Metagame Terastallization Tiering Discussion [ UPDATE POST #1293]

[Da1mon!]

Okay so, before I start, forgive me if my English isn't perfect, it's not my native language. Also, I wanna mention that what I'm gonna say is mostly based on what I've experienced and what I think, not much on actual facts. I'm just here to give my opinion.

Now that this is said, the first thing I wanna say about Terastallize is that its complete ban seems to me like the worst option, as its use and/or power may be regulated. This mechanic is indeed very powerful, you can change the whole game just because of one click at some moment, but it definitely ain't stupidly overpowered as Dynamax was. Don't get me wrong, I haven't come here to talk again about the core mechanic from the previous gen, I'm just quickly comparing those two since Terastallize might be the second core mechanic to get banned. But talking from experience, it's been quite frustrating to go from one metagame to another only 'cause I wanted to have fun with the core mechanic of the gen (went from Over Used to ND AG, going through ND OU and Ubers).
Now, if I were to talk about the alternative options, I'd say that adding Tera type to the team preview would seem like the best option so far, as it would let us analysis what may be more dangerous that it'd seem to be. I also think it could actually make games more interesting somehow, since we would have to consider that the opponent could Terastallize, knowing what type it'd be, so we'd have to think more about the possibilities before making a decision.
Banning Terastallize for some Pokemon seems like the worst of these 4 alternative options, as it would probably just force us to play some Pokemon from lower tiers, 'til they're seen as too powerful with this mechanic. I think this option may end up with a complete ban.
Banning Tera Blast might be a good option, but first off, Pokemon using Terastallize as a defensive tool wouldn't be affected, and second off, not every offensive Pokemon actually needs Tera Blast (Sylveon would just Terastallize to hit super hard with Hyper Voice for example).
And the fourth option, which is to limit Terastallize to already existent types of the Pokemon, seems in my opinion like the second best option, as it would have a high offensive potential as well as a defensive use, even though the defensive part wouldn't be as strong as it currently is.

Anyways, I really hope this ain't gonna result in a complete ban once again, and I assume I ain't the only one to have been frustrated due to the ban of a core mechanic.

 

[ThitOneGuy]

I actually originally included in my post that most magnezones are scarfed, but I took that out since I figured it would be obvious. Either way, in all practical situations magnezone traps and kills corviknight unless it runs shed shell as an item.

Terastalizing your Corv out of the situation comes with unique downsides, like not being able to Tera anything else, and possibly lose because of pulling the trigger at the wrong time.

 

[lordkira]

It looks like many players are starting to adapt to the meta with tera, which I am with difficulty. While I am still unsure what my exact preference is in regards to tera meta, I know I'd like to keep it in some form in the future if the meta becomes balanced with the presence of terastlization. I am, for one thing, glad we are seemingly getting a suspect test (hopefully) and not an immediate ban by the council since I'd love to experiment with this new feature until the verdict.

 

[Vastus]

I don't take the other 5 mons into account for the sake of simplicity...

That creates a very disingenous argument that is pure theorymonning and doesn't reflect what happens in game at all. And honestly, if you somehow get to a situation where it's 1v1 and Tera hasn't been used yet and you auto-lose to it, then you misplayed earlier to get yourself in that position.

... I could, but the post would be much longer and only prove the same point: too much guesswork involved in playing around tera.

It does not, in fact it proves the opposite. By not taking into account the reality that there's more of a team, you take away the possibility of safe midground plays like switching to a different check, thus overplaying the impact of terastallizing in deciding a game.

 

[sh0shin]

Magnezone is faster, so it will hit you with thunderbolt or volt switch and kill you. Terra ground is the only reliable way to survive that situation.

you can just run Shed Shell if magnezone ever becomes a meta threat

 

[Rothj]

Magnezone isn't really an issue in the first place, since it's biggest draw is trapping steels. The only largely used steel in ou that is can trap is Corv, the other steels it can trap are more niche, so Magnezone isn't popular enough for it to be a big issue for Corv.

Sure, but since I DO run corviknight, I find it very valuable to have tera ground on it for when I do rarely come across a magnezone. You would never preemptively tera ground. You would only do it in a situation where it would immediately kill you and you would lose the game. It's not like you would want to do it, and there is a huge opportunity cost to using your tera. But it can easily prevent you from losing the game if magnezone tries to trap your corviknight.

