Resource USUM NU Viability Rankings (Old)

[Lil Infant Tylenol]

Sandslash and soutland should drop down to c at least, gigalith is gone so they don't do anything anymore

I agree with sandslash should fall to C (if not lower). However Stoutland should not drop that low. With the ability scrappy and a choice band, it is one of the hardest mons to switch in. Even without sand, it is a great wall breaker that should definitely not be taken lightly. The mons that can take return do not appreciate a superpower. That alone is not enough for an A rank, but is still something that is not just average.

 

[Finchinator]

I agree with sandslash should fall to C (if not lower). However Stoutland should not drop that low. With the ability scrappy and a choice band, it is one of the hardest mons to switch in. Even without sand, it is a great wall breaker that should definitely not be taken lightly. The mons that can take return do not appreciate a superpower. That alone is not enough for an A rank, but is still something that is not just average.

Nobody really used Stoutland before Sand became big and with a plethora of stronger, faster, and/or bulkier hard-hitters roaming free, the pedestrian Stoutland doesn’t really have a strong niche in a Sandless metagame. C (or lower) is entirely appropriate for it, especially considering it needs CB to even hit somewhat hard and then things like Slowbro can easily pivot in and scout time after time — Normal resistant partners and Pokemon in general are far from limited atm, even with Scrappy for Rotom, Mismagius, etc

 

[Yoshi]

-> Unranked
I'm gonna have to agree with Finchinator here, no one really used Sandslash or Stoutland before sand dropped, and with sand gone now, why would anything change? Sandslash is slow, Stoutland is a bit too weak without Choice Band, and like Finchinator also said Normal resists are most certainly not rare, so I don't see why either Pokemon should be ranked now if they weren't before. Besides sand coming and leaving, nothing has changed for these two Pokemon at all. Not much else to say here other than we might have to shove them in D-rank if they manage to rise this month (which I'm certain they will since sand was everywhere).

-> C+
This might be a bit controversial, since this Pokemon is good in some situations outside of sand, but the reason this thing was on such a rise was because of Sand, so I think it should move down a rank. Regenerator is a good ability and all, and no doubt does Tangela hold a strong niche in this meta, but I definitely don't think it holds the strength of things like Gallade, Mismagius, and Probopass in the meta, which happen to find more places to fit on teams than Tangela does. Unless someone can come up with a really good way to use Tangela, I don't think it should remain in B-. Like I said, this does seem to be a controversial topic, so I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on it.

-> Unranked
I was scrolling through the VR today, seeing what I liked and didn't like, and I was completely flabbergasted to see this Pokemon sitting in C-. It's seen no real usage since before I was even playing NU, and it's role as a Spikes setter is outclassed by the likes of Ferroseed and Omastar, the latter even acting as a better shell smasher. Shuckle performs better on HO teams with access to Stealth Rock + Sticky Web, and overall Diancie and Xatu are the main "setters" on HO these days, so I don't see why this should be ranked right now, unless someone could provide some good reasoning as to why it should remain ranked.

 

[Rabia]

-> Unranked
I'm gonna have to agree with Finchinator here, no one really used Sandslash or Stoutland before sand dropped, and with sand gone now, why would anything change? Sandslash is slow, Stoutland is a bit too weak without Choice Band, and like Finchinator also said Normal resists are most certainly not rare, so I don't see why either Pokemon should be ranked now if they weren't before. Besides sand coming and leaving, nothing has changed for these two Pokemon at all. Not much else to say here other than we might have to shove them in D-rank if they manage to rise this month (which I'm certain they will since sand was everywhere).

-> C+
This might be a bit controversial, since this Pokemon is good in some situations outside of sand, but the reason this thing was on such a rise was because of Sand, so I think it should move down a rank. Regenerator is a good ability and all, and no doubt does Tangela hold a strong niche in this meta, but I definitely don't think it holds the strength of things like Gallade, Mismagius, and Probopass in the meta, which happen to find more places to fit on teams than Tangela does. Unless someone can come up with a really good way to use Tangela, I don't think it should remain in B-. Like I said, this does seem to be a controversial topic, so I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on it.

-> Unranked
I was scrolling through the VR today, seeing what I liked and didn't like, and I was completely flabbergasted to see this Pokemon sitting in C-. It's seen no real usage since before I was even playing NU, and it's role as a Spikes setter is outclassed by the likes of Ferroseed and Omastar, the latter even acting as a better shell smasher. Shuckle performs better on HO teams with access to Stealth Rock + Sticky Web, and overall Diancie and Xatu are the main "setters" on HO these days, so I don't see why this should be ranked right now, unless someone could provide some good reasoning as to why it should remain ranked.

Crustle:

Crustle differentiates itself from other HO leads through its offensive presence and access to Sturdy, allowing it to put pressure on both removers and the extremely uncommon Taunt users. Crustle isn’t setup bait either because of Sturdy + Red Card, allowing it to ignore Pokemon like Toxicroak which may try to simply setup on it. Keep Crustle ranked.

Tangela:

This Pokemon was ranked only because of its usefulness in checking Sand. As such, its new ranking should reflect Sand’s current viability. Move Tangela to C- or unrank it. (I say potentially keep it in rankings since it can still pivot against a few Pokemon, mainly Medicham. It also compresses lots of utility into one Pokemon.)

Apologies for low quaility post, I’m on my phone so it’s difficult to put in the effort I normally try to

 

[Count Riario]

I fully agree with ranking down both stoutland and sandslash - they only worked on sand and have basically no niche outside of it. However, regarding tangela I feel like we shouldn't act as quickly - it found its niche because of sand, but might still see play depending on where the meta develops towards. The same goes for torterra, which can still be at the very least a decent wall even outside of a sand meta.

TLDR; Unrank sand abusers, wait with unranking the mons that rose due to sand meta, for they might find a niche.

 

[Captain Maybe]

Yeah I personally see no real reason to keep Stoutland around right now. Even with Scrappy, it's almost on the level of Kangaskhan, who just isn't used in NU. A bit more attack and less speed with Pursuit (Sneasel does it better, especially now without sand boosting Stoutland's speed) isn't enough to warrant it ranked right now. It also needs band to function so... yeh.

Slash... idk. Leaning towards unrank, but I feel like maybe C/C-? I don't think its THAT worthless as maybe a spinner or somethin'. Maybe I'm just thinking too hard about it.

Regardless, both sand abusers should be smashed with the unviability hammer. And I think Delphox may as well begin its rise back to power and go to B now. Diancie is still around but that's much less of a hurdle than an entire sand team imo.

