Swapmons (Now playable!)

Excitement

Excitement

I'm really liking this idea, and I've been brainstorming for a couple of possible names:

- Spreadmons (catchy!)

- Flipmons (also catchy!)

- Stat Inversion (for people who like to get their point across!)

Yeah, I'm going to have to go with Spreadmons on this one. Because who cares about specificity when you've got a catchy name?
 
Pikachuun

Pikachuun

the entire waruda machine
Expulso said:
The Statistically Inversive Metagame
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Inverse Metagame was already taken. How about
The Metagame where all the lower BST mons get buffs while all the higher BST mons get nerfs because why the heck not? I mean seriously, Sunkern has to be the most underrated Pokemon in history and here it's finally taken the throne. Why are you still reading this? PLAY THE META.
 
Martingale

Martingale

Pikachuun said:
Inverse Metagame was already taken. How about
The Metagame where all the lower BST mons get buffs while all the higher BST mons get nerfs because why the heck not? I mean seriously, Sunkern has to be the most underrated Pokemon in history and here it's finally taken the throne. Why are you still reading this? PLAY THE META.
Click to expand...
TMWATBSTMGNNWTHN IMSSHTBTMUPIHAHIFTTT WAYSRT PTM gets my vote.

Alternatively, TwiStat maybe (a smashed-together version of twist and stat.) StaTwist isn't as catchy IMO.
 
Rumors

Rumors

I like TMWATBSTMGNNWTHN IMSSHTBTMUPIHAHIFTTT WAYSRT PTM. Followed by the more realistic option of a tie between Flipmons and Stat Inversion, followed by Spreadmons.

Also, AFAIK, Swapmons' first match! Sadly it wasn't my win, but ah well. That's what happens when I build a team in five minutes.
 

Kingpoleon

187/75/149/75/149/75 stats on Azurill, combined with Huge Power, let it take hits, and hit back hard. If you don't resist Return and Play Rough, prepare to die. How will we deal with the likes of Chatot with 109 Special Attack and NP? Also, Munna has 158/94/115 defenses and hits with a not too shabby 140 Special Attack. Shinx with 109/82/82 defenses and 157 attack along with Eviolite+Intimidate make it seem not too bad. So much stuff. This could turn into the Bulky offense game.
 
Schpoonman

Schpoonman

Watching that game by Rumors, are we really gonna keep Eviolite around? The little guys are already extremely powerful, fast, and bulky. Eviolite seems unnecessary.
 
Rumors

Rumors

One match is really a poor sample size. While my knee jerk reaction is to agree with you, I want to at least be sure there's not something we're overlooking that makes Eviolite not so amazing (Knock Off/Trick/Wonder Room and excessive boosting aside).

So, for the time being, abuse the hell out of eviolite and see if you can't find ways to bypass the walls using it. It'd also be nifty if people would play matches with and without it (use the same teams but switch Eviolite for Lefties or somesuch in a rematch). If it becomes clear that Eviolite is too strong (and if matches tend to go like mine did, it'll be obvious) or if it's just plain more fun not to use it, then I'll ban it.

I'll be honest and say I have no qualms about looking like I'm being ban-happy if the resulting bans result in a better metagame. Though at the same time, I'd rather not ban things if they don't need banning.
 
Rumors

Rumors

The easiest way to get a battle would probably be to ask in the OM room right now. Wouldn't hurt for spreading awareness of the meta either.
 
Kappaten

Kappaten

TooMuchSugar said:
Can Fletchling use Brave Bird? Because if so, it's essentially a better Talonflame.
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He can't, but I assume he can go itemless (or red card or sitrus or something) with acrobatics. Seems like it would work like it does in LC:

Fletchling
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Roost
- Swords Dance
- U-turn

Not sure it really has the power to muscle through these walls though.
 
TalkTakesTime

TalkTakesTime

as shallow as a plate of cereal
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
After a decent discussion on Joim's Lab while battles were down, a few of us came to the conclusion that there are probably a few things that need to be suspected:
  • Pure Power/Huge Power - everything that gets it also gets massively buffed attack and bulk, since their original stats were low because they had that ability. Bunnelby, Meditite and Azurill are probably all way too powerful for the meta
  • Smeargle - fuck this thing, it can go to hell. Decent bulk, incredibly high speed, AND every move in the game? It can do anything it wants and is nearly impossible to stop
  • Shedinja - lol
  • Clamperl - this thing has 740 SpA straight up, at the cost of an item slot. Plus Shell Smash. It forces every team to run Happiny to beat it, which is not good for the meta
Adrian Marin, perplexingpool, did I forget anything?
 

