This. HGant is IMO a better Breloom in terms of a breaker and sweeper, especially with Hustle. It's an amazing HO sweeper that has better ability to abuse Sleep Powder because of its speed.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]
- Thread starter TPP
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Tera haters are so hypocritical.
You have team preview, use it to assess the potential vulnerabilities, how it would evolve if X mon Teras, etc. If there's a blurry area, where a pokemon's Tera reveal might completely ruin your calculations, then acknowledge that mon and build a strat around circumventing it. You have the tools: hazards, status, protect, your own Tera strats/wincon, etc.
Comp pokemon is all about RISK MANAGEMENT ffs.
Muh Volcarona argument. Yeah, Volc+Tera is broken, therefore bye bye to Ubers Annoying Moth. If Kingambit is deemed as broken with Tera (he's not), then goodbye to him to.
Genuinely, all salt aside...
How is screeching over Tera any different from low elo players complaining over items unpredictability where they lost cause Landorus was scarfed all along despite having set up SR turn 1?
edit: removed insults, and I apologize. Please answer question.
You have team preview, use it to assess the potential vulnerabilities, how it would evolve if X mon Teras, etc. If there's a blurry area, where a pokemon's Tera reveal might completely ruin your calculations, then acknowledge that mon and build a strat around circumventing it. You have the tools: hazards, status, protect, your own Tera strats/wincon, etc.
Comp pokemon is all about RISK MANAGEMENT ffs.
Muh Volcarona argument. Yeah, Volc+Tera is broken, therefore bye bye to Ubers Annoying Moth. If Kingambit is deemed as broken with Tera (he's not), then goodbye to him to.
Genuinely, all salt aside...
How is screeching over Tera any different from low elo players complaining over items unpredictability where they lost cause Landorus was scarfed all along despite having set up SR turn 1?
edit: removed insults, and I apologize. Please answer question.
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great argument, i am entirely convinced now, LandorusTBeatsGreatTusk
please let’s not even entertain a person equating not recognising a t1 scarf lando with the variability of tera
please let’s not even entertain a person equating not recognising a t1 scarf lando with the variability of tera
I don’t want to reveal too many of my secrets before WCOP, but one thing I find criminally underrated and I’ve been having success with across the entire matchup spectrum has been 
! I am sure if I told you it was good, you wouldn’t be too surprised and you’d suspect Specs on Rain would be going to town, which isn’t incorrect at all. However, I’ve found even more steady success, especially against bulkier foes, with this set:
Volcanion @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 152 HP / 252 SpA / 104 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Flamethrower
- Fire Spin
- Taunt
Speed outruns Ursaluna’s maxed out variant we occasionally see outside of TR and pretty much every Kingambit, special attack is maximized, and HP actually comes in clutch against a few EQs and Dragapult attacks.
The premise of the set is to take the already strong profile of Volcanion, who poses a threat as a special attacker, and make the most of it as a team supporter and in less ideal matchups for its offensive profile. You’re able to trap virtually anything on ladder stall right now, which comes into play the most against Blissey and Toxapex. You’re also able to disrupt pivoting around one STAB to bait another if you time Fire Spin nicely as a middleground. Taunt in general also helps prevent a couple of things.
Finally, Tera Fairy is a gigantic assist in the Walking Wake Sun matchup as you retain Water Absorb and can be immune to both STAB. Similar dynamic with Urshifu-Rapid, who cannot Surging Strike you and suddenly had CC resisted after you Terastallization. It also was great when Pao was allowed and still helps you walk physical Dragapult, take neutral damage from EQs, and even can flip the Roaring Moon and +2 Kingambit matchups as they begin to resurface.
! I am sure if I told you it was good, you wouldn’t be too surprised and you’d suspect Specs on Rain would be going to town, which isn’t incorrect at all. However, I’ve found even more steady success, especially against bulkier foes, with this set: Volcanion @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 152 HP / 252 SpA / 104 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Flamethrower
- Fire Spin
- Taunt
Speed outruns Ursaluna’s maxed out variant we occasionally see outside of TR and pretty much every Kingambit, special attack is maximized, and HP actually comes in clutch against a few EQs and Dragapult attacks.
The premise of the set is to take the already strong profile of Volcanion, who poses a threat as a special attacker, and make the most of it as a team supporter and in less ideal matchups for its offensive profile. You’re able to trap virtually anything on ladder stall right now, which comes into play the most against Blissey and Toxapex. You’re also able to disrupt pivoting around one STAB to bait another if you time Fire Spin nicely as a middleground. Taunt in general also helps prevent a couple of things.