 

[neomon]

--> UR
there's essentially no real reason to use those 2 out of sand, for normal breakers we have like ambipom cincinno helio who are faster and stuff like zangoose for power and sandslashes niche without sand died aswell if you ask me

--> UR
I haven't seen anybody use webs since we got 7 million defoggers in usm. the playstyle itself was held down by shit like sneasel (then emboar ban) whims, slowbro even, list goes on, ho is insanely mu based, and w a lot more xatu again and some really good defoggers idt shuckle deserves to be ranked

--> B-
this is a rather tough one, but i think pringleman is actually quite cool, paired w something that stops helios momentum for good: so torterra, while answering croak better than bro, and resisting uturn, I wouldnt mind some discussion on this

--> A
I'd nom for A+ but I'll give sceptile some time to take over the meta again like it did about 9 months ago, exciting
hes broken.

--> S
i dont know if u can make a mon that can pick out of a grand total of 5 or 6 moves s rank, but passimian is honestly splashable and reliable enough to be S rank ( these are like my last 10 teams in my builder, just to put it into perspective)

 

[Espeonage.]

a- ——> b+
so idt pilo is in a too good spot rn, and imo doesn’t deserve a-. basically when im building teams, i find that i very rarely use this mon. this is bc it struggles to defensively check a lot of threats in the meta bar vanilluxe, loses hard to slowbro, and its niche of beating xatu, while still nice, isnt as relevant as it used to be, esp when stuff like diancie and rhydkn can also beat it. while it still fulfills a niche of being a rocker that provides a solid offensive pressure, an ice cream check, priority and beating removers bar blastoise, i don’t consider it to be on the same level as a- mons, especially since that implies its on the same level as rhydon and palo, which i think are clearly superior and more splashable rockers.

b ——> b+
i know people have nommed this up a lot of times and it hasnt rose, but to me steelvally in b is absurd. this pokemon can simply check so many threats, such as vanilluxe, comfey, whimiscott and diancie. i honestly think ppl exaggerate how much this mon is worn down throughout a game, i find that this pokemon can almost always switchin to what it needs to switchin to, and keep hazards off relatively decently, esp vs teams w diancie. vapovally is also an excellent defensive core in this meta, and the two have fantastic synergy.

b—-> b+
ok this nom is fairly simple and shouldnt be controversial, gigalith was a fantastic switchin to this and made its job of breaking balance much harder, but w that gone, a lot of fat teams struggle w this mon a lot, esp w usage of checks like audino and null being low, and as always can exploit mons like lix and pass for free switchins.

a—-> a+
this nom may be a bit more controversial, but to me this mon is definitely worthy of a+. as always, this mon is an excellent offensive pivot that can freely come in on things like vap, and easily beat ground types bar tort and the relatively uncommon gastro. giga being banned helps this mon as well, because it could somewhat function as a check to lisk, not reliable but functional in a pinch, and defensive grass types, mainly tort, will decrease in usage, which obviously benefits this.

a+—->s disagree
i 100% understand the argument for this mon rising, it is so effective and consistent at its role as a scarfer, can act as a roar check which is appreciated by so many teams, and is just insanely splashable. with that said, i feel this lacks the versatility and effectiveness that i feel an s mon should have. to elaborate on that, scarf is by far this mons most common set, and z move sets (grassium+bu or fightnium+taunt) and to a lesser extent band sets are decent, however, their usage is v low and they rarely fit on teams, and are definitely not s rank worthy. as for scarf, it basically always does what it needs to do, rkill so many threatening mons, act as a decent switchin to stuff like roar and sneasel, and pivot out and give switchins w u turn to threatening stuff like ice cream on stuff like bro and palo. w that said, i find that it rarely excels in its role, its rare for this mon to get a matchup where it can destroy teams vs well built teams. overall, i see this as a top a+mon, but i dont think its quite an s mon.

 

[Rabia]

more noms even though we're gonna get new pokemon eventually

A -> A+
Medicham is absolutely disgusting lol. Palossand is the only safe switch-in the tier has (guess Rotom too if you switch in on a move other than its Psychic STAB), and it must be weary of Zen Headbutt flinches. Medicham appreciates AV Slowbro being the premier set atm since that lets it break Slowbro much more easily.

A- -> A
Electric + Ghost STAB is insanely difficult to deal with, and atm Heliolisk and Gastrodon are the only Pokemon which actually want to deal with Rotom (guess Mega Audino too, but that's only really seen on Stall). Yeah Incineroar is the top usage Pokemon, but you just Volt Switch out of it so it's not a real answer imo.

B- -> higher
Scarfphox is officially less piss with Sand gone. Incineroar existing is still a huge dagger to Delphox' viability, but imo that shouldn't keep it in B-. Also appreciates Passimian being the most common Scarfer since it can pivot on CC and outspeeds.

also gonna just voice my disapproval for pass -> S; it isn't nearly as centralizing as slowbro or incin and could use some more exploration of its other sets

 

[shiloh]

Sandslash -> D
Stoutland -> D

Toxicroak -> UR
Gastrodon -> UR

slash / stout got moved to d because there werent enough reasons to even keep them ranked, will be moved to ur if they do drop at any point. also added a new pokemon rank, for the first few days please include replays with nominations for new mons just so there is a bit more information to go with the new drops.

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Also you should probably remove Qwilfish since it dropped to PU this shift.

 

[Count Riario]

I think it's time to adress the crab in the room.

Kingler

Kingler is an extremely underexplored mon within the NU tier, in my experience. I've recently started to build a team around it and use it to the best of my ability, to see if this mon actually is viable in the tier, and boy has it not disappointed me.
Kingler got access to a strong move in liquidation in this generation, something that can be very usefull with its sheer force ability, where crabhammer did not get this boost. In PU they have already figured out this huge threat, which is why it's A+ in the rankings there. The biggest reason kingler isn't used in NU is because the abundance of defensive water types that wall it. Right? Right? Wrong. Let me explain why.

The best defensive water type is also one of the single best pokémon in the tier (at least before the drops); slowbro. Now as you can guess, slowbro does in fact not take much damage from a sheer force life orb liquidation:
​

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Kingler Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 87-103 (22 - 26.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock.

