UU RMT - A newcomer's Sunny Day Team

[Benlisted]

This being my very first post on smogon, though I have been lurking on the site for some time, I apologize in advance for the many glaring mistakes I am bound to have made in the following team. /disclaimer

Anyway, after reading the thread Fun In The Sun on the UU subforum, I decided to try my hand at my second team for shoddy. Many of the pokemon I use here, especially Victreebel and Alakazam have been inspired almost utterly by that thread and its posters, who I'll try to credit when I discuss them. This team is very fun to play, but I feel could really do with some improvements, so, here it is:

Lead: Houdini (Alakazam @ Focus Sash)

Nature: Hasty
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 216Spe/188SpD/104SpA
Counter
Taunt
Sunny Day
Psychic

Credit goes to Pokemaster 3000 for all but the nature, which in any case I reckon he forgot to change when he removed encore. After deliberating over a jumpluff, ambipom, persian, uxie, or zam lead, I decided on this guy.

He prevents the opponent realizing what kind of team I am running, which is important, and matches well against almost every common lead, unless they predict a counter zam. He has such a fast taunt he is almost certain to prevent SR getting up at the start of the match, which is key to the fire pokes in my team, and can easily knock the opponent down a pokemon with counter, then set up sun and die. Priority screws this over to an extent though. Psychic fills and can be useful later in the match.

Overall I am very, very happy with zam as my lead. He is one of the most reliable, if not the most, member of my team, virtually never failing to get his job done. The only annoyance is that sometimes sun ends too soon due to his not being able to run heat rock, but his payoffs are worth that minor grievance.


Sun Sweeper: Pitcher (Victreebel @ Life Orb)

Nature: Rash
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 192Atk/64Spe/252SpA
Solarbeam
Weather Ball
Leaf Blade
Sucker Punch

Again, Credit to Pokemaster 3000 with minor changes. Every sunny day team needs a chlorophyll sweeper, and personally I think the coolest looking is Victreebel, so I looked around for movesets and found this mixed one, whose leaf blade 2HKOs chansey hoping to wall its solarbeam. Essentially, predicting right on its switch in, it can 2HKO almost every common wall in UU without being hit back due to chlorophyll.

Fire types pretty much wall this, sadly, though maybe that's just me playing badly. I was considering altering weather ball, but then I lose the ability to surprise steels, so I'm in a bit of dilemna. Sucker Punch I put on so it has some utility out of the sun.


Special Sweeper: Smaug (Charizard @ Life Orb)

Nature: Timid
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252SpA/252Spe/4HP
Fire Blast
Solarbeam
Dragon Pulse
Air Slash

This is why Zam stopping rocks is so crucial - they completely screw Charizard over. But if I do stop them (normally) then this thing is awesome. Fire Blast, sun and possibly Blaze boosted has huge power, Air slash deals with the fighting types whose attacks he can come in on pretty easily, Solarbeam with the waters who think they can wall him, and Dragon Pulse with the odd Altaria and to scout out early game switches (noone sends a steel into a potential boosted fire blast).
Not using specs on what is essentially a specs set makes this so much more useful, especially given that sun gives it a more powerful grass and fire attack anyway. It often nets KOs simply because people think I'll sub up and belly drum, so they stay in, so prediction is pretty easy for him, generally.


Sun Setter/abuser: Apollo (Arcanine @ Heat Rock)

Nature: Adamant
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252Atk/64Spe/192HP
Sunny Day
Morning Sun
Extremespeed
Flare Blitz

Arcanine serves very well as a powerful revenge killer with extremespeed and also has the bulk to set up sun. Flash Fire I know is inferior to Intimidate, but I have had huge issues with moltres and this is about my only answer to it, albeit a poor one :\.

I honestly think i could improve my arcanine a lot, but I'm really not sure what to run. I don't want to lose its ability to set sun, but it often doesn't fulfil its potential I think because of this.


Setup Sun Sweeper: Liana (Tangrowth @ Life Orb)

Nature: Adamant
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252Atk/4Def/252Spe
Swords Dance
Power Whip
Earthquake
Rock Slide

Added for more Sun sweeping power, on the physical side too. Resists priority moves, has great coverage and with chlorophyll active outspeeds and OHKOs a large portion of UU. Sadly I lose a sunsetter to put this guy in, and am considering where best else to add it. Victreebel is a candidate for alteration to a Chlorophyll abusing sunsetter, or adjustment to also be able to setup the sun, as Tangrowth loses too much coverage from dropping a single move in this set.


