Venomoth

[Pgirts]

Venomoth

Type:
Bug/Poison

Abilities:
Shield Dust
Tinted Lens
Miracle Skin (Dreamworld)

Base Stats:
70/ 65/ 60/ 90/ 75/ 90

Type Effectiveness:
1/4x: Grass, Fighting
1/2x: Bug, Poison
1x: Water, Electric, Normal, Ground, Ghost, Steel, Ice, Dragon, Dark
2x: Rock, Psychic, Fire, Flying

Learnset by Level Up:
Lv1: Silver Wind, Lv1: Tackle, Lv1: Disable, Lv1: Foresight, Lv1: Supersonic, Lv5: Supersonic, Lv11: Confusion, Lv13: PoisonPowder, Lv17: Leech Life, Lv23: Stun Spore, Lv25: Psybeam, Lv29: Sleep Powder, Lv31: Gust, Lv37: Signal Beam, Lv41: Zen Headbutt, Lv47: Poison Fang, Lv55: Psychic, Lv59: Bug Buzz, Lv63: Butterfly Dance

Learnset by TM/HM:
TM06 - Toxic, TM09 - Venom Shock, TM10 - Hidden Power, TM11 - Sunny Day, TM15 - Hyper Beam, TM17 - Protect, TM21 - Frustration, TM22 - Solar Beam, TM27 - Return, TM29 - Psychic, TM32 - Double Team, TM36 - Sludge Bomb, TM40 - Aerial Ace, TM42 - Facade, TM44 - Rest, TM45 - Attract, TM46 - Thief, TM48 - Troll, TM53 - Energy Ball, TM62 - Acrobat, TM68 - Giga Impact, TM70 - Flash, TM76 - Bug Resistance, TM87 - Swagger, TM89 - U-Turn, TM90 - Substitute

Egg Moves:
Baton Pass, Screech, Giga Drain, Signal Beam, Agility, Morning Sun, Toxic Spikes, Bug Bite, Secret Power, Skill Swap, [M476]Rage Power

Venomoth has always been one of my favorite Pokemon, and now that he has Butterfly Dance, which raises his Sp. Attk, Sp. Def, and Speed one stage, he may have more prominence than ever before. His weakness to Stealth Rock is still inhibiting, but with strong resistances to Grass and Fighting, he may be able to find numerous situations to come in and setup. He may even be able to function as a quick, special sponge due to Butterfly Dance, Roost, and his status moves such as Sleep Powder.

Butterfly Dance Sweeper
Nature: Timid
Ability: Tinted Lens
Item: Leftovers/Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP/252 Sp. Attk/252 Spd
Butterfly Dance
Bug Buzz
Psychic
Sleep Powder/Giga Drain

Pass Them Dance Moves
Nature: Timid
Ability: Tinted Lens
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 4 Sp. Attk/252 HP/252 Spd
Sleep Powder
Butterfly Dance
Baton Pass
Bug Buzz

I'm pretty new to this, which I'm sure is apparent. Discuss.

 

[Ice-eyes]

You've got Tinted Lens! Why wouldn't you run Sleep Powder?

I would suggest a Butterfly Dancer with:
Venomoth @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Tinted Lens
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe (max HP is an alternative)
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Butterfly Dance
Sleep Powder
Bug Buzz
Roost / Hidden Power [Ground]

 

[RomanceDawn]

That Butterfly Dance is nuts, If Venomoth can get one or 2 boosts in then wow!

 

[CWW]

Butterfly Dance + Tinted Lens is going to be so good in UU, especially since it walls grass/fighting like a champ.

 

[rh2012]

You've got Tinted Lens! Why wouldn't you run Sleep Powder?

I would suggest a Butterfly Dancer with:
Venomoth @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Tinted Lens
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe (max HP is an alternative)
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Butterfly Dance
Sleep Powder
Bug Buzz
Roost / Hidden Power [Ground]

correct me if i'm wrong, but tinted lense doesnt raise accuracy, thats compoundeyes. Assuming that's what you were refering to with the tinted lense comment? or were you just saying you can sacrifice coverage to to tinted lense's effects?

 

[Losa]

I wouldn't mind seeing Venomoth sweeping in UU. Definately a great asset to its movepool.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Remember guys, UU doesn't necessarily exist for gen V. We shouldn't be predicting one way or the other in these threads.

Unfortunately for Venomoth, it doesn't run a Tinted Lens set very well for one major reason. A lot of Pokemon, such as Skarmory, Heatran, Lucario, and new Pokemon, 4x resist Bug-type attacks and are simultaneously immune to Venomoth's other STAB. HPGround will help with Heatran and Lucario, but Skarmory pretty much sets up on this set even after a Butterfly Dance or two. Fortunately Sleep Powder exists, which is handy. However, after sleep clause activates, virtually all priority is going to be nailing Venomoth hard.

Despite access to Sleep Powder, his weak Special Attack and Speed compared to Urugamosa all coupled with his lack of Fire-type STAB makes Urugamosa way better. Venomoth is only 2x weak to SR, though, which could count for something.

