SPOILERS! Pokemon Legends: Arceus *Leak Thread*

Here's a doc showing all of the changed moves and what got changed from SWSH. Notably, several moves from dlc2 are different from what we have now, even though they are unavailable.



Flags didn't match up at all, so they were skipped. I'll look a little more, if I find any that do match up, I'll add it and mention it here.



https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1D8fcCXIsy_oE_SNtHUYV9q00Ta1ngQ27TAUFLcwK5xg/edit?usp=sharing



Edit: Immediately found target data that lined up, adding them now (in all cases, the move was just changed to " AnyExceptSelf ").
I have finished going through all the flags and have added them to the list of changed moves (adding a few more). So to see what moves where changed, here's the link here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1D8fcCXIsy_oE_SNtHUYV9q00Ta1ngQ27TAUFLcwK5xg/edit?usp=sharing

I noticed that Double Hit is now a 0 damage status move that has the following effect:
"The user adopts a hard-hitting stance to increase the damage dealt by its moves by 50 percent."
 

Samtendo09

Ability: Light Power
is a Pre-Contributor
Ursaring was pretty much Normal-type Machamp. No really, 5 less defense and 10 less special defense for 10 more special attack:

View attachment 400222


At times, stuff that only evolves once is already good enough to count as fully evolved. Then again, I've been seeing people asking for evolutions for Snorlax and Lapras for over a decade.

Ursaluna is great, but, Ursaring was already great enough, even if not OU. It is Rhyperior all over again.

And, you know what worked really well with those high stat species? Mega Evolutions.

Ask Pinsir and Heracross. Or Scizor. Compare Mega Houndoom to Magmortar, or Mega Aerodactyl to Porygon-Z.

But they dropped a damn fine mechanic because of reasons. And now we are going back to the original Sinnoh feeling of evolving either stuff that would count as fully evolved anyway. Or just evolving one part of a version exclusive pair; Dusclops evolved without Banette, and now Ursaring evolves without Donphan.

Oh well, the game looks fun. And don't get me wrong, Ursaluna feels neat, but, it not being Mega Ursaring, and only it and Stantler out of all the Johto 'mons getting an evolution, rubs me wrong.
It all depends on execution rather than concept alone. I understand that Donphan not getting an evolution since it was a version counterpart to Ursaring is very vexing, but a problem of this kind is not exclusive to traditional evolution.

Mega Evolution doesn’t take previous version counterparts, simple counterparts or even branched evolutions into consideration either. Gallade and Sableye didn’t get a Mega Evolution when XY was released; it’s not until ORAS that they get one. Milotic, Butterfree, Slowking and Froslass doesn‘t get that at all despite Gyarados, Beedrill, Slowbro and Glalie having a Mega in Gen 6.

Plus there are two factors one really need to consider when it comes to Mega Evolution:
  • Only one Mega per team; you can‘t run a Mega Beedrill and a Mega Audino on the same team even if the latter is ultimately mediocre. It’s certainly for lore reason. But the one below is a lot more impactful than you think. By contrast, nothing is stopping you from running Ursaluna, Wyrdeer, Basculegion and Kleavor in the same team in PL:A, and in prior games like B2W2, Pokémon like Magmortar, Electivire, Roserade, Steelix and Scizor.
  • Even more severe balance issues; not as big of an issue for VGC, but even Dynamax didn’t do the power creep this badly in comparison to Mega Evolution in VGC. Dakress also spoke the problem on what Pokémon gets Mega Evolution, something that regular evolutions fell into the problem way less often. No cross-gen evos have completely throw the balance away either.
Frankly, I rather have new evolutions over Mega Evolutions unless their BST is already very high (Dhelmise coming to mind) or is already a second evolution (Wigglytuff), especially because of the balancing risk and the “one per team” factor Mega Evolution have.
 