Rain Dance Counter: Rasputin (Hypno @ Heat Rock)

Nature: Calm
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252HP/200SpD/56Def
Sunny Day
Psychic
Thunder Wave
Wish

A special wall able to take both sleep and powerful water attacks from rain dance teams, and setup in their faces. Psychic is for STAB, thunderwave to cripple things which try to switch into it. Wish is obvious, can help my more fragile LO users, and obviously heal Hypno himself.

PAST MEMBERS

Special Wall, Support and Sun setter: Sprite (Clefable @ Heat Rock)

Nature: Calm
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252HP/252SpD/4Spe
Sunny Day
Encore
Thunderbolt
Softboiled

Physical Wall, Support and Sun setter: Detritus (Rhyperior @ Heat Rock)

Nature: Adamant
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252Atk/252HP/4Def
Sunny Day
Stealth Rock
Earthquake
Stone Edge

 

[Ekanselttar]

Nobody's taken the time to reply yet, which is a shame, because SD teams are awesome. That said, I'm no teambuilding expert, but I have run a very successful Sunny Day team in the past. Read Walkin' on Sunshine [UU RMT] back on page 9 in this forum to see it.

Anyways, the most glaring weakness of this team is simple: There's no Tangrowth! Tangrowth is literally (for all you XKCD fans) the Kabutops of Sunny Day. Here's the standard set:

Tangrowth (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Power Whip
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

Tangrowth's sucky base 50 speed hits 398 in the sun, which is faster than anything not holding a Choice Scarf or named Electrode. It can use its high physical bulkiness (equal to Registeel's if neither have any investment) and its resistances to earn itself a Swords Dance, especially because it's a magnet for Venusaur and Registeel switch-ins. After one Dance, this is what Tangrowth can do:

+2 Earthquake vs. 252/0 Registeel: 100%
+2 Earthquake vs. Scarf Venusaur: 95.9% - 113% (note that Tangrowth outspeeds ScarfSaur)
+2 Power Whip vs. Lead Uxie: 78.8% - 92.7%
+2 Power Whip vs. 80/252 +def Hariyama: 100%
+2 Rock Slide vs. StallTres: 100%
+2 Power Whip vs. Baton Pass Leafeon: 61.2% - 72%

'Nuff said, I think. It basically OHKO's most of the metagame and 2HKO's a select few. In addition, it's not vulnerable to priority, taking about 25% from CB Dugtrio's Sucker Punch, ~50% from Mix Blaziken Vacuum Wave, and ~50-60% from CB Absol Sucker Punch (lol).

That said, you'll want to slot Tangrowth in there somewhere. I'd recommend ditching Clefable (or Rhyperior), because two dedicated sunsetters is more than enough with an offensive sunsetter or two. My recommendation is to ditch Clefable, who gains nothing from the sun being out.

While we're on the topic of dedicated sunsetters, I notice that your team gets absolutely dominated by rain. That shouldn't be true. As a replacement for Rhyperior, consider:

Gardevoir, who outspeeds with a Traced Swift Swim and Tbolts or sets up the sun.
Miltank, who can survive an unboosted waterfall from Kabutops and set up from there.
Hypno, who is only barely 2HKO'd by LO Gorebyss' Surf and can set up and paralyze, as well as laugh in Venusaur's face with Insomnia and Psychic.

Any of those should do well in that regard. Additionally, you could try running a sunsetting Tangrowth, though that would hamper its offensive power.

Moving on, I notice that you've got Charizard but not Moltres. You mention surprise factor, which may well overcome its statistical disadvantage to Moltres (although I really wouldn't expect a Bellyzard on a Sunny Day team). One thing to note is that Moltres will always 2HKO ResTalk Milotic with Fire Blast + Solarbeam in the sun, while Charizard falls slightly short unless Blaze is activated.

At the risk of turning your team into mine, Exeggutor can work well as an offensive sunsetter. It also works very well as a special cholorophyll (thank you AP bio, I spelled that right the first time!) sweeper with a Life Orb and Explosion/Sleep Powder over Sunny Day.

