Project The PU Viability Ranking Thread

[MiniMizer]

Noctowl from D to C-

-Noctowl is one of the bulkiest defoggers in the PU tier.
-It's Hp and SpD is great, what makes it a usefull special wall. Hypno is also listed in C-, and has almost the same Special bulk as Noctowl. Noctowl has 100 HP/96 SpD, Hypno has 85 HP/115 SpD.
-Noctowl has recovery in roost. If I take Hypno as example again, Hypno uses wish to recover.
-Noctowl has acces to whirlwind what makes him a decent Phrazer.
-Noctowl has Insomnia to prevent sleep, and Tinted Lens for more offensive ones.
-Noctowl has bad attack stats, but has acces to Night Shade.
-Noctowl can run toxic/flame orb + Psycho Shift.

Noctowl is not a great poke in the tier, but it has walling potentials. It needs support, but it can stand it's own.
Noctowl is a usefull wall, and that's why it has to be in C-.

 

[Aurorusite]

Dragonair from C to B-

- Eviolite makes it very bulky, combined with Marvel Scale when asleep, its hard to take down
- Dragon Dance to boost its lowish atk and spe suddendly to deadly levels
- Outrage/DD/Resttalk is just monstrous. Its hard to stop after it gets several boosts
- Outrage, when selected by Sleep Talk, you arent LOCKED to it, meaning no confusion
- While bulky Resttalk DD is easily the best set, has good movepool with interesting moves (Extreme Speed, for example)
- Has also Shed Skin to avoid status

Sure, its walled by Fairies, but there arent many of those bar Togetic and Mr Mime, and you can easily counter them by just pairing them with some kind of steel type or anything that walls fairies. its also luck based a bit, but damn, it can be monster if you lack fairies and really a threat.

And maybe this sounds bit biased, but honestly, i feel that Aurorus should me moved up even further:

Aurorus from A- to A

- Even though typing is horrendous, its very good mon imo in this metagame: stats are pretty monstrous, though with this typing its questionable.
- Incredibly versatile: lead, special attacker, rock polish sweeper, physical attacker, tank etc.
- Hyper voice + refrigerate hits very hard
- Rock Polish + Weakness Policy is scary: as bullet- & mach punch is not that common in PU and aurorus has enough bulk to take most SE attacks that are not steel and fighting types, after boost from RP and WP, its almost unstoppable
- good physical movepool too, and excellent support movepool
- fastest stealth rock user, this alone makes it good
- great support movepool

 

[Anty]

Noctowl from D to C-

-Noctowl is one of the bulkiest defoggers in the PU tier.
-It's Hp and SpD is great, what makes it a usefull special wall. Hypno is also listed in C-, and has almost the same Special bulk as Noctowl. Noctowl has 100 HP/96 SpD, Hypno has 85 HP/115 SpD.
-Noctowl has recovery in roost. If I take Hypno as example again, Hypno uses wish to recover.
-Noctowl has acces to whirlwind what makes him a decent Phrazer.
-Noctowl has Insomnia to prevent sleep, and Tinted Lens for more offensive ones.
-Noctowl has bad attack stats, but has acces to Night Shade.
-Noctowl can run toxic/flame orb + Psycho Shift.

Noctowl is not a great poke in the tier, but it has walling potentials. It needs support, but it can stand it's own.
Noctowl is a usefull wall, and that's why it has to be in C-.

Its defensive capabilities are limmited by its defensive typing, being weak to electric, ice and rock, which are all common types (being weak to stealth rocks is horrible in this meta). Also it doesnt have many resistances, only to bug and grass. The former isnt very common, whilst the latter often run coverage like hp ice and hp rock that can hit it. Also it recieves bug competition from other spdef walls like Lickilicky, who supports the team whilst not having a horrid stealth rock weakness, and other defogers, like Pelipper, who has a better typing, and Prinpulp who doesnt have a stealth rock weakness. Noctowl is fine where it is.

Dragonair from C to B-

- Eviolite makes it very bulky, combined with Marvel Scale when asleep, its hard to take down
- Dragon Dance to boost its lowish atk and spe suddendly to deadly levels
- Outrage/DD/Resttalk is just monstrous. Its hard to stop after it gets several boosts
- Outrage, when selected by Sleep Talk, you arent LOCKED to it, meaning no confusion
- While bulky Resttalk DD is easily the best set, has good movepool with interesting moves (Extreme Speed, for example)
- Has also Shed Skin to avoid status

Sure, its walled by Fairies, but there arent many of those bar Togetic and Mr Mime, and you can easily counter them by just pairing them with some kind of steel type or anything that walls fairies. its also luck based a bit, but damn, it can be monster if you lack fairies and really a threat.