That being said, kingler does have at least one, probably a few more ways to beat it. The way I did it was with X-Scissor. Now obviously, one x-scissor isn't gonna come close to killing a slowbro:​

(252+ Atk Life Orb Kingler X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 169-200 (42.8 - 50.7%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock)

However, as you can see from this calc, after a Swords Dance it actually has a chance to kill​

(+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Kingler X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 338-398 (85.7 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO)​

And with rocks up, it actually turns into this:

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Kingler X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 338-398 (85.7 - 101%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock​

Keep in mind this is a max defense slowbro. If it actually is the set that is rising in popularity, the AV set, it is a guaranteed 2hko with X-Scissor, or an OHKO at +2. One of the reasons I used X-scissor instead of knock off, is because it keeps its power versus z slowbro, as well as ignores potential colbur berries.

Now before I continue with its set, let's just look at some calcs of just liquidation:
​

Bulky Calcs

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Kingler Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 416-491 (102.9 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Kingler Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 283-335 (79.9 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Kingler Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Diancie: 367-432 (120.7 - 142.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Kingler Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Garbodor: 222-263 (60.9 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Kingler Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hariyama: 387-458 (90.2 - 106.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Kingler Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 377-447 (95.6 - 113.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Kingler Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Palossand: 351-413 (94.1 - 110.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Kingler Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Vikavolt: 285-335 (79.6 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Kingler Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Torterra: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 52.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

As you can see, those calcs were by no means against frail mons, because frailer mons will actually die regardless of whether its super effective or not, shown by another row of calcs:

​

Frailer Calcs

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Kingler Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Vanilluxe: 298-351 (105.3 - 124%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Kingler Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Braviary: 329-387 (96.4 - 113.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Kingler Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham: 328-386 (125.6 - 147.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Kingler Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mismagius: 391-461 (149.8 - 176.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Kingler Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Passimian: 285-335 (83.5 - 98.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Kingler Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sigilyph: 309-367 (108.4 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Kingler Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Vivillon: 450-530 (149.5 - 176%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Now enough about calcs. You might be wondering about the last move. Before the rises and drops, stomping tantrum was actually a viable move, allowing you to hit the toxicroak, which you currently cant touch, as well as other poison types. I personally, however, decided to use the move that is boosted by sheer force in order to break through some of its would be checks: Rock Slide. A Sheer Force Life Orb boosted rock slide is no joke, allowing you to break through another huge part of the tier (as well as not touch rocky helmet mons).

This makes its final set:
Kingler @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- X-Scissor
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide

Now kingler is by no means a mon with no drawbacks: Although its decent speed allows you to outrun incineroar while being adamant, it is outsped and killed by quite a few mons. Besides this fact, its coverage doesn't hit all mons (jellicent walls without knock off, vaporeon takes it on, etc). The best way to take on these bulky water absorb mons, is with a swords dance into rock slide, which does about 60-70. And last but not least, its physical defense is quite high, but its special defense is so low it dies to a LOT of special hits, even taking about 30-40% from defensive scalds.

TLDR: Kingler is a great wall breaker in the tier, putting a lot of pressure on stealth rock setters as well as some of the tiers best mons (diancie, incineroar, etc.) by OHKO'ing them, and if the opponent does not have a good switch in to liquidation, it will often just get a kill by clicking it.

I would personally like to nominate
Kingler to B-

If it does well enough, it might even go higher.

P.S. With hoopa dropping to the tier, it might be an idea to start running jolly kingler to outspeed and OHKO it!
​

​

 

[Salemjuggernaut]

My opinion on the new drops.

Aerodactyl > B+
Aerodactyl already replaces both Archeops and Lycanroc as a suicide lead (but not entirely.). It’s speed tier means it is nearly guaranteed to set up rocks on the field or taunt. It do see Pursuit Aero and offensive Aero become the norm for Aerodactyl since it is the fastest unboosted viable mon in NU. Though Slowbro and Palossand’s presence could be an issue for it.

Decidueye > B+
If you want a replacement for Toxicroak, use Decidueye. Decidueye may not be able to break through Incineroar and Guzzlord without a bit more chip, or outspeed Vanilluxe, but it has a better matchup against Slowbro and Diancie. I have also tried out Band which is a good pivot that 2HKOs SD Incineroar and Golbat after rocks

1 252 Atk Choice Band Decidueye Low Sweep vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 136-160 (41 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

But Decidueye has a lot of issues. It is outsped by a large number of the NU meta, it’s typing is horrible, it struggles against speed invested Golbat, Incineroar, Guzzlord, and Braviary if it doesn’t run anything specific against them. But if your looking for a good stallbreaker, Decidueye is for you.

Dhelmise > B+
I’d say it is on par with Decidueye in terms of viability. Choice Band gives it so much immediate power. This beast nearly 2HKOs everything without having to setup. Dhelmise sports better bulk, and more power overall than Decidueye but even less speed making it vulnerable to Incineroar and Golbat. But it has its own niche as a bulky spinner that beats almost every rocker in the tier except Piloswine (Not when it has to eat a Power Whip.) Comparing a wallbreaker/spinner to a stallbreaker/pivot is like comparing a tennis ball to a baseball. They may act similar, but they are specialized for a specific task. Overall, Dhelmise is worth the team slot.

Hoopa > A+
This thing is insane. It has virtually no switch ins after a Nasty Plot boost. It’s what you get when you take Mismagius, give it the psychic typing and amp up the special stats to their limit trading speed for raw power and great special bulk. It’s only issue is how easily it can be revenge killed with something faster and with a Ghost or Dark type move. Hoopa is possibly ban worthy imo.

Quagsire > B
It beats Incineroar and Klingklang in one slot rather than losing to Incineroar and Z-Wild Charge Klingkang like Slowbro. It is a perfect fit for stall and a reasonable one. But due to its passivability, it’s still not as splashable as Slowbro but can be chosen over Slowbro on Balance and Stall teams.

So now for NU’s veterans.

Mega-Audino A > A-
The poor thing hates all the new drops (except Aerodactyl.) and its passivability is starting to show. Anything with a substitute that resists Fairy eats it up quickly. It may be thankful to lose Toxicroak, but now it has to worry about Decidueye and Hoopa setting up on it and Dhelmise straight up beating it. It has to face competition with Diancie as a defensive fairy type and ends up losing in every playstyle except stall which is worse now with Bulk Up + Power Trip Incineroar and the new drops running rampant.

Braviary B+ > A-
Braviary’s spot in the vr doesn’t represent how good it is in the meta. Band, Scarf, and even Bulk Up are still very good in the current meta but Band is the best set as of rn, outspeeding Vaniluxe, Hoopa, and coming to a speed tie with Passimian. Defiant is a great ability to have when coming face to face with Incineroar. Diancie could pose a problem, but it usually runs special defense making swapping into Braviary consistently difficult. Don’t underestimate this star spangled badass.

