Ok, so I wrote some more programs and ran some more stats. Here is the motivation behind this latest round of research...
If we simply cap the total good moves in a movepool, I think any savvy movepool submitter will respond by eliminating a bunch of "good moves that aren't very good on this pokemon". Basically, they will cut down the number of "official good moves" -- but in reality, they will not reduce the "true good moves" on the pokemon. Does that make sense?
Movepool submitters will circumvent the rules by making their movepools more efficient. The topic of efficiency has been tossed around quite a bit in this thread, but we really haven't come up with a workable solution for it. All of the solutions would require some level of subjective evaluation of which good moves are "true good moves" for the pokemon we are creating. That's a direction I'd rather avoid. I started this whole PR in an attempt to use objective statistics to drive some process rule changes, and I want to keep to that goal as much as possible.
So, I was thinking of a different way to use some other stats to reduce movepool submitters ability to abuse movepool limits.
The good move limits we are considering are based on statistical averages of good moves in the movepools of top pokemon. In those ingame movepools, there are certain trends that pertain to good moves, that we could force all CAP movepool creators to observe. One key point here -- we would not enforce the trends because our movepools should "fit in the game" or any other flavor reasoning. This is an effort to increase the number of objective criteria required for the movepool, thus reducing the ability for movepool creators to "game the system" by targeting good moves selectively. There will be a secondary benefit that CAP movepools will look more like a "real movepool" -- but that is mostly a side-effect.
So I ran some reports to answer two questions:
- What good moves are always in the movepools of certain types of good pokemon?
- What pairs of good moves always appear in tandem in a given movepool?
Move Combinations
Every pokemon player knows that certain types of pokemon get certain types of moves, and that certain moves always appear together in movepools. Yes, there are always exceptions to any rule. But for example, no one fundamentally disagrees with the general statements "Electric types get Thunderbolt", "Fire Blast and Flamethrower go together", or "Water types get Surf". It may be less obvious to all but fanboy geeks that "Pokemon that get Air Cutter also get Ominous Wind". It gets harder to achieve general consensus when you say "Water types get <whatever ice move>" or "Fighting types get <whatever rock move>". But, amongst the competitive pokemon in the game, I suspected there were many clear statistical trends when it comes to pairing certain types with certain moves, and pairing certain moves with each other. So I wrote a program to find out for sure.
I wrote a program that reported any Type-Move pairing that met the following criteria:
More than 90% of all Good Pokemon (as defined in the OP) of a given Type have a given Good Move (as defined in the OP) in their movepool
And it reports any Move-Move pairing that met the following criteria:
For all Good Moves that exist in at least 20 Good Pokemon movepools, find all other Good Moves that are paired with that move more than 90% of the time
I removed the following moves from the good moves list for these reports, because they are contained in so many movepools that they spam up the lists. And I believe the movepool guide virtually guarantees their inclusion in most CAP movepools anyway.
Code:
Hidden Power
Protect
Rest
Toxic
Substitute
Facade
Return
Hyper Beam
Sleep Talk
Giga Impact
Swagger
Frustration
Endure
Attract
Here's the list of
Type-Move Combinations that meet the criteria above:
Code:
+----------+------------+--------------+------------+--------------+
| Type | Type Count | Move | Pair Count | Pair Percent |
+----------+------------+--------------+------------+--------------+
| bug | 11 | Double-edge | 11 | 100% |
| bug | 11 | Sunny Day | 11 | 100% |
| dark | 11 | Dark Pulse | 11 | 100% |
| dark | 11 | Mud-Slap | 10 | 91% |
| dark | 11 | Payback | 10 | 91% |
| dark | 11 | Sunny Day | 10 | 91% |
| dark | 11 | Taunt | 10 | 91% |
| dragon | 12 | Aerial Ace | 11 | 92% |
| dragon | 12 | Draco Meteor | 12 | 100% |
| dragon | 12 | Dragon Claw | 11 | 92% |
| dragon | 12 | Dragon Pulse | 12 | 100% |
| dragon | 12 | Earthquake | 11 | 92% |
| dragon | 12 | Mud-Slap | 11 | 92% |
| dragon | 12 | Outrage | 12 | 100% |
| dragon | 12 | Rain Dance | 11 | 92% |
| dragon | 12 | Sunny Day | 11 | 92% |
| dragon | 12 | Swift | 12 | 100% |
| electric | 18 | Charge Beam | 18 | 100% |
| electric | 18 | Discharge | 17 | 94% |
| electric | 18 | Light Screen | 17 | 94% |
| electric | 18 | Rain Dance | 18 | 100% |
| electric | 18 | Shock Wave | 18 | 100% |
| electric | 18 | Signal Beam | 18 | 100% |
| electric | 18 | Swift | 17 | 94% |
| electric | 18 | Thunder | 18 | 100% |
| electric | 18 | Thunder Wave | 18 | 100% |
| electric | 18 | Thunderbolt | 18 | 100% |
| fighting | 15 | Brick Break | 15 | 100% |
| fighting | 15 | Bulk Up | 15 | 100% |
| fighting | 15 | Focus Blast | 14 | 93% |
| fighting | 15 | Focus Punch | 14 | 93% |
| fighting | 15 | Mud-Slap | 14 | 93% |
| fighting | 15 | Rock Slide | 15 | 100% |
| fighting | 15 | Rock Smash | 15 | 100% |
| fighting | 15 | Sunny Day | 14 | 93% |
| fighting | 15 | Vacuum Wave | 15 | 100% |
| fire | 13 | Fire Blast | 13 | 100% |
| fire | 13 | Flamethrower | 13 | 100% |
| fire | 13 | Heat Wave | 13 | 100% |
| fire | 13 | Mud-Slap | 12 | 92% |
| fire | 13 | Overheat | 13 | 100% |
| fire | 13 | Rock Smash | 12 | 92% |
| fire | 13 | Solarbeam | 13 | 100% |
| fire | 13 | Sunny Day | 13 | 100% |
| fire | 13 | Will-o-wisp | 13 | 100% |
| flying | 26 | Double-edge | 24 | 92% |
| flying | 26 | Sunny Day | 25 | 96% |
| flying | 26 | Swift | 24 | 92% |
| ghost | 15 | Dream Eater | 15 | 100% |