You are really underestimating how bad being walled by fairies is, as it effectively means that if the opponent does have a fairy type (or even steel for that matter) then dragonair is useless for the game (the opponent will keep their fairy around). PAiring it with a steel type is harder than it seems, as Klang performs the same role as dragonair; you wouldnt put them on the same team, bastiodon only fits in stall and doesnt beat fairies so you are left with metang, increasing your knock off weakness. Fairy types can also do a lot on free switchins, mr mime can sub or nasty plot, togetic can get a free defog or nasty plot and clefairy can also set up but with calm mind. It isnt just fairy types who beat it; steels wall it well and any defensive poke can live several hits, especcially avalugg, who is amazing in this meta. Fraxure also gives it competition as a dragon dance user, but it can get through fairies and avalugg with poison jab/iron tail/low kick. Lastly, outrage being your only move is really hard to work with, as hitting yourself in confusion can really screw dragonair over. I cant see this going up to c+, definetely not to b-

 

[Magnemite]

Speaking of C+, I actually think it's a bit inflated now. C+ is what I consider the borderline for being relevant or not, so there are a few things I think are a bit out of place there.

Nominating Dwebble, Glaceon, and Wartortle from C+ to C

Dwebble does get SR + Spikes unlike any other hazard lead in the tier, but unlike Whirlipede it is too slow to be good. Common Taunt users outspeed it, it only gets SR up against something faster that can 2HKO it (read: most offensive Pokemon), and it's setup bait if it doesn't run Red Card. Dwebble isn't awful, but unless Custap is released it isn't very relevant.

Glaceon has a decent niche on hail, but hail isn't very good and it's really outclassed by the many good special Ice-types in PU, including Aurorus, Regice, Rotom-F, and even Articuno as they are all threatening to offense as they can boost their speed, run scarf effectively, and/or set up Stealth Rock reliably, none of which Glaceon can do.

With Garbodor out of the tier, there isn't much of a reason to use Wartortle anymore. It's so ridiculously passive and useless outside of removing hazards that there's not much of a reason to use it over any other hazard remover anymore.


Nominating Leavanny from C+ to B and Kricketune from B+ to B-

Leavanny is honestly better than Kricketune in this metagame. Kricketune loses to the very common Taunt Misdreavus, which in and of itself is huge, but it also loses to Taunt Barbaracle which didn't exist before. Meanwhile, Leavanny has a good Speed tier, Magic Coat to somewhat mitigate the lack of Taunt, and can use Knock Off now. It also has STAB Leaf Storm to hit decently hard as well. Basically, the metagame has adapted around Kricketune but not at all adapted around Leavanny.

 

[MiniMizer]

Its defensive capabilities are limmited by its defensive typing, being weak to electric, ice and rock, which are all common types (being weak to stealth rocks is horrible in this meta). Also it doesnt have many resistances, only to bug and grass. The former isnt very common, whilst the latter often run coverage like hp ice and hp rock that can hit it. Also it recieves bug competition from other spdef walls like Lickilicky, who supports the team whilst not having a horrid stealth rock weakness, and other defogers, like Pelipper, who has a better typing, and Prinpulp who doesnt have a stealth rock weakness. Noctowl is fine where it is.

It's a fact that stealth rocks are horrible in PU. But this is a ranking list. If you want to rate pokes by sr weakness then this list would be totally different. Scyther is 4 times weak as example, and really usefull. SR is a big treath, but not a way to rate pokes.
He is weak to common types, but these types are also easy to counter in PU. Noctowl as Special wall and Poliwrath as physical wall can cover a lot together. PU has also a lot of bulky grass types, to cover electric weakness.
Furthermore, is is resistant to bug and grass, but also immune to ghost and ground. As I said earlier in my post, Noctowl isn't the best poke in this tier. But with the right team support, he walls a lot. Also, all the defoggers you mentioned, aren't Phrazers. The combination of a special phrazer and a physical phrazer (like Circle throw Poliw) is very usefull in this tier. Noctowl is underrated, and has more potential then you would expect. That's why it has to be one class higher, in C-.