Mismagius B- > C+
I don’t think I have seen Mismagius lately. Incineroar omnipresence is potentially the biggest reason for it and the fact that we have Hoopa which has even more damage output and OHKOs Incineroar with Focus Blast after a Nasty Plot. I believe being able to outspeed more than Hoopa can is still a worthwhile niche but not enough to bring it closer to what it was before.

 

[King Roma]

Hoopa: S
Waiting for ban like everyone else
Decidueye: A-/B+
Quite interesting, versatile and unique pokemon with clear downside
Dhelmise: B/B+
Similar to decidueye
Aerodactyl: A-
Quite a great pivot
Quagsire: B+
Pretty hard to deal with unless you tech hp grass on a bait

Changes:
Vaporeon B -> B+
Without toxicroak he doesn't get walled as hard

Silvally steel B -> B+
Why so low?

Vileplume B+ -> A- pretty great honestly, counters many threats in the tier, especially now that slowbro isn't required to run psyshock

Golbat C+ -> B
Why so low?

Rotom A- -> A
Why so low? Also checks hoopa

Piloswine A- -> A (possibly)
Ice types got a major buff with the new grass types, and he's a great bait since he can tank supers very well

 

[LRJ87]

Dhelmise: B+/A-
great spinner and powerful attacker

Aerodactyl: A-
Really good lead and great speed


Silvally-Steel B -> B+: Agree
Really good pivot and great sneasel/Vanilluxe check

Braviary B+ -> A-: Agree
Really strong mon in the current metagame, it appriciates the new grass types as well.

 

[neomon]

forgive me I'm writing this from phone on the bus

aero->a- seems adequate, choosing between cb and lo is the only concern with this, personally ive enjoyed cb more on bulky balance stuff to trap annoying breakers (see ice cream/decid/formerly hoopa/xatu potentially aswell), check incineroar and what have you, speed tier is absolutely fantastic, though having a hard time breakin bro vapo palo and fearing sneasel ice share and auch is an obvious flaw, b+ would probably be fine aswell for the time being

Decidueye/dhelmise- i think both have a really similar role, both give stall big trouble but struggle to put pressure on against more offensive teams, decidueye is imo better at executing that, and in general can do more stuff then dhelmise (namely uturn, even go mixed if you really want to) decid a-/dhelmise B imo
(I think dhelmises ability to spin is quite irrelevant, cause from personal experience i think it's really really bad at the hazard removal thing)

Oh and i guess that i should mention wallbreaking and not stallbreaking dhelmise sets in this too, which i also dont regate highly mainly because of dhelmises super awkward speed tier and mediocre bulk

big big fan of quag so far but there is mainly one thing that makes it kinda awkward to use, basically: using quag means you cant use bro, or drift off in some really awkward structure, for ppl saying quag only fits on stall i have made several quag balance builds which all work very nicely, ddue to in one countering incin (given u bait the z) and elecz klink, inviting in slowbro to toxic it, beating all rockers comfortably (most importantly answering rhydon, which would usually be able to pressure slowbro if maneuvered rightly) so theres ups and downs naturally, but generally speaking the opportunity cost of not running slowbro is a bummer and having to fit another good fighting resist (think palo (which clashes weaknesses) xatu/rotom (which can end badly if your oppo clicks the right stuff)) b-/c+ imo

Thx for reading have a nice day

 

[Rabia]

-> A+
I feel Decidueye has been criminally underrated so far, likely because of both Hoopa's mere existence, and Incineroar being both a reliable check and common Pokemon; additionally, the rise of fast Bulk Up Braviary as well as Golbat can cause issues for Decidueye. Regardless, Decidueye is easily a top tier Pokemon in the current meta.

Decidueye shreds through all the common defensive cores extremely easily, doing a better job than even Incineroar of beating common staples on balance like Steelix + Slowbro + Xatu, or Diancie + Vaporeon + Silvally-Steel. Additionally, Decidueye's passable bulk allows it to come in on Pokemon like Slowbro and Vaporeon, fearing only a burn from Scald or a poison from Toxic (and I suppose Fire coverage from Slowbro), and proceed to freely SD up. And while one of the best checks to Decidueye from a defensive standpoint - Incineroar - is super common, Decidueye can muscle through that pretty easily. Fightinium Z Low Sweep (which I meme'd up btw) beats defensive Incineroar after just Stealth Rock damage:

+1 252 Atk Decidueye All-Out Pummeling (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 124 Def Incineroar: 328-386 (83.4 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

In all honesty, this is probably the best lure set Decidueye can run since it also beats Pokemon like Guzzlord and Braviary, which are otherwise fine switch-ins; I still prefer Decidium Z for its general nuking capabilities, but Z-Low Sweep is a real set. Decidueye also differentiates itself from Incineroar by its access to reliable recovery in Roost AND access to priority in Sucker Punch or Shadow Sneak. Lastly, Substitute is also great filler in the last slot since it prevents Decidueye from getting Pursuit trapped by the likes of Sneasel or Houndoom.

It does look like Decidueye suffers from 4MSS, but I think this speaks more to Decidueye's versatility. And Swords Dance isn't the only set Decidueye can run; it just happens to be, in my opinion, its most viable set: Mixed LO Defog, Nasty Plot, Defensive Defog, Choice Band, Choice Scarf, all of these are usable sets which makes dealing with Decidueye at times an arduous task. I would push for S-rank, but I want to see how the meta adapts further first.

-> B- / B
Quagsire gives stall another bulky win condition it can pick, while also providing it with another Unaware Water-type. I don't feel like Quagsire is particularly much better than Pyukumuku; hell, I'd argue it's a bit worse at times since Pyukumuku seems to not fall over as quickly as Quagsire does. Additionally, the current dominance of offensive Grass-types such as Decidueye and Sceptile really hurt Quagsire's viability. Furthermore, the mere existence of Dhelmise and what it does to stall really sucks for Quagsire. Given these negatives though, I still believe Quagsire to be on the level of other B-ranked Pokemon given its slight versatility, being able to run entirely defensive sets, Curse sets, or even Icium Z Ice Punch to bop Decidueye and other Grass Pokemon.

