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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]
- Thread starter TPP
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I'm already gonna say this as a newbie who just did some games at the start of the Gen9 OU and that now only does Random Battles (which i shouldn't say anything since I basically lack everything of the competitive, but watching both some videos and the discussions here I made some idea).
So my real first team for OU that I ever made that personally felt good was a Sun one that had Torkoal, Great Tusks, Roaring Moon, Garganacl, Scovillain and Charizard honestly I feel so bad seeing half of my old team dropped in lower tiers (RM in UU while Zard and Scovillain in PU and (PU)), since was my first team that i made myself and that worked.
But anyway, the matches were fine Ig, but as everything are saying, the problem in this Meta is the Hyper Offense in this tier, that even if wasn't so common (I think) at the start, most of the matches included teams with more sweepers, but probably was because I was at the bottom ladder, and even if the hazards control is one of the biggest problems att (at this time) they were almost inexistent,
The Stall isn't even that great of a problem seeing all the heal resources besides Wish being nerfed, and the Blob Sisters not having Toxic dropped in the lowest tiers, which if you're gonna tell this to anyone who played or plays the competitive of old gens, including Gen 8, they are just gonna laugh at you for years until probably the next Gen drops.
But what I want to say, is that as everyone are saying, we are having a clearly problem with HO teams. Which doesn't need a genius to understand, but if in the old Gens we had at least checks or even counters to control certain Pokémon without them running freely spreading chaos in the tier, and the only few that had to be ban in Ubers were exactly Legendaries (with the exceptions of some like Garchomp), but still some were allowed in OU, we arrived to a point in which we had some normal mons banned in Ubers and many staples of the old competitive gens like TTAR dropped in the lowest tiers and same fate to legendaries for how crazy this power creep is. Between a piece of chess whooping your ass with the power of friendship and of that gun he found, the Kyurem-B of Wish that if you search it online you have problems with the sword similar to its name, but being just on steorids and not having problems with the fire and its consequences and having EVEN DD while being the Pseudo with the most Attack ever, Mr. Krabs's dream both blocking you from removing any hazards and being a problem both with Trick and its raw power, just to give some of the most common examples, and I still remember the days of when only Cyclizar with Shed Tail, Chi-Yu, Palafin, Flutter Mane to give some examples were banned in Ubers, but then we reached even Volc and Regieleki with BoltBeam coverage thanks to the Tera, that even if they were OU they had their limitations that blocked them, but with the Tera they got unleashed, and does really strange to say, and that I also hate personally mainly for being annoying, but we need some stall back to possibly (and hopefully) balance the things.
And in all of this last things I want to say is that I really hope that I managed to share some good thoughts with all of you and not bad ones since I'm mostly scared to talk on forums for constantly saying the worst things at the worst times, and if you read all of this, have an excellent day or night depending on your time zone.
It seems like Rillaboom is getting Grassy Glide back. Thoughts on how it will fare in OU?
Zapdos/Moltres might keep Rilla from being too overwhelming but I do think it will be very good. It will notably be one of the few physical attackers that can reliably switch into and break Dondozo. Tera grass will boost its priority to nasty damage levels.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Grass Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant in Grassy Terrain: 298-352 (103.1 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Grass Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zapdos in Grassy Terrain: 156-184 (48.5 - 57.3%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Grass Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 224 HP / 0 Def Cinderace in Grassy Terrain: 173-204 (48.4 - 57.1%) -- 41.8% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
Available checks/counters include Dragonite, Moltres, physdef Zapdos, Corviknight, and Amoonguss. Gholdengo will likely be a common Rilla partner to exploit the last two.