 

[Magnemite]

It's a fact that stealth rocks are horrible in PU. But this is a ranking list. If you want to rate pokes by sr weakness then this list would be totally different. Scyther is 4 times weak as example, and really usefull. SR is a big treath, but not a way to rate pokes.
He is weak to common types, but these types are also easy to counter in PU. Noctowl as Special wall and Poliwrath as physical wall can cover a lot together. PU has also a lot of bulky grass types, to cover electric weakness.
Furthermore, is is resistant to bug and grass, but also immune to ghost and ground. As I said earlier in my post, Noctowl isn't the best poke in this tier. But with the right team support, he walls a lot. Also, all the defoggers you mentioned, aren't Phrazers. The combination of a special phrazer and a physical phrazer (like Circle throw Poliw) is very usefull in this tier. Noctowl is underrated, and has more potential then you would expect. That's why it has to be one class higher, in C-.

What do you mean SR is bad in PU? SR is basically a necessity on a competitive team in pretty much every tier, and PU is no exception, especially since offensive teams in PU have a whopping one viable option to remove it. Scyther being weak to Stealth Rock is different because it usually has something to remove Stealth Rock for it on its team, while Noctowl's weakness to it is a bigger deal because it has to take SR damage in order to remove it. Also, unlike basically every other hazard remover in PU, Noctowl lacks STAB Scald to beat most of the SR setters in PU, instead being hit super effectively by the STAB moves of Golem and Aurorus without any way to hit them back. Anty's point was that Noctowl's weaknesses matter a lot because it already faces competition with other hazard removers in PU that have better typings. That said, I haven't really used or seen Noctowl, so it might be a bit better than D, but I doubt it for these reasons and what Anty said.

 

[gasquakee]

Nominating Persain for E rank.

Purugly>Persain. Purugly even has Defiant over it. Fake out, Return, U-turn, Taunt, Last Resort, and Knock off are all great moves shared by these two. The sad thing is Purugly just uses them better not to mention it also gets Sucker Punch over Persian.

 

[MiniMizer]

What do you mean SR is bad in PU? SR is basically a necessity on a competitive team in pretty much every tier, and PU is no exception, especially since offensive teams in PU have a whopping one viable option to remove it. Scyther being weak to Stealth Rock is different because it usually has something to remove Stealth Rock for it on its team, while Noctowl's weakness to it is a bigger deal because it has to take SR damage in order to remove it. Also, unlike basically every other hazard remover in PU, Noctowl lacks STAB Scald to beat most of the SR setters in PU, instead being hit super effectively by the STAB moves of Golem and Aurorus without any way to hit them back. Anty's point was that Noctowl's weaknesses matter a lot because it already faces competition with other hazard removers in PU that have better typings. That said, I haven't really used or seen Noctowl, so it might be a bit better than D, but I doubt it for these reasons and what Anty said.

I meant with 'SR are horrible in PU' that those are really usefull. A lot of pokes hate the SR, they find them horrible. I meant it the opposite way, my excuses for the confusion.
Noctowl lacks with a good stab move, air slash/hyper voice ar the only 'good' ones. But as I said before, Night Shade counters that problem really well. Good counters to Noctowl are most of the time walled by water or fighting types. Noctowl needs type coverage from it's team, but when he has it, he can stand it's own. Noctowl is also one of the few usefull PU special walls (if you don't count NFE's) that has a directly recovering (rest or pain split aren't included) move. Lickylicky as example, needs protect to recover from wish. Meganium, Keckleon and Articuno are other pokes that has this ability.
So Noctowl has it's flaws, but it is usefull enough to put it at least in C-. When you knocked out you're opponents psychical attackers with a alive Noctowl, he walls him. I ran into situations like this before with him, where he was able to stall the opponent out of his own. Roosting, Toxic, Air Slash flinches and/or Night Shade can stall for days at that point.

Nominating Persain for E rank.

Purugly>Persain. Purugly even has Defiant over it. Fake out, Return, U-turn, Taunt, Last Resort, and Knock off are all great moves shared by these two. The sad thing is Purugly just uses them better not to mention it also gets Sucker Punch over Persian.

