Resource RU Viability Ranking

[Molk]

By the way, i'd just like to let everyone know that there are going to be some significant updates to the ranks (and possibly a new thread because the OP of the current one no longer plays RU) in the next few days, the council is working on making the rankings a little bit more accurate/strict, and once we're happy with what we have we'll post the changes either here or in an entirely new thread for you guys to discuss :).

Keep in mind that all nominations previously made and noms made after this post will be considered for the new ranks.

 

[Pearl]

Nominations time!

General nominations that (most) people agree with:

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B -> B+

Qwilfish faces a lot of competition from Omastar, Accelgor, Kricketune and Utility Cobalion for the lead slot, but it has a lot of things going for it at the moment, including the second fastest Taunt, Toxic Spikes, Explosion and Scald. The later might seem a ridiculous option on a Pokemon whose Attack is higher than Special Attack, but it allows Qwilfish to win against Rhyperior, fish (pun not intended) for a burn on things like Cobalion and Doublade, scare Gligar away without having to use Explosion and some other things probably. Its defensive set, while inferior to what it was in the past, still puts some Pokemon in check, including Swords Dance Cobalion and Hitmonlee while reliably setting up (Toxic Spikes) throughout the game.

C+ -> B

This is like the 4th time someone is making this nomination.

B- -> B

Substitute + Leech Seed stuff is pretty much outdated and outclassed at this point. However, its offensive set allows it to put a lot of threats offense usually struggles killing without losing something in check (examples being Virizion, Druddigon, Shiftry and Sharpedo) and provide support through Tailwind, U-turn, Encore, luring Doublade with Shadow Ball, or whatever else you choose to run besides STABs. Of course it doesn't pack the power, but good typing along with an even better Speed tier and a good amount of supportive options mean it's in a decent spot at the moment (good enough to be higher than B- in my opinion)

B -> C+

Sort of needs to be cleaned out on the rankings, since while it probably has a niche, it's just not enough to compete with things like Lanturn, Granbull and Togetic, which have more solid niches. Also, the existence better offensive Grass-types such as Virizion, Shiftry, Rotom-C and Whimsicott to an extend leave it in a really sticky situation in the RU metagame. Maybe Mega Sceptile or even just Flying Gem will make it better for him.

C- -> C / C+

I feel like this one could be pushed even further. It's a godsend to dedicated Stall teams, as it doesn't get instantly destroyed by Hidden Power Grass or any other kind of things people use to lure Rhyperior.

Controversial nominations of my own (or at the request of someone else):

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A+ -> S

I know it's just been pushed to A+ and that I probably don't have a lot of back up for this one. However, it's pretty much everywhere, wins against pretty much every common suicide lead through Taunt, can lure stuff with Calm Mind and its Swords Dance set has like 3 different variants. I'll just quote my Cobalion nomination to A+, since nothing has changed since then.

I have a lot of support for this one, and I think it is metagame defining enough to be bumped up. It is sort of versatile, being able to run a set with Taunt, Stealth Rock and Volt Switch, which has a stellar match up against a lot of common Pokemon (Gligar can't Defog against it, Kricketune and Omastar can't set their hazards up, Accelgor only gets one layer of Spikes, Doublade can't set up Swords Dance on it etc), a Swords Dance set of its own with either Substitute or Taunt (or take a more offensive approach, although Virizion and other Pokemon are probably better for that one) and a Calm Mind set to lure Doublade, Gligar and other common switches for something else to sweep. It sits at a good Speed tier, can tank Physical hits really well thanks to its excellent Defense stat and typing (even some super effective ones in a pinch) and is the pivot of choice for a lot of teams.

A -> A-

Fine, this one is not bad per say, and I could indeed see it in A rank, except for this one thing. It's. so. damn. unreliable. I know this shouldn't be a reason to rank something, and Moltres is sitting at A+ when its main STAB moves have 70% and 80% accuracy respectively. However, Moltres has way more good things going out for it, including a decent defensive typing, good synergy with Pursuit trappers, more sustain, is not so one dimentional and so on. Durant is squishy, forced to set up, would like to run like 3 coverage moves on the forth slot and I just had this game where my opponent's Durant missed two moves in a row, so I'm probably being biased towards this one.