 

[Shaymin Sky]

you can just run Shed Shell if magnezone ever becomes a meta threat

having a worthless item for like 93% of games and even then sometimes not needed to use the shed shell in the games where zone is used, or the turns after zone is dead and u still have shed shell, I can go on and on...its overall not gonna be worth it on such a vital defensive util mon.

 

[sh0shin]

having a worthless item for like 93% of games and even then sometimes not needed to use the shed shell in the games where zone is used, or the turns after zone is dead and u still have shed shell, I can go on and on...its overall not gonna be worth it on such a vital defensive util mon.

thats why i said if it becomes meta

 

[ThitOneGuy]

having a worthless item for like 93% of games and even then sometimes not needed to use the shed shell in the games where zone is used, or the turns after zone is dead and u still have shed shell, I can go on and on...its overall not gonna be worth it on such a vital defensive util mon.

It's less worth it to Terastalize at the wrong time.

 

[Shaymin Sky]

thats why i said if it becomes meta

if zone becomes meta its still gonna be sitting at like what 6% usage or something like that lol, the post I made still stands... 93-94%

 

[Srn]

Pretty sure roaring moon wins this situation everytime with tera steel crunch twice/thrice so long as its eboosted or LO depending on mystical fire roll (then again u can argue crunch defense drop too) since you'll survive mystical fire anyways on bulky hatt ev's since bulky hatt runs dkiss cm...sooooo I am not sure why you used this example when it doesnt work?

252 Atk Energy Boost Roaring Moon Crunch vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Hatterene: 140-165 (44 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Roaring Moon: 140-166 (39.8 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

You tera steel, crunch, they mystic, u crunch even if u dont get the roll u live the 2nd mystic, and then u crunch and win...not much of a pain when there's a clear optimal route of play my guy.


The vacuum approach of making a 1v1 last pokemon where both still have tera (you really aren't gonna be seeing no tera use so late to this extent at that) and health is still at full...is not representative imo of what actually happens in a match. Many tera situations there's still mons left, some situations your opponent already tera'd already, or you already used your tera and they havn't, or depending on the moves you revealed or your opponent revealed ect ect. The mechanic works on too vast of a scale to make meaningful representative examples aside from in battle which largely can still be deduced to positioning prior to the tera situation as well as other things. You could use that same example you give and then say ok but what if there is a 2nd Pokémon left on both sides that act as a middle ground to if they tera or don't use tera, because middle grounds are often possible. These last mon haven't used tera situations are not common enough or seen often enough to be representative of why the mechanic could be seen as problematic.

So you changed the sets that I gave you and then claim an optimal route of play after ignoring the additional context I also gave. This example works when you read the post. If Roaring Moon tera steels and crunches, the following can happen:
252 Atk Roaring Moon Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hatterene: 144-171 (45.2 - 53.7%)
252+ SpA Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Roaring Moon: 278-330 (79.2 - 94%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
^Tera fire Hatt+Mystical Fire can OHKO Tera Steel Roaring Moon after rocks.

Just so it's more clear to you, I'll edit my post to say that both pokemon are at 75% health. The point of the post was to demonstrate how many options players have to consider solely due to the timing of when Tera can come out.

Furthermore, I never said that this was a 1v1 last pokemon scenario, just one where tera has not been used by either player yet.

Obviously this scenario cannot represent every other possible situation that can arise when you are playing pokemon. I made it a 1v1 scenario for the sake of simplicity, because when you begin to throw the 2nd pokemon that can act as a middle ground into the mix, then my post grows longer. Either Hatt or Roaring moon can just predict the middle ground and choose not to tera and attack, and now you let your middle ground get chipped and got no information for it. Adding more context also increases the number of options that each player must consider, further proving my point.

That creates a very disingenous argument that is pure theorymonning and doesn't reflect what happens in game at all. And honestly, if you somehow get to a situation where it's 1v1 and Tera hasn't been used yet and you auto-lose to it, then you misplayed earlier to get yourself in that position.

My example was just that, one example of one interaction, used to try and illustrate a larger point. Obviously 1 example cannot reflect the totality of events that can happen in a pokemon game.