perplexingpool

Banned deucer.
TalkTakesTime said:
After a decent discussion on Joim's Lab while battles were down, a few of us came to the conclusion that there are probably a few things that need to be suspected:
  • Pure Power/Huge Power - everything that gets it also gets massively buffed attack and bulk, since their original stats were low because they had that ability. Bunnelby, Meditite and Azurill are probably all way too powerful for the meta
  • Smeargle - fuck this thing, it can go to hell. Decent bulk, incredibly high speed, AND every move in the game? It can do anything it wants and is nearly impossible to stop
  • Shedinja - lol
  • Clamperl - this thing has 740 SpA straight up, at the cost of an item slot. Plus Shell Smash. It forces every team to run Happiny to beat it, which is not good for the meta
Adrian Marin, perplexingpool, did I forget anything?
Click to expand...
Eviolite will need to be looked at. I just can't see offensive teams ever succeeding with stuff like Happiny and Wooper, and to even have a chance, will have to run copious amounts of knock off, which is very restrictive.
 
Adrian Marin

Adrian Marin

There are many metas where fully defensive teams cannot succeed, I honestly see no problem with Eviolite and a defensive metagame in general.
 

perplexingpool

Banned deucer.
Adrian Marin said:
There are many metas where fully defensive teams cannot succeed, I honestly see no problem with Eviolite and a defensive metagame in general.
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I feel that without eviolite and huge/pure power, the meta has the potential to be really balanced. Just as an offensively biased meta is bad, so is a defensively biased one. With a ban on one but not the other the metagame will skew towards either offense or defense, and either state would be negative. Not banning either I feel will lead to a meta centralised around huge/pure power and physical walls, which doesn't seem fun at all.

Idk about Smeargle, Shed, and Clamperl (a ban on deepseatooth would be better imo), I think more testing is necessary to determine whether they're broke or not.
 
Rumors

Rumors

Like I said on the server last night, I'd like to check Eviolite first before making decisions on most individual mons. Wooper can wall Bunnelby, for example, with Eviolite, and I'm sure there's others that can too (Wooper's the only one I've calced). So with Eviolite, HP/PP may not be broken and instead we might have walls that are too good However, if Eviolite is banned, then HP/PP might be too good on some/all users and unwallable.

Well, Smeargle is an exception and a good suspect since its gimmick doesn't really care about Eviolite and it does have rather crazy speed. If the only thing that is able to stop it ends up being a couple of Pranksters, then... yeah.

As I said in my post above, I have no problem with banning things, but I would like to see how things work in practice for a while rather than making bans based on theorymonning or knee-jerk reactions. But if it turns out that your theories are correct, then the suspects will be smitten by the ban hammer and eradicated. Hopefully the issue of games not working will be fixed soon, or already has, so we can see how stuff works in practice. If something is seriously broken, like Mega Gengar in OU level of broken, it'll become obvious fairly quickly.
 

mallpal

Ghosts have a decent chance of walling bunnelby, have a look at yamask or duskull. there's ferroseed too, which 2hkos with gyro ball. even without eviolite:
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Bunnelby Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Ferroseed: 142-168 (37.8 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
 
Kit Kasai

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
mallpal said:
Ghosts have a decent chance of walling bunnelby, have a look at yamask or duskull. there's ferroseed too, which 2hkos with gyro ball. even without eviolite:
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Bunnelby Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Ferroseed: 142-168 (37.8 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Click to expand...
Yeah, I guess duskull hard walls it, blocking both its stabs
 

Kingpoleon

SD Bunnelby tears right through all defensive Pokemon. Does Azurill get Quick Attack? If it does, we should address Huge Power/Pure Power, as at least those two will be broken.
 
Rumors

Rumors

Sorry for not being as involved in this as I should be lately. Work and school have been cooperating to assassinate my free time.

But anyway, we have five new Pokemon added to Showdown recently and I figured it'd be best to update Swapmons to include their proper new BSTs, even if nobody who understands the tier will use them. Format is, as in the opening post, HP/Atk/Def/Sp. A/Sp. D/Spe/BST format.

Latios - Mega: 23 37 29 46 34 31 200
Latias - Mega: 24 34 35 35 44 32 204
Diancie: 25 50 75 50 75 25 300
Volcanion: 35 55 60 60 55 35 300
Hoopa: 40 52 30 75 65 38 300

These are based off of the BSTs found here, which are listed below If these are incorrect, let me know so I can recalculate the Swapmon stats.

Latios-Mega: 80/130/100/160/120/110
Latias-Mega: 80/115/120/120/150/110
Diance: 50/100/150/100/150/50
Volcanion: 70/109/120/121/110/70
Hoopa: 80/105/59/151/130/75
 

natnew

so...

Bidoof 153 117 104 91 104 81 650

simple abuse, anyone? bulk + eviolite + simple + curse + amnesia... OW
 
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