After reaching #1 on the ladder with a new (weatherless!) team I decided to make an RMT out of it. Be free to check it out and discuss: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/tier-shift-mow-you-down-ranked-1.3486616/#post-4780791
Lol.So I have been playing some Tier Shift, and I'm actually liking it a lot. I've been using a Hail team with Specs Glaceon and Scarf Rotom-F and its really fun. Glaceon hits extremely hard with its naturally high Special Attack the Specs and TS boost coupled with a perfect accuracy high BP attack. It easily KOs anything that doesnt resist Ice. Anyway, has anyone tried Hail or any other weather?
You can use them, and they get stat boosts based on which tier they are in (Chansey gets +5 in each stat because it is in BL, Riolu gets +15 in each stat because it is LC, Scyther gets +10 in each stat because it is in RU, etc.)Why don't LC and NFE Pokemon get in on the fun?
Those are BL and such.You can use them, and they get stat boosts based on which tier they are in (Chansey gets +5 in each stat because it is in BL, Riolu gets +15 in each stat because it is LC, Scyther gets +10 in each stat because it is in RU, etc.)
I think it's because LC isn't affected by usage like the other tiers are, and NFE isn't a tier. Also, there are some 'mons that are in a standard tier and LC at the same time, like Snover was until just recently. All 'mons that are listed under LC or NFE will get the +15 boost from NU.Those are BL and such.
NU gets +15, so why don't NFE get +20 and LC +25?
So NFE and LC are really just sub tiers of NU?I think it's because LC isn't affected by usage like the other tiers are, and NFE isn't a tier. Also, there are some 'mons that are in a standard tier and LC at the same time, like Snover was until just recently. All 'mons that are listed under LC or NFE will get the +15 boost from NU.
Because NFE isn't a tier, and LC isn't a tier based off usage, which causes complications. For example, Ferroseed is an RU pokemon and gets +10. However, it is also an LC pokemon, so it would receive (let's say) +30. Now obviously it's not getting +40, but which boost would apply? You could argue for both. Also, I don't see any benefit that giving LC +30 would bring to Tier Shift.Why don't LC and NFE Pokemon get in on the fun?
Or you can just apply the 20+ bonus to NFE/LC like you do for NU. For pokes that are in the same boat as Ferroseed and Porygon2, you could just only apply the RU/UU/etc. bonus.Because NFE isn't a tier, and LC isn't a tier based off usage, which causes complications. For example, Ferroseed is an RU pokemon and gets +10. However, it is also an LC pokemon, so it would receive (let's say) +30. Now obviously it's not getting +40, but which boost would apply? You could argue for both. Also, I don't see any benefit that giving LC +30 would bring to Tier Shift.
Repeat after me: poorly used tier is your friend. All the pokemon thant don't get used in Nu are now staple pokemon in Pu.Hi, I've been playing around with tiershift a lot, experimenting with lots of NU pokemon. I like the spirit of it - or at least, my perception of its spirit - leveling the playing field and making all non-OU pokemon more worthy of being "OU". It's an attempt at leveling the playing field? To being more inclusive and offering more choice for team building.
The problem is that it doesn't really tackle the issues surrounding NU pokemon. It might, for RU and above, but at least as far as NU is concerned, giving Moltres +15 in all stats doesn't really make it a better pokemon. It does reward you for utilizing pokemon like Moltres ('legendaries' [I call anything with 600 BST a legendary] with terrible typing) effectively, but it doesn't really tackle some of the bigger issues - like, as an example, I'll name Beedrill. Beedrill as a pokemon - just plain sucks. Why is this? He doesn't have horrible typing like Moltres, he's at least got some interesting moves like Drillrun and Toxic Spikes - he could be really good, right? But he's not, simply because there are too many pokemon with higher base attack and speed - which are the only stats Beedrill excels at.
You can give Beedrill +15 to all stats, but who cares?