Also, you need to include the total movepool in the OP. You've forgotten Egg moves and TM/HMs.

 

[Pgirts]

Added Egg Moves and TM/HMs. Thanks for pointing that out. Also, I replaced Energy Ball with Giga Drain due to Giga Drain now having a base power of 75. Venomoth will still be frail, so he needs all the health he can get.

 

[DrunkRacoon]

Remember guys, UU doesn't necessarily exist for gen V. We shouldn't be predicting one way or the other in these threads.

UU will exist. It's a fact(unless we get armagedon before Gen. V competitive play starts on shoddy, lol). Are you doubting that Venomoth will be UU? I think it's reasonable to assume it'll be in UU.

 

[Grassmen]

Posted this in the Masquerain thread (Venomoth was mentioned there, so it was posted there first, so I've just 'copy and pasted' this :P )

Venomoth also gets Baton Pass via breeding. It's defences aren't great, so it probably won't be able to get too many Butterfly Dances in, but even one dance followed by a baton pass could be useful.

Now, I'm a complete novice, just thinking of getting into competitive play this gen, but could something like this work?

Bold Venomoth @Focus Sash/Black Sludge
252HP, 252Def, 4Spe
Shield Dust (not sure exactly what Miracle Skin does, could be useful)

Butterfly Dance
Baton Pass
Roost(?)
Bug Buzz/Silver Wind

Butterfly Dance to raise SpA, SpD and Speed. Use as many times as possible/desired. A Focus Sash helps keep Venomoth in play for at least one turn, and hopefully the speed boost allows it to go first the next turn to pass the stat boosts. Black Sludge might be a better alternative if Venomoth has more chance to last longer. Roost is for reliable recovery (requires 4th gen TM) - perhaps more suited to a Black Sludge set. Bug Buzz will benefit from the SpA boost and is a pretty reliable move. Silver Wind meanwhile is for those who might want to take their chances on more potential stat boosting. Shield Dust is probably more suitable because Venomoth is playing defensively.

Roost could be replaced with Sleep Powder, gaining at least one free turn to Butterfly Dance, but its accuracy could put people off. You could also try taking EVs from Defense and putting them into Speed to help aid the chance of Baton Passing successfully - this would probably work better with the Sash set.

Time for the experts to tear this to shreads :P

 

[Rising_Dusk]

UU will exist. It's a fact(unless we get armagedon before Gen. V competitive play starts on shoddy, lol). Are you doubting that Venomoth will be UU? I think it's reasonable to assume it'll be in UU.

It will not exist in the framework that we understand it now in Gen IV. There's a lot of stuff that will change about tiering over the next couple of months. Please do not fix yourself in the mindset of "Uber/OU/UU".

 

[CWW]

Roost could be replaced with Sleep Powder, gaining at least one free turn to Butterfly Dance, but its accuracy could put people off. You could also try taking EVs from Defense and putting them into Speed to help aid the chance of Baton Passing successfully - this would probably work better with the Sash set.

Yes to both. You want Sleep Powder to get a free boost and max Speed to pass those boosts. Defense doesn't help nearly as much considering it's useless against special attacks.

 

[skullzie]

It will not exist in the framework that we understand it now in Gen IV. There's a lot of stuff that will change about tiering over the next couple of months. Please do not fix yourself in the mindset of "Uber/OU/UU".

No, we don't know what the new generations UU will consist of, but it's safe to assume it won't be up against the likes of heatran and skarmory. If we aren't talking about this pokemon in reference to the lower tiers we might as well not be talking about it.

 

[Grassmen]

Yes to both. You want Sleep Powder to get a free boost and max Speed to pass those boosts. Defense doesn't help nearly as much considering it's useless against special attacks.

Thanks :)

So do you think a Timid 252HP/252Spe is the most efficient spread? Also, do you think its better to run a Sash-set or go for slower recovery with Black Sludge?

Timid Venomoth @Focus Sash/Black Sludge
252HP, 252Speed, 4SpD
Shield Dust (not sure exactly what Miracle Skin does, could be useful)

Butterfly Dance
Baton Pass
Sleep Powder
Bug Buzz/Silver Wind

 

[Sandstreamer]

Oh man, i LOVE Venomoth. Sadly, the best I could ever do with it was Skill Swap Tinted Lense in 2on2. But Butterfly Dance certainly gives it some nice tool to play with. With Tinted Lense, Psychic + Bug Buzz is what you want for your attacking combination. Afaik it hits everything for neutral damage. For the rest, we'll have to wait if it can do soemthing in UU or not....

 

[Thee]

The main thing that interests me is whether or not Venomoth is superior to the new moth. Venomoth gets 1/4 SR damage, Baton Pass, and Tinted Lens, in exchange for having weaker special attack/defense and speed stats.

 

[Green Mage]

I don't think you can even compare the two. Uragomoth is a sweeper, and venomoth is support (that can also sweep, but not as well).