I agree with you, but I think that he is in D because he outspeeds Serperior, and ties with Sneasel. Also, how stupid it sound: Nastly Plot Technician Persian can hit hard with life orb. But I agree with the fact that Purugly outclasses him by almost anything.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

another problem with Noctowl is that it is outclassed by Pokemon like Togetic and Vullaby, both of which have similar/better bulk but a much better typing allowing them to wall more stuff. Togetic can take care of Fighting-types all day and has enough bulk to take a lot of physical/special hits, while Vullaby is able to handle Psychic-types easily. The former has useful support moves as well such as Baton Pass and Heal Bell, while the latter also has Foul Play for consistent damage and can phaze. The only thing Noctowl has over Vullaby is probably the resistance to Bug, but Bug STAB so rare that it's a) not worth it b) better done by something else anyway.

Unless you think Magic Coat + Bug resistance is amazing enough to be ranked C-, I think Noctowl deserves to stay where it is.

 

[Anty]

Firstly remember to update the op with removal of mantine/mega camel/camel/glalie. Now time for some nominations of my own:

to A. Regice is an amazing late game sweeper in this meta, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam and Focus Blast coverage hits the whole meta neutrally, and many super effective. Its decent Spatk means that the whole tier is 2HKOd (sans random AV mons), meaning that it needs little support in waring the opposing team down (which effectively means just play it late game). It also has many set up opportunities as it has an amazing special defence, allowing it to set up on the majority of special attackers (basically on all but fire types).

to B. Now that Garbodor has gone, hazard offense has become a lot harder and a lot worse, which is purugly's only playstyle. Lead Taunt users and other ways to stop suicide leads have also shot up, making not only the playstyle worse, but also less need to defog. Another huge stop to Purugly is avalugg; this is now on pretty much every other team, which firstly walls Purugly, making it useless, and secondly, isnt used on a team with a defoger, making it even more useless. Purugly is just too niche to belong in such a high rank, i can see it dropping even further, but its fine being the same rank of what leavanny should be (look at mag's post).

to b-/c+. Sticky webs is not what it used to be. Due to the increased amounts of hazard leads, every one i prepared for sticky web; spinners/defogers are vital for teams. Kircketune has become a benchmark, meaning everyone is trying to otuspeed and taunt it, whilst Barbaracle, new and very good suicide lead, naturally outspeeds and can taunt it.
This also means leavanny is better, as although it lacks taunt, it is faster than stuff like barbaracle and misdreavus, and still does a good job as deterring opposing hazards with magic coat.

to b/b- (bascially above kricketune, still low as the playstyle sucks).

to b. This has had a recent surge of usage for a good reason. Its good bulk and access to sleep powder allows it to easily set up. Base 110 STAB Acrobatics at +2 is very strong, despite its bad attack, and is backed up by STAB seed bomb, providing good neutral coverage. It also has the ability to switch in and out, thanks to sleep powder, allowing another poke to come in for (usually) free. Its high speed is what makes it so effective, beating pokes like scyther and ninetales, and speed tying with tauros and raichu. It can also provide support for a sun team, a set of sleep powder/sunnyday/memento/encore or whatever, is surprisingly effective and giving its team mate a free set up oppurtunity.

Lastly, didnt we reach a conclusion about making hippo and stoutland the same rank? It seemed like most people agreed, i personally think that they should both be b+, as although there are less spikes, offensive playstyles are becoming more popular, which stoutland easily beats.

 

[Grim]

to S.
Not sure if you're even going to bother because it's broken as fuck and getting banned or moving up by usage, but obviously this broken shit should go to S. It hits ridiculously hard while sitting in a good speed tier and having good bulk that let's it live all priority. Life Orb set is easily the most common, but Specs and even Scarf (yes you heard me right, scarf is actually legit speaking from experience) sets are viable too and amazingly hard to stop. It does have some nice checks in Bouffalant and things like Scarf Scyther and Sneasel, but there is literally no reason to not use this thing as it straight up 6-0's teams unprepared for it (with which I mean a team that does not have at least two checks)

to B-.
Having used Zebstrika a lot, I believe Zebstrika is way better than the other pokemon in C+. It faces competition from Raichu, but it's not like Raichu directly outclasses it. The higher speed Zebstrika has is actually very significant, because a lot of threats in PU outspeed Raichu but are outspeeded by Zebstrika. Overheat is also pretty nice to hit Grass-types very hard, and Sap Sipper is also useful now that Serperior dominates PU. I think B- would be fine for it.

I know this is not that important, but maybe Pikachu should also be on the list again. Since the costume Pika's can't have priority, I feel like regular Pikachu is just better again, because Pikachu's mediocre speed together with its horrible bulk makes not being able to use Extremespeed or even (lol) Fake Out a really bad thing.