| ghost | 15 | Ominous Wind | 14 | 93% |
| ghost | 15 | Psych Up | 14 | 93% |
| ghost | 15 | Rain Dance | 14 | 93% |
| ghost | 15 | Shadow Ball | 15 | 100% |
| ghost | 15 | Sucker Punch | 14 | 93% |
| ghost | 15 | Sunny Day | 14 | 93% |
| ghost | 15 | Trick | 14 | 93% |
| ghost | 15 | Will-o-wisp | 14 | 93% |
| grass | 18 | Energy Ball | 18 | 100% |
| grass | 18 | Giga Drain | 18 | 100% |
| grass | 18 | Grass Knot | 18 | 100% |
| grass | 18 | Seed Bomb | 18 | 100% |
| grass | 18 | Solarbeam | 18 | 100% |
| grass | 18 | Swords Dance | 18 | 100% |
| grass | 18 | Synthesis | 18 | 100% |
| ground | 21 | Body Slam | 19 | 90% |
| ground | 21 | Double-edge | 20 | 95% |
| ground | 21 | Earth Power | 21 | 100% |
| ground | 21 | Earthquake | 21 | 100% |
| ground | 21 | Mud-Slap | 21 | 100% |
| ground | 21 | Rock Slide | 21 | 100% |
| ground | 21 | Rock Smash | 21 | 100% |
| ground | 21 | Sandstorm | 20 | 95% |
| ground | 21 | Stone Edge | 20 | 95% |
| ice | 11 | Avalanche | 11 | 100% |
| ice | 11 | Blizzard | 11 | 100% |
| ice | 11 | Double-edge | 11 | 100% |
| ice | 11 | Hail | 11 | 100% |
| ice | 11 | Ice Beam | 11 | 100% |
| ice | 11 | Icy Wind | 11 | 100% |
| ice | 11 | Rain Dance | 11 | 100% |
| normal | 21 | Double-edge | 20 | 95% |
| normal | 21 | Rain Dance | 21 | 100% |
| normal | 21 | Sunny Day | 21 | 100% |
| poison | 13 | Sludge Bomb | 13 | 100% |
| psychic | 28 | Dream Eater | 26 | 93% |
| psychic | 28 | Grass Knot | 26 | 93% |
| psychic | 28 | Light Screen | 27 | 96% |
| psychic | 28 | Psych Up | 27 | 96% |
| psychic | 28 | Psychic | 27 | 96% |
| psychic | 28 | Rain Dance | 26 | 93% |
| psychic | 28 | Sunny Day | 26 | 93% |
| psychic | 28 | Trick | 26 | 93% |
| psychic | 28 | Zen Headbutt | 26 | 93% |
| rock | 11 | Ancientpower | 11 | 100% |
| rock | 11 | Double-edge | 11 | 100% |
| rock | 11 | Earth Power | 11 | 100% |
| rock | 11 | Mud-Slap | 10 | 91% |
| rock | 11 | Rock Polish | 11 | 100% |
| rock | 11 | Rock Slide | 11 | 100% |
| rock | 11 | Rock Smash | 11 | 100% |
| rock | 11 | Sandstorm | 11 | 100% |
| rock | 11 | Stealth Rock | 11 | 100% |
| rock | 11 | Stone Edge | 11 | 100% |
| steel | 15 | Flash Cannon | 15 | 100% |
| steel | 15 | Iron Defense | 14 | 93% |
| steel | 15 | Sunny Day | 14 | 93% |
| water | 33 | Blizzard | 33 | 100% |
| water | 33 | Hail | 32 | 97% |
| water | 33 | Ice Beam | 33 | 100% |
| water | 33 | Icy Wind | 32 | 97% |
| water | 33 | Rain Dance | 33 | 100% |
| water | 33 | Surf | 33 | 100% |
| water | 33 | Water Pulse | 33 | 100% |
+----------+------------+--------------+------------+--------------+
113 rows
Here's the list of
Move-Move Combinations that meet the criteria above:
Code:
+--------------+----------+--------------+------------+--------------+
| Move 1 | M1 Count | Move 2 | Pair Count | Pair Percent |
+--------------+----------+--------------+------------+--------------+
| Aerial Ace | 76 | Double-edge | 69 | 91% |
| Aerial Ace | 76 | Sunny Day | 73 | 96% |
| Air Cutter | 26 | Aerial Ace | 24 | 92% |