-> B+ / A-
Very fun Pokemon. Choice Band is a solid meme, while kay has been running that Toxic + Protect set. While it gives Decidueye competition for a team slot in some sense, Dhelmise is more suited to bulkier builds which can cover its weaknesses to common attacking types in Fire and Dark.

-> B+ / A-
I don't have too much experience with Aerodactyl, but Substitute + Toxic was really fun and lets Aerodactyl stall out bulky Water-types of their Scald PP, which is nice. Additionally, offensive sets do have some merit since Aerodactyl's coverage options are pretty vast. It also bops Stall builds which is always welcome.

now for pre-existing mons

A+ -> S
Sneasel is super duper amazing. Even with Hoopa gone, Pursuit trapping Pokemon like Decidueye and Slowbro is really nice. I've been using Medicham + Sneasel to open up HJK spam, and it's worked pretty well. Diancie being super splashable and amazing in general is sort of balls, but Iron Tail Sneasel is definitely viable, as well as Low Kick for Incineroar. Furthermore, Dread Plate Sneasel is a nice adaptation to bop stuff like Xatu using Protect to scout what you want to lock into. Overall, Sneasel is top-tier again easily.

B+ -> A-
I was all for dropping Braviary awhile back, but new meta = new opinions. Bulk Up Flyinium Z Braviary is pretty annoying for common defensive cores, while also providing a reliable offensive switch-in to Decidueye. Furthermore, Fightinium Z is definitely a viable option should you want to pop Diancie harder.

B -> B+
I'm biased as hell on this one since I've been splashing Vaporeon on a lot of my teams, but this Pokemon is so good right now. The prominence of offensive Grass-types sucks, but providing Wish to Pokemon like Silvally-Steel and Incineroar is very nice. Additionally, as I mentioned earlier, this guy fits into the balance core of Diancie + Vaporeon + Silvally-Steel very nicely, appreciating Heal Bell support from Diancie while also helping to blanket check some of the things Diancie and Silvally-Steel check, alleviating some pressure from them.

C -> C-
I nommed it up for its role on Sand. Sand is gone. Lycanroc can go back to C-. I still believe it to be a viable suicide lead even with Aerodactyl in the tier since Lycanroc has access to Endeavor + Accelerock, giving it a defined niche over Aerodactyl.

 

[Yoshi]

-> A-
I think a lot of people underestimate the damage Dhelmise can do. While it seems to be outclassed by Decidueye on the forefront, as Decidueye has it's own exclusive z-move, has a bunch of sets, and even performs the role as a Swords Dance user better, Dhelmise has some things that it does better than Decidueye. For one, Dhelmise is a much better Choice Band user. It's Grass STAB is extremely powerful in Power Whip, which is pretty much doing damage to everything bar Poison-, Steel-, and Flying-types. For the Poison and Steel-types however, Dhelmise carries the move Earthquake, which does heavy damage to pretty much all the Poison and Steel-types. For those pesky Flying-types including Aerodactyl and Braviary, Dhelmise has the STAB Anchor Shot (which traps mind you). Now, this set as a whole has extremely few switch-ins. I'm sure there's more than I'm claiming, but off the top of my head the only one I can think of is Vileplume, which takes little damage from all of Dhelmise's attacks. However, Dhelmise also happens to have Knock Off, which can be run for the last move (there are other options such as Shadow Claw and Switcheroo as well). With this in mind, nothing really is escaping the wrath of Dhelmise, given that Dhelmise is in versus a slower / bulkier foe.

The main issue with Dhelmise is that it's rather slow. While it does pack some decent bulk, having 70/100/90, I do feel that Dhelmise can't really afford to take a hit, especially if it's running the Choice Band set (I'll mention some other sets later). Therefore, it can be hard to get Dhelmise in without forced switches and revenge killing. Another issue is that it's not a very good revenge killer, which limits even more of your options to get it in. Simply, it's just hard to get Dhelmise on the field to do damage in the first place, meaning it does require a bit of support to help it get in, such as pivoting moves from Rotom or Heliolisk, or by other means listed above. This is why Dhelmise isn't so high on the list as it might want to be.

Dhelmise has other sets as well, I suppose it could function as a Rapid Spinner but that isn't as good as it seems because you're kind of forced to be walled by something given that you kind of have to run Rapid Spin + Synthesis. So, realistically, you can only run Earthquake + Anchor Shot or Power Whip + Earthquake, while losing out on Knock Off, in my opinion, it's just not worth it. Some people could argue that you can drop Earthquake but with Incineroar everywhere and especially since it almost eats a banded Earthquake as it is, you're kind of required to run it. It also means that without it, you invite Garbodor in for free which means it will probably get up hazards given that you don't have a Xatu in the back, so it's really important that you have Earthquake.

Honestly I'm not too sure what else this has been running, the sets that I've mentioned are the only ones that I know about. One last thing I could talk about is that Anchor Shot kind of removes prediction on your side, giving you free switches and such, which can be a useful component. Also, this Pokemon hates getting revenge killed by the likes of Sneasel and Incineroar, which is something you should definitely keep in mind. Dhelmise can win 50/50s versus Sneasel, but it is kind of risky if you're a bit rusty on risk vs reward and such. Overall though, I think Dhelmise is an incredible Pokemon, and is only held back by it's Speed.


Here comes a nomination where I'm as informed lmao.

-> A/A+
So after talking a bit with some users about Decidueye, I've realized that I've been underrating Decidueye. I have not seen it in action that much, so I'm not sure how much my opinion matters here, but I think the versatility is incredible for Decidueye, as it already has like four good sets as it is. The most obvious one is Swords Dance. Now, you could argue that Incineroar just switches in for free, but another thing that you have to consider is that some users have been running Z-Low Sweep in order to do heavy damage to Incineroar. Otherwise, Ghost STAB is great, and hits pretty much everything bar the Dark-types and Normal-types, which are hit pretty hard by Leaf Blade. Decidueye, unlike Dhelmise, isn't too afraid of getting revenge killed. While Decidueye is technically not as bulky as Dhelmise, they're actually pretty close, with Decidueye having 78/75/100 bulk. But what really sets Decidueye apart from Dhelmise in this department is Swords Dance Decidueye being able to run Shadow Sneak / Sucker Punch. This allows Decidueye to at least get some chip damage versus Pokemon like Sneasel that might want to trap it and kill it off. Of course though, Shadow Sneak is mainly for those faster Pokemon that might be killed by it after some Stealth Rock / Spikes chip damage. It also is just great chip overall by itself.

