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NOC THERE ARE VAMPS ITG (Game Over: Village Wins!)
- Thread starter Texas Cloverleaf
- Start date
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Hey he's just seizing the opportunity
Ok so since I don't believe in randvoting (and yes NOC posting is just random voting based on meaningless 'behavioral' bullshit) let's see if we can actually ascertain the proper way to play this game based on something a bit more substantial
The first and most important thing to frame any discussion of this game is this: all players except for the Vampire Hunter can be recruited. What this means is that, at the outset, only the Vampire Hunter and the Vampire can truly not win together. Anyone else can win with anyone else in theory. I would encourage people not to consider themselves as proper villagers this game but as a group that moves and acts most efficiently when it is moving together. All vanillas (+ the Witch Doctor and Backup) can shift their win conditions as a bloc if we choose to do so, and therefore it is imperative that this bloc move together to ensure that as many of us win as possible.
Ok, now that we have that framing out of the way, let's consider possible ways for us to win:
1. We lynch the Witch Doctor or Vampire, and then lynch the Vampire Hunter.
Explanation: In this scenario, we ensure that the Backup either immediately becomes a Vampire OR becomes a convertible role, and we then lynch the Vampire Hunter, thus ensuring that everyone left in the game can win together along with the Vampire.
2. We lynch the Witch Doctor or Vampire, then lynch the Vampire(s) OR the Vampire Hunter successfully slays the Vampire.
Explanation: Same scenario as above, though it is worth noting that if the Vampire successfully converts someone on N1 then that person will lose. This is how the game is 'supposed' to be played in my opinion, but may or may not be the best way for vanillas to proceed.
3. We uselessly go on our own ways and some of us end up winning with whichever side we end up on, and some of us end up losing.
Explanation: For sheep.
Seriously though, people should be keeping their minds open to possible routes of victory. The Vampire Hunter and Vampire are the real enemies to us as of now, since they represent the entire reason for us not being able to already pack things up and call it a day with an easy win.
Now then, I do think there is one thing we should do as a group that 100% benefits us: The Witch Doctor or Backup should claim as a D1 sacrifice to be lynched in exchange for us promising to help the Vampire Hunter over the Vampire.
Think through this carefully: let's say that we lynched the Vampire today, the 'ideal' outcome, right? Well, in this case, the Backup ends up becoming a Vampire, and we are in precisely the same situation as if we had lynched the Backup or Witch Doctor in the first place.
Of course the issue is that the one who is the sacrifice will die as town as become unconvertible, so I promise that as a vanilla I will do everything in my power to help the Vampire Hunter should one of those two roles step up. The odds of a town victory if we remove the 'insurance' policy of the Vampire in the backup are fairly high.
One additional argument for why the Backup in particular should step up to be lynched: let's say that you end up becoming the Vampire yourself because the Vampire Hunter or the town killed the original Alpha Vampire. In this case you will become a fledling Vampire and your original alpha will be eliminated, meaning that you will be pretty much up shit creek without a paddle. If you get yourself lynched initially, however, you not only boost town chances at winning but also ensure that you will win with the town no matter what else happens. In other words, you eliminate the possibility of becoming a Vampire in the future in a disadvantageous situation, guarantee yourself alliance with the town, AND boost town chances by guaranteeing that the Vampire Hunter only needs to deal with the Vampires and no one else.
One other thing:
- The Vampire Hunter does not act as a Cop on nights where the Vampire can convert. The Vampire Hunter outspeeds the Vampire conversion, meaning that if both the Vampire Hunter and the Vampire target the same individual that individual will become a Vampire at the end of the night regardless. The Vampire Hunter does act as a Cop on nights where the Vampire cannot convert, however.
Ok so tl;dr:
- Backup in particular but maybe the Witch Doctor instead should step up and claim so that we can lynch you D1 and remove the Vampire's insurance policy
- Vanillas should keep an open mind about who to win with until someone steps up and locks in. Once they do, town is definitely in a better spot to win. If no one does, imo vanillas should treat both the Vampire Hunter and Vampire as mortal enemies since they are the ones holding us hostage in this game without being able to win.
In terms of behavior ya you can look for changes in behavior but honestly I don't buy much into behavioral bullshit, I wanna see people's opinions on strategy. I'll draw my conclusions of cleanliness from the level of analysis provided into strategic goals for vanillas, not soul reads or w.e the flip.
The first and most important thing to frame any discussion of this game is this: all players except for the Vampire Hunter can be recruited. What this means is that, at the outset, only the Vampire Hunter and the Vampire can truly not win together. Anyone else can win with anyone else in theory. I would encourage people not to consider themselves as proper villagers this game but as a group that moves and acts most efficiently when it is moving together. All vanillas (+ the Witch Doctor and Backup) can shift their win conditions as a bloc if we choose to do so, and therefore it is imperative that this bloc move together to ensure that as many of us win as possible.