Zapdos/Moltres might keep Rilla from being too overwhelming but I do think it will be very good. It will notably be one of the few physical attackers that can reliably switch into and break Dondozo. Tera grass will boost its priority to nasty damage levels.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Grass Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant in Grassy Terrain: 298-352 (103.1 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Grass Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zapdos in Grassy Terrain: 156-184 (48.5 - 57.3%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Grass Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 224 HP / 0 Def Cinderace in Grassy Terrain: 173-204 (48.4 - 57.1%) -- 41.8% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
Available checks/counters include Dragonite, Moltres, physdef Zapdos, Corviknight, and Amoonguss. Gholdengo will likely be a common Rilla partner to exploit the last two.
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You won't be running choice band for the same reason you didn't last gen: much too prediction reliant for a Pokemon so lacking in defensive utility. Especially in a generation where hazards are as omnipresent as they are. If you use it, you'd use the same bulky Swords dance set it ran late last gen. It'll be solid, but the bp nerf is actually significant and means it needs to use tera if it wants to actually reliably threaten revenge kills against key targets.
Also Don can tera out of its grass weakness.
Drifblim seems to be an counter to Ursaluna, it's typing is immune to Both Ursaluna's STAB.
It can remove Guts with Skill Swap. However it can take serious damage from Ice Punch, Thunder Punch, Crunch and Stone Edge.
It can remove Guts with Skill Swap. However it can take serious damage from Ice Punch, Thunder Punch, Crunch and Stone Edge.
Grassy Terrain + Grassy Glide on Rilla rounds out a strong utility suite that includes knock off and u-turn. Moyashi made the key points on the struggles with its offensive profile, and I would add that Tera-dependent Bulky setup sweepers with priority are a bit of a crowded field right now.
Despite that, Grassy Glide at least gives it a speed control option, and that makes it much less likely to be dead weight in OU. I don't see it jumping to OU on usage, but I do see it having an increase in viability, and with it, an increase in experimentation with Grassy Terrain teams.
There is no confirmation that Rillaboom is regaining Grassy Glide, even with its return. TM access has been revoked from Pokemon before starting in Gen 8, and it’s very possible that Rillaboom may lose it given its VGC influence.
I’m generally fine with theorymonning about confirmed returns as we draw closer to DLC1, but I will draw the line at leaks and misinformation. Thank you!!
I’m generally fine with theorymonning about confirmed returns as we draw closer to DLC1, but I will draw the line at leaks and misinformation. Thank you!!
Ohh my bad. Tysm for clarifying!
On a different topic, I have loved using Dondozo this gen. It feels like Gen 8 Buzzwole in that it takes a lot of pressure off the builder by checking most physical attackers. What sets are people running on the sushi fish? I've found physdef rocky helmet; liquidation/body press/rest/sleep talk to work pretty well!
Want to help shape our post-DLC SV OU metagame? Respond to this quick tiering survey on potential drops from Ubers to the brand new OU tier:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-tiering-surveys.3711911/#post-9769941
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-tiering-surveys.3711911/#post-9769941
How much TM access has actually been revoked? In SwSh a lot of Pokemon don't have access to Roost for example, but that's simply because it isn't a TM in the generation. I don't doubt that it happened, and BDSP has Toxic as an actual example, but I imagine it is very rare that a move is learnable in one generation and not in another if the move is still teachable. I do think this is a fair policy, especially as someone that wants to see Scald and Toxic have much lower distribution if/when they come back to the main games, but I'm still curious how often this has actually happened.