As I briefly talked about in the previous paragraph, Decidueye does have some utility to help not get revenge killed. However, some of the better Pokemon right now, such as Sneasel and Incineroar, don't really care about the moves Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch. While this is true, both Incineroar and Sneasel really fear Z-Low Sweep, so they can't really act as counters by any means. Sneasel on the other hand, actually works as a check, being able to get off super effective hits with it's STAB moves. Outside of Sneasel though, there's not much else. Personally, I am a fan of Physically Defensive Hariyama, which I know a lot of people don't like simply for the fact that Passimian and Hariyama can't be on the same team, and Passimian is on most teams right now. However, it can act as a check considering that Deciudeye has used up it's z-move. Hariyama can then Toxic + Protect stall it, while clicking Knock Off in between / on SDs. Vanilluxe and Braviary also check, as well as a few other Pokemon.

You may notice in the last paragraph that I talked about a few Pokemon as counters. That's because counters to Decidueye are actually extremely limited. While a lot of Pokemon check, not a lot of Pokemon want to come in on a Sinister Arrow Raid, or perhaps just a Spirit Shackle in general (which also happens to trap). There are also a lot of other sets that Decidueye can run that are really good, like that Defog set and a couple of others, although I don't feel comfortable talking about them since I haven't really seen enough of it.

So, all in all, I think Decidueye is a great Pokemon since between it's STABs and Low Sweep, it doesn't have a lot of switch ins at all. I apologize if this seems a little messy since, while I have seen Decidueye a lot, I haven't done any personal testing with it, so this may seem a bit uninformed, but I think my point still stands.

-----------------------------------------------

These are pretty much the only two Pokemon I've really had any in-depth experience with, whether it be through testing or through watching others play. Some other nominations I agree with are Sneasel to S, Aerodactyl to B+/A-, and Quagsire somewhere in B.

 

[Ampharo]

Dhelmise> A-:
Particularly for hazard removal with substitute.
Dhelmise @ Leftovers
Brave Nature
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Substitute
- Power Whip
- Anchor Shot

Toxic lix is trending right now due to having a relatively good MU versus the two new hazard cleaners, and substitute with leftovers lets it beat toxlix with ease. And it makes lix choose between staying in and dying in return for getting rocks up or switching out and having something take a chunk from a 131+ Power Whip. I think it's better than decidueye as hazard remover in that it can more effectively trap setters due to having more offensive pressure than defog Decidueye to keep rockers from opting to switching out, and the fact that Dhelmise being slower than some rockers means that it will always spin after rocks and not before rocks (though that only really matters if you run another good set that targets rockers not named lix well, with tox over sub.)

252+ Atk Steelix Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dhelmise: 67-80 (19.4 - 23.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Steelix Heavy Slam (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dhelmise: 55-66 (15.9 - 19.1%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery

Piloswine A->A:
Reliably beats both defog Decidueye and spin Dhelmise with ice shard and icicle crash(though needs a little def investement to guarantee survival of power whip). Also, a rocker with ice shard is better than ever, with Aerodactyl, Dhelmise, and Deicdueye now in the tier.

Palossand A->B+:
It struggles as a rocker with the two new hazard removers we received, and also struggles more because of the effects decidueye and dhelmise have had on the tier, such as Piloswine and BU Braviary being more common.

 

[banks]

dhelmise -> b+ / a-
dhelmise is a very viable yet odd and fickle pokemon. thanks to it's unique dual typing lying in ghost / grass, stellar attack stat alongside passable defensive stats, dhelmise cements itself as a pokemon that capitalizes and comes in on centralizing pokemon (namely passimian, slowbro, steelix, rhydon, defesnive diacie and heliolisk) and is able of causing sever havoc in battle.

Dhelmise @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Anchor Shot
- Power Whip
- Rest
- Rapid Spin

Dhelmise @ Groundium Z / Colbur Berry / Choice Band
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Anchor Shot
- Power Whip
- Synthesis / Rapid Spin / Toxic
- Earthquake

these are the sets that i've been using the most, and i'm pretty happy with the results they've been putting out. adding onto the point above, the main aim of these sets is to get dhelmise into battle against water-types like vapo and toise and the aforementioned pokemon above, and just starting off immensely powerful attacks. dhelmise's best switch ins usually consist of incineroar, guzzlord and golbat (excluding bravairy cos i'll talk about that later), but as we can see by the following damage calcs

calcs

252+ Atk Steelworker Dhelmise Anchor Shot vs. 240 HP / 84 Def Eviolite Golbat: 117-138 (33.3 - 39.3%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252+ Atk Dhelmise Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 176-208 (53.1 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Steelworker Dhelmise Anchor Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Guzzlord: 240-283 (40.8 - 48.2%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-
252+ Atk Choice Band Steelworker Dhelmise Anchor Shot vs. 240 HP / 84 Def Eviolite Golbat: 174-205 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Dhelmise Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 264-312 (67 - 79.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Steelworker Dhelmise Anchor Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Guzzlord: 360-424 (61.3 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

dhelmise as it's on ways of denting them. additionally, passimian + flying-type counter such as curse steelix, rhydon or diancie is an amazing core at the moment, passimian dealing with pessimistic dark-types where as the flying-type checks ensure a sturdy check to pokemon like braviary and golbat. because of all these factors, i believe dhelmise should lie in the b+ / a- ranks

braviary b+ -> a-
braviary is seeing an influx in its utility due to the new drops, mainly decidueye and dhelmise, fearing little to nothing from either except maybe a z-low sweep. not saying this is the sole reason as to why braviary should rise, but it is undoubtedly a major contributing factor, getting free subs or bulk ups against them, or being able to revenge kill or pivot out with choice scarf case. sub + bulk up sets are gaining more traction again, with a lot of teams being slightly under-prepared for them, with the constant omnipresence of slowbro and people using steelix sets that actually lose to it in a 1v1 situation. as for choice scarf, it remains a good revenge killer with superpower to nail rock- and steel-types whilst having u-turn at its disposal to let in fierce wallbreakers against the likes of slowbro and diancie.