| Air Cutter | 26 | Ominous Wind | 26 | 100% |
| Air Cutter | 26 | Sunny Day | 26 | 100% |
| Air Cutter | 26 | Swift | 26 | 100% |
| Amnesia | 31 | Double-edge | 29 | 94% |
| Amnesia | 31 | Mud-Slap | 29 | 94% |
| Ancientpower | 50 | Mud-Slap | 46 | 92% |
| Aqua Tail | 42 | Double-edge | 38 | 90% |
| Aqua Tail | 42 | Mud-Slap | 38 | 90% |
| Aqua Tail | 42 | Rain Dance | 41 | 98% |
| Aqua Tail | 42 | Rock Smash | 38 | 90% |
| Avalanche | 40 | Blizzard | 37 | 93% |
| Avalanche | 40 | Double-edge | 38 | 95% |
| Avalanche | 40 | Ice Beam | 39 | 98% |
| Avalanche | 40 | Rain Dance | 40 | 100% |
| Baton Pass | 28 | Sunny Day | 26 | 93% |
| Bite | 36 | Double-edge | 34 | 94% |
| Bite | 36 | Mud-Slap | 33 | 92% |
| Blizzard | 73 | Ice Beam | 72 | 99% |
| Blizzard | 73 | Icy Wind | 66 | 90% |
| Blizzard | 73 | Rain Dance | 72 | 99% |
| Body Slam | 118 | Double-edge | 115 | 97% |
| Body Slam | 118 | Mud-Slap | 108 | 92% |
| Brick Break | 85 | Mud-Slap | 78 | 92% |
| Brick Break | 85 | Rock Smash | 82 | 96% |
| Brine | 29 | Blizzard | 28 | 97% |
| Brine | 29 | Hail | 28 | 97% |
| Brine | 29 | Ice Beam | 28 | 97% |
| Brine | 29 | Icy Wind | 27 | 93% |
| Brine | 29 | Rain Dance | 29 | 100% |
| Brine | 29 | Surf | 29 | 100% |
| Brine | 29 | Water Pulse | 28 | 97% |
| Bulk Up | 26 | Brick Break | 26 | 100% |
| Bulk Up | 26 | Focus Blast | 24 | 92% |
| Bulk Up | 26 | Mud-Slap | 24 | 92% |
| Bulk Up | 26 | Rock Slide | 25 | 96% |
| Bulk Up | 26 | Rock Smash | 26 | 100% |
| Bulk Up | 26 | Sunny Day | 24 | 92% |
| Calm Mind | 47 | Psych Up | 45 | 96% |
| Calm Mind | 47 | Rain Dance | 45 | 96% |
| Calm Mind | 47 | Shadow Ball | 43 | 91% |
| Calm Mind | 47 | Sunny Day | 44 | 94% |
| Charge Beam | 57 | Rain Dance | 56 | 98% |
| Charge Beam | 57 | Shock Wave | 53 | 93% |
| Charge Beam | 57 | Thunder Wave | 54 | 95% |
| Charm | 38 | Mud-Slap | 36 | 95% |
| Counter | 75 | Double-edge | 71 | 95% |
| Counter | 75 | Rock Smash | 68 | 91% |
| Crunch | 31 | Mud-Slap | 30 | 97% |
| Crunch | 31 | Roar | 28 | 90% |
| Crunch | 31 | Rock Smash | 29 | 94% |
| Curse | 45 | Double-edge | 41 | 91% |
| Dark Pulse | 38 | Sunny Day | 36 | 95% |
| Defense Curl | 56 | Double-edge | 53 | 95% |
| Dig | 75 | Mud-Slap | 71 | 95% |
| Dig | 75 | Rock Smash | 69 | 92% |
| Discharge | 20 | Charge Beam | 20 | 100% |
| Discharge | 20 | Rain Dance | 20 | 100% |
| Discharge | 20 | Shock Wave | 20 | 100% |
| Discharge | 20 | Signal Beam | 20 | 100% |
| Discharge | 20 | Swift | 19 | 95% |
| Discharge | 20 | Thunder | 20 | 100% |
| Discharge | 20 | Thunder Wave | 20 | 100% |
| Discharge | 20 | Thunderbolt | 20 | 100% |
| Dragon Claw | 20 | Aerial Ace | 20 | 100% |
| Dragon Claw | 20 | Dragon Pulse | 20 | 100% |
| Dragon Claw | 20 | Earthquake | 20 | 100% |
| Dragon Claw | 20 | Mud-Slap | 19 | 95% |
| Dragon Claw | 20 | Roar | 19 | 95% |
| Dragon Claw | 20 | Sunny Day | 19 | 95% |
| Dragon Pulse | 33 | Roar | 30 | 91% |
| Drain Punch | 28 | Focus Punch | 27 | 96% |
| Drain Punch | 28 | Sunny Day | 28 | 100% |
| Dream Eater | 64 | Psych Up | 60 | 94% |