65 hp, 80 atk, 40 def, 45 spa, 80 spd, 75 spe
Become
80 hp, 95 atk, 55 def, 60 spa, 95 spd, 90 spe
He has terrible defenses, below average base hp, a usable attack stat, and that's really it. He has no useful ability and doesn't get any notable moves above 100 base power. His two stab attacks have a maximum base power of 80 and due to his inability to wall, he can't really support much. At best, he's a scarfer with u-turn, but this really limits his second good trait: the variety of moves he can use at once. Compare him to a common threat like Jirachi or Victini? Nevermind any of the bulky Dragons, who could wall any of his attacks with ease. Beedrill would need +50 to all stats to be made useful, let's be honest - and that's a rather clumsy way to "fix" pokemon, to give select NU pokemon huge boosts in stats. For instance, Flareon's problems aren't stats, just his abysmal movepool. Moltres sort of has a similar problem.
In order to balance many NU pokemon, we would need tailor-made solutions for each. A single move or ability here or there could propel a pokemon to UU. What if Beedrill got Megahorn? Would be useful then? What if he got speed boost? But we can't have a tier that applies such specific changes to pokemon, because we need to be reasonable here - we can't expect players of any tier to pick up a patch note list every time they enter a battle. If we arbitrarily gave Beedrill +30 base speed, how would anyone know this ahead of time? Part of pokemon is a game of prediction, you need to be able to predict if your Beedrill can outspeed that Flareon or not. We need a uniform rule set that players can easily apply, yet one which is also flexible.
I don't think making +15 become +20 is a good idea. As it already is, I'm finding Vigoroth with Eviolite or Throh with leftovers (and mold breaker) to be incredibly cheesy walls that rival Skarmory and Blissey in terms of "holy fuck how did he just tank that", the problem with +15 to all stats is we're making NU pokemon significantly more bulky (since +15 to all 3 defensive stats is making them much more well-rounded) instead of significantly more useful. Is the solution to making NU work to diminish the sweeping power of a choice-banded V-Create or a Gengar shadow ball against these pokemon? It just seems like a ham-fisted solution to a difficult problem.
Maybe this is the wrong place to post this, but I really think a more radical idea should be proposed for tier shift. An entire re-design? I mean, is +5 to all base stats really making a difference in the UU vs OU matchup? Certainly, certain pokemon could use stat boosts to be made viable, but I think move/ability issues are what're really holding everything back. There aren't enough checks against weather or hazards like stealth rocks for NU pokemon to ever become viable, unless we pump up their stats so high that we basically force all players to follow the current metagame, instead of trying to find ways to break through it and innovate.
What I want to suggest here, is that Tier Shift's rules change. Drop all the stat boosts and substitute these base stat increases with "extra EVs". If you're using a NU pokemon, you get X bonus EVs to spend beyond the normal 512. The effect here is that instead of trying to make NU pokemon more jack-of-all-trades-y we're trying to make them more specialized. Maybe I can put 300 EV in Beedril's speed stat? Maybe with a Jolly nature he can outspeed certain threats and... um, do something before he gets one shot? Okay, maybe Beedrill will never compete with OU pokemon at this point, but short of this idea - the only thing I can comprehend is letting NU pokemon have all non-unique moves available to their base type. That is to say, if you're Beedrill (bug/poison), you now have access to all Bug and Poison moves, even if you didn't previously. If you're Flareon, you now have access to Flamethrower or Flare Blitz - perhaps this happens in addition to getting +15 to all base stats, but this would only be in effect for NU pokemon. The only other solution I've thought about is letting tier shift pokemon "buy abilities" with their EVs or base stats... though that sounds horribly convoluted. And certain pokemon like Slaking would need to be excluded.
One other idea is that NU pokemon can have two simultaneous abilities active at once, if they have more than one. Beedrill would have Swarm and Sniper active at once. Pokemon with only one ability (or an unreleased DW ability) would be left out of this idea.
One last idea I had was to allow NU pokemon to have access to any of the three following abilities in addition of their normal ones: Cloud Nine, Sturdy, Tinted Lens. Maybe this isn't the greatest idea, but wouldn't you be more tempted to use NU pokemon if they could perform better against weather teams? If they could be guaranteed to survive at least one hit without using up an item slot? Tinted Lens would let many pokemon with horrible movepools at least hit better with not very effective types.
Are my thoughts welcome here? Or am I just annoying for suggesting such sweeping review?