Braviary (M) @ Fightinium Z / Flyinium Z
Ability: Defiant
EVs 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- Superpower

this is the real reason i wanted to nom this mon up, offensive bulk up roost braviary has proven very solid in test games thus far, setting up on the aforementioned decidueye and dhelmise, as well as many others including defensive slowbro (in the fear of bulk up it usually switches out), xatu, palossand, grass-types, incineroar in fear of scarf / being faster (or you can just kill it with superpower), and many many others (including some offensive mons like sneasel, vani and helio). once this mon gets a bulk up, it can prove extremely detrimental to opposing teams, which is best demonstrated in the following calcs

wall of calcs

offensive:
+1 252+ Atk Braviary All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 354-418 (100.5 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Braviary All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 374-440 (90.3 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Braviary All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Diancie: 229-270 (95 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Braviary Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 210-247 (53.2 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Braviary Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 331-391 (84 - 99.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Braviary Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 332-392 (82.1 - 97%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Braviary Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowbro: 286-337 (72.5 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
defensive:
252+ Atk Steelix Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. +1 8 HP / 0 Def Braviary: 136-162 (39.6 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Steelix Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. +1 8 HP / 0 Def Braviary: 96-114 (27.9 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Passimian Close Combat vs. +1 8 HP / 0 Def Braviary: 157-186 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO

for the record, i personally like fight z much more than flyinium, but flyinium does nail defensive slowbro if that's more desirable for your team. sneasel is a nice partner for this, successfully trapping rotom and denting vanilluxe (evs allow you to outspeed modest vani) alongside garb or ferro, either providing spikes support which greatly aids braviary in koing the things it needs to.

i also believe that dodrio should rise up to b-, much for the same reasons as braviary | supporting sneasel for s | in disagreement for piloswine rising | content with decidueye being around a / a+ | would place aerodactyl around about b / b+ | believe that absol should rise to b- as well

 

[shiloh]

nu viability rankings update | july 25th, 2018

like last time im going to include a spreadsheet with how we voted.

click here to check it out
​

heres a summary of rises and drops:

rises

absol c+ -> b-
articuno ur -> c-
braviary b+ -> a-
delphox b- -> b
garbodor b+ -> a-
rotom a- -> a
vaporeon b -> b+

drops

crustle c- -> ur
druddigon b+ -> b
lycanroc c -> c-
piloswine a- -> b+
tangela b- -> c+

i also decided that instead of voting on the new drops we'd discuss them as a council and rank them based on the discussion / posts from the thread, so here are the new ranks:

Aerodactyl -> B-
Decidueye -> A+
Dhelmise -> B+
Quagsire -> B-

some points regarding the voting this time

• decidueye was ranked so high initially because of the impacts its already had on the tier and how the meta has shifted to it. while this may change in the future, at the moment a majority of us believe that it was worth putting in a+ for the time being.
• dhelmise has similar attacking strength w/ slightly better coverage but less speed and no prio. spin is a great niche though, and i can see this mon moving up or down based on how the meta adapts.
• aerodactyl was kept in b- because of its blazing fast speed and power with cb, or the ability to mess up defensive builds with subtox if played right.
• quagsire was kept in b- for now because its still been largely untested in comparison to pyuku especially on stall builds, though many are still going with pyuku so we kept it lower to start out.
• passimian wasnt moved to s despite it being one of the most common mons in the tier, and the best scarfer in the tier at the moment. there still remains a large amount of counterplay though, and it just doesnt fit in with slowbro / incineroar who both just dominate the tier defensively and offensively.
• we didnt rank kingler because we failed to see what it has over samurott. while kingler may be a+ in pu, samurott was banned from there because it outclasses kingler for the most part. while kingler does hit hard unboosted on the physical side, samurott can easily go fully specially and break defensive lix / bro cores. it also has jet over kingler which helps a lot vs scarfers in the tier.

most other points / noms were talking about in some really good posts in this thread, so keep up the posts. let us know if you have any questions, or if you need anything explained more. would also like to add elodin is now on the vr council in order to keep us at an odd number.

discussion points

• new drops, what changes have we been seeing to make them move up or down
• braviary -> a, sub bulk up and offensive sets wall the new grasses and have an amazing spot in the meta currently
• whatever you feel

 

[Rabia]

I have more noms because this is all I do with my time please provide me with more activities

rises

A+ -> S
Much like how I believe Sneasel to represent the current meta and worthy of S-rank, Diancie is easily a top 5 at least Pokemon and should move up to S (that should also say how I believe the gap between Incineroar and Slowbro and the rest of A+ to not be as great as some would argue). Part of this nomination is based on Diancie being a more than serviceable answer to many top tier threats: Incineroar, Sneasel, Passimian, Guzzlord (Steel coverage begone), Medicham, etc. Diancie is so damn splashable as a Pokemon because of the large range of things it checks; hell, it even is a good answer to the rising Braviary. Yes, I understand that drops weren't too great for it, specifically Decidueye, but the splashability and reliability of Diancie, in my opinion, more than warrants a raise to S.

A -> A+
In a meta where Incineroar, Slowbro, and Decidueye run rampant, Guzzlord is a really nice pick because of what its defensive typing allows it to check. Not much else has changed other than the clear centralization around the above listed Pokemon, though I do want to draw attention to that disgusting defensive Guzzlord set that allows it to reliably answer threats like Incineroar and Decidueye (though SD Incineroar threatens much more to break through Guzzlord). This thing still does what it does offensively too, so that's neat.

A- -> A
Braviary sort of just sets up on all the prevalent bulky Pokemon right now and punishes entry hazard removal because of Defiant. I've been using the fast BU Fly Z set, though Fight Z sounds nice to break Diancie harder. It also checks Decidueye lacking Low Sweep, which is nice.

C+ -> higher
I love this Pokemon so much in the current meta. Being a fairly reliable switch-in to the myriad of offensive Grass-types we have in the tier is really valuable, while Golbat still does old Golbat things: prevent Stealth Rock from going up via Taunt, using Toxic on fat Waters, and so forth. The only set worth running is Fast Bat, but it's a pretty reliable set currently.

drops

A -> A-
it still hasn't had its rank adjusted even though it dropped like 2 shifts ago unless I'm just really dumb then ignore this lol

B- -> lower
I just haven't ever seen this Pokemon put in consistent work, nor do I see it often enough on high ladder or tournament play to make me feel it has a niche worthy of it being in the B ranks. Maybe mixed Work Up would help? Someone in chat mentioned that before. I don't believe Cincinno's niche as a normal breaker is as great as the other B- rank Pokemon.

 

[kay]

Rises:

B- --> B+
So this has a lot similar with Count Riario post on Kingler. Its a SD boosting water type that takes no issue with the tiers water resists right now. Things like Slowbro and Guzzlord are just prey to it, and with croak leaving you no longer have the issue of never wanting to set up and click AJ. Its a lot less match up dependent now and it finds itself in a nice spot to abuse all the current trends. Just win the speed tie against Decidueye.

