Transform Glitch in HGSS: Learn Any Move!

[Odinwolf]

I spotted this on another forum and I thought I'd bring it up here to see how the Smogon community feels about it. In HG/SS, a user of Transform that transforms into a pokemon with the move "Rage" and then burns up the PP before the battle is over seems to keep the new moveset after the battle is over.

Considering Smeargle can Sketch any move, this means that Mew and Ditto can now learn ANY move in the game. Draco Meteor Mew ftw?

What makes this a little worse is that Mimic works on Transform. So using a double battle and some crazy shenanigans, you can use the mimic/transform combo to get any move onto:

Jigglypuff, Mr. Mime, Mime Jr., Sudowoodo, Bonsly, & Chatot

But that's just for 4th Gen native Pokemon. If you go back to Gen3, Mimic was a move tutor to nearly the entire pokedex. Check this link for the complete list. So pokemon captured in Gen3 who are tutored Mimic can be PalParked up to HGSS, mimic transform, transform into a Smeargle with any move he's sketched and legitimately, within the mechanics of the cartridges, have just about anything they want for competition.

So just for giggles we might see some:

• Ninjask with Spore and Super Fang
• Zapdos with Ice Beam
• Kyogre with Recover and/or Tail Glow
• Shedinja with Pain Split
• Snorlax with ExtremeSpeed (useful and hilarious)

and any number of crazy sets you can think of. I think its pretty obvious this is game-breaking and probably won't be allowed on Shoddy, but I wonder how Nintendo would handle something like this at their VGC events? You aren't using a cheat-device to get these moves on your poke, just the mechanics Game Freak put into the game using some unexpected, if convoluted tricks to make it happen.

On the plus side, if it was allowed, pretty much EVERYTHING would get Rapid Spin now. Wouldn't that be fantastic? To be perfectly honest, I don't think any of the pokemon that could do this WITHOUT the tutor from 3rd gen are that dangerous anyways, so even if it is banned, I would love to see an exception allowed for 4th Gen Pokemon only to use it. That would give us just a few new tools to work with, but wouldn't be game breaking at all. Mew would probably become more powerful in the Ubers game, but would Wigglytuff suddenly go into suspect testing with any move at its disposal? What do you guys think?

edit - I should note I haven't tested the Mimic/Transform thing myself yet, so I'm not sure if its a legitimate concern. If somehow the glitch doesn't work when you Mimic Transform, then this would be an almost negligible difference. Ditto probably still wouldn't be OU and Mew could just beast in Ubers, which is a ban tier anyways. Updates to come if I can verify a test on the Mimic trick.

 

[-FUCK-]

• Shedinja with Pain Split

*Spits soda all over his computer screen*


Well as obviously game breaking and fun as it would be we all know damn well it won't be allowed. Just because it can be done on the cartridge without any AR doesn't mean we HAVE to accept it, it still classifies as a glitch.


But at the same time, Shoddy 2 is getting the acid rain glitch, and one of the mods (Obi I think?) said its going to be implemented because we want to stay true to the game cartridge, soooo hmmmmm, we wouldn't want to be hypocrits now would we? :naughty:

 

[Daniel Craig]

wow im so going to try this

also many may use this glitch to get event or other rarely seen pokemon such as extremespeed zig/linoone and one that im most antipating the rise of flare blitz entei over wifi.

tbh it wont be allowed on shoddy but i think many will exploit this and we will see (as you stated before) many new wacky combanations :)

 

[ΩDonut]

Why stop at Shedinja with Pain Split when you can just give him Endeavor?

The language of the VGC rules specifically restricts the moves that can be learned (via level-up, breeding, Sketch, or TM\HM\tutor, not simply "in-game"). So don't expect to see any of these at a VGC near you.

Also, when was this first posted? I'd like to see a link to this "other forum".

 

[wildfire393]

IIRC there was a kinda similar bug in 2nd gen that somehow allowed users of Metronome to learn any move via Metronoming Sketch and then re-learning the move through the person who could let you re-learn forgotten moves.

It seems like this is far too abusive to be allowed. You think some Pokemon are too good now? Wait until Scizor adds Meteor Mash, Close Combat, and Sucker Punch to his arsenal. Heatran with Ice Beam over HP Ice and access to Draco Meteor over Dragon Pulse. As stated already, Ninjask gets automatic turns to set up with Spore. A lot of Pokemon have amazing stats but are kept down by their movepool.

 

[Diana]

Interesting find, though I'm against allowing this for competitive battles. Letting the majority of Pokemon get three moves of their choosing (plus one they normally get to replace Rage) is beyond anything competitive.

That being said, the thought of using Endeavor Shedinja (dang it I was typing that before I saw someone mention it lol) or Flare Blitz Flareon in a match with friends or such to see who can make the most broken movesets seems amusing.

 

[FlareBlitz]

As stated earlier, if we emulate the Acid Rain glitch, it would be hypocritical not to emulate this one as well. The obvious difference between the two is that the acid rain glitch has little competitive consequence, while this has absolutely massive competitive consequences, but that shouldn't count for much if our ultimate goal is to emulate the cartridge games with the strictest feasible accuracy. I think people might argue that we want to maintain the sanctity of our (relatively) balanced metagame and ignore certain aspects of the cartridge games...but then that opens up a whole 'nother can of worms.

