It honestly never occurred to me that Bug Buzz could be blocked with Soundproof. *facepalm*
My mind is officially blown.:happybrain:
Fully negating is way better than simply reducing damage! :D
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Project Mono-Type: Psychic
- Thread starter Run
- Start date
My mind is officially blown.:happybrain:
Fully negating is way better than simply reducing damage! :D
Mr. Mime comes close to death after a +1 Fire Blast. If it's a Drought team, Mr. Mime is hopeless.
Victini is the way to go. With heavy investment in special defense, it shurgs off +1 Bug Buzz no problem. In addition, Sun enhances Victini's signature V-create, which OHKOs offensive Volcarnoa with ease, even with minimal Atk investment.
I think Sableye would be problematic for our team, since it can wall Pure Psychic-types, like Reuniclus, Alakazam, and Mew. A Psychic Type with a powerful Dual STAB would be welcome to our team. Victini's V-create is one of them. Latios's Draco Meteor and Starmie's Hydro Pump also works.
As long as we fit Metagross or Jirachi into our team, we shouldn't have any problems with Tyranitar. We ought to add one of them, since Steel Typing brings so much crucial resistances to the table - it negates Bug, Ghost, and Dark weakness of Psychic-types for instance. Jirachi in particular is a solid answer to many threats, including Reuniclus, Tornadus, Latios, and Gengar.
Deoxys-S or Scarf Latios would most likely be a staple to serve as a crucial revenge-killer, particularly Dragon Types. They both do a relatively good job in dismantling Volt-Turn combos as well. Celebi does the latter well, too, as well as providing solid anti-Rain support.
Another notable advantage of mono-Psychic Type is that dangerous Fighting Types, particularly Terrakion, are effectively neutered by not being able to easily switch in and set-up. The only exception would be Scrafty, which has been uncommon lately.
Victini is the way to go. With heavy investment in special defense, it shurgs off +1 Bug Buzz no problem. In addition, Sun enhances Victini's signature V-create, which OHKOs offensive Volcarnoa with ease, even with minimal Atk investment.
I think Sableye would be problematic for our team, since it can wall Pure Psychic-types, like Reuniclus, Alakazam, and Mew. A Psychic Type with a powerful Dual STAB would be welcome to our team. Victini's V-create is one of them. Latios's Draco Meteor and Starmie's Hydro Pump also works.
As long as we fit Metagross or Jirachi into our team, we shouldn't have any problems with Tyranitar. We ought to add one of them, since Steel Typing brings so much crucial resistances to the table - it negates Bug, Ghost, and Dark weakness of Psychic-types for instance. Jirachi in particular is a solid answer to many threats, including Reuniclus, Tornadus, Latios, and Gengar.
Deoxys-S or Scarf Latios would most likely be a staple to serve as a crucial revenge-killer, particularly Dragon Types. They both do a relatively good job in dismantling Volt-Turn combos as well. Celebi does the latter well, too, as well as providing solid anti-Rain support.
Another notable advantage of mono-Psychic Type is that dangerous Fighting Types, particularly Terrakion, are effectively neutered by not being able to easily switch in and set-up. The only exception would be Scrafty, which has been uncommon lately.
Run
Poster of the Month
***updated second post***
sorry for the delay, was away for the holiday. Thank you for being so active over the last week and keeping this thread thriving. The discussion here is really great, and I'm really starting to see some people thinking outside the box which is exactly what Project Mono-Type is all about!
We now want to begin discussion on the team type to use. We may ultimately pick 2 or 3 different teams with varying team types because of Psychics diversity.
Instead of trying to pick the best team style to use, lets decide what will likely not work or will at least have the most trouble successfully operating in the current OU environment.
sorry for the delay, was away for the holiday. Thank you for being so active over the last week and keeping this thread thriving. The discussion here is really great, and I'm really starting to see some people thinking outside the box which is exactly what Project Mono-Type is all about!