| Dream Eater | 64 | Rain Dance | 59 | 92% |
| Dream Eater | 64 | Shadow Ball | 58 | 91% |
| Dream Eater | 64 | Sunny Day | 61 | 95% |
| Dynamicpunch | 62 | Body Slam | 58 | 94% |
| Dynamicpunch | 62 | Brick Break | 60 | 97% |
| Dynamicpunch | 62 | Counter | 56 | 90% |
| Dynamicpunch | 62 | Double-edge | 60 | 97% |
| Dynamicpunch | 62 | Focus Blast | 57 | 92% |
| Dynamicpunch | 62 | Focus Punch | 59 | 95% |
| Dynamicpunch | 62 | Mud-Slap | 58 | 94% |
| Dynamicpunch | 62 | Rock Smash | 58 | 94% |
| Earth Power | 44 | Mud-Slap | 43 | 98% |
| Earth Power | 44 | Rock Smash | 41 | 93% |
| Earthquake | 93 | Mud-Slap | 86 | 92% |
| Earthquake | 93 | Rock Smash | 91 | 98% |
| Endeavor | 26 | Mud-Slap | 25 | 96% |
| Energy Ball | 42 | Sunny Day | 39 | 93% |
| Fire Blast | 50 | Flamethrower | 50 | 100% |
| Fire Blast | 50 | Mud-Slap | 46 | 92% |
| Fire Blast | 50 | Rock Smash | 47 | 94% |
| Fire Blast | 50 | Sunny Day | 49 | 98% |
| Fire Punch | 52 | Mud-Slap | 48 | 92% |
| Fire Punch | 52 | Sunny Day | 50 | 96% |
| Fire Punch | 52 | Thunderpunch | 52 | 100% |
| Flail | 32 | Double-edge | 30 | 94% |
| Flamethrower | 52 | Fire Blast | 50 | 96% |
| Flamethrower | 52 | Mud-Slap | 48 | 92% |
| Flamethrower | 52 | Rock Smash | 48 | 92% |
| Flamethrower | 52 | Sunny Day | 49 | 94% |
| Fly | 24 | Aerial Ace | 23 | 96% |
| Fly | 24 | Double-edge | 22 | 92% |
| Fly | 24 | Mud-Slap | 22 | 92% |
| Fly | 24 | Steel Wing | 22 | 92% |
| Fly | 24 | Sunny Day | 24 | 100% |
| Fly | 24 | Swift | 24 | 100% |
| Focus Blast | 72 | Brick Break | 69 | 96% |
| Focus Blast | 72 | Focus Punch | 68 | 94% |
| Focus Blast | 72 | Mud-Slap | 66 | 92% |
| Focus Blast | 72 | Rock Smash | 67 | 93% |
| Focus Punch | 73 | Brick Break | 70 | 96% |
| Focus Punch | 73 | Focus Blast | 68 | 93% |
| Focus Punch | 73 | Mud-Slap | 67 | 92% |
| Focus Punch | 73 | Rock Smash | 69 | 95% |
| Foresight | 23 | Double-edge | 21 | 91% |
| Gyro Ball | 25 | Rollout | 23 | 92% |
| Hail | 49 | Blizzard | 49 | 100% |
| Hail | 49 | Ice Beam | 49 | 100% |
| Hail | 49 | Icy Wind | 48 | 98% |
| Hail | 49 | Rain Dance | 49 | 100% |
| Hail | 49 | Water Pulse | 46 | 94% |
| Heat Wave | 26 | Double-edge | 24 | 92% |
| Heat Wave | 26 | Sunny Day | 26 | 100% |
| Hydro Pump | 26 | Blizzard | 24 | 92% |
| Hydro Pump | 26 | Double-edge | 24 | 92% |
| Hydro Pump | 26 | Hail | 24 | 92% |
| Hydro Pump | 26 | Ice Beam | 24 | 92% |
| Hydro Pump | 26 | Icy Wind | 24 | 92% |
| Hydro Pump | 26 | Rain Dance | 26 | 100% |
| Hydro Pump | 26 | Surf | 24 | 92% |
| Hydro Pump | 26 | Water Pulse | 24 | 92% |
| Hydro Pump | 26 | Waterfall | 24 | 92% |
| Ice Beam | 79 | Blizzard | 72 | 91% |
| Ice Beam | 79 | Rain Dance | 78 | 99% |
| Ice Punch | 60 | Mud-Slap | 57 | 95% |
| Ice Punch | 60 | Rain Dance | 59 | 98% |
| Icy Wind | 85 | Rain Dance | 83 | 98% |
| Iron Head | 41 | Double-edge | 37 | 90% |
| Iron Head | 41 | Rock Smash | 37 | 90% |
| Iron Tail | 88 | Mud-Slap | 80 | 91% |
| Last Resort | 32 | Mud-Slap | 30 | 94% |