B+ -> A-

It is pretty much the premier Pursuit trapper at the moment, puts 4/5 of the S rank in check (and the 5th one is arguably the most controversial S ranked Pokemon) and isn't the hardest Pokemon to fit on a team due to having only one weakness. It's had a lot of support for B+ and now that the metagame is more stable (and will stay stable for a couple months) I think that this could be pushed up. Infiltrator is a plus too.

B- -> B

I know this one has just been move down, but, in my opinion, is not /that/ bad, due to some perks over its main competitor, Registeel, which include a Ground-type immunity, which means it can't be worn down through Spikes nor trapped by Dugtrio, making it a good option for dedicated stall teams. Dark-type weakness hurts it a lot though, so it's completely understandable if it doesn't move up (because Molk doesn't like it!)

Random Pokemon I've messed around with and some feedback on them:

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C -> C+

I like to call this one "Machamp with wings". A move with 100% Confusion chance, Substitute, Encore and a main STAB with 140 base power is really solid on paper, and it hasn't disappointed me much on practice either. It can come in on almost anything trying to get Stealth Rock up, Doublade when you're sure it doesn't go for Iron Head, slower Pokemon trying to sweep and some other Pokemon probably.

Unranked -> D / C-

Has enough of a niche to be worth ranking. Rock Polish with Wood Hammer, Earthquake and Stone Edge cleans like a charm against your standard offensive team. It is also a decent pivot, switching in against Rhyperior, Cobalion, Rotom-Moe and getting Stealth Rock up, although there are a lot of Pokemon able to do that.

Unranked -> Garbo

Sorry bro, being outclassed by Pelipper must hurt a lot. It sort of comes close though, an offensive Defog user with a strong STAB move and Roost looks really good on paper. However, the fact it can't switch into anything and it's Special Attack make it miss on important KOs mean it sucks.

B -> B

Calm Mind + 3 Attacks is solid as a cleaner or simply for punching holes through things. Draining Kiss allows it to get out of many sticky situations too. However, I'll just wait for ORAS Move Tutors to nominate this one up, unless it gets quickbanned or doesn't receive Knock Off and Fire Punch.

C- -> C- / C

Underrated. Being immune to 3 strong types and having such an easy-to-spam STAB move along with a crucial Speed tier is sort of neat. Substitute + Pain Split is a good win condition for stall teams that rely on Toxic (Spikes). I could see it moving up potentially, but I'm not putting my hands on the fire for it either.

B- -> B-

Decent Pokemon, but faces way too much competition from other things, and controlling hazards is easier thanks to Defog, so Magic Bounce isn't really that godly anymore, unless you're using it along with Combusken.

I think this is all for now.

 

[Bouff]

Well, if we're gonna make the last changes for this thread then here's my picks:

To C+: I know I made this nom a while back, but I've been using it a lot lately and it's actually pretty good. The Sub Swords Dance set is a really good thing to have due to the overall prevalence of mons commonly found on stall, such as Alomomola, Amoonguss, Aromatisse (although its Sub gets broken), Weezing if it manages to avoid the burn / poison, since it has the bulk to switch in on their attacks, and set up on them. Not only that, but it also isn't complete dead-weight vs offense, due to its ability to just break early-game thanks to CB Reckless, which is really scary coming off a base 110 Attack.

I would like it to be higher in all honesty, but with the prevalence of Spiritomb and Golbat, as well as the fact that it's slow as shit doesn't make its life too easy.

To B+: Speaking of Golbat, I think it's pretty good at the moment. It has surprisingly high defensive bulk along with a decent typing, but what really sells it for me is access to Infiltrator. Basically, it puts Sub set-up sweepers such as the aformentioned Bouff, SubBU Braviary, and /especially/ SubCm Meloetta on a timer, which is pretty big considering Stall teams all have a huge problem with them. Not only that, but it's also a really good Defogger that can be used over Gligar due to its ability to actually put pressure on Stall with Toxic, Super Fang, etc. and isn't terrible vs offense either as it serves as a good answer to the likes of Virizion (if you don't let it set up an SD of course), Hitmonlee, etc. Really dunno why it isn't higher.