 

[gamer22]

i guess this would be awesome for ingame only like the battle tower or something

but over wi fi not good

 

[Odinwolf]

Interesting note: this doesn't make ANY moveset legal. The Smeargle that you transform into has to have Rage. So 1/4 of your moves either has to be Rage, a level up move or a TM/HM. It still makes 3/4 moves anything you want, but there is a small restriction.

I'm going to advocate that we allow this for 4th Gen pokes only, but not any of the Gen3 move-tutored pokemon. I think that is probably a fair compromise between staying true to emulating the actual cartridges and totally fubaring the game up. Although I would love to see a special server that allowed this glitch in full. Would be crazy to see how things shake out.

 

[Pika25]

Even something like Ice Beam on pika!? That would shoot Pikachu all the way back to UU, and it could even OHKO bulkymence in OU (damage calcs say 97.5% - 114.7% to a max/max Careful variant, as opposed to 72.1% - 85.3% from HP Ice).

Mew Spore? Mew already has plenty of options for Baton Pass, and Spore would simply be an upgrade to Hypnosis' shaky accuracy.

Shame that Garchomp still doesn't have DD, nor Uxie Recover...

For the LC, Wingull Surf and Water Spout!? Glutton Zig BD/X Speed more accessible!?

Still a glitch, so just ban those specific moves (at least on Shoddy) anyway. But in BT is possible to sweep with No Guard Scarf Machamp's Sheer Cold (Be aware of Sturdy in which case you have to Dpunch by switching to a death fodder first)

 

[Little Green Yoda]

Interesting note: this doesn't make ANY moveset legal. The Smeargle that you transform into has to have Rage. So 1/4 of your moves either has to be Rage, a level up move or a TM/HM. It still makes 3/4 moves anything you want, but there is a small restriction.

What's preventing Rage from being deleted and replaced by another move again? After you activate the supposed glitch, that is.

 

[ck49]

THis was discussed about an hour ago in the shoddy forum. They said we can control what can come in the battle (i.e. no kyogre in OU) but not what happens in the battle. Because the only way to prevent baning acid rain in would be banning all weather inducers and weather moves, it is allowed. They can, however, ban all weather inducers and moves, just like they can't ban you from using mimic on a smeargle, but they can ban you from using the pokemon with the move.

edit: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2561695#post2561695

 

[Odinwolf]

What's preventing Rage from being deleted and replaced by another move again? After you activate the supposed glitch, that is.

That is precisely what I said. One of the Smeargle moves has to be Rage. So you can delete it and replace it with a new move, but since using the glitch again would write Rage again by necessity, when you replace Rage, it has to be with a legit level up move, TM or HM. So you cannot have ANY four moves on a poke. You can have three of ANY moves plus a fourth from your normal movepool. So even with this glitch, there are still "illegal" sets.

THis was discussed about an hour ago in the shoddy forum. They said we can control what can come in the battle (i.e. no kyogre in OU) but not what happens in the battle. Because the only way to prevent baning acid rain in would be banning all weather inducers and weather moves, it is allowed. They can, however, ban all weather inducers and moves, just like they can't ban you from using mimic on a smeargle, but they can ban you from using the pokemon with the move.

Actually, since Pursuit is the move that activates acid rain, you could just ban the move pursuit and the glitch will never appear. You don't need to ban weather inducers and/or inducing moves at all. Although... castform and cherim cause the game to lock up, so you might need to ban those two pokemon if you are going to allow the acid rain glitch.

 

[Cshadow]

This could be interesting, many Pokemon are chosen over others for one move or another. For example, People would rather have Snorlax over Lickilicky (for one reason or another that I may disagree with :E) because Lickilicky lacks Crunch or Pursuit. This could lead to some fun experimenting, and confirmation on whether or not X Pokemon would be chosen over Y because Y lacked the right move.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Why stop at Shedinja with Pain Split when you can just give him Endeavor?

The language of the VGC rules specifically restricts the moves that can be learned (via level-up, breeding, Sketch, or TM\HM\tutor, not simply "in-game"). So don't expect to see any of these at a VGC near you.

Also, when was this first posted? I'd like to see a link to this "other forum".

Why use Endeavor Shedinja when you can use Ice Shard/Dragon Rage/Endeavor Clefa, (LV1) Clefairy (LV2) and Clefable (LV2)? :P (With the team headed off by explosion scarf'd abamasnow)

 

[Steeler]

it basically becomes a battle of which player uses the pokemon with the best stat distrubutions/type combinations since anyone can run anything...

 

[matty]

This has been discussed and it was also found that there is a variation of this glitch that allows you to get any pokemon that can learn mimic with any move. Because this combination allows for many more moves then were intended (i.e. Aerodactyl with Head Smash and Brave Bird), that it was decided we would not implement this.

The difference between this and the Platinum Weather, is that one occurs outside of battle, while the other occurs in battle. This means that we can control what people bring into battle, thus preventing them from bringing in Pokemon with moves acquired that way, while we can't stop the Platinum Weather from activating if the circumstances for that come to fruition in the middle of a battle.

Please read this before further discussion goes on

 

[haunter]

Yeah, this has already been discussed.