Survey time, its the 4 one I have to fill today lmao
5, I'm used to the volc cheese, and really deserves a second chance, with the poison monkeys coming, maybe we can potentially see volc getting poison stalled, dirge also did fairly well even tho it doesn't have a good matchup against the top mons, the list is probably gonna change so who knows, I want to see it back
4: I didn't have enough experience fighting urshifus, so I'm interested in fighting more, I felt it was kinda rushed too, I know sd tera water pads shits on zapdos but i don't know man, Chesnaught also has a good matchup against it so Its clearly balanced and I don't care about whatever calcs you're gonna throw at me
1, fuck no, walls the entirety of the tier to hell and back and uses everything as set up fodder, stupid easy mon to use
0, I still remember
Are you good at the game? No, so here is a bnuuy vid to compensate
5, I'm used to the volc cheese, and really deserves a second chance, with the poison monkeys coming, maybe we can potentially see volc getting poison stalled, dirge also did fairly well even tho it doesn't have a good matchup against the top mons, the list is probably gonna change so who knows, I want to see it back 4: I didn't have enough experience fighting urshifus, so I'm interested in fighting more, I felt it was kinda rushed too, I know sd tera water pads shits on zapdos but i don't know man, Chesnaught also has a good matchup against it so Its clearly balanced and I don't care about whatever calcs you're gonna throw at me 1, fuck no, walls the entirety of the tier to hell and back and uses everything as set up fodder, stupid easy mon to use 0, I still rememberAre you good at the game? No, so here is a bnuuy vid to compensate
Volc (5) - Didn't think it should've been QB the first place and the meta thoroughly needed something for Iron Valiant as well as something that can threaten Kingambit with Will-O-Wisp sets.
Urshifu RS (1) - Yeah probably pretty broken under rain and with Swords Dance + Punching Glove
Zama-C (1) - No, and if you keyword search awyp and zamazenta crowned youll find a post providing reasoning
Urshifu RS (1) - Yeah probably pretty broken under rain and with Swords Dance + Punching Glove
Zama-C (1) - No, and if you keyword search awyp and zamazenta crowned youll find a post providing reasoning
Palafin-H (3) - I don't mind it, I think it should be brought back just to see, but it's probably broken.
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KamenOH
formerly DynamaxBestMeta
Volc 5 god i miss moff
Ursh 2 its like if kingambit didnt bother with sucker punch, yet still went first and hit harder
Dog wall 2.0 1-2 christ its impenetrable
Palaflop 2 Slacking but no slack. If it wasnt best lead material i would recommend bringing shadow tag back for it
Ursh 2 its like if kingambit didnt bother with sucker punch, yet still went first and hit harder
Dog wall 2.0 1-2 christ its impenetrable
Palaflop 2 Slacking but no slack. If it wasnt best lead material i would recommend bringing shadow tag back for it
Volc - 5 : Deserves a test even if it's broken
Urshifu-Rapid Strike - 1 : Hideously broken with SD, Punching Gloves, and being able to Terastalize into another type.
Zamazenta-Crowned - 2 : It sets up on more than Zamazenta-Hero due to better typing and higher initial bulk. It also matches up better against more of the top mons, but it is worse vs fat due to not being able run Choice Band and also gets chipped easier due to not being able to hold a usable item. It's probably broken.
Palafin - 1 : This has no business being OU as long as Tera is legal. Without Tera, there are actually answers to this thing. With Tera, it is ridiculous to face with extremely limited counterplay. This should not be dropped into OU unless Tera is banned. I don't understand why this is being considered for a drop, and this is coming from me, the biggest proponent of testing Palafin in a Teraless meta, but this is not a Teraless meta, so...
Urshifu-Rapid Strike - 1 : Hideously broken with SD, Punching Gloves, and being able to Terastalize into another type.
Zamazenta-Crowned - 2 : It sets up on more than Zamazenta-Hero due to better typing and higher initial bulk. It also matches up better against more of the top mons, but it is worse vs fat due to not being able run Choice Band and also gets chipped easier due to not being able to hold a usable item. It's probably broken.
Palafin - 1 : This has no business being OU as long as Tera is legal. Without Tera, there are actually answers to this thing. With Tera, it is ridiculous to face with extremely limited counterplay. This should not be dropped into OU unless Tera is banned. I don't understand why this is being considered for a drop, and this is coming from me, the biggest proponent of testing Palafin in a Teraless meta, but this is not a Teraless meta, so...