 

[Aurorusite]

to S.
Not sure if you're even going to bother because it's broken as fuck and getting banned or moving up by usage, but obviously this broken shit should go to S. It hits ridiculously hard while sitting in a good speed tier and having good bulk that let's it live all priority. Life Orb set is easily the most common, but Specs and even Scarf (yes you heard me right, scarf is actually legit speaking from experience) sets are viable too and amazingly hard to stop. It does have some nice checks in Bouffalant and things like Scarf Scyther and Sneasel's Ice Shard if at lowish health, but there is literally no reason to not use this thing as it straight up 6-0's teams unprepared for it (with which I mean a team that does not have at least two checks)

to B-.
Having used Zebstrika a lot, I believe Zebstrika is way better than the other pokemon in C+. It faces competition from Raichu, but it's not like Raichu directly outclasses it. The higher speed Zebstrika has is actually very significant, because a lot of threats in PU outspeed Raichu but are outspeeded by Zebstrika. Overheat is also pretty nice to hit Grass-types very hard, and Sap Sipper is also useful now that Serperior dominates PU. I think B- would be fine for it.

I know this is not that important, but maybe Pikachu should also be on the list again. Since the costume Pika's can't have priority, I feel like regular Pikachu is just better again, because Pikachu's mediocre speed together with its horrible bulk makes not being able to use Extremespeed or even (lol) Fake Out a really bad thing.

Honestly, Serperior is obviously gonna be banned anyway soon. We are getting Contrary in few days (Japan already has one), so there is good chance that it will get neat rise to NU or even RU.

 

[Grim]

Honestly, Serperior is obviously gonna be banned anyway soon. We are getting Contrary in few days (Japan already has one), so there is good chance that it will get neat rise to NU or even RU.

Even if it's going to be banned it is part of PU at the moment, and should thus in my opinion be ranked correctly. That is up to Magnemite and TRC though.

Also it will probably go higher than that, it has been proven to be effective in OU with minor support.

 

[MZ]

Grumpig from c+ to b-
Grumpig is an often overlooked choice for a specially defensive mon. Unlike Lickilicky it isn't weak to things like sub/sd bouffalant and sub/nasty Ninetales due to the combo of whirlwind and thunder wave. 90 special attack is quite useable for a wall, and thick fat makes it the most reliable regice counter in the tier, along with stopping aurorus and Ninetales nicely. It just fits on a lot of balanced teams better than Lickilicky by not being so passive, I'd even consider moving it to B.

Monferno from C to B
Same reason as Leavanny. Monferno is faster than all conventional taunt users (other than missy), allowing it to beat lead barbaracle to the taunt. Unlike Barbaracle though, it also has a lot of options for the last two moveslots, including overheat which hits quite hard when in blaze, endeavor, vacuum wave/Mach punch, plenty of coverage moves if you're particularly weak to something, and even flare blitz to kill yourself at 1% to stop a spin. A blaze overheat is also stronger than a stone edge from barbaracle, although mobile prevents me from posting the calc.

 

[TheMagikarpOne]

Firstly remember to update the op with removal of mantine/mega camel/camel/glalie. Now time for some nominations of my own:

to A. Regice is an amazing late game sweeper in this meta, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam and Focus Blast coverage hits the whole meta neutrally, and many super effective. Its decent Spatk means that the whole tier is 2HKOd (sans random AV mons), meaning that it needs little support in waring the opposing team down (which effectively means just play it late game). It also has many set up opportunities as it has an amazing special defence, allowing it to set up on the majority of special attackers (basically on all but fire types).

Regice cant touch shedninja :P

 

[Bug Catcher Will]

Regice cant touch shedninja :P

Stealth Rock, Spikes, Toxic, Will-o-wisp, any dark, ghost, rock, fire, or flying move, Mold Breaker, Sandstorm, Hail, a bad breeze, Hellen Keller.

Just because Shedinja can wall Regice doesn't mean it's good........ :/

 

[TheMagikarpOne]

Stealth Rock, Spikes, Toxic, Will-o-wisp, any dark, ghost, rock, fire, or flying move, Mold Breaker, Sandstorm, Hail, a bad breeze, Hellen Keller.