I agree with all of Pearl's noms, but there is one that I wanted to expand upon;

To C+: It's actually a really good fit for stall teams for reasons Pearl stated, as well as the fact that it checks the likes of Moltres, Delphox, Exploud, and non CM variants of Meloetta much much easier than Rhyperior could ever dream of. Granted, it can get worn down with relative ease but Rhyperior has that same problem, and Wish support is a must on any defensively oriented team in the current metagame, so it's not that big of a deal.

 

[Lemonade]

By the way, i'd just like to let everyone know that there are going to be some significant updates to the ranks (and possibly a new thread because the OP of the current one no longer plays RU) in the next few days, the council is working on making the rankings a little bit more accurate/strict, and once we're happy with what we have we'll post the changes either here or in an entirely new thread for you guys to discuss :).

Keep in mind that all nominations previously made and noms made after this post will be considered for the new ranks.

Can S please be removed and A be the highest because HOW is S higher than A smfh japan


For actual content in this post, I'll just back Spiritomb because I have a lot of games on it (both before and after the last suspect). I used it on Omastar Spike Stacking team and prefer it to Doublade because Tomb doesn't really mind Knock Off and pretty much doesn't lose to spinners even if it takes prior damage. Foul Play, Sucker, and Pursuit are all v strong + WoW in the last slot, you don't really need other moves but you could even go mixed if you want because of equal Attack and SpA stats and no need for speed.

 

[Molk]

Honestly i'm a little bit ehhhhh on Golbat at the moment. It *definitely* has its uses as an alternative to Gligar, Infiltrator abuser, and boon to stall in general. But i think the metagame is a little bit unkind to it.

As most of us already know, the departure of Zoroark and Yanmega has made Psychic-types in general significantly more common and threatening. Given Golbat is a Poison-type, this is quite a problem. Pokemon that are on the rise such as Choice Specs Meloetta, Delphox, Slowking, and Reuniclus can easily threaten it and force it out.

In general, the metagame seems slightly unkind to Golbat imo. Looking at the current S rank: Golbat struggles against pretty much every Pokemon in it. Meloetta and Delphox are pressuring Golbat quite a bit. Rhyperior wins 1v1 against Golbat and often gets to keep its Stealth Rock up unless the Golbat user predicts correctly literally every time, and Doublade just uses Golbat as absolute set up bait, meaning that even if Golbat gets the Defog off the opponent will have to deal with a +2 sword staring them in the face. Quite a few of the other Pokemon in the higher ranks trouble Golbat too (looking at you Jolteon, Rotom, Slowking, and Reuniclus).

Aside from the metagame being a little bit anti Golbat at the moment, i feel like it's still overall inferior to Gligar in the defogging role thanks to one thing: its weakness to Stealth Rock. To remove Stealth Rock from the field, Golbat has to sacrifice 25% of its health, and will often be forced to Roost afterwards, making it quite vulnerable to offensive pressure. When fighting against a good player, Golbat might even be repeatedly forced out and back into Stealth Rock before it can remove them, wearing it down quite quickly (getting met on a double switch by Delphox/Melo/Jolteon, etc can really take its toll over time). Gligar doesn't have nearly as much of a problem with this thanks to its neutrality to Stealth Rock, and neither do fellow defog users Shiftry and Skuntank. It's also notable that Gligar finds it very hard to lose against the most common Stealth Rock setter: Rhyperior 1v1, while Golbat has a VERY poor matchup against it.

Lastly, 4mss. Golbat really wishes it could run a ton of its utility moves at once: it has all of Brave Bird, Super Fang, Toxic, Taunt, Defog, Roost, U-turn, and Whirlwind to choose from. Sadly, it simply doesn't have all the moveslots to fit all of the moves it needs at once: especially since Defog and Roost are pretty much givens.