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Take in mind that Urshifu learns Acrobatics, it can deal 78.9 - 93.6% to Chesnaught at 110 BP and OHKOes it if Urshifu has Tera Flying. (This calc was max defense and HP Chesnaught and a Jolly Urshifu with 252 Atk EVs)
In the other side, Tera Fairy handles Single strike Urshifu well, and anihilates it with an single Fairy Tera Blast, But it is vulnerable to the rare Iron Head and Poison Jab.
Volc should be given another shot given the community response to its last ban and for the sake of establishing a receptive process to the new release patterns. Obviously it can be banned again, ideally via suspect, if it is still a problem.
Palafin is ridiculous to me and I would never personally let it touch OU. Urshifu-Rapid is not Palafin tier, but it’s insanely strong and forced teams to use one of a very small pool of potential answers to the point that it’s not worth warping the tier to me. If others disagree and want to try Urshifu, that’s fine with me as we can always be aggressive with tiering.
Zama I’m more on the fence with and don’t feel too strongly on either way, but probably lean towards keeping it Ubers due to seeing it stifle progress and limit things so much in the brief time it was allowed. Maybe things will change? But I have my doubts.
Palafin is ridiculous to me and I would never personally let it touch OU. Urshifu-Rapid is not Palafin tier, but it’s insanely strong and forced teams to use one of a very small pool of potential answers to the point that it’s not worth warping the tier to me. If others disagree and want to try Urshifu, that’s fine with me as we can always be aggressive with tiering.
Zama I’m more on the fence with and don’t feel too strongly on either way, but probably lean towards keeping it Ubers due to seeing it stifle progress and limit things so much in the brief time it was allowed. Maybe things will change? But I have my doubts.
An Tera Rock Gholdengo can catch an Volcarona off guard with an Power Gem.
252 SpA Tera Rock Gholdengo Power Gem vs. +1 80 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 340-408 (102.7 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Tera Rock Gholdengo Power Gem vs. +1 80 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 340-408 (102.7 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Volc - 4, it's not unbeatable just annoying.
Zama C - 1, too broken with tera and much better than the hero form due to extra bulk + steel type
Urshifu RS - 2, SD set too broken and tera water banded is disgusting as well
Palafin - 1, Why's this even on the survey? It was one of the earliest bans and Taunt BU was way too difficult to handle
Zama C - 1, too broken with tera and much better than the hero form due to extra bulk + steel type
Urshifu RS - 2, SD set too broken and tera water banded is disgusting as well
Palafin - 1, Why's this even on the survey? It was one of the earliest bans and Taunt BU was way too difficult to handle
On the subject of Palafin, since its inclusion on the survey is probably the most surprising to people, I do think it getting a shot is less ridiculous than it may seem but now is not the time.
Bulk Up Taunt would definitely be less consistent at bullying certain bulky waters if any or all of stuff like Pex, Slowtwins, Dozo etc receive scald soon. Stuff like Glide Rilla as well could be a nuisance and it's obviously it's hard to know how these new legends will interact with it. My guess is both offensive and defensive teras let it muscle its way through most would be checks and nothing will really change but sure it's not the craziest mon that could be on here.
The thing with Palafin and really any of these mons (besides maybe Volc?) Is that the tier will become even more of a disaster next week even without ubers dropping down to make that worse. DLC 2 and knowing the results of any future tera decision probably need to happen before some of these mons get talked about again. And another quickban for these just further hurts community perception of the mons and make them harder to reintroduce down the line when they might actually not be fucked up.
Bulk Up Taunt would definitely be less consistent at bullying certain bulky waters if any or all of stuff like Pex, Slowtwins, Dozo etc receive scald soon. Stuff like Glide Rilla as well could be a nuisance and it's obviously it's hard to know how these new legends will interact with it. My guess is both offensive and defensive teras let it muscle its way through most would be checks and nothing will really change but sure it's not the craziest mon that could be on here.
