choice Scarf
“honestly the easiest way to beat murkrow is just scarf something with a sucker punch resist, or just make it faster somehow. murkrow isnt taking a hit thats neutral cause it just cant, and anything that can get aroudn sucker punch is fun. hell use scarf scraggy it wins games.” – premr
Guideline 2: Not a lot of Pokemon can comfortably switch into Life Orb Mixkrow. To defeat it you need to be able to predict what move its going to use or simply revenge it with something faster or with priority that resists Sucker Punch.
Guideline 3: Status is really good against offensive variants. If you can predict it not to go for Prankster Substitute (especially if it Sucker Punches) you can hit it with Paralysis or Burn and it will have a much harder time.
Guideline 4: Most Murkrow kill themselves. With Brave Bird recoil, LO, and a Stealth Rock weakness, predicting well until it kills itself is a viable strategy if it can't roost the damage off (particularly on LO MixKrow)
Archen
“I'm probably the only person that really really loves Eviolite Archen, but it's SO GOOD at stopping LO Krow and the standard SubRoost set it's not even funny. The first set here can shrug off everything bar LO Dark Pulse from Murkrow, easily stalling out Sucker Punch with Roost (and Stealth Rock).” – Elevator Music
Magnemite
“IMO the best thing to do is slap a scarf on your magnemite, hope they don't predict the switch-in and use heat wave, and then go for tbolt on the next turn, when they heat wave.” – Chieliee
Tirtouga
“Offensive Tirtouga is a good Murkrow check; it easily sponges BBird and SPunch. However, HP Grass hits it like a truck, so if hazards / hail is up you can only revenge kill. However, Murkrows without HP Grass can be set up on easily by Tirt and eventually OHKOd by Stone Edge. Aqua Jet can even let you bypass SPunch.” – Electrolyte
Sucker Punch Resist @ Choice Scarf
“honestly the easiest way to beat murkrow is just scarf something with a sucker punch resist, or just make it faster somehow. murkrow isnt taking a hit thats neutral cause it just cant, and anything that can get aroudn sucker punch is fun. hell use scarf scraggy it wins games.” – premr
Guideline 1: Snover’s lack of recovery outside Giga Drain and Stealth Rock weakness mean that if Stealth Rock is on the field Snover’s lifespan will be severely shortened.
Bronzor
“Bronzor can take any hit except HP Fire quite easily, and return with a Flash Cannon or status. However, due to the fact that bronzor lacks recovery, it can be easily worn down, so players should try to get hazards up to wear down Snover before Bronzor gets taken down.” – Electrolyte
Pawniard
“Pawniard is a great offensive check; it can take a Blizzard / Giga Drain quite well and OHKO with Iron Head or Sucker Punch. It has to fear HP Fire though.” – Electrolyte
Magnemite
“Magnemite is also a great counter to Snover; it can take almost any hit and HP Fire does relatively little as well. Magnemite can OHKO with Flash Cannon or even its own HP Fire in return.” – Electrolyte
Larvesta
“Larvesta takes very little from anything Snover packs, except the odd person running HP Rock and can U-turn for the OHKO or to get momentum from the switch in.” – Corkscrew
Tentacool
“Tentacool is the only Water-type who can switch into anything Snover has but it's very unreliable as it HAS to run Sludge Wave to be a significant threat.” – Good Luck
Houndour
“Houndour is my favorite check as it plays games with Scarf Snover when SR is up as Pursuit will heavily damage it preventing it from switching more often.” – Good Luck
Bronzor
“Bronzor can take any hit except HP Fire quite easily, and return with a Flash Cannon or status. However, due to the fact that bronzor lacks recovery, it can be easily worn down, so players should try to get hazards up to wear down Snover before Bronzor gets taken down.” – Electrolyte
Pawniard
“Pawniard is a great offensive check; it can take a Blizzard / Giga Drain quite well and OHKO with Iron Head or Sucker Punch. It has to fear HP Fire though.” – Electrolyte
Magnemite
“Magnemite is also a great counter to Snover; it can take almost any hit and HP Fire does relatively little as well. Magnemite can OHKO with Flash Cannon or even its own HP Fire in return.” – Electrolyte
Larvesta
“Larvesta takes very little from anything Snover packs, except the odd person running HP Rock and can U-turn for the OHKO or to get momentum from the switch in.” – Corkscrew
Tentacool
“Tentacool is the only Water-type who can switch into anything Snover has but it's very unreliable as it HAS to run Sludge Wave to be a significant threat.” – Good Luck
Houndour
“Houndour is my favorite check as it plays games with Scarf Snover when SR is up as Pursuit will heavily damage it preventing it from switching more often.” – Good Luck
Guideline 1: Timburr is not too hard to wear down. It does have Drain Punch but he can't be regenerating it all the time.