Just because Shedinja can wall Regice doesn't mean it's good........ :/

ik just pointing that out :P
also shedninja isnt that bad really. I think it deserves c- because of its ability to wall many strong pokemon (like poliwrath and serperior and to a lesser extent most Raichu)

 

[About 7 Kidz]

ik just pointing that out :P
also shedninja isnt that bad really. I think it deserves c- because of its ability to wall many strong pokemon (like poliwrath and serperior and to a lesser extent most Raichu)

In no way does it wall Serperior.. They ALL run HP fire or rock.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

imo Serperior should run HP Ice since it hits every relevant target harder without lowering the Speed IVs barring relatively irrelevant Steel-types. Either way, Shedinja is pretty bad because there are limited options for hazard removal in PU. Our spinners all suck at beating spinblockers so you're pretty much forced to run something like Prinplup + Natu just to support a pivot which does not seem very C- to me. Shedinja is also irrelevant when we talk about checks and counters because entry hazards (SR) are not difficult to keep up.

 

[About 7 Kidz]

I would agree with you most of the time. However the only reason i run HP Fire over ice is Articuno in which HP Fire does 30% more damage and kills after leaf storm if Sub Roost Articuno..

 

[Magnemite]

gifs always make your argument more valid

I'm a bit unsure of this myself, but I might as well nominate it now to promote discussion on it.

Nominating Ninetales to S rank.

Ninetales is ridiculously effective in the current metagame. Ninetales has gotten a bit better recently, since Garbodor leaving meant that it no longer had to worry about Toxic Spikes as much and Serperior leaving means that it has one less thing that can outspeed it and pick it off. The main reason I think Ninetales should be S rank is that basically every team is weak to it. Its Speed, power, and coverage make it nigh-impossible for offensive teams to switch into, while Ninetales itself has switch-in opportunities against common Pokemon such as Tangela, Roselia, defensive Misdreavus, Gourgeist-XL, and Avalugg. Ninetales easily clean sweeps slower teams without Lickilicky, Grumpig, or Munchlax, and it is similarly effective against offense because basically nothing can switch into it, it is usually only outsped by one or two Pokemon on any given offensive team. Its amazing coverage means that normal Fire checks such as Poliwrath, Carracosta, and Golem fail to check it even at almost full health. The only issues that might hold it back from being S rank are its ease of being worn down and the fact that scarfers, Tauros, and Sneasel are relatively common and can revenge kill it, but Ninetales itself can actually pressure most Stealth Rock users really well thanks to Energy Ball, so it can even mitigate its Stealth Rock weakness itself some of the time. Basically, just about every team is weak to Ninetales, and even when they aren't outright weak to it or have something that can revenge it, Ninetales is still capable of putting a lot of pressure on its main answers, which leads me to believe that it is possibly worthy of S rank.

 

[ManOfMany]

Krokorok from unranked to C
I have used Krok in many battles, and it is an effective lead. It's main job is to taunt the opposing pokemon from setting stealth rock, set up stealth rock itself, and hit hard with earthquake or remove the opponent's item with knock off. This is a role that can be done by other pokemon (most notably barbaracle), but krokorok is more effective in a lot of situations because of it's neutrality to earthquake (with eviolite + intimidate it actually has fairly good bulk, can survive two golem EQs, and is not OHKOed by Sneasel after intimidate while OHKOing back with earthquake), its access to knock off to annoy switch ins, and its dark-ground coverage that gives it perfect type coverage. It also outspeeds other taunt leads like Kricketune and Barbaracle if you want to invest in speed.
Unforunately that's the only set I've tried out, I have yet to try out the Scarf Moxie set that is the bane of FU, but I have a feeling that it's pretty bad.

from B+ to A-
Huntail is incredibly threatening and versatile. It has access to the combination of shell smash and sucker punch, which lets it bypass its scarfed checks. (+2 white herb sucker punch is guaranteed OHKO on Raichu, and +2 life orb sucker punch OHKOs every other common scarfed user after stealth rock). It has baton pass to bypass its defensive counters and let another physical OR special sweeper destroy your opponent's team. You may think Poliwrath's circle throw or Avalugg's roar are problems, but it isn't so hard keeping a ghost type reciever or a pokemon with soundproof (mime, bouff, electrode, etc). Huntail can also run either physical special, or mixed, thanks to both its physical and special stats being high, unlike Barbaracle. A +2 surf and +2 ice beam sweeps even better than a +2 waterfall, and when your opponent brings out the special wall, you can just baton pass to an opponent of your choice. (You can also sub on Lickilicky's dragon tail if you run sub). It's not just limited to smashpass either- it can pass coils too, which is somewhat effective if you can pass to a pokemon with priority, such as kecleon. The threat of a +1 sucker punch also prevents revenge killers from ruining its attempts to coil.