The thing with Palafin and really any of these mons (besides maybe Volc?) Is that the tier will become even more of a disaster next week even without ubers dropping down to make that worse. DLC 2 and knowing the results of any future tera decision probably need to happen before some of these mons get talked about again. And another quickban for these just further hurts community perception of the mons and make them harder to reintroduce down the line when they might actually not be fucked up.
yeah, i voted the same way. even with the controversy surrounding volc, i'm not a fan of dropping things from ubers during meta shifts in general, especially in a meta this wildly unbalanced. we should prioritize getting to a point where things are reasonably balanced before we start discussing dropping stuff
4 - QB was a mistake in the sense that it should have been suspected. That being said I don't like this mon. 4 - This mon deserved a suspect more than Volcarona tbh. We complain about there being no Gambit checks, Ting-Lu and Hammy being annoying, blah blah blah but then ban a mon that checks all 3? I'll admit that Trailblaze set could be annoying, but even then that set just seems like a worse BU Tusk to me (weaker STABs, worse Defense, way less coverage options and its speed boosting move doesn't clear hazards, Tusk gets all its moves boosted in Sun, etc.). If Scald is coming back in the DLC, then this mon unquestionably becomes weaker. SD + Taunt lets can't just set up on Pex for free like it can currently can without running Cloak and if it runs Cloak it becomes fodder for many of the Rocky Helmet mons. 4 - I was not convinced this mon was OP the first time around, but probably a skill issue lmao. Could stay banned now that I think about it more, but I already voted. Still, a mon that can't run PP vs Zap / Moltres + struggles vs some Gholdengo / Pult Variants doesn't seem like the best to me but maybe Tera pushes it over the edge.
4 - I deadass didn't see this mon at all when it was legal which is why I want to test it again. Pretty confident it is still broken, but on paper, the set that broke it (Taunt / Bulk Up / Jet Punch / Drain Punch) doesn't seem like its that much better than Urshifu-RS to me. Probably still banworthy, but having it in the meta for a week doesn't seem too bad.Nevermind that dondozo wouldn't even run scald, but having relying on RNG to try and answer a Pokemon (fishing for scald burns) is not really a sign of a healthy Pokemon.
Warning: this is a fever dream of me wishing to see a bad Arceus Type fall to OU just because of the typing alone, for funny reasons. Yeah I was serious when I wrote this but I'm just about to hit post and I realize now how nonsensical this is. But I spent like 4 hours on this so let me cook. Tera is a lie invented by the government to sell more jewellery.
What are your thoughts on Arceus-Bug in OU? It has great stats and a (potentially) great movepool but no ability, no item, is weak to hazards, status and has questionnable STAB.
Here's some calcs I didfor those interested: no I changed my mind you are going to look at the calcs I spent way too much time on them
It's easy to see those calcs and see that Arceus-Bug makes big damage, but dont forget he takes big damage too!!!! Unable to put on boots because he needs to hold his bug certificate, Arceus-Bug is very weak to hazards, especially rocks and Tspikes. His only method of recovery is limited to 8 Recovers and he has no way to remove status. A lot of OU mons put Arceus-Bug in the "Uh-Oh" range and chances are he might start spamming his recovers like a nerd with an inhaler on his first date.
Overall, this puts Bug Boy as a fragile stallbreaker imo, and I don't know what else to say except these numbers mean nothing to me, I play low ladder, I am very tired and I want to see the OU tier squish Arceus-Bug or die trying.
But hey! Maybe I'm overlooking some things! Maybe Arceus has better moves, threatens more mons than I thought of, is threatened more by some mons than I thought, has much more weaknesses, or maybe he's literally the god of the pokémon world and I forgot all about that part.
whaddaya think.
suspect or sus post.
ok bye I don't know how to end a post so
What are your thoughts on Arceus-Bug in OU? It has great stats and a (potentially) great movepool but no ability, no item, is weak to hazards, status and has questionnable STAB.