It does not, in fact it proves the opposite. By not taking into account the reality that there's more of a team, you take away the possibility of safe midground plays like switching to a different check, thus overplaying the impact of terastallizing in deciding a game.

No, the existence of safe mid ground plays does not prove the opposite because safe midground plays are not some get out of jail card. You are simply delaying what can happen again, and if it does, your midground might not be so healthy.

I don't believe I've overplayed the impact of terastallizing in deciding a game. I've never described it as an auto win button or anything close, and it does take some skill to plan, use, and predict the use of Tera in battle. Again, adding more context also increases the number of options each player must consider and further proves my point.

 

[Rothj]

It's less worth it to Terastalize at the wrong time.

So is your opinion you'd rather your corviknight just die? I mean in a situation where you're 100% trapped and your corv is dead if you don't terra it you'd rather just sac it?

 

[Shaymin Sky]

So you changed the sets that I gave you and then claim an optimal route of play after ignoring the additional context I also gave. This example works when you read the post. If Roaring Moon tera steels and crunches, the following can happen:
252 Atk Roaring Moon Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hatterene: 144-171 (45.2 - 53.7%)
252+ SpA Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Roaring Moon: 278-330 (79.2 - 94%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
^Tera fire Hatt+Mystical Fire can OHKO Tera Steel Roaring Moon after rocks.

Just so it's more clear to you, I'll edit my post to say that both pokemon are at 75% health. The point of the post was to demonstrate how many options players have to consider solely due to the timing of when Tera can come out.

Furthermore, I never said that this was a 1v1 last pokemon scenario, just one where tera has not been used by either player yet.

Obviously this scenario cannot represent every other possible situation that can arise when you are playing pokemon. I made it a 1v1 scenario for the sake of simplicity, because when you begin to throw the 2nd pokemon that can act as a middle ground into the mix, then my post grows longer. Either Hatt or Roaring moon can just predict the middle ground and choose not to tera and attack, and now you let your middle ground get chipped and got no information for it. Adding more context also increases the number of options that each player must consider, further proving my point.



My example was just that, one example of one interaction, used to try and illustrate a larger point. Obviously 1 example cannot reflect the totality of events that can happen in a pokemon game.



No, the existence of safe mid ground plays does not prove the opposite because safe midground plays are not some get out of jail card. You are simply delaying what can happen again, and if it does, your midground might not be so healthy.

I don't believe I've overplayed the impact of terastallizing in deciding a game. I've never described it as an auto win button or anything close, and it does take some skill to plan, use, and predict the use of Tera in battle. Again, adding more context also increases the number of options each player must consider and further proves my point.

Middle grounds bait tera's, can allow for better positioning around a potential tera later on incase you made a mistake on positioning earlier, or can allow for progress regardless if they tera or not (Ex going for moonblast on kingambit instead of cc with iron valiant incase the kingambit tera flyings/ghost). All of that and more is very valid and real counter play. It doesn't delay the inevitable, it can give you leeway or another option later on if they tera'd or not in that given situation if you go for a middleground play. Resetting the situation through a middle ground is not "delaying the inevitable", with the info that the situation can happen in the first place its up to you whether you play well enough positioning wise to stop it from happening or win in that situation later on.

 

[ant4456]

First post back here since Gen 9. After playing a lot of Gen 8 OU and taking a break near the end, I’ve been playing a bunch of Gen 9 since release and would like to share my thoughts on Tera. Originally wasn’t going to make a post but after lurking for a while there’s a few things I’d like to add.
Let me start by saying that I don’t think Tera is broken/uncompetitive. I think we can all agree at this point that Dynamax was a significantly more game-breaking mechanic to the point that there’s no comparison. Tera isn’t an instant power-up button, it’s something that actually requires skill to use. Knowing what Tera type to use in the builder, which mon to Tera in a game, when to Tera that mon, these are things that encourage thinking and careful play. I can’t find the post, but I believe someone earlier made a comparison to held items which I fully agree with. Yes, Tera fundamentally changes a mon and how it plays, but so does an item like Band or AV for example. And similarly to Tera, there’s no way to tell what item a mon is running at preview except by using your knowledge of the meta and the opponent’s team comp. Tera is essentially an extension of the fundamental game that turns simple scenarios into ones that require more thought.