| Last Resort | 32 | Sunny Day | 31 | 97% |
| Light Screen | 65 | Rain Dance | 60 | 92% |
| Night Slash | 23 | Aerial Ace | 22 | 96% |
| Night Slash | 23 | Double-edge | 22 | 96% |
| Night Slash | 23 | Sunny Day | 21 | 91% |
| Ominous Wind | 44 | Sunny Day | 43 | 98% |
| Outrage | 37 | Double-edge | 34 | 92% |
| Outrage | 37 | Earthquake | 34 | 92% |
| Outrage | 37 | Rock Smash | 34 | 92% |
| Overheat | 21 | Flamethrower | 19 | 90% |
| Overheat | 21 | Mud-Slap | 20 | 95% |
| Overheat | 21 | Sunny Day | 20 | 95% |
| Poison Jab | 35 | Mud-Slap | 32 | 91% |
| Psych Up | 88 | Sunny Day | 80 | 91% |
| Pursuit | 38 | Sunny Day | 37 | 97% |
| Quick Attack | 36 | Swift | 35 | 97% |
| Reflect | 49 | Sunny Day | 45 | 92% |
| Refresh | 35 | Double-edge | 34 | 97% |
| Reversal | 20 | Double-edge | 19 | 95% |
| Reversal | 20 | Rock Smash | 19 | 95% |
| Roar | 67 | Mud-Slap | 63 | 94% |
| Roar | 67 | Rock Smash | 62 | 93% |
| Rock Polish | 25 | Double-edge | 24 | 96% |
| Rock Polish | 25 | Earthquake | 23 | 92% |
| Rock Polish | 25 | Rock Slide | 25 | 100% |
| Rock Polish | 25 | Rock Smash | 25 | 100% |
| Rock Polish | 25 | Sandstorm | 24 | 96% |
| Rock Polish | 25 | Stealth Rock | 24 | 96% |
| Rock Slide | 91 | Mud-Slap | 85 | 93% |
| Rock Slide | 91 | Rock Smash | 91 | 100% |
| Rock Smash | 129 | Mud-Slap | 117 | 91% |
| Roost | 28 | Aerial Ace | 28 | 100% |
| Roost | 28 | Double-edge | 28 | 100% |
| Roost | 28 | Sunny Day | 28 | 100% |
| Roost | 28 | Swift | 28 | 100% |
| Sandstorm | 70 | Mud-Slap | 64 | 91% |
| Seed Bomb | 27 | Double-edge | 25 | 93% |
| Seed Bomb | 27 | Mud-Slap | 25 | 93% |
| Seed Bomb | 27 | Sunny Day | 25 | 93% |
| Seismic Toss | 62 | Body Slam | 60 | 97% |
| Seismic Toss | 62 | Brick Break | 60 | 97% |
| Seismic Toss | 62 | Counter | 58 | 94% |
| Seismic Toss | 62 | Double-edge | 62 | 100% |
| Seismic Toss | 62 | Focus Punch | 58 | 94% |
| Seismic Toss | 62 | Mud-Slap | 56 | 90% |
| Seismic Toss | 62 | Rock Smash | 58 | 94% |
| Shadow Ball | 87 | Rain Dance | 83 | 95% |
| Shadow Ball | 87 | Sunny Day | 81 | 93% |
| Shadow Claw | 39 | Mud-Slap | 37 | 95% |
| Shadow Claw | 39 | Sunny Day | 37 | 95% |
| Shock Wave | 81 | Rain Dance | 78 | 96% |
| Shock Wave | 81 | Thunder | 73 | 90% |
| Shock Wave | 81 | Thunderbolt | 75 | 93% |
| Signal Beam | 68 | Rain Dance | 65 | 96% |
| Skill Swap | 34 | Dream Eater | 32 | 94% |
| Skill Swap | 34 | Psych Up | 33 | 97% |
| Skill Swap | 34 | Psychic | 34 | 100% |
| Skill Swap | 34 | Rain Dance | 32 | 94% |
| Skill Swap | 34 | Shadow Ball | 31 | 91% |
| Skill Swap | 34 | Sunny Day | 32 | 94% |
| Solarbeam | 68 | Sunny Day | 66 | 97% |
| Stealth Rock | 53 | Mud-Slap | 49 | 92% |
| Stealth Rock | 53 | Rock Smash | 48 | 91% |
| Steel Wing | 27 | Aerial Ace | 27 | 100% |
| Steel Wing | 27 | Double-edge | 25 | 93% |
| Steel Wing | 27 | Roost | 25 | 93% |
| Steel Wing | 27 | Sunny Day | 26 | 96% |
| Steel Wing | 27 | Swift | 26 | 96% |
| Stone Edge | 59 | Earthquake | 55 | 93% |
| Stone Edge | 59 | Mud-Slap | 54 | 92% |