Here's a replay which shows both Krok and Huntail at their best
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-201951618

 

[trc]

~update time~

Mega Camerupt removed from A+
Serperior removed from A+
Glalie removed from B+
Mantine removed from B+
Camerupt removed from B
Wobbuffet added to E
Misdreavus from A to A+
Roselia from A to A+
Purugly from A- to B+
Regice from A- to A
Kricketune from B+ to B-
Swanna from B to B+
Basculin from B- to B
Dwebble from C+ to C
Grumpig from C+ to B-
Jumpluff from C+ to B-
Leavanny from C+ to B
Glaceon from C+ to C
Wartortle from C+ to C
Monferno from C to C+
Whirlipede from C- to B-
Corsola from D to E
Swalot from E to C-

Thanks for all the discussion so far guys!

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Ok here's some stuff that I think:

Simipour B+ --> A-

Nasty Plot Simipour is a great lategame sweeper. Unlike a lot of power-boosting pokemon, Simipour outspeeds a lot of common Scarfers, including Adamant Tauros, Haunter, and Rotom-F. Simipour's high initial Speed means it is able to set up Substitute + Salac relatively easily and threaten foes even midgame, beating threats like Piloswine and Ninetales. Simipour also has versatility to it as it is able to run a Scarf set to provide a team with a fast Scarfer able to revenge kill the likes of Carracosta, or a Life Orb all out attacking set to maximize its coverage. It can even go mixed w/ Low Kick to beat Licky and Regice. Deserves an A- easily.

Ninetales A+ --> A+ (no change)

I can definitely see why Magnemite wants it S and tbh I'm not exactly sure on this myself either. Ninetales is definitely a threat but I don't think it is deserving of S. Its flaws include being revenged easily by faster pokemon present on every team, as well as residual damage acting on it fast with SR and/or Life Orb. It comes close but I don't think it has the same amazingness of Tauros and Poliwrath and cannot be chucked onto teams as easily. Again I'm not 100% on this either so i could be swayed either way but I don't see it as S currently.

Klang B- --> C+

Klang sounds cool and all but it kinda needs a lot of support to be able to sweep, hence deserving a rank in C. Klang's problem is that there are too many pokemon that can take a boosted hit and retaliate. Poliwrath is everywhere and it's a hard stop to Klang, as is several other threats like Throh, Ninetales, Raichu, etc. It has trouble setting up against offensive teams that keep hammering at it and doesn't have the Speed after a boost. Gear Grind also has poor coverage to boot.

Butterfree C --> C+

I wasn't sure why Butterfree was moved down so I gave it a spin. As a Speed-boosting setup sweeper Butterfree actually isn't that bad. It can't outrun Scarfers but it still beats a lot of fast pokemon after a boost. It actually hits decently hard at +1 w/ LO and Tinted Lens ensures that only bulky special walls or Togetic are able to comfortably take its hits. For example, Ninetales actually gets OHKOed after Stealth Rock by Modest LO Bug Buzz at +1. Sleep Powder enables it to set up a Quiver Dance easily against slower pokemon allowing it to damage stuff vs offensive teams. Tinted Lens also means it can run Substitute in its last moveslot potentially avoiding revenge killing if it happens to get up one for free. It requires a lot of team support, yes, and it was a chore to build around it which is why it's confined to C but it definitely deserves C+ imo.

Stantler D --> E

what does this even do? Sawsbuck nearly 100% outclasses this, as does Stoutland, as does Tauros, as does Bouffalant. Hypnosis probably isn't a good enough niche for D rank :(

 

[Anty]

Stantler D --> E

what does this even do? Sawsbuck nearly 100% outclasses this, as does Stoutland, as does Tauros, as does Bouffalant. Hypnosis probably isn't a good enough niche for D rank :(

Nah stantler has a fun little niche:
Stantler @ Life Orb
Ability: Sap Sipper
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Return

252 SpA Life Orb Stantler Shadow Ball vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Misdreavus: 133-156 (47.5 - 55.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Stantler Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 192-229 (47.5 - 56.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Stantler Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Poliwrath: 208-247 (54.1 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

The set is pretty much a joke, but it can bait these in. The main reason to use this>giraffe is that this can bait more stuff in.
I still dont mind if it goes down, but this is fun support for pokes like flareon who like certain mons gone. Also look at half of D lol