However, it’s worth pointing out that Tera does not create constant 50/50s, as some have claimed. Once both sides have used Tera, less scenarios have to be considered, and at most there will be 2 or 3 pivotal turns during which a matchup is flipped or you play mind games with your opponent over Tera. However, even these are not binary 50/50s. Say my opponent U-turns with Corv into Band Meowscarada against my Garganacl. My opponent suspects I’m Tera Flying, since that’s a common Garganacl Tera type. My opponent can predict this and U-turn, or they can Flower Trick. I have to decide whether to Tera or not. Seems like a 50/50, right? But it’s not, because there are so many other considerations. Are there hazards up? This disincentivises switching out for my opponent-but if he has rocks up, then that makes Tera a less attractive option for me. What’s the long term situation? Do I have another check to Meowscarada? Do I need my Tera for something else? My opponent could also make a mid-ground play-why not click Knock Off?
What I’m trying to illustrate is that no interaction can be viewed in a vacuum. None of these are 50/50s, it’s about making the best play you can based off the information you have. Tera merely adds to this-yes, there’s guesswork, but this has always been a part of the game.

I’d also like to address a couple of other anti-Tera arguments I’ve seen: no Tera does not make offensive mons unwallable, since it gives defensive mons just as many options as offensive ones. The criticism that Tera makes long-term planning harder is one I can sympathise with, but it’s something that will improve as people get more familiar with common Tera types. It’s also the reason I wouldn’t be completely opposed to showing Tera types at preview, although no restriction is still my preferred option.

I decided to actually go back to the Dynamax Suspect thread, and I think the ways that Tera contrasts the worst parts of Dynamax is much larger than some may think.

Honestly, I forgot just how many broken mechanics Dynamax had that Terastilization doesn't. Terastilization essentially changes your Pokemon for an entire match, and with the Adaptability boost still doesn't really match Dynamaxes insaneness.

Dynamax had no real counterplay that is normal, while Terastilization's counterplay is about the same as any other Pokemon. The only part I'd identify as somewhat problematic is the turn it is used, but that can be accounted for still.

Meanwhile Dynamax blocked Taunt, went through Protect, blockedWhirlwind/Similar, doubled your HP, completely negated weight based moves, essentially gave an adaptability boost along with setting your own Weather, and giving free stat buffs and ignore choice locks. It essentially allowed you to Build-A-Endgame, as long as your last Pokemon could be effective and could take one hit, it could Speed boost and go out of control.

Maybe it sounds redundant to bring this all up, but when I see people say this is anything remotely on the scale of Dynamax, please go back and recall the scars of just how bad it was.

I'm not pulling out Thunder Wave/Substitute Mimikyu to try and stall Terastilization.

 

[Srn]

Middle grounds bait tera's, can allow for better positioning around a potential tera later on incase you made a mistake on positioning earlier, or can allow for progress regardless if they tera or not (Ex going for moonblast on kingambit instead of cc with iron valiant incase the kingambit tera flyings/ghost). All of that and more is very valid and real counter play. It doesn't delay the inevitable, it can give you leeway or another option later on if they tera'd or not in that given situation if you go for a middleground play. Resetting the situation through a middle ground is not "delaying the inevitable", with the info that the situation can happen in the first place its up to you whether you play well enough positioning wise to stop it from happening or win in that situation later on.

Slainey do me a favor and just slow down for a second alright.
I agree that resetting the situation through a middle ground is not delaying the inevitable because I did not use those words. I was careful to say the following:

You are simply delaying what can happen again, and if it does, your midground might not be so healthy.

CAN happen again, not WILL. IF it does, not WHEN.
I'm not excusing that middleground is valid and real counter play, I'm only pointing out that it is not the BEST play ALL of the time. It is one of the many options that players must consider, on top of all the other ones I painstakingly showed you.
"It's up to you to win in that situation" yeah bro it always is.

 

[Miight]

Hi, it's my first post here.
I don't think I'm really qualified enough to voice my opinion here as I'm not really that good, but I'll do it anyway (my examples may be wrong however).
Also, I didn't read every page before my post so it's possible that I may repeat things that have already been said.