Tentacool
““Tentacool possesses Liquid Ooze to keep Timbuur from healing with Drain Punch.” – Nebuchadnezzar
Foongus
“FOONGUS is a great Timburr response, even if it has Ice Punch you can just put it to sleep and switch out, and Clear Smog foils its attempts to Bulk Up.” – Woodchuck
Koffing
“Koffing is another bulky pokemon that resists Drain Punch and Mach Punch and can use Clear Smog to get rid of Timburr's Bulk Up boosts.” – Superpowerdude
Croagunk
“It must be noted that Standard Croagunk cannot beat Timburr as Timburr can just Bulk Up and beat it 1v1. However, Bulk Up Crogaunk will always beat Timburr 1v1.” – Corkscrew
Tentacool
““Tentacool possesses Liquid Ooze to keep Timbuur from healing with Drain Punch.” – Nebuchadnezzar
Foongus
“FOONGUS is a great Timburr response, even if it has Ice Punch you can just put it to sleep and switch out, and Clear Smog foils its attempts to Bulk Up.” – Woodchuck
Koffing
“Koffing is another bulky pokemon that resists Drain Punch and Mach Punch and can use Clear Smog to get rid of Timburr's Bulk Up boosts.” – Superpowerdude
Croagunk
“It must be noted that Standard Croagunk cannot beat Timburr as Timburr can just Bulk Up and beat it 1v1. However, Bulk Up Crogaunk will always beat Timburr 1v1.” – Corkscrew
Mienfoo
“Defensive Mienfoo can handle a +1 Drain Punch from Scraggy for sure, I think that goes for HJK” – Delver
Riolu
“My favorite Scraggy counter is Riolu. Scraggys that do not carry Zen Headbutt are defeated easily, as DDance+HJK can be protect scouted and then 2HKO'd with Drain Punch. Even Scraggys that do carry Zen Headbutt can be defeated but it requires 100% HP on Riolu's end- as +1 Zen Headbutt does up to 95%. You can even steal its boosts with Copycat if you have the nerve.” – Electrolyte
Flying-Type @ Choice Scarf
“Scarfers are always risky as if you're facing someone good, they probably won't DD until they've worked out the set of your doduo/taillow/murkrow or whatever other flyer. So Scraggy might just attack straight off which will hurt these frail pokemon quite a bit. Only really great for revenging.” – Corkscrew (but they are good checks!)
Cottonee
“Cottonee is a great switch-in to Scraggy when it Dragon Dances as Prankster Encore will prevent it from doing anything besides setup.” – Good Luck! (Good Luck!, you have convinced me that Cottonee checks everything)
“Defensive Mienfoo can handle a +1 Drain Punch from Scraggy for sure, I think that goes for HJK” – Delver
Riolu
“My favorite Scraggy counter is Riolu. Scraggys that do not carry Zen Headbutt are defeated easily, as DDance+HJK can be protect scouted and then 2HKO'd with Drain Punch. Even Scraggys that do carry Zen Headbutt can be defeated but it requires 100% HP on Riolu's end- as +1 Zen Headbutt does up to 95%. You can even steal its boosts with Copycat if you have the nerve.” – Electrolyte
Flying-Type @ Choice Scarf
“Scarfers are always risky as if you're facing someone good, they probably won't DD until they've worked out the set of your doduo/taillow/murkrow or whatever other flyer. So Scraggy might just attack straight off which will hurt these frail pokemon quite a bit. Only really great for revenging.” – Corkscrew (but they are good checks!)
Cottonee
“Cottonee is a great switch-in to Scraggy when it Dragon Dances as Prankster Encore will prevent it from doing anything besides setup.” – Good Luck! (Good Luck!, you have convinced me that Cottonee checks everything)
Guideline 1: Titrouga is much harder to stop when it has Sturdy intact. Do as much as possible to make sure he does not have Sturdy.
Lileep
"Lileep is also a great answer because it is immune to Water-type attacks and has the best defense out of all of them.(of Grass-Types)" - Electrolyte
Ferroseed
" Ferroseed is the main answer here, as it resists all of Tirtouga's attacks and can hit past Sturdy with Bulket Seed." - Electrolyte
Most choice Scarfers
" Tirtouga is really slow, so some faster Scarfers such as Murkrow, Mienfoo, or Chinchou can outspeed it and defeat it. The catch here is that they must be fast and bulky enough to take a +2 Aqua Jet, or a +2 Aqua Tail / Stone Edge AND an Aqua Jet if Sturdy is still intact. " - Electrolyte
Croagunk
" Croagunk is the main one- immune to Water and resistant to Rock, it can take many hits, and simple heal back with Drain Punch and then Vacuum Wave. The damage it sustains is relatively little too as it can heal it off with Drain Punch." - Electrolyte
Lileep
"Lileep is also a great answer because it is immune to Water-type attacks and has the best defense out of all of them.(of Grass-Types)" - Electrolyte
Ferroseed
" Ferroseed is the main answer here, as it resists all of Tirtouga's attacks and can hit past Sturdy with Bulket Seed." - Electrolyte
Most choice Scarfers
" Tirtouga is really slow, so some faster Scarfers such as Murkrow, Mienfoo, or Chinchou can outspeed it and defeat it. The catch here is that they must be fast and bulky enough to take a +2 Aqua Jet, or a +2 Aqua Tail / Stone Edge AND an Aqua Jet if Sturdy is still intact. " - Electrolyte
Croagunk
" Croagunk is the main one- immune to Water and resistant to Rock, it can take many hits, and simple heal back with Drain Punch and then Vacuum Wave. The damage it sustains is relatively little too as it can heal it off with Drain Punch." - Electrolyte