Count me in as loving ursaluna. I love bears and never really liked any of the bear pokemon too much (or mechanically they were a bit of a let down). But wow those stats - conkeldurr is one of my favorite pokemon from a gameplay pov and ursaluna has better stats across the board, and guts. I really hope it's movepool is decent (and can be transferred to other games with multiplayer)
Same here. Bears are some of my favorite animals. Pangoro was my hope that finally there is a bear that came to play. Ursaluna looks like the first to fill that void (Technically ursushifu came first but it is a legendary so I don't count it).
 
Same here. Bears are some of my favorite animals. Pangoro was my hope that finally there is a bear that came to play. Ursaluna looks like the first to fill that void (Technically ursushifu came first but it is a legendary so I don't count it).
Technically Snorlax is based on a hibernating bear and has been a major player since RBY. But yeah Ursaluna could be very well the premier bear Pokemon
 
I really hope it gets to keep Eruption, actually having a secondary stab on top of immunity to Fake Out is amazing. And I was playing him scarfed anyway so that slightly lower speed isnt going to hurt him, and is more than made up by the extra Spatk
It literally can't lose Eruption, its been a level up move for the entire Cyndaquil line since gen 4.

Just transfer a Cyndaquil/Quilava that knows it to PLA, evolve it, and transfer it to whatever the next game H-Typhlosion's in.

Unless Eruption gets purged, or they leave Typhlosion (or just H-Typhlosion) out every game going forward forever, it can't not have Eruption.

The reason people are worried about it not getting Focus Blast is because only Typhlosion learns that out of the Cyndaquil line.
 
ayo mods someone posted a nude guy :mad:


also theres no way I'm seeing someone legit want a mega evolution instead of a normal one for a mon. Cross evolutions were the best gimmick ever and we've been downhill ever since.

anyways ursaluna is cute. love doofy mons that just hit like trucks
I think cross gen evos, regional variants and megas can all have their place. Just the execution can vary wildly. For every Mega Charizard, Ursaluna/Rhyperior, and Alolan Marowak you will get a Mega Audino, Electivire or Alolan Raticate.
 

Samtendo09

Ability: Light Power
is a Pre-Contributor
put respect on my mans alolan raticate right now. hes trying his best
I know he is but I'm afraid his Kanto cousin is saying it's time to get up and stop eating all the crisps.
I wouldn't count Electivire as a good example of a crossgen evo; MAGMAR was the more physically inclined one.

Crobat, Togekiss, Yanmega, Lickilicky, Tangrowth, Steelix, Probopass, Kingdra, Ambipom, Mismagius, Honchkrow and even Blissey are great tho.
Flamestorm7 said Electivire as an example as a poorly done cross-gen evo mechanically-wise, compared to Rhyperior who Solid Rock alone give it an enough edge that otherwise Eviolite Rhydon will overshadow it. And we know that Ursaluna’s stats alone tells us it’s an unexpectedly strong threat.

Lemingue’s right, as Alolan Raticate isn’t meant to be competitively viable and Regional Evolutions aren’t a thing until SwSh, so it’s clearly meant to be an early route night Pokémon to begin with. A better example for a regional dud that does not have the same excuse as Alolan Raticate would be Alolan Dugtrio, where it didn’t really improved on what standard Dugtrio hae, and Galarian Stunfisk, that have good concept blundered by completely aimless execution.
 
Same here. Bears are some of my favorite animals. Pangoro was my hope that finally there is a bear that came to play. Ursaluna looks like the first to fill that void (Technically ursushifu came first but it is a legendary so I don't count it).
Snorlax is a bear and was good for a very long time.

Checking the Forces of Nature movepools and realizing there is a chance Enamorus might get Leaf Storm, lol. Dying for these learnsets.

I thought everyone counted Electivire as the premier bad cross gen evolution? At least I certainly did when I brought it up.
In reality most of the DP cross gen evolutions were straight up worse than Electivire. Electivire is just the most flagrant example because it was noob bait for so long. I was here back then and people really, really forced themselves to believe it was good.