| Stone Edge | 59 | Rock Slide | 57 | 97% |
| Stone Edge | 59 | Rock Smash | 59 | 100% |
| Sucker Punch | 32 | Sunny Day | 29 | 91% |
| Superpower | 36 | Double-edge | 36 | 100% |
| Superpower | 36 | Mud-Slap | 34 | 94% |
| Superpower | 36 | Rock Smash | 34 | 94% |
| Surf | 57 | Double-edge | 52 | 91% |
| Surf | 57 | Ice Beam | 53 | 93% |
| Surf | 57 | Rain Dance | 57 | 100% |
| Synthesis | 20 | Energy Ball | 20 | 100% |
| Synthesis | 20 | Giga Drain | 20 | 100% |
| Synthesis | 20 | Grass Knot | 20 | 100% |
| Synthesis | 20 | Seed Bomb | 20 | 100% |
| Synthesis | 20 | Solarbeam | 20 | 100% |
| Synthesis | 20 | Swords Dance | 20 | 100% |
| Thunder | 77 | Rain Dance | 75 | 97% |
| Thunder | 77 | Shock Wave | 73 | 95% |
| Thunder | 77 | Thunderbolt | 77 | 100% |
| Thunder Wave | 73 | Rain Dance | 71 | 97% |
| Thunder Wave | 73 | Shock Wave | 66 | 90% |
| Thunderbolt | 80 | Rain Dance | 77 | 96% |
| Thunderbolt | 80 | Shock Wave | 75 | 94% |
| Thunderbolt | 80 | Thunder | 77 | 96% |
| Thunderpunch | 62 | Mud-Slap | 58 | 94% |
| Thunderpunch | 62 | Sunny Day | 57 | 92% |
| Tickle | 21 | Body Slam | 20 | 95% |
| Tickle | 21 | Double-edge | 20 | 95% |
| Tickle | 21 | Mud-Slap | 19 | 90% |
| Trick | 47 | Dream Eater | 45 | 96% |
| Trick | 47 | Psych Up | 45 | 96% |
| Trick | 47 | Rain Dance | 46 | 98% |
| Trick | 47 | Shadow Ball | 46 | 98% |
| Trick | 47 | Sunny Day | 45 | 96% |
| Trick Room | 31 | Dream Eater | 29 | 94% |
| Trick Room | 31 | Psych Up | 31 | 100% |
| Trick Room | 31 | Psychic | 29 | 94% |
| Trick Room | 31 | Rain Dance | 30 | 97% |
| Trick Room | 31 | Sunny Day | 30 | 97% |
| Trick Room | 31 | Trick | 28 | 90% |
| U-turn | 27 | Sunny Day | 26 | 96% |
| U-turn | 27 | Swift | 26 | 96% |
| Water Pulse | 76 | Rain Dance | 74 | 97% |
| Waterfall | 36 | Blizzard | 34 | 94% |
| Waterfall | 36 | Ice Beam | 36 | 100% |
| Waterfall | 36 | Icy Wind | 36 | 100% |
| Waterfall | 36 | Rain Dance | 36 | 100% |
| Waterfall | 36 | Surf | 36 | 100% |
| Waterfall | 36 | Water Pulse | 36 | 100% |
| Will-o-wisp | 35 | Sunny Day | 35 | 100% |
| Wish | 23 | Body Slam | 21 | 91% |
| Wish | 23 | Double-edge | 23 | 100% |
| Wish | 23 | Mud-Slap | 21 | 91% |
| Wish | 23 | Rain Dance | 22 | 96% |
| Wish | 23 | Sunny Day | 21 | 91% |
| X-Scissor | 20 | Sunny Day | 19 | 95% |
| X-Scissor | 20 | Swords Dance | 19 | 95% |
| Yawn | 27 | Mud-Slap | 26 | 96% |
| Zen Headbutt | 51 | Rain Dance | 46 | 90% |
| Zen Headbutt | 51 | Sunny Day | 48 | 94% |
+--------------+----------+--------------+------------+--------------+
275 rows
So those are the ironclad or near-ironclad trends of good moves amongst competitive pokemon movepools. I really don't want to argue why these trends are in place. Some of these combos are driven by pokemon morphology, others may be coincidental. But whatever the reason -- these have a 90% occurrence rate or higher ingame for good pokemon, and could serve as a great concrete base for movepool creators to manage. Not for flavor reasons, but mainly to prevent gaming the limits.