We now want to begin discussion on the team type to use. We may ultimately pick 2 or 3 different teams with varying team types because of Psychics diversity.
Instead of trying to pick the best team style to use, lets decide what will likely not work or will at least have the most trouble successfully operating in the current OU environment.
Even then, Scrafty wants to be careful on what it switches in on, since Focus Blast, HP Fighting, Iron Head, Superpower, etc. is flying around everywhere. Even with that 65/115/155 bulk, it's still not going to appreciate, let's say, a Focus Blast from LO Alakazam or a Drain Punch from Gallade, who can Bulk Up alongside it, grab a Justified Boost and KO, or Medicham, who doesn't appreciate +1 HJK but forces Scrafty out with its own.
The fact that we can use Deoxys-S makes a HO team a very tempting prospect. Medicham can boost with Agility, outspeed a buttfuck ton of things, then sweep with Psycho Cut/HJK/whatever, Gallade can do something similar with CC/Psycho Cut/Shadow Sneak/Swords Dance, Alakazam might even be able to get to +2 with Calm Mind, etc.
However, now that I think about it, HO will have troubles with strong priority (AKA Sucker Punch and Scizor's Bullet Punch, certain ExtremeSpeeds).
I think a Bulky offense or even stall might be best, although I'm not sure of who is a good phazer or Sableye killer.
Metagross can handle Bullet Punches and and Extremespeeds, and most Sucker Punches (except something like Choice Banded Absol's, a 2HKO, and who gets obliterated in return with Meteor Mash, Bullet Punch, Splash, or a gentle breeze).
I was running some calcs yesterday, and while Mr. Mime is a perfect switch-in to Bug Buzzes, it cannot deal with boosted fire attacks. It's Base HP is Zubat-level...
I was running some calcs yesterday, and while Mr. Mime is a perfect switch-in to Bug Buzzes, it cannot deal with boosted fire attacks. It's Base HP is Zubat-level...
No matter which style we decide to go with, Sableye is a huge problem. It's immune to the Psychic + Fighting combo, and while its stats are pretty poor, it's still bulky enough to take random shadow balls, and it isn't complete setup fodder due to Taunt and Foul Play.
Xatu isn't fodder for it, due to that great physical bulk, potential dual screens and Magic Bounce, but at the same time, Xatu can't do much back other than maybe annoy it with Night Shade and set screens. Espeon gets 2HKOed by Foul Play unless it's 0 Atk IV 252 bold or behind screens or boosted or something, but it can't set up against Sableye unless something Baton Passes it defense or gives it Reflect (or burns Sableye). The physical attackers get burned, while the special ones tend to be frail to the point of a 2HKO via Foul Play. CM Reuniclus can't do shit to it, while OTR can't heal and gets worn down by Foul Play.
Xatu isn't fodder for it, due to that great physical bulk, potential dual screens and Magic Bounce, but at the same time, Xatu can't do much back other than maybe annoy it with Night Shade and set screens. Espeon gets 2HKOed by Foul Play unless it's 0 Atk IV 252 bold or behind screens or boosted or something, but it can't set up against Sableye unless something Baton Passes it defense or gives it Reflect (or burns Sableye). The physical attackers get burned, while the special ones tend to be frail to the point of a 2HKO via Foul Play. CM Reuniclus can't do shit to it, while OTR can't heal and gets worn down by Foul Play.
Victini is immune to burn, and OHKOs Sableye back with little to no investment in attack (V-Create is absurd...). Burned Metagross does 49.7% minimum with Meteor Mash to the standard 252/120 Sableye. Timid Life Orb Latios OHKOs it with Draco Meteor.
For the volcarona issue, i think that a good counter would be heatproof bronzong, with heavy investments in spdef and hp, as well as enough attack to ohko bulkyvolca with rock slide, and maybe even trick room to help your other pokes beat it. Victini can also work, i guess, and Mr. Mime with snatch causes a fuck ton of prediction.
