[QC READY 0/3] Gothitelle

Bughouse

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Mega Gengar better watch the hell out. This shorty is the original rump shaker. No diggity.

[Pros]

<ul>
<li>SHADOW TAG</li>
<li>Just barely enough in stats and movepool to be threatening.</li>
<li>Has an offensive presence, unlike Wobbuffet.</li>
<li>Doesn't use up your one Mega Evolution, unlike Mega Gengar.</li>
<li>Also more immediately reliable than Gengar, since Gengar can't trap foes before it has Mega Evolved.</li>
</ul>

[Cons]

<ul>
<li>Pure Psychic-typing leaves it very weak to Dark-types and other Pursuit users.</li>
<li>Mega Gengar completely outclasses Gothitelle, once transformed.</li>
<li>No access to Trick, one of its few possible niches over Mega Gengar.</li>
</ul>

[Set Recommendations]

<p>Gothitelle @ Choice Specs / Life Orb<br />
Ability: Shadow Tag<br />
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe <br />
Timid / Modest Nature <br />
- Psychic / Psyshock<br />
- Thunderbolt<br />
- Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire<br />
- Grass Knot</p>

<p>Psychic is the preferred move since it hits harder on average, but Psyshock can be used if you especially need to remove Chansey or Blissey.</p>
<p>Thunderbolt will dispose of Skarmory and many Water-types.</p>
<p>Hidden Power Ice completes the pseudo-BoltBeam combination and hits Gliscor and Dragon-types hard, but Hidden Power Fire can be used for Scizor and Ferrothorn.</p>
<p>Grass Knot covers the Water/Ground-types Thunderbolt misses out on, as well as OHKOing Physical Wall Hippowdon and seriously denting Tyranitar when not in sand.</p>
<p>Timid is most useful with Choice Specs in order to outrun Adamant Breloom and Timid Magnezone (especially if running Hidden Power Fire). If using Life Orb, Modest is helpful to recoup the lost power from not using Specs, as long as your team doesn't care about things at that speed tier.</p>
<p>Use Gothitelle to remove the counters of a teammate, such as Hidden Power Ice eliminating Gliscor and freeing up Lucario's chance to sweep.</p>
<p>Also very potent on a Spikes stacking team, since you can trap and KO the opponent's Rapid Spin/Defog user.</p>

<p>Gothitelle @ Choice Scarf<br />
Ability: Shadow Tag<br />
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe <br />
Timid Nature <br />
- Psychic / Psyshock<br />
- Thunderbolt<br />
- Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire<br />
- Grass Knot</p>

<p>Choice Scarf Gothitelle plays similarly to Specs/LO in that it removes opposing counters.</p>
<p>But it preys on different threats. Trades hitting like a truck for being able to remove speedy sweepers.</p>
<p>Much less useful at trapping bulky pokemon, which is better done by the Specs/LO set.</p>
<p>However, Scarf Gothitelle outspeeds important positive-natured base 120 Pokemon or slower, such as Starmie, Gengar, and Alakazam.<p>
<p>Since Scarf Gothitelle is faster than Specs or LO, it tends to be more durable, since it should take fewer hits.</p>
<p>This means though, that the thing you are trying to trap may need to be weakened first.<p>

<p>Gothitelle @ Life Orb / Expert Belt<br />
Ability: Shadow Tag<br />
EVs: 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe <br />
Modest Nature <br />
- Psyshock / Psychic<br />
- Thunderbolt / Grass Knot<br />
- Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire<br />
- Thunder Wave</p>

<p>Spread designed to outspeed uninvested base 70s, notably Skarmory and Politoed.</p>
<p>Pick one of the sides on the attacks.</p>
<p>Life Orb goes with Psyshock, Thunderbolt, and Hidden Power Ice, so that you can cover Gliscor, Skarmory, and Blissey.</p>
<p>Expert Belt Gothitelle instead can specifically target Gastrodon, Hippowdon, Scizor, and Ferrothorn. On this set, Psychic is preferred to Psyshock in order to still hit Gliscor hard.</p>
<p>Thunder Wave acts as a general check to many fast threats.</p>
<p>Thunder Wave's slot can also be filled with Taunt, in order to stop Ferrothorn and Forretress from laying hazards, if you don't have Hidden Power Fire, and in order to threaten Chansey and Blissey more.</p>
<p>Other fillers include Dark Pulse to hit other Psychic-types and Aegislash and Trick Room to provide both Gothitelle and its teammates a potential Speed boost against an offensive team.</p>

<p>Gothitelle @ Leftovers<br />
Ability: Shadow Tag<br />
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe <br />
Bold Nature <br />
- Calm Mind<br />
- Psyshock<br />
- Rest<br />
- Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Fire / Reflect</p>

