Format Discussion Pokemon Sword & Shield Random Battle Sets

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Also, future sight will deter most mons from setting up, not encourage it. If they dmax to stop future sight, thats a turn burned. Its often never worth it do do this.
I wouldn't say so. There are a lot of sweepers that would love a free turn of setup, even if it means they have to max guard once.

Also it seems to me that you havnt been using future sight right, you should only use future sight on free turns(ie turns where you force a mon out) and then you can use it to abuse.
I've mostly found it hindering, in situations where I would rather have a chance to 1v1 something. And the same goes in reverse. I've had it used against me more than I've used it, and it's only given me trouble once out of those multiple games.
Still, I understand I might need to give it more time and have more samples. And like I said, I'll give it another shot. But I am skeptical.
 
Set Improvements for Zacian Crowned (Took me like 2h to make this, enjoy?)
Lets be honest here, crunch and psychic fangs are the worse thing is in Zacian Crowned's set to ever exist. They are low bp and fail to ko even the targets they are SUPPOSED to HIT. Its just so much better to have a dual stab + cc because of how great cc is(super high bp). And the final/alternate coverage move for non sd/sd should definitely be wild charge, zac c always fails to ohko bulky waters and wild charge allows it to ohko most of them.
New Coverage
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Old Coverage
(Way too many to count, but i put in the most jank ones and some good ones)
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I definitely see an argument for crunch staying, but i personally feel like it is just way to low of a bp to do anything much. Which leads me to my next point, having crunch and psychic fangs just makes rolling a good zacian set really, really hard. Some sets that sd zacian can roll are absolutely horrendous, such as psychic fangs instead of cc. Some sets are pretty good, such as the cc and crunch sets, while some are VERY questionable, such as the non play rough sets(why???). Even though some combos seem to cover a lot, but in reality, non stab moves even at +3 can't kill most targets. Not only that, but most super effective targets can be koed even without the super effective move, such as venusaur(killed by behemoth, even without psychic fangs) Lowering the movepool to only wild charge can only improve zacian, and removing crunch and psychic fangs can only be a blessing.
Wild Charge is Amazing(Bulky Waters)
+3 Lvl 66 84 Atk Zacian-Crowned Wild Charge vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 Def Milotic: 320-378 (110.3 - 130.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Play rough doesnt kill)
+3 Lvl 66 84 Atk Zacian-Crowned Wild Charge vs. Lvl 80 84 HP / 84 Def Suicune: 246-290 (84.5 - 99.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (At least wc gives you a chance)
+3 Lvl 66 84 Atk Zacian-Crowned Wild Charge vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 Def Toxapex: 192-226 (88.8 - 104.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock(Or some chip)
+3 Lvl 66 84 Atk Zacian-Crowned Wild Charge vs. Lvl 84 84 HP / 84 Def Vaporeon: 380-448 (106.7 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO(PR doesnt kill again)

Wild Charge is Amazing(Annoying Bribs)
+3 Lvl 66 84 Atk Zacian-Crowned Wild Charge vs. Lvl 80 84 HP / 84 Def Moltres: 298-352 (108.3 - 128%) -- guaranteed OHKO(Great against birbs)
+3 Lvl 66 84 Atk Zacian-Crowned Wild Charge vs. Lvl 78 84 HP / 84 Def Corviknight: 272-320 (96.7 - 113.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock(corv no longer sits on it)
+3 Lvl 66 84 Atk Zacian-Crowned Wild Charge vs. Lvl 84 84 HP / 84 Def Slowbro: 244-288 (82.1 - 96.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock(bro is beatable)
Even after factoring in recoil, zac c is still going to dent teams extremely hard.

Why Crunch and Psychic Fangs Suck(Fail to OHKO their targets)
+3 Lvl 66 84 Atk Zacian-Crowned Crunch vs. Lvl 84 84 HP / 84 Def Slowbro: 216-256 (72.7 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+3 Lvl 66 84 Atk Zacian-Crowned Psychic Fangs vs. Lvl 82 84 HP / 84 Def Toxapex: 180-214 (83.3 - 99%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock(Not even guaranteed)
+3 Lvl 66 84 Atk Zacian-Crowned Crunch vs. Lvl 80 84 HP / 84 Def Aegislash-Shield: 188-222 (82.8 - 97.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock(Falls to 2 wild charges)
+3 Lvl 66 84 Atk Zacian-Crowned Crunch vs. Lvl 80 84 HP / 84 Def Jirachi: 244-288 (83.8 - 98.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock(Wild charge into cc does the job also)
+3 Lvl 66 84 Atk Zacian-Crowned Crunch vs. Lvl 80 84 HP / 84 Def Metagross: 198-234 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock(Weakness policy sweep, 2 ccs 2hkos)
+3 Lvl 66 84 Atk Zacian-Crowned Crunch vs. Lvl 68 84 HP / 84 Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 178-210 (72.6 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock(Another wp sweep)