Here's some calcs I did
I made these calcs using Smogon OU sets for the OU mons, and the Calm Mind Uber set for Arceus-Bug (and added Judgement as a STAB option just in case)
To start off, let's start with how much power Arceus would pack at +1 against some of the most common OU walls. I added and removed stat boosts depending on the opponent's set.
Now let's make like Nietzsche and attempt to kill god with our own hands, this time with OU's special attackers. This includes a calc for their most relevant moves, one of which Arceus is at +1spdef and one after stealth rock switch-in, with a +1spdef only if arceus is faster and can get off a calm mind before the opponent moves.
What about physical attackers? i'm getting tired so let's just physical attackers that threaten buggy boy, with only their strongest or threatening moves.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Lechonk Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 194-230 (43.7 - 51.9%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO
Okay that's it for the calcs say thank you to the adhd everyone! thank you!!!!!!
To start off, let's start with how much power Arceus would pack at +1 against some of the most common OU walls. I added and removed stat boosts depending on the opponent's set.
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 248-294 (57.4 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 124-147 (28.7 - 34%) -- 1.6% chance to 3HKO
+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 247-292 (57.1 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 166-196 (38.4 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 83-98 (19.2 - 22.6%) -- possible 5HKO
8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 166-196 (38.4 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 124-147 (28.7 - 34%) -- 1.6% chance to 3HKO
+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 247-292 (57.1 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 166-196 (38.4 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 83-98 (19.2 - 22.6%) -- possible 5HKO
8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 166-196 (38.4 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Clodsire: 112-132 (24.1 - 28.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Clodsire: 112-132 (24.1 - 28.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Clodsire: 112-132 (24.1 - 28.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Corviknight: 130-153 (32.5 - 38.3%) -- 2.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Corviknight: 130-153 (32.5 - 38.3%) -- 98.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Corviknight: 130-153 (32.5 - 38.3%) -- 98.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 390-462 (87.8 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 260-308 (58.5 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 174-206 (39.1 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 260-308 (58.5 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 174-206 (39.1 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 246-290 (65 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Hatterene: 148-175 (46.5 - 55%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hatterene: 222-262 (69.8 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Hatterene: 222-262 (70 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hatterene: 222-262 (69.8 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Hatterene: 222-262 (70 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 114-136 (28.9 - 34.5%) -- 4.7% chance to 3HKO
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowking-Galar: 210-248 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowking-Galar: 210-248 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 144-170 (28 - 33%) -- 84.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 288-338 (56 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 96-114 (18.6 - 22.1%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 188-224 (36.5 - 43.5%) -- 99.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 288-338 (56 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 96-114 (18.6 - 22.1%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 188-224 (36.5 - 43.5%) -- 99.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Toxapex: 112-134 (36.9 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 160-190 (52.6 - 62.5%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 108-128 (35.5 - 42.1%) -- 85.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 160-190 (52.6 - 62.5%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 108-128 (35.5 - 42.1%) -- 85.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam/Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 102-120 (26.2 - 30.9%) -- 6.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (both moves have the same values)
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam/Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zamazenta: 102-120 (31.3 - 36.9%) -- 77% chance to 3HKO (both moves have the same values)
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam/Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zamazenta: 102-120 (31.3 - 36.9%) -- 77% chance to 3HKO (both moves have the same values)
Now let's make like Nietzsche and attempt to kill god with our own hands, this time with OU's special attackers. This includes a calc for their most relevant moves, one of which Arceus is at +1spdef and one after stealth rock switch-in, with a +1spdef only if arceus is faster and can get off a calm mind before the opponent moves.