Modest over timid, no doubt. You've got an unresisted stab attack with high power and a way to boost your speed.

Venomoth @ Black Sludge
Modest, Tinted Lens
252spa/252spe/4hp
Bug Buzz
Butterfly Dance
Baton Pass
Sleep Powder

This set is incredible. I mean really, really good. It's going to turn Venomoth into a powerhouse, possibly even propelling it into BL. Not only can it sleep something, but passing +1 speed and spa around is no joke. Can you imagine staring down something with a fire move after dancing, and then passing to heatran? Or anything with Flash Fire? The fact that it is weak to fire is almost beneficial. It can pass well to any steel really, as most steels resists three of its weaknesses.

If the sleep and pass weren't enough, it can easily end up sweeping by itself thanks to tinted lens. Massive boost to this dude this gen, even more than bug buzz and tinted lens were last gen.

 

[GMLW]

Ahh, I always had a soft spot for Venomoth, and now it has just what it needs. Sure, Lucario, Skarmory, Heatran and some others resist both Bug Buzz and Sludge Bomb, but it probably won't be OU, and unless these guys drop to UU (doubtful) Venomoth should be fine running Bug Buzz | Sludge Bomb | Butterfly Dance | Sleep Powder/Roost

 

[Forsety]

I don't think you can even compare the two. Uragomoth is a sweeper, and venomoth is support (that can also sweep, but not as well).

Definitely, if anything I actually think we won't see as many Butterfly Dancing Firemoths.

Look at its typing and stats and moves, most of the time Urgamoth is going to simply be throwing out Fire Dances for free s.atk boosts and big high damage nukes off its crazy 135 base.

It can't afford to attempt to setup, its barely that much more bulkier than Venomoth but lacks the sleep move to give it a turn advantage. Its typing leaves it unable to switch into most things on top of a huge 50% SR weakness.

On the other hand Venomoth is a godly setup, I'm not sure how many people even realize that playing Venomoth before your sweep already auto clears Toxic Spikes for any incoming sweepers so thats another big boost to the guy.

I'm also of opinion you want Timid not Modest, Timid lets you at least outspeed neutral base 100 speed Pokemon to get in the sleep. Anytime Venomoth is sweeping he'll let the dancing do the talking for him powerwise anyway, fact is Venomoth only needs the 1 turn advantage to already become a threat and he can pull it off.

 

[MoogleEnsign]

Well, it's either this or urgamoth. Tinted lenses v 135 spA.
btw urgamoth can have the opportunity to boost. celebi, tyranitar, and scizor I'm looking at you. It's defenses mean it can take resisted physicals ok, and it can take neutral specials all day.

 

[Shadow hunter]

tinded lens bug buzz and psichic get perfect coverage nothing that has quad resistance to bug buzz gets quad resistance for psichic and only pokemons imune to psycgic dark types get atleast neutral from bug buzz
heatran skarmory lucario get normal hit from psichic while other get bug buzzed i checked it gets perfect coverage and psichic is the move wth most BP and special that he learns

also pack psichic bug buzz with buterfly dance and sleep power you got an annoying pokemon xD

 

[SuperGeneration]

Butterfly Dance Sweeper
Nature: Timid
Ability: Tinted Lens
Item: Leftovers/Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP/252 Sp. Attk/252 Spd
Butterfly Dance
Bug Buzz
Psychic
Sludge Bomb/Sleep Powder/Giga Drain

I'm pretty new to this, which I'm sure is apparent. Discuss.

I think Sleep Powder is the best choice for the fourth move. With it, Venomoth can be switched in to face any slower pokemon, use Sleep Powder, force it to switch, and use this free turn to Dance. With Tinted Lens, Psychic and Bug Buzz, Venomoth always hit the foe at neutral damage, so I don't see the necessity of Sludge Bomb.

The type Bug/Poison is not so good, but anyway it is better than Bug/Flying, which most of other butterfly pokemon in the game have. Toxic spikes absorption as well as Toxic immunity are also advantages of this pokemon, either.

 

[SMZ]

Butterfly Dance/Bug Buzz/Sleep Powder/Baton Pass doesn't rely on sweeping; it could hit some stuff, when something comes you can't scratch sleep and pass away.

 

[IceBeam946]

Venomoth is crazy good on PO, I see a lot of them along with the moth. After a Sleep Powder hits you're in for a world of hurt as it dances for infinity and either passes to something or just outright kills you. I honestly think a +Speed nature would be preferred because getting that fast Sleep Powder is ideal.

 

[Green Mage]

I couldn't get it to be too successful actually. It's just too frail. I tested it early on while my team was just random stuff, but i ended up just replacing it with uruga. Why bother trying to set up and pass when you can just set up with uruga, who rapes the majority of the game with only one dance? It's hard to make the justification. Venomoth was successful now and then, as I was able to sweep with a boosted heatran or sazandora a few times, but in the end it just died too easily, and it felt too much like dead weight.

When UU comes around, it's gonna be top-tier if it isn't voted to BL. It just doesn't have the bulk to survive in standard.