So, I don't think Terastallizing should be banned, or not yet at least.
It should be, however, restrained because, as many people already said, it is too strong in its current state.
I'm not really sure how to put it into words as english isn't my first language, but it relies on too many random factors (which Pokemon will Terastallize, in which type and when) and restrain teambuilding a lot by making Pokemon that are already good, even stronger, making some of them more unpredictable (Roaring Moon) or just make them hit harder (Tera Ghost Dragapult).

First of all, I think that only one Pokemon per team should be allowed to Terastallize.
This Pokemon would be chosen during the team preview. Once you and your opponent have chosen your Pokemon, the information would be shared to each other.
The team's Tera Types could also be revealed (before selecting the Pokemon for example) so that you can play around it during the game.
Both options have already been talked about it here iirc and it'd also be pretty easy to implement.
The Tera Type thing could be predicted to a certain extent depending on the selected Pokemon, the opponent's team and the usages, so I guess it could be optional ?

Secondly, I'm not sure if it's ever been submitted, but, we could ban Terastallization usage on some Pokemon so that teambuilding is less restrained, that is to say, forbidding the player from Terastallizing that Pokemon.
I'm not really sure how to handle the criterias for banning X or Y Terastallized Pokemon though, and if it's truly doable in the first place.

One of the main issues (if not the main issue) would still be there however : the timing of when Tera comes out.
In any case, I think we should first try to add some clauses/restrictions to Terastallizing, then wait and see how it goes before trying to ban it.
Banning it so soon would be a waste imo, since unlike Dynamax it can be somehow regulated, and to be fair, I enjoy it.

What are your thoughts about this ?

 

[Poirepi]

I haven't read all the comments and I guess what I'm about to say has already been said, but I have a suggestion to make to "balance" the mechanic. What if Terastallization gave only the Pokemon the STAB according to the Tera type ? It would force defensive uses, prevents every sweeper from gaining Adaptibility or insane coverage. There would still be many mind-games, many chances for sweeper to sweep, but many more counterplays.

 

[Yung Dramps]

I haven't read all the comments and I guess what I'm about to say has already been said, but I have a suggestion to make to "balance" the mechanic. What if Terastallization gave only the Pokemon the STAB according to the Tera type ? It would force defensive uses, prevents every sweeper from gaining Adaptibility or insane coverage. There would still be many mind-games, many chances for sweeper to sweep, but many more counterplays.

This is a direct modification of game mechanics impossible on cartridge without hacking. As such, it is completely off the table

 

[ThitOneGuy]

So is your opinion you'd rather your corviknight just die? I mean in a situation where you're 100% trapped and your corv is dead if you don't terra it you'd rather just sac it?

It depends on the team I'm using and the situation as a whole

 

[Poirepi]

This is a direct modification of game mechanics impossible on cartridge without hacking. As such, it is completely off the table

I don't see the issue ; Tera types preview is also impossible on cartridge.

 

[Beaf Cultist]

This point isn't being made enough so I'll just restate it here, maybe spark some discussion. Tera as a mechanic may not be inherently broken. I agree that with time players can and will learn to predict Tera types and even timing (though anyone claiming every or even most mons only have 1-2 optimal Tera types is just straight up wrong). However, people claiming Tera is balanced seem to reach their final conclusion right there, without ever considering the many, many mons broken by Tera. Setting aside the unpredictability, setting aside the difficulty of playing around the mechanic in general, you have to realize that there are a TON of mons that only needed a typing change, or an 80 BP coverage move, or just a little more power on their STABs to be absolutely busted. This isn't a 'Megas are broken in theory but balanced in practice' situation either, because besides only being able to Terastalize once per game, there is literally no drawback (arguments about Rocks chip or Black Sludge aren't valid imo because a well-built Tera mon should never come across those problems). Tera Normal Dragonite and Tera Ground/Grass Volcarona can still hold Boots, Tera Flying Roaring Moon can use Acrobatics more than once, Tera Water Annihilape still gets STAB on Rage Fist. It's a silly mechanic and as fun as it may be, I don't think it has any place in a competitive metagame (or at least not OU. I don't want to ban half of the tier just to keep the generational mechanic around. Separate ladder when?).