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 153-180 (34.5 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 228-268 (51.4 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Flamethrower vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 140-166 (31.6 - 37.4%) -- 86.5% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 210-248 (47.4 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 228-268 (51.4 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Flamethrower vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 140-166 (31.6 - 37.4%) -- 86.5% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 210-248 (47.4 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Enamorus Mystical Fire vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 146-172 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO
+1 252 SpA Enamorus Mystical Fire vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 146-172 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
this is a calm mind enam, but choice specs are the same results
+1 252 SpA Enamorus Mystical Fire vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 146-172 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
this is a calm mind enam, but choice specs are the same results
252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Fire Blast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 143-169 (32.2 - 38.1%) -- 94.5% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Fire Blast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 143-169 (32.2 - 38.1%) -- 2.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 125-148 (28.2 - 33.4%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 125-148 (28.2 - 33.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Fire Blast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 143-169 (32.2 - 38.1%) -- 2.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 125-148 (28.2 - 33.4%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 125-148 (28.2 - 33.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 228-268 (51.4 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 228-268 (51.4 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 114-135 (25.7 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 114-135 (25.7 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 187-222 (42.2 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 187-222 (42.2 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 228-268 (51.4 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 114-135 (25.7 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 114-135 (25.7 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 187-222 (42.2 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 187-222 (42.2 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 114-136 (25.7 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 169-200 (38.1 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 172-203 (38.8 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 253-300 (57.1 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 130-154 (29.3 - 34.7%) -- 7.9% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 195-231 (44 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 169-200 (38.1 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 172-203 (38.8 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 253-300 (57.1 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 130-154 (29.3 - 34.7%) -- 7.9% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 195-231 (44 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 186-222 (41.9 - 50.1%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO after trapping damage
252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 186-222 (41.9 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and trapping damage
252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 186-222 (41.9 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and trapping damage
132 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 146-174 (32.9 - 39.2%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO
132 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 218-258 (49.2 - 58.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 132 SpA Quark Drive Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 284-336 (64.1 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 132 SpA Quark Drive Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 284-336 (64.1 - 75.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Moth Overheat vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 384-452 (86.6 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Moth Overheat vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 384-452 (86.6 - 102%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
-2 252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Moth Overheat vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 192-228 (43.3 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
132 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 218-258 (49.2 - 58.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 132 SpA Quark Drive Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 284-336 (64.1 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 132 SpA Quark Drive Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 284-336 (64.1 - 75.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Moth Overheat vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 384-452 (86.6 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Moth Overheat vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 384-452 (86.6 - 102%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
-2 252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Moth Overheat vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 192-228 (43.3 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Quark Drive Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 163-193 (36.7 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 SpA Quark Drive Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 163-193 (36.7 - 43.5%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Quark Drive Iron Valiant Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 137-162 (30.9 - 36.5%) -- 65.6% chance to 3HKO
+1 252 SpA Quark Drive Iron Valiant Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 137-162 (30.9 - 36.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 84-100 (18.9 - 22.5%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 127-150 (28.6 - 33.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 126-148 (28.4 - 33.4%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 126-148 (28.4 - 33.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 106-125 (23.9 - 28.2%) -- 94.4% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 106-125 (23.9 - 28.2%) -- 90.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Quark Drive Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 163-193 (36.7 - 43.5%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Quark Drive Iron Valiant Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 137-162 (30.9 - 36.5%) -- 65.6% chance to 3HKO
+1 252 SpA Quark Drive Iron Valiant Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 137-162 (30.9 - 36.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 84-100 (18.9 - 22.5%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 127-150 (28.6 - 33.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 126-148 (28.4 - 33.4%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 126-148 (28.4 - 33.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 106-125 (23.9 - 28.2%) -- 94.4% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 106-125 (23.9 - 28.2%) -- 90.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
208 SpA Sandy Shocks Thunderbolt vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 78-93 (17.6 - 20.9%) -- possible 5HKO
208 SpA Sandy Shocks Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 117-138 (26.4 - 31.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
208 SpA Sandy Shocks Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 117-138 (26.4 - 31.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
ok there are a lot of calcs here, but this should cover if you have specs, booster energy, if you are in sun, etc. I ADHD pretty hard on this one. You're welcome, Wacky Wink fans.