Why Crunch and Psychic Fangs Suck(They do nothing to non supereffective targets) (Btw crunch just does about ~5.8% more than fang)
+3 Lvl 66 84 Atk Zacian-Crowned Psychic Fangs vs. Lvl 80 84 HP / 84 Def Moltres: 141-166 (51.2 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 Lvl 66 84 Atk Zacian-Crowned Psychic Fangs vs. Lvl 78 84 HP / 84 Def Zapdos: 150-177 (55.9 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+3 Lvl 66 84 Atk Zacian-Crowned Psychic Fangs vs. Lvl 80 81 HP / 84 Def Araquanid: 139-164 (58.1 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
I dont even need more examples to tell you psychic fangs and crunch are garbage.
 
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JasonOfTheBest21 said:
Some sets that sd zacian can roll are absolutely horrendous, such as psychic fangs instead of cc. Some sets are pretty good, such as the cc and crunch sets, while some are VERY questionable, such as the non play rough sets(why???). Even though some combos seem to cover a lot, but in reality, non stab moves even at +3 can't kill most targets. Not only that, but most super effective targets can be koed even without the super effective move, such as venusaur(killed by behemoth, even without psychic fangs)
Unless a mon has setup +3 moves, it always have the chance of not getting both STABs or getting shit coverage. That won't change even if crunch and psychic fangs are removed to introduce wild charge.
 
Unless a mon has setup +3 moves, it always have the chance of not getting both STABs or getting shit coverage. That won't change even if crunch and psychic fangs are removed to introduce wild charge.
The problem is that crunch and psychic fangs just suck period. Lowering the coverage to only cc and wild charge makes zacian substantially better because it basically removes the really horrendous sets. Cc/play rough/wild charge is very good and is MUCH better than dual stab + psychic fang, not to mention how terrible crunch and psychic fangs are(too low.bp) Wild charge also just hits more. Also zacian is setup +3 moves.... Sd/3 coverage moves, its just that crunch and psychic fangs ruin the coverage. This is again, because of their horrible bp, Behemoth is 150 bp, Play rough is 142.5bp, cc is 120 bp and Wild charge is 90bp(hits a ton of resists super effectively so its usually 180bp). Meanwhile psychic fangs doesn't
complement the dual stab of Zacian, and crunch is only 160bp on a super effective mon, only about 6.6% stonger than behemoth and 12.2% stronger than play rough, it just isnt worth it because it doesnt kill its targets. Wc on the other hand is 20% stronger than behemoth and 26% stronger than play rough. The power difference is massive.
 
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Celever

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So following the Persian post a page back, after playing a little more I want to suggest an overhaul to Skuntank even if I'm not 100% sure about what to do with it.

Currently Skuntank can get some really janky movesets like Toxic / Crunch / Sucker Punch / Taunt, which don't really fulfil a particular role at all (stallbreaker I guess?). Now, don't get me wrong, Skuntank has a horrid learnset, but I think when something is as bad as Skuntank, utility moves become more viable to include. Moves like Haze (it already starts with a Focus Sash if lead) can be really nice in the dynamax format for removing dyna boosts from opponents; Roar has niche uses but I kind of think that Skuntank is just too frail to use it properly as well; and Hone Claws honestly feels worth potentially including just for stronger Sucker Punches that could allow it to sometimes act as a cleaner.

Perhaps its movepool should just be Defog, Haze, Sucker Punch, Hone Claws, Poison Jab, maybe Crunch? Fire Blast is a move that has more potential use than actualised use in my opinion, since so many Steel-Type Pokémon either don't mind taking a Fire Blast from Skuntank or aren't even weak to it (at which point Crunch is better anyway). Skuntank's special attack isn't really good enough to warrant Fire Blast in practice. I would almost say delete Haze and/or Defog and just have Skuntank be a niche set-up sweeper, but idk.