Scizor is a horrible cripple to this team. CB versions are the most common, but lo versions are arguable better. I would actually like to take a look at guardevoir. Ive used destiny bong gardy as a last check to scizor, who other wise kills our team. We may even need tauntwow mew for this problem.
So far, we know that we need victini, metagross and/or jirachi. Celebi can deal with some rain teams i suppose. Deoxys S is mostlikely also a must. Psychic types have very few spinners too. ( I think claydol is the only one.)
Scizor is a horrible cripple to this team. CB versions are the most common, but lo versions are arguable better. I would actually like to take a look at guardevoir. Ive used destiny bong gardy as a last check to scizor, who other wise kills our team. We may even need tauntwow mew for this problem.
So far, we know that we need victini, metagross and/or jirachi. Celebi can deal with some rain teams i suppose. Deoxys S is mostlikely also a must. Psychic types have very few spinners too. ( I think claydol is the only one.)
You forgot Starmie, Prankster.
deoxy-s can run rockslide to ohko volcorona
Deoxys-S may not be available after a few days and Deoxys-D is too slow to do the job.
Metagross/Jirachi and Victini are complete musts on our team unless you want Tyranitar and Volcarona to shit all over you. That said, I think we should focus on beating Scizor (yes I know we have Victini but max speed Scizor outspeeds you at -1 and you become pursuit bait since it OHKOs with 1 layer of Spikes) next.
edit: i just remembered, we could use Scarf Victini instead. Say no to CB Victini guys, we need CS Victini. Unless you want to get shit on by Scizor.
Metagross/Jirachi and Victini are complete musts on our team unless you want Tyranitar and Volcarona to shit all over you. That said, I think we should focus on beating Scizor (yes I know we have Victini but max speed Scizor outspeeds you at -1 and you become pursuit bait since it OHKOs with 1 layer of Spikes) next.
edit: i just remembered, we could use Scarf Victini instead. Say no to CB Victini guys, we need CS Victini. Unless you want to get shit on by Scizor.
sableye? pshhhh. no problem.
XATU COMES TO THE RESCUE!
xatu can toxic sableye, reflect all taunts and will-o-wisps, and scout using u-turn and reflect hazards and use reflect...
if you dont like him, use espeon but roost is too valuable to give up imo
XATU COMES TO THE RESCUE!
xatu can toxic sableye, reflect all taunts and will-o-wisps, and scout using u-turn and reflect hazards and use reflect...
if you dont like him, use espeon but roost is too valuable to give up imo
Sableye is going to handily dismantle Baton Pass teams. All by itself. Screw your speed boosts, he has priority Taunt!
Actually, its not like he's that bad to deal with (hint: TrickScarf Starmie)
imo balance seems to be a slightly better option due to the fact that they are a bit easier to use and build. However Hyper offense (via trick room or just sheer speed and attack) does seem to fit the psychic type's vast amount of quick, powerful, sweepers (or slow and powerful in trick room ) I mean look at alakazam; What else CAN he do? A ton of them also have some kind of set up move to top it off as well. Stall is lol. they just have weakness that are way to common(aka T-tar will eat 95% of them).
This is a project I'm really interested in, but since I can't connect to Pokémon Online, I cannot test anything relevant... nevertheless, keep it going, people!
The difference with the former Monotype (Water), is that Psychic really has to stress the secondary typing of its mons, since its STAB is sub-optimal. There are some useable mono-psychic mons (from the top of my head: Reuniclus, Espeon, Azelf, Alakazam, Mew, Cresselia), but I'd rather bring almost any dual-type.
That said, and keeping in mind that this is just theorymonning, I'd consider a shortlist more or less like this:
-Victini
-Metagross
-Gallade
-Lati@s
-Starmie
-Jirachi
-Bronzong
-Slowbro
-Celebi
-Xatu
and any of the aforementioned mono-psychics. I don't say that we shouldn't consider things like Claydol or Mr.Mime, but they have limited uses (Other than Volcarona, what else can the mime check? Does Claydol rise up to Starmie's standard as a spinner?), and should be secondary choices.