 

[ant4456]

This point isn't being made enough so I'll just restate it here, maybe spark some discussion. Tera as a mechanic may not be inherently broken. I agree that with time players can and will learn to predict Tera types and even timing (though anyone claiming every or even most mons only have 1-2 optimal Tera types is just straight up wrong). However, people claiming Tera is balanced seem to reach their final conclusion right there, without ever considering the many, many mons broken by Tera. Setting aside the unpredictability, setting aside the difficulty of playing around the mechanic in general, you have to realize that there are a TON of mons that only needed a typing change, or an 80 BP coverage move, or just a little more power on their STABs to be absolutely busted. This isn't a 'Megas are broken in theory but balanced in practice' situation either, because besides only being able to Terastalize once per game, there is literally no drawback (arguments about Rocks chip or Black Sludge aren't valid imo because a well-built Tera mon should never come across those problems). Tera Normal Dragonite and Tera Ground/Grass Volcarona can still hold Boots, Tera Flying Roaring Moon can use Acrobatics more than once, Tera Water Annihilape still gets STAB on Rage Fist. It's a silly mechanic and as fun as it may be, I don't think it has any place in a competitive metagame (or at least not OU. I don't want to ban half of the tier just to keep the generational mechanic around. Separate ladder when?).

You'd have a great point if Tera wasn't a resource and was activated automatically, but it isn't.

A lot of Pokemon that were most impacted by their type, still might not be worth it because that requires using up your resource. One that can be used in response to specific threats, instead used to change one Pokemon to be better; but that isn't guaranteed to be good either. It's the principal that while essentially every Pokemon can be improved by Terastilization, you can only use it once per game.

I made Avalugg Steel and am comitting to this for my team, now what? It's still limited by the fact that by running this I am now giving up my Terastilization to a Pokemon that is hard to get in, still is very flawed, and if I have to Tera something else I now am essentially 5-6.

You say there are Pokemon that would instantly be broken with a different type, but as of now, we haven't really seen that come into effect. It's mostly already good Pokemon being used, with Terastilization as a possibility, not a given. If HOME/DLC adds these Pokemon, and it's more than just a few, we could theoretically revisit the topic of banning or restricting Terastilization.

I imagine this sort of Terastilization will be better in VGC, where the endgame is always essentially within 6-8 turns and you only have 4 Pokemon, but in singles this is a fairly risky strategy honestly.

Lastly: It'd do good to read a lot of the posts, considering Tera Blast is considered the least broken aspect of Terastilization for people that want to ban it.

 

[plznostep]

Thought I would give my take on this, i don't really want to show any bias towards either side and i want to see how Tera can affect some of the Top Pokemon at the moment in the meta.

Dragapult

Tera on Dragapult is quite diverse in its uses. On one hand, you can finally give something Dragapult has wanted ever since it came out in Gen 8; a good physical ghost stab move in Tera Blast. CB sets have been loving this alongside Dragon Darts. This is an overall healthy addition to Dragapult. Dragapult is also very interested in using Tera Fighting to beat Dark types looking to revenge it such as Kingambit and Tyranitar and hit them hard with Tera Fighting. This part of Tera i would say is unhealthy though. Completely twisting a type match up like this just seems really overpowered and limits counterplay towards this mon. You can try argue that Kingambit could go another typing at the same time to stop this from happening, but how do you know the Dragapult is going to tera that turn, it could just switch out for all you know and now you've just wasted your Tera.

Otherwise, once we end up getting more bulky Fairy types in this tier, Dragapult will be able to hit them super effectively with Tera Steel if it wishes as well.

Chien Pao

Chien Pao really likes having a Pseudo Adaptability on its STABS; especially when they suffer from low base power in the first place.
Here is some calculations to what Chien Pao can do with a Dark Tera

Calcs

Without Tera:
+2 252 Atk Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 132-156 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO

With Tera:
+2 252 Atk Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 175-207 (57.5 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Without Tera:
+2 252 Atk Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 186-219 (46.5 - 54.7%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

With Tera:
+2 252 Atk Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 246-290 (61.5 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Those are some really nice calcs that allow Chien Pao to now 2HKO mon's that it was never able to 2HKO without a Tera Boost. It also loves the boost to its priority Sucker Punch which can do stuff like this;

Sucker Punch Calcs

Without Tera:
+2 252 Atk Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chi-Yu: 130-153 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With Tera:
+2 252 Atk Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chi-Yu: 173-204 (68.9 - 81.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chi-Yu: 173-204 (68.9 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