At the very least I think Taunt is bad on Skuntank because it's not fast enough and has nothing to capitalise on potential forced switches with. It's also a bad Defogger as far as Defoggers go, but Defog is such a good move that it's probably justified anyway? Same goes for Toxic in theory but again, Skuntank doesn't force enough switches for Toxic to do anything. IDK, I'm interested in if other people have ideas (e.g. Memento or Explosion are niche options here), I just think Skuntank needs some help.
 

pokeblade101

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Perhaps its movepool should just be Defog, Haze, Sucker Punch, Hone Claws, Poison Jab, maybe Crunch? Fire Blast is a move that has more potential use than actualised use in my opinion, since so many Steel-Type Pokémon either don't mind taking a Fire Blast from Skuntank or aren't even weak to it (at which point Crunch is better anyway). Skuntank's special attack isn't really good enough to warrant Fire Blast in practice. I would almost say delete Haze and/or Defog and just have Skuntank be a niche set-up sweeper, but idk.
I completely disagree with this to be quite honest. Fire Blast is a NEEDED move on skuntank or Steel-types will take advantage of it. Do you want to do 60 or 18 to a Steelix? 90 or 25 to a Ferrothorn? Likewise Taunt is needed so those Ground-types, Steel-types etc. don't set up in its face or to recover. I also don't really get the point that it isn't fast enough, 189 speed is enough to stop several hazard setters (it could do with a level buff tbh).

I like the idea of Haze but that might be adding too many status moves to it and I would personally prefer Taunt over Haze, it isn't bulky enough for that.

For Hone Claws, I will use Drapion as an example. Stuntank is slightly stronger but Drapion has access to SD to get its power up quickly and has better coverage, yet it still fails to KO some times with that. I don't think Hone Claws Skuntank will work on it as well, it doesn't like to sweep given its poor coverage.
 
So following the Persian post a page back, after playing a little more I want to suggest an overhaul to Skuntank even if I'm not 100% sure about what to do with it.

Currently Skuntank can get some really janky movesets like Toxic / Crunch / Sucker Punch / Taunt, which don't really fulfil a particular role at all (stallbreaker I guess?). Now, don't get me wrong, Skuntank has a horrid learnset, but I think when something is as bad as Skuntank, utility moves become more viable to include. Moves like Haze (it already starts with a Focus Sash if lead) can be really nice in the dynamax format for removing dyna boosts from opponents; Roar has niche uses but I kind of think that Skuntank is just too frail to use it properly as well; and Hone Claws honestly feels worth potentially including just for stronger Sucker Punches that could allow it to sometimes act as a cleaner.

Perhaps its movepool should just be Defog, Haze, Sucker Punch, Hone Claws, Poison Jab, maybe Crunch? Fire Blast is a move that has more potential use than actualised use in my opinion, since so many Steel-Type Pokémon either don't mind taking a Fire Blast from Skuntank or aren't even weak to it (at which point Crunch is better anyway). Skuntank's special attack isn't really good enough to warrant Fire Blast in practice. I would almost say delete Haze and/or Defog and just have Skuntank be a niche set-up sweeper, but idk.