As for the team type, I think Offense, either Hyper or Bulky, is a viable choice. Remember we are dealing with some of the strongest (special) attackers of the metagame, and many of them can work either as a sweeper, or as a stat-upper.
Anyways, sorry for the rant.
The difference with the former Monotype (Water), is that Psychic really has to stress the secondary typing of its mons, since its STAB is sub-optimal. There are some useable mono-psychic mons (from the top of my head: Reuniclus, Espeon, Azelf, Alakazam, Mew, Cresselia), but I'd rather bring almost any dual-type.
That said, and keeping in mind that this is just theorymonning, I'd consider a shortlist more or less like this:
-Victini
-Metagross
-Gallade
-Lati@s
-Starmie
-Jirachi
-Bronzong
-Slowbro
-Celebi
-Xatu
and any of the aforementioned mono-psychics. I don't say that we shouldn't consider things like Claydol or Mr.Mime, but they have limited uses (Other than Volcarona, what else can the mime check? Does Claydol rise up to Starmie's standard as a spinner?), and should be secondary choices.
As for the team type, I think Offense, either Hyper or Bulky, is a viable choice. Remember we are dealing with some of the strongest (special) attackers of the metagame, and many of them can work either as a sweeper, or as a stat-upper.
Anyways, sorry for the rant.
Given the surprising variety of pokemon types (as in roles, not elemental types), balance does seem like a viable option. However, that means we must be prepared for weather.
Rain:
-Rotom-W: Lati@s and Celebi match up well, because of their resistances to water and electric attacks, good special bulk and indifference towards burn.
-SpecsToad: The aformentioned two work well, but fear Icebeam. Slowbro seems great, but can't take two consecutive Hydro Pumps (Slowking can though).
Sand:
-Terrakion: Slowbro is a concrete wall to most versions. Starmie and Lati@s can revenge unboosted Terrakions without needing a scarf. This might be a problem.
-Landorus: Again, Starmie and Lati@s revenge without scarf, and Slowbro is as tough as ever. Also, it can't touch Bronzong.
Sun:
-Venusaur/Tangrowth/Sawsbuck: Lati@s and Bronzong wall most of them, depending on the specific set.
-Victreebell: Mostly the same as the previous threat, but this time equiped with Sucker Punch.
-Darmanitan: Slowbro is Slowbro. It takes |36% - 42.6%| from LO jolly U-turn, and |30.5% - 36%| from scarf adamant U-Turn, just barely outdamaging Regenerator recovery. Also, Victini can take anything except Rock Slide and EQ, and can abuse sun himself too.
Rain:
-Rotom-W: Lati@s and Celebi match up well, because of their resistances to water and electric attacks, good special bulk and indifference towards burn.
-SpecsToad: The aformentioned two work well, but fear Icebeam. Slowbro seems great, but can't take two consecutive Hydro Pumps (Slowking can though).
Sand:
-Terrakion: Slowbro is a concrete wall to most versions. Starmie and Lati@s can revenge unboosted Terrakions without needing a scarf. This might be a problem.
-Landorus: Again, Starmie and Lati@s revenge without scarf, and Slowbro is as tough as ever. Also, it can't touch Bronzong.
Sun:
-Venusaur/Tangrowth/Sawsbuck: Lati@s and Bronzong wall most of them, depending on the specific set.
-Victreebell: Mostly the same as the previous threat, but this time equiped with Sucker Punch.
-Darmanitan: Slowbro is Slowbro. It takes |36% - 42.6%| from LO jolly U-turn, and |30.5% - 36%| from scarf adamant U-Turn, just barely outdamaging Regenerator recovery. Also, Victini can take anything except Rock Slide and EQ, and can abuse sun himself too.
I think at least one of the teams we should look at is something that could probably be referred to as "gimmicky" with access to Baton Pass and Trick Room. I've been working on a Trick Room team and I've gotten decent success with it, but could use some work, its a decent start though.