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 177-208 (39.9 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 177-208 (39.9 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 262-310 (59.1 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 162-192 (36.5 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 162-192 (36.5 - 43.3%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 366-432 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 366-432 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 156-184 (35.2 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 234-276 (52.8 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 234-276 (52.8 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 350-414 (79 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 121-144 (27.3 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 180-213 (40.6 - 48%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 156-184 (35.2 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 156-184 (35.2 - 41.5%) -- 70.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 177-208 (39.9 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 177-208 (39.9 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 262-310 (59.1 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 162-192 (36.5 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 162-192 (36.5 - 43.3%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 366-432 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 366-432 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 156-184 (35.2 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 234-276 (52.8 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 234-276 (52.8 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 350-414 (79 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 121-144 (27.3 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 180-213 (40.6 - 48%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 156-184 (35.2 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 156-184 (35.2 - 41.5%) -- 70.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
What about physical attackers? i'm getting tired so let's just physical attackers that threaten buggy boy, with only their strongest or threatening moves.
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 229-271 (51.6 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (&after Stealth Rock)
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 610-718 (137.6 - 162%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 610-718 (137.6 - 162%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Baxcalibur Glaive Rush vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 271-321 (61.1 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (&after Stealth Rock)
+1 252 Atk Baxcalibur Glaive Rush vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 271-321 (61.1 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (&after Stealth Rock)
+2 252 Atk Baxcalibur Glaive Rush vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 364-429 (82.1 - 96.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
+1 252 Atk Baxcalibur Glaive Rush vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 271-321 (61.1 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (&after Stealth Rock)
+2 252 Atk Baxcalibur Glaive Rush vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 364-429 (82.1 - 96.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 308-366 (69.5 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
32 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 258-306 (58.2 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (&after Stealth Rock)
32 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 258-306 (58.2 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (&after Stealth Rock)
252 Atk Choice Band Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 200-236 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- approx. 25.8% chance to 2HKO (also says "approx. 2HKO after Stealth Rock"; like, without a percentage or anything. Is this bugged?)
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Outrage vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 282-333 (63.6 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 236-278 (53.2 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (& after Stealth Rock) [this is a +1 calc and is also true for choice band]
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 236-278 (53.2 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (& after Stealth Rock) [this is a +1 calc and is also true for choice band]
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 3 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 175-207 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 204-240 (46 - 54.1%) -- 48.4% chance to 2HKO (guaranteed after Stealth Rock)
252 Atk Tera Flying Landorus-Therian Tera Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 324-384 (73.1 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
252 Atk Tera Flying Landorus-Therian Tera Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 324-384 (73.1 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasler Dire Claw vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 168-198 (37.9 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (3HKO without it)
Okay that's it for the calcs say thank you to the adhd everyone! thank you!!!!!!
It's easy to see those calcs and see that Arceus-Bug makes big damage, but dont forget he takes big damage too!!!! Unable to put on boots because he needs to hold his bug certificate, Arceus-Bug is very weak to hazards, especially rocks and Tspikes. His only method of recovery is limited to 8 Recovers and he has no way to remove status. A lot of OU mons put Arceus-Bug in the "Uh-Oh" range and chances are he might start spamming his recovers like a nerd with an inhaler on his first date.
Overall, this puts Bug Boy as a fragile stallbreaker imo, and I don't know what else to say except these numbers mean nothing to me, I play low ladder, I am very tired and I want to see the OU tier squish Arceus-Bug or die trying.
But hey! Maybe I'm overlooking some things! Maybe Arceus has better moves, threatens more mons than I thought of, is threatened more by some mons than I thought, has much more weaknesses, or maybe he's literally the god of the pokémon world and I forgot all about that part.
whaddaya think.
suspect or sus post.
ok bye I don't know how to end a post so
- Status