C+ --> B+
Golbats been so low for so long, I think its about time someone seriously nommed it for where it should be. The sheer bulk allows it to deal with a large amount of the tier right now, ranging from fighting types, grass type, fairy types, and a lot of different rockers. You have sets ranging from Defog with Taunt, Toxic, and Super Fang making up the filler slot, or even non Defog sets running Toxic + Taunt to break down balance. The sheer utility in a match it offers you is insane and I think this bat has a worse stigma around it then is deserved.

A --> A+ Agreed
This might be a stretch for its viability, but if there was ever a time for it to move up it would be now. Being able to deal with Decidueye as well as Incineroar and the Slow brothers means there is always going to be a chance to slap it on a team. And its sheer versatility keeps people guessing as to what set you have. Banded, specs, z-move, AV, and even rest-talk is something I've been playing around with. Its switch ins are few and the opportunity to use its bulk and typing are plentiful. Definitely one of the most meta defining mons in the tier right now.



Drops:

B --> C/ C-
Why we have this ranked this high is beyond me. Sure having an ice resist and flying resist in one slot with recovery is nice, but it doesn't fit on a lot of teams thanks to how passive it is. Teams are often times better off just throwing a lix on a team + an ice resist then trying to compress this much, or just use Silvally Steel. Definitely a mon that the meta doesn't need right now.

B+ --> B
I literally haven't seen this mon do anything since this gen started. I've always just assumed it was good because it never really dropped, but after thinking about it more and more I think its a mon thats much better on paper then it is in practice. No bulk means you're never getting it in safely, any kind of chip ruins in the sash, and Sneasel being as good as it is means if you ever do lose your sash you're basically a dead mon. I'm extremely unimpressed with this mon and I haven't seen any evidence it should be kept in the higher ranks of B in a very long time.

A- --> B+
In a meta without Croak that also happens to be run over by Ghost types, Palossand really struggles to find footing in this meta. You have the option to drop Epower on it in place for Toxic now which is nice for its viability, but the meta just doesn't need the catch all fighting resist that deals with everything like it did. Its still a solid rocker so I think it would be a strong option in B+, but A- is just too high for how things are right now.

 

[Yoshi]

-> A
I've seen a ton of people sleeping on this mon for a while now so it is easy to see why there might be some confusion on why this might be a discussion point in the first place. Most people are familiar with Braviary's Sub Bulk Up set, and of course, this is the one warranting the rise. One of the things that made this so much better is the new additions of the Grass-types, Dhelmise and Decidueye. Braviary is able to check both of these (considering Decidueye is not Z-Low Sweep), which makes it a valuable addition to teams that are weak to the two. Another thing that makes this Pokemon so valuable right now is that it's so easy to set up on the bulkier Pokemon in the tier, like Slowbro which isn't often running Psyshock thanks to the lack of Toxicroak allowing it to run Calm Mind and Toxic on the same set. This means you'll find Braviary being able to clean teams much, much easier, especially thanks to the fact that phazers like Blastoise are becoming uncommon, and better yet others like Steelix are not running Roar as often, due to the prevalence of other moves, and in the case of Steelix, Protect or Toxic (or both, if you drop Earthquake).

-> A-
I did a whole in depth analysis on this Pokemon before but I think after reading the reasoning for placing Dhelmise in B+ that a lot of people are sleeping on the fact that it's extremely hard to switch into Dhelmise, especially since it carries Knock Off. For example, Golbat can stall out Dhelmise as long as it has its Eviolite still attached. Since Dhelmise has Knock Off, Dhelmise can simply click it on the switch to Golbat, which is probably coming in in fear of a Power Whip or an Earthquake. After losing it's Eviolite, Golbat takes around 70% from a banded Anchor Shot, meaning it cannot Roost stall Dhelmise.

To sum up the above paragraph in a more organized point, I really think that we're underestimating Dhelmise's power. While it is slow and a bit frail, if you can get it in with Volt Switch and U-Turn support, Dhelmise is sure to wreak havoc on the opposing team, especially when it has the necessary utility to deal with it's checks. This applies mainly to the Choice Band set, I haven't tried out any other set personally but people have talked about them in a few posts I read above, and I think with those sets and this set and it's sheer power in mind, there should be a rise for Dhelmise, or at least a reconsideration.

-> A+
I'm going to have to agree with this nomination too, I haven't tried Guzzlord yet personally but I intend too, it just works so great right now with, like Kay said, the slowbrothers, Incineroar, and Decidueye being everywhere. It's also extremely versatile, having like four or five different sets that are all great in their own way, which is another benefit that Guzzlord has right now. There's really nothing new here that I'd like to add, I just wanted to echo the nomination because I really do support this, I think some people are sleeping on Guzzlord so it would be nice to see it rise on the VR.

Honestly I couldn't think of anything right now, but if something comes up I'll be sure to post about it.

 

[Earth]

Weezing: C- > C / C+

I think Weezing now has a somewhat decent niche in the current NU metagame, as it is flooded with powerful physical Pokemon that Weezing easily takes care of. It's able to punish Passimian with Rocky Helmet, keeping Passimian from clicking U-Turn as it pleases, while still checking offensive Grass mons like Torterra and Dhelmise, which is very much needed for most teams; not to forget most offense teams struggle to have switch-ins to Sludge Bomb. I think it's very interesting to use currently, as it's also a great check to Steelix which is a common rocker and Night Shade Xatu. This makes me think it definitely deserves a slight rise in rankings, as it has a much more solidified niche in the tier than anything else in C-.

Sigilyph: B+ > B-

New drops and current metagame trends make it harder for Sigilyph to prosper; in a metagame where Dark-type mons are very popular threats, Sigilyph has a lot of trouble to successfully abuse its STABs. When Incineroar is the top 1 threat and Sneasel is a dangerous trapper, there isn't much room for Sigilyph to properly shine. I don't think it has what it needs to stay B+ right now, as it's simply not on the same level as the other B+ mons.

Malamar: B > B-

Malamar is another Pokemon that suffers from metagame trends. I think mainly because of the popularity of Passimian which can pretty much click U-Turn recklessly, making it harder for Malamar to properly set-up on anything. Another problem for Malamar is the presence of Fairy-type mons, which make it even harder for it to set-up -- with mons like Diancie and Whimsicott running around, it's extremely hard for Malamar to stay relevant. It can also be checked by Palossand; overall, I just think Malamar has way too many issues to deal with to stay in B.