My proposal is that in addition to a limit on the total number of good moves -- that we also force all movepool creators to adhere to these move combinations (where applicable, in the case of the typing combos) in their final movepool. We can allow the TL to give some special exemptions in certain extreme cases. But, otherwise, we enforce the combinations above as an assumption in every movepool discussion and submission. These moves WOULD count against the total good moves allowed in a movepool -- that's the whole point here.
I realize some of these combo requirements may be controversial, others not so much. For example, I doubt many people will really care that every Psychic gets Sunny Day. On all but the most specialized pokemon, Sunny Day is baggage and wastes a "good move slot". That's a good thing, for purposes of this rule. It forces the movepool creators to include a move, and thereby forces the final movepool to take shape in a way that is more consistent with the statistical averages that generated these CAP movepool limitations in the first place (see the OP). I really hope this point sinks in with readers here -- because I have a feeling a lot of people may mistakenly think that I want CAP movepools to be more like real pokemon movepools because I'm a game canon fanboy. And that's not true. Well, it is true... but not in this case.
On the other hand, I was a bit shocked to see that every competitive Grass pokemon gets Swords Dance. I can envision that raising eyebrows as a "requirement" on every future grass CAP pokemon. If it is simply too extreme, the TL can reject it. But my preference would be for us to pretty much "set this in stone" and plan around it. My reasoning is this -- If Swords Dance is not broken on ANY of the existing good Grass Pokemon in the game -- then what the hell are we doing on our CAP that would suddenly make it so broken? If it really is broken, then perhaps the problem is with the other aspects of the CAP, not the fact that it can Swords Dance.
I think the Move-Move combos are less controversial, but there may be people that get bent out of shape on stuff like Discharge and Signal Beam being paired together. If you want Celebi to counter something, this could be an issue for example. But for the most part, I think the Move pairs are inconsequential except for filling out the movepool (which is a good thing) or they are consistent with general competitive expectation. Others may disagree.
I realize there are sometimes reasons to exclude certain moves that are "always on a certain type" or that "always go together" -- but I think we should consider those to be extreme exceptions, not unlike making a new move entirely.
Because, whether it is collectively acknowledged or not, the move trends listed above DO represent a facet of playing the standard metagame.
For example, it is common practice in teambuilding and standard play, for Dragons to avoid Water pokemon. Not because Water is particularly problematic for Dragons -- but because every Water type in the game can carry a potent Ice move. And if Abomasnow hits the field before or after that Watermon shows up, you likely assume that the Watermon is packing Blizzard instead of Ice Beam -- because everything that gets Ice Beam also can carry Blizzard. If we make a Water pokemon without said Ice moves (which DK tried to do with Krillowatt) -- I think we should regard that as an "extreme departure" from the standard metagame. I think we should consider that long and hard, because bucking those trends is more pervasive than just making CAP X better/worse against Pokemon Y. It shifts CAP away from the standard strategies and tactics of OU pokemon, and therefore reduces accessibility, diminishes the value of what we learn, etc.
I don't want to be too dramatic about it, because for most of the moves I listed above -- people aren't going to care too much. Would you really give a darn if a new Rock pokemon didn't get Mud-Slap? Probably not. But some of those other trends may not be so easy to swallow automatically on every CAP. But, what I'd like to do is put these restrictions in place and see how it works. I think it will reduce some exploitation by movepool submitters by reducing their leverage to create "perfectly optimized" movepools. It may also make CAP pokemon more playable in the competitive pokemon metagame, because the "good move profile" will be statistically more consistent with what competitive players consciously or subconsciously expect.