All of the members of the Gothita, Foongus, and Wooper lines are listed separately, so I don't think that's the case. It's probably just an oversight.
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Scalemons
- Thread starter asterat
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Magikarp is too damn fast now. Scarf it.
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Magikarp does not get 165 special attack. Look at it's stats correctly it has 165 defense not 165 SpA! and it won't go far anyway even with 165 SpA, hydro pump is it's only move to use. And why, when there is crazy special attackers like abra and solosis.
I realize now that spreadsheets are hard to read on smartphones. Edited out.
Still, Magikarp can now get TWO Flails in before it dies (or, better, a Tackle-Flail combo.)
This meta is fun to "explore": tons of new threats, waiting to be discovered.
So I'm guessing that nobody's going to be using pseudo-legendaries anymore?
So I'm guessing that nobody's going to be using pseudo-legendaries anymore?
However those stats are outclassed by many other pokemon, Darmanitan has 175 attack and 119 speed, and with all the bulk in the metagame, pichu isn't that much of a threat.
Legendaries are still useful, but pokemon like Garchomp and Dragonite are weak compared to threats in the metagame. Kyogre is still deadly, with specs in rain it can do serious damage even if it was nerfed in this metagame, so as Deoxys-A who is allowed in this metagame also and remained unchanged.
Ok this is a problem I am looking for help with: everything is too bulky. What can I do? My current idea is too ban HP investment, although that wouldn't help all that much with certain defensive pokemon.
Any ideas?
Or some sort of equation could be run through the spreadsheet killing excessively bulky stuff.
Any ideas?
Or some sort of equation could be run through the spreadsheet killing excessively bulky stuff.
Sorry for double post but here's a spreadsheet with 5/6 HP, and 9/10 Def and SpD (yes the numbers are completely arbitrary.) If you like this let me know.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XMo_43XXc9m26eEmtvilQexGWwlTR5M_OX7HRYASoMM/edit#gid=0
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XMo_43XXc9m26eEmtvilQexGWwlTR5M_OX7HRYASoMM/pubhtml
Under this mega mawile, kangashkhan, gengar, and medicham will be rebanned and the items will stay banned.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XMo_43XXc9m26eEmtvilQexGWwlTR5M_OX7HRYASoMM/pubhtml
Under this mega mawile, kangashkhan, gengar, and medicham will be rebanned and the items will stay banned.
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MAMP
MAMP!
Asterat is just mad because I 6-0'd him with a stall team: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/joimslab-scalemons-438
In his defense, anyone who thinks switching between regenerators 16 turns in a row is fun is probably the devil.
maybe consider changing the bst of everything from 600 to 450 or so? hp scales differently from other stats, so simply doing this reduces the bulk of everything
How about instead of banning Pure Power, you just compensate for it? I hate the idea of losing out on being able to use my 2nd favorite Pokemon, since it gets no other ability (Medicham).
Just multiply attack by .65, AFTER SCALING, for any Pokemon with Huge/Pure Power.
Just multiply attack by .65, AFTER SCALING, for any Pokemon with Huge/Pure Power.
Pikachuun
the entire waruda machine
There's always telepathy :>
MAMP
MAMP!
Tbh, I don't think editing the formula is the best way to go about it. Imo, if stall mons are found to be broken, just ban them, simple as that. That being said, I don't really think stall is particularly broken; I think I would have lost that game against Asterat if not for the crit on his Kyogre. Let the meta develop more before deciding to do something like this.
Here is another battle I played against toxicroaker using the same team in which I was almost swept by a Chatot: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/joimslab-scalemons-440
Also, I noticed something odd in this battle, his Bronzor only lost 6% every turn to burn. Is something wrong there?
Here is another battle I played against toxicroaker using the same team in which I was almost swept by a Chatot: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/joimslab-scalemons-440
Also, I noticed something odd in this battle, his Bronzor only lost 6% every turn to burn. Is something wrong there?
Monte Cristo
Banned deucer.
Heatproof cuts burn to 6% I think
MAMP
MAMP!
Oh, I didn't even think of Heatproof, that's it.
Solutions I can think of:
1. Unban Huge Power, Pure Power, Thick Club, etc.
2. Ban Unaware, Regenerator, Prankster, etc.
3. Ban specific 'mons
4. Scale down 'mons down to a lower BST
5. Do nothing
I'm no mathematician, but I don't think a BST shift would fix the problem of bulkiness. As far as I can comprehend, if you equally change all Pokemon's stats, it would not affect how bulky the Pokemon is, in relation to other Pokemon.
You would have to change the algorithm itself to change the balance of bulk.
I think the root of the problem is that in regular meta, offensive Pokemon generally have higher BSTs than defensive ones. Look at a few premier defensive Pokemon, from various generations:
- Skarmory -- 465 BST
- Blissey -- 540 BST
- Ferrothorn -- 489 BST
- Suicune -- 580 BST
- Hippowdon -- 525 BST
Now some premier offensive ones:
- Salamence -- 600 BST
- Tyranitar -- 600 BST
- Garchomp -- 600 BST
See the pattern? The discrepancy even effects our evaluation of Pokemon. 100s in the defenses is "pretty great." I mean Jirachi is a bulky pokemon is it not?
But 100s in the offenses? Not nearly enough. Flygon wishes 100 attack were enough to be relevant.
Thus the real solution is to change the algorithm so that the attack stats are scaled slightly upwards, while defense stats are scaled slightly downwards, simply because 1 point of defense is literally worth more than 1 point of offense.
You would have to change the algorithm itself to change the balance of bulk.
I think the root of the problem is that in regular meta, offensive Pokemon generally have higher BSTs than defensive ones. Look at a few premier defensive Pokemon, from various generations:
- Skarmory -- 465 BST
- Blissey -- 540 BST
- Ferrothorn -- 489 BST
- Suicune -- 580 BST
- Hippowdon -- 525 BST
Now some premier offensive ones:
- Salamence -- 600 BST
- Tyranitar -- 600 BST
- Garchomp -- 600 BST
See the pattern? The discrepancy even effects our evaluation of Pokemon. 100s in the defenses is "pretty great." I mean Jirachi is a bulky pokemon is it not?
But 100s in the offenses? Not nearly enough. Flygon wishes 100 attack were enough to be relevant.
Thus the real solution is to change the algorithm so that the attack stats are scaled slightly upwards, while defense stats are scaled slightly downwards, simply because 1 point of defense is literally worth more than 1 point of offense.
Bulk is defined by 2 stats and offense by 1, Hp and Def/SpD vs At/SpA (speed makes an offensive mon succeed also but doesn't contribute to power at all so it doesn't matter here), so an offense stat of 130 (Machamp's Attack just cuz) and a Special defense stat of 85 working with HP (90), basically gives (Machamp) an offense of 130 and a special defense of 175.
Does that make sense or not? :/
To use another example involving two mons, the full offense of Tyranitar is 134 At while the full defense of Hippowdon is 226 (108+118).
Technician boosts Scizor's effective attack, Huge Power boosts Azumarill's. Notice no one uses non-Techinician and non-Huge Power variations for those Pokemon, certainly not in offensive ways. They are definitely the exceptions to the rule.
No, you don't just add up both hp and defenses. the amount of damage you take depends on the defenses. So like you take 20 damage, well it depends on your hp number how much percantage damage is done so like 25/125 = 20 percent. For Example, shedinja with 1/45/30 defenses. You are saying you add them up so... shedinja has 46 physical defense, so can it take a shadow sneak from level 1 ralts?
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