Without Tera:
+2 252 Atk Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom-Wash: 204-240 (84.6 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With Tera:
+2 252 Atk Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom-Wash: 271-319 (112.4 - 132.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Without Tera:
+2 252 Atk Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meowscarada: 144-170 (49.1 - 58%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO

With Tera:
+2 252 Atk Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meowscarada: 193-227 (65.8 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(all that takes is 3 rounds of SR damage on Meowscarada and you now OHKO with Sucker)

Chien Pao also likes to have Tera Ghost to get by Priority such as Dragonite's Extreme Speed and Mach Punch users such as Breloom. When Pawmot comes out, it will probably like Tera Ghost for them as well

Chi Yu

The Fish strikes again! Chi Yu has some options when it comes to its Tera Typing; Fire for Adaptability boost (especially on Sun Teams), Dark for the same reason, Fighting to hit Tyranitar, and Ghost to avoid Mach Punches from mons like Breloom. That's a lot of options, and you have no idea which one it is.
Here are some calcs for Chi Yu

Chi Yu Calcs

Without Tera:
252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 118-139 (29.2 - 34.4%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

With Tera:
252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 156-185 (38.6 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
(might i remind you Tyranitar has no recovery so it just takes 38.6 to 45% without healing it off)

Without Tera:
252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 113-134 (37.1 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

With Tera:
252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 151-178 (49.6 - 58.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

Without Tera
252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Water Slowking: 136-161 (34.5 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

With Tera
252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Water Slowking: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO

Pretty nice calcs overall for Chi Yu. Nothing else to say really.

Roaring Moon

Roaring Moon is an interesting case. It loves to go Tera Flying to hit Great Tusk with a stab boosted Acrobatics with a Booster Energy boost, but going Tera Steel for Fairies, Tera Dark for Corviknight, or even Tera Dragon for boosted Outrages are fine options of themselves.

Roaring Moon Calcs

Without Tera:
+1 252 Atk Roaring Moon Acrobatics (with booster energy +atk)(110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 274-324 (63.1 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With Tera
+1 252 Atk Roaring Moon Acrobatics (with booster energy +atk) (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 410-486 (94.4 - 111.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

Without Tera
252 Atk Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 276-326 (63.8 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge re

With Tera
252 Atk Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 276-326 (63.8 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Without Tera
+1 252 Atk Roaring Moon Crunch vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 187-221 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

With Tera
+1 252 Atk Roaring Moon Crunch vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 249-294 (62.2 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Without Tera
+1 252 Atk Roaring Moon Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hatterene: 248-294 (77.9 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

With Tera
+1 252 Atk Roaring Moon Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hatterene: 374-440 (117.6 - 138.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Tera really does a lot for Roaring Moon in these little match ups and it probably wouldnt be as good as it is without it, STAB Acrobatics and ability to just smack fairies if it wants to really makes a large difference.

Anyways, that's probably all from me, I just picked some of the mons I thought benefitted offensively with Terastallizing, i can't be bothered to pick out every mon that benefits a lot from Terastallizing like Orthworm, Annihilape, Slowking, etc.

 

[ant4456]

Thought I would give my take on this, i don't really want to show any bias towards either side and i want to see how Tera can affect some of the Top Pokemon at the moment in the meta.

Dragapult

Tera on Dragapult is quite diverse in its uses. On one hand, you can finally give something Dragapult has wanted ever since it came out in Gen 8; a good physical ghost stab move in Tera Blast. CB sets have been loving this alongside Dragon Darts. This is an overall healthy addition to Dragapult. Dragapult is also very interested in using Tera Fighting to beat Dark types looking to revenge it such as Kingambit and Tyranitar and hit them hard with Tera Fighting. This part of Tera i would say is unhealthy though. Completely twisting a type match up like this just seems really overpowered and limits counterplay towards this mon. You can try argue that Kingambit could go another typing at the same time to stop this from happening, but how do you know the Dragapult is going to tera that turn, it could just switch out for all you know and now you've just wasted your Tera.

Otherwise, once we end up getting more bulky Fairy types in this tier, Dragapult will be able to hit them super effectively with Tera Steel if it wishes as well.