Finally, Tera Fairy is a gigantic assist in the Walking Wake Sun matchup as you retain Water Absorb and can be immune to both STAB. Similar dynamic with Urshifu-Rapid, who cannot Surging Strike you and suddenly had CC resisted after you Terastallization. It also was great when Pao was allowed and still helps you walk physical Dragapult, take neutral damage from EQs, and even can flip the Roaring Moon and +2 Kingambit matchups as they begin to resurface.
Yeah lets not attack anyone I didn't attack you, if you continue your posts will be deleted.
I won't respond to any of your attacks regarding cognitive functions lol.
Team Preview doesn't solve the unpredictability and unknown Terastalizations of all 6 mons you know this right?
Using tera is a waiting game where you weigh out all your options and pull out your trump card, there's no assessing anything until the opposition decides to reveal their tera.
"Risk Management" LOL
The factor is just not unpredictability, it's also powering your type by 1.5 and having the ability to use a 80 Base move + newly acquired stab also with items for example it can get removed, there's 0 way to stop a mon from teraing. Teras brokenness =/= just unpredictability.
Fringe example to illustrate: the opposing DD Bax wants to Tera Ground/Dragon in order to OHKO Garg and now get damaged by salt cure. But you have an ice shard user that would revenge kill it and shatter your opponents' wincon.
Therefore you effectively aren't letting him Tera.
There is a way to prevent your opponent from Tera, by properly deploying your ressources and you can include it in your gameplan.
How is pokemon not a risk management game?
Apologies for the insults. Was very childish and sad from me.
Of course there's ways of preventing the opposition from teraing but it's usually from an offensive tera perspective right? Like say something like Kingambit teraing dark it doesn't change much if you have no switching and you opposition has Close Combat on Great Tusk. My point is that there's no drawbacks outside of things like items which might be a one time use or usually has something attached to it like Choice Band being a 1.5x boost but cant change moves.
I think it's absolutely part of the risk management game, there's always risk in mons but tera is probably the biggest risk management mechanic of all time because it changes the dynamic of a game you think you might be winning by using it has a trump card / last resort option.
And you're good, thanks for apologizing.
I see your perspective but I'm responding to initially what you were saying about anti-tera users not having much to argue.
I could see it working well with Sneaseler on a hazard stack core like Gholdengo + Ting-Lu. It can serve as an emergency check to speed boosting sweepers + weaken Sneaselers checks so it can sweep later. That being said, I think I'd rather use other Pokemon with Sneaseler like Dragapult since that can cover its blindspots a bit better imo.
I intend to vote ban on, but it’s pretty close. Here is my reasoning from yesterday’s post
Didn't you vote Do Not Ban on Volcarona, like less than a week ago? I understand Volcarona is worthy of being voted on or discussed, but I am concerned about what could have changed your opinion in this short time frame? I understand your voting on Banning Volcarona in the next vote, what I am asking is: Can you explain your reasoning for voting Do Not Ban? Did you not truly mean it when you voted that?
Leaf blade missed!
I actually lost to it once, not proud of that. BUT, it doesn't ohko torn-t with ice spinner (I have a team with torn btw). I can't ohko corv at +1, pex at +1, defensive pelipper at +1, amoonguss at +1, gholdengo at +1. Lilligant-h is too frail and sometimes it's power is a little lacking. Lilligant-h is great against teams that lack a good answer into it like an unaware, a bulky wall, or something that outspeeds it at +1. Also, 88% acc (wide lens) is not good and you can lose a game because you missed an attack.
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I think you’re just unlucky.
Plus, the fun of using Hisuigant is knowing that the best laid sweep is still in the hands of Lady Luck. You’re committing yourself to gamble. That to me is fun, and the rewards are actually worth it because of how much damage is done.
And if you don’t like hustle, it’s definitely very good on Sun, where it doesn’t even run hustle.
unlucky? yeah kinda. also I'm def not a fan of hustle (unless it's hone claws durant)
Not speaking for finch here, but this is an interesting phenomenon I've noticed with SV OU, where certain Pokemon are seen as broken one day and "meh" the next. There was a long period where Garg was seen as OP, to "meh", to OP again. Same w/ Dual Screens. Early in SV's meta, I think most players thought screens were OP, but it fell off due to players realizing Grimm was exploitable. Currently, it's seen as OP again, though again, whether it's a fad or not is debatable. We saw the same with Walking Wake Sun back when that was released, where it was dominating the ladder. However, over time, players left the hype train and began using other playstyles again. There are so many other Pokemon this applies to like Gholdengo, Pult, Gambit, etc. which is interesting to observe
Sure, I didn’t use Volcarona much at all prior to the initial vote on it as we had less than 4 days and 2 of them were marred by Regieleki: the shitshow. I briefly used an old-metagame set and I faced a few, but my team was forced to overcompensate for everything else and I just wasn’t having a good time overall regardless of Volcarona or not.