Not much else to say, so random thoughts:
My team was 2 dedicated sweepers (1 grass, 1 fire), 2 offensive sunsetters (1 grass, 1 fire), and 2 dedicated sunsetters. It's a good mix.
Sneasel is better than Alakazam at dealing with Froslass and doesn't get hard countered by Spiritomb.
Typhlosion can work well - Scarf outspeeds Swellow, specs 2HKO's Chansey in the sun, and Hp Rock will take out pesky Moltres and Flash Fire abusers.
Houndoom can be used as a Flash Fire abuser, and Sucker Punch will take out unsuspecting Dugtrio.
Entei is another poke that likes the sun.
Claydol can set up the sun and dual screens if you want them.
Look both ways before crossing, and try to put in a good rain counter.

 

[Energeia]

Well if you want a Wall/Sunsetter, I could possibly recommend Registeel perhaps or Donphan for some strange reason. Both carry Sunny Day and are decent Def walls with Donphan able to spin away SR that would harm Charizard and Arcanine. Like Narulyg said Claydol is a exceptional idea aswell possessing natural bulk and the ability to spin away entry hazards and set up it's own. Also maybe throw up Bellossom as an offensive sun setter as it has decent defenses 75/85/100, while dishing out some attacks with it's base 90 SpA. Here's a moveset perhaps for Bellosom:

Bellossom@ Heat Rock
Ability: Chlorophyll
EV's: 4HP/252SpA/252Spe
Nature: Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
- Sunny Day
- Solarbeam
- Sleep Powder
- Hidden Power Fire

Hopefully I helped & Good Luck!

 

[Benlisted]

Thanks guys for rating :D, Narulyg especially for taking the time to write that wall!

Anyway, I did have a look at your Walkin' on Sunshine Team before constructing this one, and your Typhlosion was what inspired me to use Charizard as a special sweeper (just don't ask quite how, my mind works in strange ways).

Much as I love Clefable, I'll take your advice and try out a Tangrowth in its place, which will hopefully allow me to keep some more offensive momentum. The Rock Slide/EQ combo should help me deal with the Moltres and other fire types I often have problems with too (unless scarfed).

As for Rain teams, I haven't had much problem with them in the past, being able to prevent rain getting up and going from there, but admittedly that could simply be due to having not encountered one. I tried to come up with a Porygon2 Trace set to outspeed Kabutops with Swift Swim but sadly it falls literally around 4 Speed short :\, from what I remember.

Miltank I'm disinclined to choose purely because I really dislike how it looks, and I think I'll try a Hypno rather than use your Gardevoir as well as Tangrowth :P, though I'm not sure if running two psychics in Hypno/Gardy and Zam is a good idea. Also Hypno will make my team able to deal with sleep much better, which has caused it issues in the past.

I really do love Charizard, so I'll stick with him for now and see how he works with the rest of my edits, but I'll bear in mind his slight inferiority to Moltres. Sneasel over Zam likewise, especially as Zam has proved a great lead for me, but I'll still consider him after making the Hypno and Tangrowth edits. The only other edit I'm considering is slotting a Claydol in somewhere, but I'll leave that for now.

Any thoughts on a better Arcanine set? And are 3 Sun setters enough, with one being my lead with no Heat Rock? I could drop Air Slash or Dragon Pulse on Zard for Sunny Day but couldn't afford to lose my LO, making it only 5 turns... And there's whether it'll ever find time to set up.


And @ Energeia, I had been considering Donphan or Claydol, but am struggling to find space for them on my team. The Bellossom is something I considered when making my team, but Victreebel took its place. If I find Tangrowth gives me better coverage and Victreebel becomes obsolete, then I may swap it for Bellossom, or try switching Sucker Punch or Weather Ball for Sunny Day.

 

[Hamme Van]

Good RMT, I like the Charizard and the Weather Ball Victreebel. Narulyg mentioned a Gardevoir sunsetter lead and I would like to show you what it would look like:

Gardevoir @ Heat Rock
Timid 252 HP / 158 SpD / 100 Spe
-Sunny Day
-Thunderbolt
-Will-o-Wisp
-Confuse Ray / Shadow Sneak

This is another lead you may want to consider, it can set up Sunny Day for your sweepers to abuse, or to stop the dangerous Rain Dance Sweepers. These EVs outspeed Kabutops by one point, Gorebyss by more and nearly KO both in the sun. While they do minimal damage with their attempts to KO you. Shadow Sneak is for finishing off said threats and just faster pokemon in general. Will-o-Wisp is to make Kabutops and co. completely useless, even in rain. Confuse Ray is just for hax.