At time of introduction, in rough order of viability -

Gliscor: OU
Mamoswine: OU
Magnezone: OU
Weavile: OU
Togekiss: OU
PZ: OU
Honchkrow: BL (definitely better than Vire though)
Gallade: BL
Rhyperior: UU
Electivire: "OU"
Dusknoir: "OU"
Yanmega: BL
Mismagius: UU
Tangrowth: UU but really didn't get good until Regenerator + meta shifts in UU around late BW/early XY
Probopass: NU
Magmortar: NU

forgetting a few others. Roserade was good, Licklilly was terrible. Leafeon/Glaceon have an obvious reason to not be competitive.
 
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alolan raticate is cute and he has funny cheeks. I do not care that he sucks balls because he is just a little guy and I respect him (and I also think its a more interesting design than original raticate without adding a bunch of stuff to make it more complex. simple and good)

back on topic though, I'm warming up a lot to the new pokemon. I think seeing them in action really showcases their strengths. I know thats not how it works, but sometimes it feels like they were designed as models first and then given 2d art, like the good old gen 1 sprite era
 
I suppose that's true. Electivire did have the most press but stuff like Lickilicky were just as bad if not worse. Though saying that I feel a lot of DPP cross gen evolutions seemed like definitive improvements or certainly have shown to be with time and hidden abilities. Just off the top of my head Tangrowth, Roserade, Rhyperior, Mismagius, Gliscor, Weavile, Togekiss, Mamoswine and Honchkrow all improved on their previous forms and I feel like that is a substantial number.
 
They are also the ones to be used in the most games. And the ones that work with other mechanics (form changes had been a thing for 8 years when megas were introduced).
 
alolan raticate is cute and he has funny cheeks. I do not care that he sucks balls because he is just a little guy and I respect him (and I also think its a more interesting design than original raticate without adding a bunch of stuff to make it more complex. simple and good)

back on topic though, I'm warming up a lot to the new pokemon. I think seeing them in action really showcases their strengths. I know thats not how it works, but sometimes it feels like they were designed as models first and then given 2d art, like the good old gen 1 sprite era
I think Alolan Rat is ight, mainly because in practice, it ends up being about as good as absol stat wise (ignoring accuracy) and has a pretty good secondary stab move.
Snorlax is a bear and was good for a very long time.

Checking the Forces of Nature movepools and realizing there is a chance Enamorus might get Leaf Storm, lol. Dying for these learnsets.



In reality most of the DP cross gen evolutions were straight up worse than Electivire. Electivire is just the most flagrant example because it was noob bait for so long. I was here back then and people really, really forced themselves to believe it was good.

At time of introduction, in rough order of viability -

Gliscor: OU
Mamoswine: OU
Magnezone: OU
Weavile: OU
Togekiss: OU
PZ: OU
Honchkrow: BL (definitely better than Vire though)
Gallade: BL
Rhyperior: UU
Electivire: "OU"
Dusknoir: "OU"
Yanmega: BL
Mismagius: UU
Tangrowth: UU but really didn't get good until Regenerator + meta shifts in UU around late BW/early XY
Probopass: NU
Magmortar: NU

forgetting a few others. Roserade was good, Licklilly was terrible. Leafeon/Glaceon have an obvious reason to not be competitive.
Yeah, Electivire wasn't that terrible when it was introduced and might have been decent in a lower tier like UU. However, getting virtually no buffs since its inception probably makes it the second worst out of the DPP evos, only behind Probopass imo. Magmortar is much better I think since it got a lot of good tools over time like Flame Charge, AV, Vital Spirit (better on Magmortar since it resist Grass attacks) and HDB, along with a Fairy resistance. Glaceon at least got Freeze dry and buffed shadow ball to hit steel-types, and Leafeon got Knock Off to fix its coverage issues.
 

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