At the very least I think Taunt is bad on Skuntank because it's not fast enough and has nothing to capitalise on potential forced switches with. It's also a bad Defogger as far as Defoggers go, but Defog is such a good move that it's probably justified anyway? Same goes for Toxic in theory but again, Skuntank doesn't force enough switches for Toxic to do anything. IDK, I'm interested in if other people have ideas (e.g. Memento or Explosion are niche options here), I just think Skuntank needs some help.
Completely agree with pokeblade101 on Fire Blast + Skuntank. Honestly, I can't even think of any moment where I was "mad" I got a Skuntank with Fire Blast. It's not even just for Ferrothorn or Steelix. There are a lot of Pokemon that gets deterred from setting up due to a potential Fire Blast, and even more so with Life Orb. And it's an even bigger deterrent considering Skuntank's ability and the fact many of the Pokémon Fire Blast would be useful for are physical attackers. Obviously it has its drawback (85% accuracy). Amongst those Pokémon :
- Steelix, which can't freely set-up twice with Dragon Dance;
- Ferrothorn, which gets OHKO'd with Life Orb or almost certainly with some chip/hazard damage;
- Scizor, which gets nuked;
- Corviknight, which can't set-up as freely, and with Life Orb, gets almost certainly 2HKO'd;
- Cobalion, which gets 2HKO'd and which needs to be at +3 at least to score a OHKO on Skuntank (or iron head flinch);
- Zacian-C, which gets brought to aftermath range if Life Orb and Sucker Punch are both rolled;
- Zamazenta-C, which isn't really a menace but with Howl added to its movepool, can be quite annoying;
- Skarmory, which gets 2HKO'd;
- Kartana, which gets nuked too, and if it has Sash, is threatened by Sucker Punch or Aftermath;
- Pheromosa, which gets almost certainly OHKO'd, life orb or not, and if not, gets to Aftermath range (and if it has ice beam, CC + Ice Beam are not enough to KO Skuntank);
- Aggron is kinda of niche, but at least it gets brought to ~70% HP rather than ~80% HP;
- Stakataka, similar as Aggron;
- Duraludon, same thing due to its poor special defense (especially without LO)
- Copperajah, same thing;
- Magearna is bulky and can set up while taking a fire blast from Skuntank, but it forces the opponent to be quite careful;
- Togedemaru is more easily manageable with Fire Blast;
- Cloyster can be put in a dangerous position since Fire Blast can 2HKO (low chance) without Life Orb, and 2HKOs with Life Orb, and Icicle Spear, baring crits, doesn't KO Skuntank if it does not have Life Orb, and has a small chance of not OHKO'ing if it has. In the former case, it makes Cloyster vulnerable to being KO'd with Sucker Punch;
- Buzzwhole can't come in almost risk free, and has a decent chance to be brought to Aftermath range with Fire Blast + Sucker Punch, life orb or not;
- Lucario can't use Skuntank as a set-up fodder;
- Heracross gets 2HKO'd with Life Orb, and without it, gets brough to Aftermath range, deterring the opponent from using Swords Dance;
- Pinsir is the same as Heracross, though it is faster and has access to non-contact moves (but is also more vulnerable to sucker punch);
- Scyther takes some risk, even with Eviolite;
- Groudon has a decent chance to be 2HKO'd by LO Skuntank, making it risky to use Swords Dance;
- Darmanitan-Galar becomes a risky play due to its poor bulk;
- Escavalier is OHKO'd with Life Orb, and brought to Aftermath/crunch/sucker punch range if not;
- Melmetal gets almost certainly 2KHO'd, life orb (which guarantees) or not;
- Eiscue can't freely set-up in your face due to lack of Fire Blast (though this can be stopped with Taunt);
- Perrserker gets put in a precarious situation even if Skuntank doesn't have LO (which would bring it to Aftermath range), since it's 2HKO'd;
- Glastrier ends up only being able to land one hit with its poor speed if it uses SD, since it takes ~35% from non-LO Skuntank;
- Aegislash can't fish out an attack drop and then switch out if that's your opponent's last hope;
- The various Gourgeist (thicc or thin) all take slightly more from Fire Blast, and can't annoy you to hell if they land a W-o-w.
- Abomasnow can't set up aurora veil, something it could do even with poison jab;
And I probably forget some.


Of course, ideally, you always want a fire type on your team for those Pokémon - but this is random battles, you can't always get what you want/need. The list of Pokémon that Fire Blast deters/checks/counters is large enough (nearly 30 pokémon, even though for some it's maybe pushing it a little), IMO, to warrant keeping Fire Blast.

I also simply don't like the Hone Claw idea. Its only strong physical moves are, outside of its STABs (Crunch and Poison Jab), Iron Tail, Play Rough (which both add almost no value besides T-Tar and Terrakion), Dig (which is only useable if you dynamax, really - even though it is THE coverage type that it needs on a physical set) and, Explosion, as you mentioned (but it's a case where any offensive move + explosion would do just as much as hone claw + explosion). With Explosion, you also don't get Aftermath damage, which is no big deal on a special attacker, but which also don't really justify using Explosion on a physical one.
 
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Annika

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cant do that without freeing non-fire lash, unless some code shenaniganry is done. I dont feel that would be worth the trouble.
Um... no? If we give Centiskorch Fire Blast, it'll still always get Fire Lash; giving it both Fire Blast and Burn Up necessitates a single additional line of code to force Fire Lash. I'm perfectly fine with this set if the community likes it; it's definitely very feasible technically.
 
I would honestly be delighted by getting specially-based/mixed Centiskorch. Sometimes you can't afford the turn to setup Coil, and Fire Lash is ok, but Overheat/Burn Up hit switch-ins far harder than Fire Lash would and don't require the switch-in to be slower than Centi. It would also open up Scorching Sands as an option, removing non-Air Balloon Heatran, Volcanion, Dialga, Duraludon and Reshiram as checks/counters.
 