Chien Pao

Chien Pao really likes having a Pseudo Adaptability on its STABS; especially when they suffer from low base power in the first place.
Here is some calculations to what Chien Pao can do with a Dark Tera

Calcs

Without Tera:
+2 252 Atk Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 132-156 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO

With Tera:
+2 252 Atk Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 175-207 (57.5 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Without Tera:
+2 252 Atk Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 186-219 (46.5 - 54.7%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

With Tera:
+2 252 Atk Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 246-290 (61.5 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Those are some really nice calcs that allow Chien Pao to now 2HKO mon's that it was never able to 2HKO without a Tera Boost. It also loves the boost to its priority Sucker Punch which can do stuff like this;

Sucker Punch Calcs

Without Tera:
+2 252 Atk Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chi-Yu: 130-153 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With Tera:
+2 252 Atk Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chi-Yu: 173-204 (68.9 - 81.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chi-Yu: 173-204 (68.9 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

Without Tera:
+2 252 Atk Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom-Wash: 204-240 (84.6 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With Tera:
+2 252 Atk Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom-Wash: 271-319 (112.4 - 132.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Without Tera:
+2 252 Atk Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meowscarada: 144-170 (49.1 - 58%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO

With Tera:
+2 252 Atk Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meowscarada: 193-227 (65.8 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(all that takes is 3 rounds of SR damage on Meowscarada and you now OHKO with Sucker)

Chien Pao also likes to have Tera Ghost to get by Priority such as Dragonite's Extreme Speed and Mach Punch users such as Breloom. When Pawmot comes out, it will probably like Tera Ghost for them as well

Chi Yu

The Fish strikes again! Chi Yu has some options when it comes to its Tera Typing; Fire for Adaptability boost (especially on Sun Teams), Dark for the same reason, Fighting to hit Tyranitar, and Ghost to avoid Mach Punches from mons like Breloom. That's a lot of options, and you have no idea which one it is.
Here are some calcs for Chi Yu

Chi Yu Calcs

Without Tera:
252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 118-139 (29.2 - 34.4%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

With Tera:
252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 156-185 (38.6 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
(might i remind you Tyranitar has no recovery so it just takes 38.6 to 45% without healing it off)

Without Tera:
252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 113-134 (37.1 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

With Tera:
252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 151-178 (49.6 - 58.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

Without Tera
252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Water Slowking: 136-161 (34.5 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

With Tera
252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Water Slowking: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO

Pretty nice calcs overall for Chi Yu. Nothing else to say really.

Roaring Moon

Roaring Moon is an interesting case. It loves to go Tera Flying to hit Great Tusk with a stab boosted Acrobatics with a Booster Energy boost, but going Tera Steel for Fairies, Tera Dark for Corviknight, or even Tera Dragon for boosted Outrages are fine options of themselves.

Roaring Moon Calcs

Without Tera:
+1 252 Atk Roaring Moon Acrobatics (with booster energy +atk)(110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 274-324 (63.1 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With Tera
+1 252 Atk Roaring Moon Acrobatics (with booster energy +atk) (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 410-486 (94.4 - 111.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

Without Tera
252 Atk Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 276-326 (63.8 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge re

With Tera
252 Atk Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 276-326 (63.8 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Without Tera
+1 252 Atk Roaring Moon Crunch vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 187-221 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

With Tera
+1 252 Atk Roaring Moon Crunch vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 249-294 (62.2 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Without Tera
+1 252 Atk Roaring Moon Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hatterene: 248-294 (77.9 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

With Tera
+1 252 Atk Roaring Moon Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hatterene: 374-440 (117.6 - 138.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Tera really does a lot for Roaring Moon in these little match ups and it probably wouldnt be as good as it is without it, STAB Acrobatics and ability to just smack fairies if it wants to really makes a large difference.

Anyways, that's probably all from me, I just picked some of the mons I thought benefitted offensively with Terastallizing, i can't be bothered to pick out every mon that benefits a lot from Terastallizing like Orthworm, Annihilape, Slowking, etc.

honestly a lot of these chien pao calcs make me think we should ban it lmao

that's ungodly damage for non-super effective moves holy shit (without tera)

 

[Beaf Cultist]

I made Avalugg Steel and am comitting to this for my team, now what?

As far as I know, Steel isn’t even close to Avalugg’s best Tera type. Might just be a teambuilding issue?

Also I literally mentioned a mon that benefits greatly from Tera Blast in my post. Get off your high horse.