Ok, now that we have that framing out of the way, let's consider possible ways for us to win:
1. We lynch the Witch Doctor or Vampire, and then lynch the Vampire Hunter.
Explanation: In this scenario, we ensure that the Backup either immediately becomes a Vampire OR becomes a convertible role, and we then lynch the Vampire Hunter, thus ensuring that everyone left in the game can win together along with the Vampire.
2. We lynch the Witch Doctor or Vampire, then lynch the Vampire(s) OR the Vampire Hunter successfully slays the Vampire.
Explanation: Same scenario as above, though it is worth noting that if the Vampire successfully converts someone on N1 then that person will lose. This is how the game is 'supposed' to be played in my opinion, but may or may not be the best way for vanillas to proceed.
3. We uselessly go on our own ways and some of us end up winning with whichever side we end up on, and some of us end up losing.
Explanation: For sheep.
Seriously though, people should be keeping their minds open to possible routes of victory. The Vampire Hunter and Vampire are the real enemies to us as of now, since they represent the entire reason for us not being able to already pack things up and call it a day with an easy win.
Now then, I do think there is one thing we should do as a group that 100% benefits us: The Witch Doctor or Backup should claim as a D1 sacrifice to be lynched in exchange for us promising to help the Vampire Hunter over the Vampire.
Think through this carefully: let's say that we lynched the Vampire today, the 'ideal' outcome, right? Well, in this case, the Backup ends up becoming a Vampire, and we are in precisely the same situation as if we had lynched the Backup or Witch Doctor in the first place.
Of course the issue is that the one who is the sacrifice will die as town as become unconvertible, so I promise that as a vanilla I will do everything in my power to help the Vampire Hunter should one of those two roles step up. The odds of a town victory if we remove the 'insurance' policy of the Vampire in the backup are fairly high.
One additional argument for why the Backup in particular should step up to be lynched: let's say that you end up becoming the Vampire yourself because the Vampire Hunter or the town killed the original Alpha Vampire. In this case you will become a fledling Vampire and your original alpha will be eliminated, meaning that you will be pretty much up shit creek without a paddle. If you get yourself lynched initially, however, you not only boost town chances at winning but also ensure that you will win with the town no matter what else happens. In other words, you eliminate the possibility of becoming a Vampire in the future in a disadvantageous situation, guarantee yourself alliance with the town, AND boost town chances by guaranteeing that the Vampire Hunter only needs to deal with the Vampires and no one else.
One other thing:
- The Vampire Hunter does not act as a Cop on nights where the Vampire can convert. The Vampire Hunter outspeeds the Vampire conversion, meaning that if both the Vampire Hunter and the Vampire target the same individual that individual will become a Vampire at the end of the night regardless. The Vampire Hunter does act as a Cop on nights where the Vampire cannot convert, however.
Ok so tl;dr:
- Backup in particular but maybe the Witch Doctor instead should step up and claim so that we can lynch you D1 and remove the Vampire's insurance policy
- Vanillas should keep an open mind about who to win with until someone steps up and locks in. Once they do, town is definitely in a better spot to win. If no one does, imo vanillas should treat both the Vampire Hunter and Vampire as mortal enemies since they are the ones holding us hostage in this game without being able to win.
In terms of behavior ya you can look for changes in behavior but honestly I don't buy much into behavioral bullshit, I wanna see people's opinions on strategy. I'll draw my conclusions of cleanliness from the level of analysis provided into strategic goals for vanillas, not soul reads or w.e the flip.
just because there's only 1 scum and there are power roles in the game we shouldn't lynch? This feels like fishing for towncred to me
and then this comes immediately after
*in response to champ*
this just reinforces my thinking of fishing for towncred since saying this to someone over an EOD1 post which was probably a joke feels off
Lynch Earlio
I've played only one game here man I'm not smart enough to fish
Asek
Banned deucer.
Texas Cloverleaf i forgot to ask and i cbf reading the op now does town lose when there exists more vampires then townies
thunderbum is prob town i don't think he bws as scum d1 and points it out in his first forum game ever
first you said you were too inexperienced to towncred fish in the first place now you say you're too experienced for it to look that obvious
honey i'm adding 2 + 2 here and getting 0
literally the first 2 posts of the game
Backup/doctor claiming making things easier for town does make sense but that's their call
I'm not doing the first Unclesam scenario because I'm in this to try and win against the odds and not to collaborate and break the game
I'm not doing the first Unclesam scenario because I'm in this to try and win against the odds and not to collaborate and break the game
*sweats profusely*
Look this is my first NOC game and I'm kinda just trying to go along with what others are saying. Originally I was under the impression that a random lynch was a bad idea but looking at other's reasons for doing so changed that. No need to quote me out of context.
Stressing me out man
Look this is my first NOC game and I'm kinda just trying to go along with what others are saying. Originally I was under the impression that a random lynch was a bad idea but looking at other's reasons for doing so changed that. No need to quote me out of context.
Stressing me out man
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