Hi, this is about Klefki.
Its about the set generation of Play rough/Foul Play/Magnet Rise/Thunder Wave, which was considered to be bad by the Randbom Battles comunity, as its prankster options were quit limited. We discussed it in the chat room and came to the conclusion, that making it only carry 1 offensive move would be the best option, that not only prevent this set but also makes klefki a better prankster mon overall.

Therefore I suggest that play rough and Foul play should not be on klefki at the same time
 
This critique is in a similar vien to the klefki situation. Volcarona atm can roll both giga drain AND roost together which is a massive no. Volc already necessitates quiver dance, and it not running bug stab really hurts it in a ton in a lot of situations. Grass doesn't cover as much as bug does, and giga drain is really weak. Volc should only roll giga drain if roost isnt rolled, otherwise give it dual stab.
 
Galarian moltres should not get substitute since it does not activate berserk. Avoiding status isn't worth the moveslot when
- it doesn't always get leftovers
- most defensive pokemon can still break its sub in one hit
- it doesn't use a move that boosts either of its defenses like bulk up or calm mind to make its sub not break in one hit by most pokemons
 

pokeblade101

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Galarian moltres should not get substitute since it does not activate berserk. Avoiding status isn't worth the moveslot when
- it doesn't always get leftovers
- most defensive pokemon can still break its sub in one hit
- it doesn't use a move that boosts either of its defenses like bulk up or calm mind to make its sub not break in one hit by most pokemons
It will be removed
 
Hi, Im asking for the addition of u, turn in the set of tapu koko, as tapu kokos attack is decent enough to consider it.

the reason why i would pick u turn over volt switch is simply that the mons tapu koko want to escape are mainly grass/poison and ground types, which the earlier resists volt switch and the later is immune to, which even traps koko if its choiced.

yes, even after terrain boost, lo/lefties/sash u turn is still stronger than volt switch against neutral targets when volt switch is resisted
 
Why does victini have assault vest as one of it's sets? It doesn't seem like a viable set compared to the likes of a heavy duty boots set (which is not even an option when you play) Which is actually viable and worth using over something that is rather exploitable compared to boots where it isn't fazed by hazards, runs a pivot move on things it can't break. So I think that a special heavy duty boots set should be added with the moves blue flare, psychic, uturn and bolt strike and the assault vest set should be removed.
 
Why does victini have assault vest as one of it's sets? It doesn't seem like a viable set compared to the likes of a heavy duty boots set (which is not even an option when you play) Which is actually viable and worth using over something that is rather exploitable compared to boots where it isn't fazed by hazards, runs a pivot move on things it can't break. So I think that a special heavy duty boots set should be added with the moves blue flare, psychic, uturn and bolt strike and the assault vest set should be removed.
Especially as Victini already runs U-Turn (so a momentum user) and is grounded. That would be a given HDB instead of AV.
 
I wanted to give some suggestions concerning the addition of CAPmons to the tier, but it seems you guys are already doing that, so I will simply post a normal suggestion.

I feel like current Armaldo is too similar to Kabutops at the moment - with Rapid Spin, Stone Edge, Swift Swim, Swords Dance - while also having a lot of moves that simply don't play well with the roles it's supposed to have. A suggestion I have to fully differentiate from Kabutops is to go all out on its Rapid Spin capacity, make HDB the default item and reduce the number of moves it could get while coding it to only get Swift Swim if there's a teammate with Drizzle. If that's not feasible, then make Battle Armor the default ability. As it stands, I just feel slightly disappointed whenever I get the little guy. Rapid Spin, Knock-Off, Stone Edge and Earthquake are all the moves it needs. Maybe slash Stealth Rock/Toxic in the same spot as Earthquake but that's it.
 

Celever

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I'd rather have Soft-boiled over double status, thank you very much.
FFA currently uses Random Doubles sets as it’s in alpha version, which is also why there are completely useless moves that should never be clicked like Follow Me, Rage Powder, and arguably Heal Pulse. Softboiled is bad in doubles compared with dual status, so it’s something that we have to live with for a while.
 
White herb meteor beam would be a cool dmax option on Nihilego. Can't say for certain if it would be better than power gem (the predictability might be an issue), but getting to +1/+2 then having 140 bp max rockfall if you want rock coverage again would be real nice
 
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