TL;DR I don't think Golbat is a bad Pokemon at all: it's perfectly viable and has some reasoon solid uses. But the points i listed above make me a bit shaky on moving it up to B+

 

[g]

My thoughts on Pearl's nomination because it is easier then to make mine

B -> B+

As people already said Qwilfish faces quite some competition from other leads mostly for the fact that you have to run a Stealth Rock user of some sort alongside it. While that is true I think that its access to two fantastic moves in Taunt and Toxic Spikes is the real deal here because it allows it to stop any Defog user bar swanna from simply removing entry hazards, a thing other lead Pokémon would really like to be able to do (Omastar can stop Gligar, ok, but go calc how much Specially Defensive Golbat takes from Ice Beam lol) and to get fantastic residual damage on offensive teams meaning they will be more prone to priority and to something like Doublade later in the game. Explosion and Destiny Bond are other good moves Qwilfish can potentially run, the former is another way to get good momentum against Rapid Spin users and preventing them for doing its job(even tho I wouldn't risk staying in on Hitmonlee who might be jolly) and the latter can take can be used as a surprise way to take out something trying to kill that 1% Qwilfish sit there.
As Pearl said the defensive set might be cool too with its ability to check common shit like Hitmonlee and Doublade somethat and disrupt opponents with Taunt, Thunder Wave, Scald, and such but I haven't used it myself in a long time.
Definitely B+ Pokemon.

C+ -> B

This is like the 4th time someone is making this nomination.

Exactly. B- at worst
Leavanny for D

B- -> B

This Pokemon has a lot going for it in its great typing both defensively and offensively against top tier threats and in it's fantastic speed, Prankster, and support movepool (Encore, Taunt, U-Turn, Stun Spore, Magic Coat). But I feel like its paltry stats in general and modest offensive capabilities mean that it is not worth anything more than B (which it deserves to go, obviously).

B -> C+

I have already made a post about this some pages ago.
Keep going down to oblivion.

C- -> C / C+

I think I have already made a post about this but I think a little bump is OK for this guy and seeing that stuff in C- is more niche than this makes me thing that C is a better placement probably.

A+ -> S

I can't say I completely agree with you on this but the fact that it has a great matchup against a lot of Pokemon in the metagame and can somewhat overcome its counters makes this nomination legit to say the least but i'd like to see some other people's opinion too.

A -> A-

I can support you on saying that this Pokemon is damn unreliable and/or doesn't really hit that incredibly hard as a Choice Band wallbreaker because of moves Base Power but as this Pokémon can set up on a lot of walls with ease (gligar, aromatisse, amoonguss,Cress, registeel), especially with lum, and then sweep in this Psychic type filled metagame (OK you don't have X scissor most of the time as Iron Head, Crunch, and Superpower is standard but Crunch hits them damn hard) makes this Pokemon A- worthy at worst.

B+ -> A-

Not much to say, best spinblocker in the tier, pursuits everything and fucks with Meloetta + has strong priority and beats doublade (speed creep guys) making it a top notch offensive utility Pokemon.

B- -> B

Ground immunity is cool and all (best Abomasnow switch in in the meta) and Bronzing is a very reliable SR setter but it is big Doublade fodder (unless you run the based Hypnosis) and forces you to cut on Psychic types if you choose to use balance, which sucks in my opinion. Stay B- :).

C -> C+

gay pokemon probably better than C buy I don't have much experience :/

Unranked -> D / C-

Only used an offensive SR set with attack to 2hko Doublade with St and it hasn't disappointed as a Rhyperior switch in. Impressive bulk let's it take a reckless HJK from full lol.

SWANNA

B -> B

Nice nom bro.

C- -> C

The Choice Specs set that started getting some use last gen looks cool with Ghost being such a good STAB to have this generation but Spiritomb/Doublade popularity really hamper its viability :/

B- -> B-

When almost any entry hazards setter can hit you for super effective damage being a Magic Bounce user is probably very difficult.