And if you like Claydol

Claydol @ Heat Rock
Brave 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
-Sunny Day
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Explosion / Stealth Rock / Sleep Talk

Claydol can also set up SD and go. Earthquake for STAB and Stone Edge for coverage. Explosion for if you want to go out with a bang or Stealth Rock for reliable passive damage. Or you could use Sleep Talk to nullify Scarf Venusaur's use. Or you could make Claydol go special and replace EQ with Earth Power, SE with Psychic and move the Atk EVs into Spa. Also I think this is superior to Donphan because of it's greater support movepoll and ability to be more flexible.

IMO 3 Sunsetters is more than enough, you could drop SD from Arcanine and put in Iron Head for better coverage.

Great RMT and good luck!

 

[arsyniiC]

I think you should incorporate Jumpluff. That thing is a beast in a Sunny Day team.

 

[Benlisted]

Again thanks guys for the rate and positive comments :).

I have considered Gardy at several stages in teambuilding, and though I wouldn't replace my lead for her, Hypno is a possibility to be dropped for her, mostly due to Trace being so great against rain teams. A reasonably physically bulky one (factoring WoW in) is a very cool idea though. Again considering Porygon2 as a Trace user to stop me having a total of 3 main type in my team, though it has to run Choice Scarf to outrun typical rain dance Kabutops, which may hinder the momentum of my team somewhat. Set something like: Thunderbolt, Trick, Recover, Sunny Day, but then I lose the Heat Rock Gardevoir can run.

Currently trying Hypno, and he hasn't fared too well against rain teams, being unable to deal with the bulkier water pokemon with his attacks, or take a kabutops' SDed attack either, so i may well try a Gardevoir in his place if he doesn't work.

An exploding Sun User i something I've considered (exeguttor, shiftry, claydol), but ultimately aside from that the Claydol set is the same as the Rhyperior I used, albeit with much better SpDef. And I'd like to keep my sun users alive as long as physically possible, so it'd only ever be a last resort and not offensive.

Two sunsetters may be enough, but only two of mine have Heat Rocks, with Zam functioning almost purely as an almost suicide lead, so as he is often dead after taking out an opponent with counter and getting sun up, I need it on Arcanine. Thinking of making him more bulky, to capitalize on Morning Sun and possibly reverting to Intimidate if I can make him or Hypno take Sun boosted Moltres Fire Blasts well enough, as these are somewhat of a problem for my team and much of the reason why Arcanine runs Flash Fire currently. Could anyone suggest a set?

And jumpluff is indeed great in Sun, but only really fits as a lead, and I decided I'd rather not immediately show my opponent my strategy.

 

[Midnight.]

If Hypno isn't working, and you want something specially bulky you could try Slowking:

Slowking @ Heat Rock
Ability: Own Tempo
Calm Nature (+Sdef, -Atk)
212 HP / 44 Def / 252 SDef
- Sunny Day
- Slack Off
- Psychic
- Grass Knot / Flamethrower

An exploding Sun User i something I've considered (exeguttor, shiftry, claydol), but ultimately aside from that the Claydol set is the same as the Rhyperior I used, albeit with much better SpDef. And I'd like to keep my sun users alive as long as physically possible, so it'd only ever be a last resort and not offensive.

Regirock is another option. It can set up rocks, the sun, and explode. It can switch in on Moltres and usually force it out (HP Grass won't scare Regirock like it will Rhyperior), setting up the sun or rocks in the process.

 

[Benlisted]

That Slowking might be very useful for taking fire attacks, and special water ones out of sun, though its still a psychic type lol. Ah well, I'm somewhat resigned to having two, and it isn't too much of an issue anyway. Again, I still need to test Hypno some more, but I'll consider it, so thanks :).

Regirock would probably be the best exploding sunsetter I could choose if I do use one, come to think of it. Best defences of all of them, so if I ever need an exploder I think I'll try him first.