Since then, I’ve gotten a chance to try out Tera Water Volcarona, which does an awesome job at covering Heatran while still covering old checks like Skeledirge. It also provides a big resistance to Urshifu Aqua Jet and helps you beat opposing Volcarona even.
Suddenly Volcarona went from being an afterthought to being able to handpick its own counterplay again, which a slew of councilmen posted concerns about this week. I hope this helps explain why I changed my opinion. The metagame has shifted and I got more experience as I continue to play as much as I can to have an informed perspective.
If I was to use Lilligant-h, and I won't because I hate hustle, it would probably be the following set:
Lilligant-Hisui @ Life Orb
Ability: Hustle
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Victory Dance
- Close Combat
- Tera Blast
- Ice Spinner
Why LO over wide lens? Because if you're feeling lucky enough to gamble with hustle then just go all the way lol. LO also gets you some key kills, some of which you mentioned cannot be done with Wide lens.
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Lilligant-Hisui Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 343-406 (85.9 - 101.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Tera Ground Lilligant-Hisui Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 351-416 (115.4 - 136.8%)
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Lilligant-Hisui Ice Spinner vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 398-468 (92.1 - 108.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Tera Ground Lilligant-Hisui Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 491-580 (129.8 - 153.4%)
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Lilligant-Hisui Ice Spinner vs. 248 HP / 28 Def Zapdos: 486-572 (126.8 - 149.3%)
I saw vd/cc/tera ghost/sleep powder earlier and I think that's cool too but I would get mad enough missing sleep powder/hitting and getting only 1 turn of sleep.
I think Garg kinda lost in Home, it eating your Tera is much more consequential with all the crazy offensive threats around. still valuable but much less splashable
Seconding this, absolutely go Life Orb, Wide Lens is cowardice.
If you’re like me (read: insane) and using Tera Grass, also go Adamant. Trust me, the increased power behind Leaf Blade is absolutely necessary. But with it you secure critical ranges like:
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Hustle Tera Grass Lilligant-Hisui Leaf Blade vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 282-333 (89.5 - 105.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
(Defensive is kind of a lost cause, tragically)
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Hustle Tera Grass Lilligant-Hisui Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Unaware Skeledirge: 181-213 (44 - 51.8%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Hustle Tera Grass Lilligant-Hisui Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 291-343 (95.7 - 112.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
and so on and so forth. Mon is strong as fuck.
OK I was mid on it but Sneasler needs to go.
In this match, I timed a tera well and was in a position to take out 2-3 mons. A poorly time sweep was an immediate loss. It’s an entirely uncompetitive move.
Right now if you run Sneasler/Shifu HO you can just overwhelm your opponent with status and tera
I will say Psyspam Tera Psychic sneasler is crazy heat though.
In this match, I timed a tera well and was in a position to take out 2-3 mons. A poorly time sweep was an immediate loss. It’s an entirely uncompetitive move.
Right now if you run Sneasler/Shifu HO you can just overwhelm your opponent with status and tera
I will say Psyspam Tera Psychic sneasler is crazy heat though.
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I think Garg will eventually find a place again near the top. Even with a bad natural typing, you still have to respect its ability to switch into anything neutral or resisted. It's not going to be the A+/S tier threat it was earlier in S/V, but at the same time?
It's not really a pokemon you can simply ignore, and assume won't Tera if it needs to, either.
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Giving u the benefit of the doubt here
It's not particularly hard to discern if Lando is Scarf or not even if it runs Rocks turn 1. Ability trigger order is one, if Intimidate triggers before other abilities when it's not supposed to it gives away that Landorus T is faster than it usually is. Landorus-Therian usually runs Leftovers or RH, if it takes any chip and doesn't get Lefties healing nor RH chip from say a stray U-turn, then you know something is up, and quite frankly Scarf is usually it's third best viable item. If you have a Great Tusk and Landorus-Therian is avoiding switching into it even if it's revealed to not have Spinner, it's probably because it's afraid to lose its Scarf from Knock Off. Also of course, the biggest bet opportunity cost. Scarf Lando plays completely different than bulky Lando, if your opponent is playing Lando like Scarf Lando at some point your gonna recognize it. Even if you have not been able to realise Lando is Scarf, If your opponent is running Scarf offensive Lando-T, then you have to sacrifice having the defensive utility that Lando T has. It can't switch into things nearly as much. It's a fair trade off. Comparing that to Terastilization is pretty crazy, because good Tera users don't have opportunity costs, not really, because the turn they change is usually so impactful, whatever perceived drawbacks of losing the typing is heavily outclassed by the potentially game changing benefits. No match between two high level players is going to go down to an unexpected Scarf Lando in a tour, it can be predicted if you know what to look for and running it comes with real drawbacks. Tera is just not comparable.
the second chatgpt created post ive seen this week
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