Bronzong @ Macho Brace
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Trick Room
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Hypnosis
Metagross @ Air Balloon
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Meteor Mash
- Hammer Arm
- Bullet Punch
Slowbro (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Trick Room
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
Deoxys-D @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Spikes
- Recover
- Taunt
- Toxic
Reuniclus (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 192 HP / 64 Def / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
Victini @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- V-create
- Fusion Bolt
- Brick Break
- U-turn
Bronzong @ Macho Brace
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Trick Room
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Hypnosis
Metagross @ Air Balloon
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Meteor Mash
- Hammer Arm
- Bullet Punch
Slowbro (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Trick Room
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
Deoxys-D @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Spikes
- Recover
- Taunt
- Toxic
Reuniclus (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 192 HP / 64 Def / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
Victini @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- V-create
- Fusion Bolt
- Brick Break
- U-turn
Ok, I have lurked here on this project long enought to say: ^What the (insert bad word here) is this?
Anyway: I believe that BandGross is ABSOLUTLY vital because of it's super strong BP. Bye bye Ttar and Aboma. EQ takes out Tales and a teammate can Kill off Toed unless your wish to run Tpunch.
Anyway: I believe that BandGross is ABSOLUTLY vital because of it's super strong BP. Bye bye Ttar and Aboma. EQ takes out Tales and a teammate can Kill off Toed unless your wish to run Tpunch.
I've noticed that psychic is a bit lacking in the mix department, apart from Azelf, there aren't really any mix attackers. EXCEPT, mixtios, a set I've been running for some time, and it's brought me great success. People focus so strongly on Latios' immense SpA, that it's very usable Atk stat (Base 90) and great speed makes it a very viable user of Dragon Dance.
Latios @Dragon Fang
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk | 4 SpA | 252 Spe
Naive Nature (+Spe, -SpD)
-Dragon Dance
-Earthquake
-Outrage
-Draco Meteor
It's 110 Speed stat allows it outspeed a crap ton of the unboosted metagame, and at +1, it outspeeds pretty much everything, bar Rock Polish Terrakion, Max Speed Venusaur, and random things like Choice scarf Jolteon.
In addition to this, you'll often find that Volcarona will either switch in on, or come in after a Draco Meteor, due to its decent special bulk. At -2 SpA, Volcarona generally has nothing to fear from Latios, even if it's bluffing choice and carries Surf. But the DD set, DD on the turn Volcarona no doubt Quiver Dances, then OHKO with Outrage. Tyranitar, also being normally being a hard counter to Latios can be 2HKOed with EQ after switching in on a Draco (regardless of spread, as if it focuses on one defense, its other loses out). Considering that unboosted Pursuit cannot OHKO Latios, what is once seen as a solid counter, is now only a check.
Scizor, however, is still a very solid counter to Latios, so as always, it needs to be taken out before Latios can do anything.
Latios @Dragon Fang
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk | 4 SpA | 252 Spe
Naive Nature (+Spe, -SpD)
-Dragon Dance
-Earthquake
-Outrage
-Draco Meteor
It's 110 Speed stat allows it outspeed a crap ton of the unboosted metagame, and at +1, it outspeeds pretty much everything, bar Rock Polish Terrakion, Max Speed Venusaur, and random things like Choice scarf Jolteon.
In addition to this, you'll often find that Volcarona will either switch in on, or come in after a Draco Meteor, due to its decent special bulk. At -2 SpA, Volcarona generally has nothing to fear from Latios, even if it's bluffing choice and carries Surf. But the DD set, DD on the turn Volcarona no doubt Quiver Dances, then OHKO with Outrage. Tyranitar, also being normally being a hard counter to Latios can be 2HKOed with EQ after switching in on a Draco (regardless of spread, as if it focuses on one defense, its other loses out). Considering that unboosted Pursuit cannot OHKO Latios, what is once seen as a solid counter, is now only a check.
Scizor, however, is still a very solid counter to Latios, so as always, it needs to be taken out before Latios can do anything.