<p>Shadow Tag enables Gothitelle to set up freely on things that don't threaten it, including many supportive mons, such as Florges, Sylveon, Blissey, and Chansey.</p>
<p>Can't be unexpectedly Tricked or Phazed while setting up, either.</p>
<p>Rest is necessary to avoid losing to the very things you are setting up on.</p>
<p>Not having Sleep Talk won't matter, as long as you set up on the right things.</p>
<p>The choice of 4th move depends on what else you may want to beat, after you're set up. Ferrothorn, Scizor, and Skarmory are covered by Hidden Power Fire, though Hidden Power Fighting is essential for Tyranitar.</p>
<p>Reflect on the other hand may help ease set up against something like Gliscor or Chesnaught.</p>
<p>Partners well with special sweepers who appreciate the help getting past the aforementioned walls, such as Hydreigon or Starmie.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Countering is technically impossible in many cases, since only Ghosts and other Pokemon with Shadow Tag can switch out of Gothitelle in order to switch into their counter.</p>
<p>However, very threatened by U-turn and Pursuit trapping.</p>
<p>Common users of those moves, Scizor and Tyranitar are particularly threatening, though both may need to watch out for Hidden Power, though Hidden Power Fighting for Tyranitar is uncommon.</p>
<p>Chansey fears nothing from Gothitelle, not even a Choice Specs Psyshock.</p>
 
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Bughouse

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I would like to try to find a way to fit a Competitive set here, but Shadow Tag is obviously the real reason to use Gothitelle. Thoughts?

Also, I'm curious what people think about the BW Calm Mind set onsite? I've never used it, and on paper it looks pretty unreliable to me.
 

Bughouse

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OK I think this is now ready for QC. Bumping it back up to page 1, yo.
 

Colonel M

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I would mention how Shadow Tag allows Gothitelle to prevent being trapped by Mega Gengar. I feel this is pretty important since Gothitelle will always be slower than Gengar (unless it's a crazy situation like Gothitelle wearing Scarf and Mega Gengar has Sticky Web on its end of the field) and Gothitelle being able to respond by escaping helps the team out.

Furthermore, I would definitely consider the Calm Mind set. It is, put bluntly, very evil when pulled against the right Pokemon and Shadow Tag keeps the situation to Gothitelle's advantage.

~ Calm Mind
~ Psyshock
~ Rest
~ Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Fire / Reflect

252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe Bold.

Also Competitive is not really great on Gothitelle unless Shadow Tag as an ability gets banned somehow. Which I doubt will ever happen.
 

Bughouse

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Separate the Choice Scarf and Choice Specs please.
The problem is they carry the exact same moves... and the same EV Spread. Unless you recommend a different set/spread. This isn't exactly unprecedented on Smogon.
 
<p>Countering is technically impossible, since nothing can switch out of Gothitelle in order to switch into their counter.</p>

This isn't true; all Ghost types can switch out of Shadow Tag now.
 

Bughouse

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Thanks for reminding me of that, Alice. I'll fix that right now.
 

PK Gaming

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The problem is they carry the exact same moves... and the same EV Spread. Unless you recommend a different set/spread. This isn't exactly unprecedented on Smogon.
They play differently, hence the need for 2 seperate sets. The speed boost from Choice Scarf allows Gothitelle to actually revenge kill fast Pokemon, though it comes at the cost of power, making it harder to trap bulkier Pokemon. The Choice Specs set can murder whatever it's matched up against, making it ideal for removing sturdier Pokemon (like Hippowdon), but it's slow and not very durable. Basically, both sets have their uses on different teams.
 

dragonuser

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I really want to see Trick somewhere on both of the Choiced sets. I'd probably run something akin to the BW Choiced sets, with Grass Knot slashed in. With this change I'm questioning the utility of the all out attacker set with Thunder Wave, as it seems entirely outclassed by Mega Gengar and redundant with some of the Choiced sets. The choiced sets have the fact that they are Choiced going for them (even though Scarf Gothitelle is still slower than Timid 252 Mega Gar...) and the fact that they can trick walls. The non Choiced all out attacker set really seems to lack anything that makes it better to use than Mega Gengar. Actually, I am even starting to question the use of Choice Scarf, but I'd like to see the opinion of other QC members on that.

edit: oops silly me
 
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Bughouse

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Gothitelle does not have access to Trick pre-Pokebank, otherwise of course I would have included it.

As for the general utility of the sets what with Mega Gengar being so much better, I'll have to leave that to QC. What I do know is that Gothitelle is a not-awful alternative if you want to run Mega Lucario, etc.
 
I find Choice Scarf to be pretty weak and not fast enough to be worthwhile. Given Gothitelle's lackluster coverage, Hidden Power nerf, and mediocre typing, I think its safe to say to reject that set. Also, because Gothitelle isn't really that strong, it's setup bait to a gigantic amount of Pokemon out there, such as Kangaskhan, Aegislash, Tyranitar, Gyarados, Scizor, etc. I'm not a fan of it at all, especially since Trick isn't even available.

I'm inclined to keep Choice Specs/Life Orb and Calm Mind, though. Those are acceptable to me and they don't suck as much.
 
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