While writing I forgot the nomination I had to make

 

[MQJinx]

Nominating Cacturne for C+ Rank. As an SD sweeper, what this offers over Shiftry is a Scald immunity and Fighting-type coverage, allowing it to come in on bulky waters like Alomomola, and it also hits harder at the cost of speed. It can also run a spikes set with Destiny Bond to force switches and allow more chances of spikestacking.

 

[EonX]

I just want to comment on Cobalion really quick as I feel I'm really experienced with most of its sets:

So, Cobalion is versatile, no doubt about it. However, Cobalion's issues lie in its ability to switch into top level threats with reliability and still beat them. Obviously, it's not safely switching into Delphox or Moltres any time soon. We shouldn't expect that from a Steel-type. However, as an offensive Steel-type, it has to deal with a lot of competition from Doublade, which can double as a spinblocker and tank for many teams. While Cobalion can sweep and tank hits, it has a hard time doing this with a singular set. The other big issue Cobalion has is with Doublade itself. The fact Cobalion runs a CM set in the first place shows you how poor of a matchup it has vs. Doublade. Granted, CM is a legit set, but the fact you would consider forgoing SD for CM to sweep just to get around Doublade tells you how badly Cobalion struggles vs. Doublade with an SD set.

Cobalion can also run a Support set that still has decent enough offensive presence to get by with thanks to STAB Close Combat. It's one of only two Steel-types to get Volt Switch (the other being Magneton) meaning that it can continuously use the move on predicted switch-ins to wear them down. Taunt is fantastic to stop opposing hazard leads and Defoggers, allowing it to be a great anti-lead for offensive teams as it also has access to Stealth Rock. While Cobalion is a fantastic Pokemon, its issues with Doublade and inability to safely switch into / deal with some top level threats (think Delphox, Moltres, Rhyperior, Meloetta, Slowking, and Hitmonlee) is a little too much for it to be S rank imo. Cobalion will do its job most of the time, but does require a little more support than a S rank mon to perform at its best imo.

 

[Punchshroom]

Nominating Cacturne for C+ Rank. As an SD sweeper, what this offers over Shiftry is a Scald immunity and Fighting-type coverage, allowing it to come in on bulky waters like Alomomola, and it also hits harder at the cost of speed. It can also run a spikes set with Destiny Bond to force switches and allow more chances of spikestacking.

You do realize that Shiftry also has Fighting coverage right, such as Low Kick and Focus Blast. It's just that Shiftry doesn't really have the moveslot for it unless it drops an important STAB move, and not having a reliable Dark move sucks hard for Cacturne, meaning Shiftry often outclasses Cacturne as a SD sweeper. Spikes stacking is the only thing Cacturne has going for it.

 

[Lovelace]

Nominating Zweilous for C. A versatile Pokemon that can run Choice Band for wall breaking, an offensive Eviolite set for bulky offense, or my personal favourite, a specially defensive rest talking set.

Zweilous @ Eviolite
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Tail
- Thunder Wave

Thanks to its unique typing and 348/393 special bulk, Zweilous is able to wall a number of offensive and defensive threats in the RU metagame such as Delphox, Amoongus and Slowking. He is able to shrug off both attacks and status, giving Zweilous many opportunities to switch in and parashuffle. In fact, Zweilous is often able to cripple multiple members of the opponent's team as the threat of his offensive set forces many switches. Zweilous pairs well with hazard setters such as Qwilfish as well as slow wall breakers such as Escavalier than can take advantage of the paralyzed opponents.

But much like the offensive sets, specially defensive Zweilous does suffer from unreliability. Reliance on RestTalk and Hustle Dragon Tail can create a lot of dead turns which may or may not be matched by the paralysis spread by Thunder Wave. In addition he is 2 or 3 hit KO by certain powerful special attacks such as Meloetta's Focus Blast or Moltres' Hurricane. Most of these attacks have low accuracy, giving Zweilous a chance to dodge for a 4-5 hit KO but that is another issue of reliability.

Plus: when Houndoom drops, who else will be here to save you?

 

[Molk]

New thread and ranking have been finalized, everything proposed here has been considered and might take place the next update

You can find the new thread here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ru-viability-ranking-v2.3516783/

locking!