 

[Ekanselttar]

Just a thought as a set to try for Arcanine:

Arcanine @ Heat Rock
Nature: Naughty/Rash or Lonely/Mild (I'd go Naughty)
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 100 Atk/64 Spe/152 Satk/192 HP
Sunny Day
Solarbeam
Extremespeed
Flare Blitz

Pretty similar to what you've got, but with Solarbeam over Morning Sun. Unfortunately, taking off Extremespeed isn't really an option with Dugtrio running around, but Solarbeam is a very good move to have. This does mean that half of your team knows Solarbeam, but it's nice not to fear Rhyperior. Milotic is only 3HKO'd by Solarbeam, and will 3HKO back with Surf.

Alternatively, you could run Adamant with Thunder Fang, which 3HKO's Milotic if you're super lucky but 2HKO's Moltres. Flash Fire-boosted Flare Blitz will 2HKO Moltres. All in all, it's iffy to deal with those two, especially because Moltres like to carry Air Slash. And this offensive set won't be sticking around for long.

 

[Benlisted]

Alternatively, you could run Adamant with Thunder Fang, which 3HKO's Milotic if you're super lucky but 2HKO's Moltres. Flash Fire-boosted Flare Blitz will 2HKO Moltres. All in all, it's iffy to deal with those two, especially because Moltres like to carry Air Slash. And this offensive set won't be sticking around for long.

I think I would pick Thunder Fang over solarbeam to avoid having to split my EVs, as it requires sun, 2 other members know it, and I'd much prefer the 2HKO on Moltres, as it walls Arcanine horribly currently. I can also deal with rhyperior okay already :). Flash Fire is proving its worth over intimidate though, but moltres is a little too powerful for it due to air slash as you said, so even thunder fang is of dubious usefulness really :\, and I really don't want to compromise its reasonable bulk and use as a sun setter. Damn moveslot syndrome.

My Arcanine seems to work a lot better with my edited team, however, so I'll see if waiting out its poor fortune works.

I was considering swapping leaf blade on Victreebel for Sludge Bomb due to the same BP but hitting grass for super effective more powerfully than weather ball does. Then I checked and noticed it was special >_<, so I would massively lose the 2HKOs on chansey and clefable it is there for. Big disappointment.

Considering swapping Hypno for Gardy as he plays essentially the same role she would, but without trace, and with a much less powerful psychic, not to mention no energy ball or thunderbolt. The cost would be physical bulk, which I could deal with, and insomnia, which I'm very apprehensive about losing, as it makes Hypno my go-to guy for Venusaur.

Thanks again for the rate.

 

[Farewell]

Um... Shiftry is better than that Victrebell set, Since it gains STAB on Sucker Punch, can use Explosion (over Leaf Blade or Weather Ball), Seed Bomb (weaker than Leaf Blade, but not too much) and a higher Speed stat allows more investment in Attack not by much but a little higher.

Shiftry:
@ Life Orb
Rash
248 Atk / 8 Spe / 252 SpA

Seed Bomb
Sucker Punch
Explosion / Hidden Power Fire
Solar Beam


The only thing Victreebell has over Shiftry is Weather Ball, and Sleep Powder.

So use this set for Mixed Sweeping

Weather Ball / Swords Dance
Hidden Power Ice / Sleep Powder
Leaf Blade
Sucker Punch

 

[Benlisted]

Shiftry:
@ Life Orb
Rash
248 Atk / 8 Spe / 252 SpA

Seed Bomb
Sucker Punch
Explosion / Hidden Power Fire
Solar Beam

The set you posted for shiftry loses me the 2HKO Victreebel assured on Chansey with leaf blade, and makes it almost utterly out of reach on clefable, when before it was very unlikely to not 2HKO. It also makes the 2HKO on uxie and clefable with Solarbeam unlikely too, due to Shiftry's lower base stats (see this thread for the calcs http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65916)

Its purely because of the lower Base Power of Seed Bomb, which is unfortunate. Even with higher attack than Vic it doesn't make the same impact on chansey and clefable, and its SpA is lower too. I don't know, I may try this, being able to explode as a sweeper is great, but its unlikely purely because even with the higher speed and attack base stats its hard for Shiftry to quite equal those damage calcs.

That and Vic absorbs toxic spikes on the way in too :).