Organized Real Time Mafia on IRC (yeah!)

[blue_light]

I also agree that roles shouldn't be announced, but that is my personal preference in what type of games I want to play. Why should we restrict the host to that though? Why can't the host choose whether or not he/she wants to host a game with roles announced or not, they just have to make sure that enough people want to play and the game is balanced accordingly.

Edit: Dynamite Mafia Revisited, the thought is chilling.

 

[Outlaw]

Edit: Dynamite Mafia Revisited, the thought is chilling.

Horrifying*

 

[Shiv]

You know from before that I was big on this. I suggest you do the following though:

- Give a lot of time for days. Give them atleast 5-10 minutes per lynch so that there is no rushed bandwagoning.
- Make sure cheating in terms of copy pasting etc is not allowed at all.
- If you use an old game, just put all the roles on an html page, link them all and pm them 'youre ____', copypasting is thrown out the window.

I would personally suggest creating new game ideas rather than re-use old ones.

Also, I could work on that bot maybe, I'll tell you in some time on that (sorry about my inactiveness lately, been pretty fucking busy).

 

[MagicMaster87]

This sounds like a great idea as well, although my current work schedule would probably prevent me from taking part in a majority of them. :(

Also, I don't know how willing you guys are to trust someone other than Shiv with it, but I would be willing to work on the mafia bot if you'd like since it seems like he's too busy for it right now. I have a few years of programming experience, including writing various commands and games for chatbots (the most complex ones I've written are a trivia game that can give out hints and have multiple answers for a single question, and a Yugioh TCG game where you can build decks and duel others with them). I would need the source code for at least the mafia game, however, at least if you want faster results, so like I said, if you don't trust me with that I'd completely understand.

 

[Gmax]

This sounds like a great idea! I agree with keeping days slightly long, so that actual discussion can take place instead of random bandwagoning.

I would also support implementing anonymity if everyone can agree to it. Giving each person an alias and having them log on to IRC completely anonymously shouldn't be hard. A set of aliases to be used could be regged once by someone and given their respective vhosts, an ten afterwards just be recycled. Every new game each player would be given their alias and the password to that account and would be asked to log in using chatzilla or something.

I also support new games being used rather than old ones. I'd rather see the old themes being reused in revised forum versions, as was suggested in a previous thread.

 

[Amelia]

I'm all for this. The only thing hard might be finding people who are willing to host instead of play, but i think it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Mekkah]

So what I've heard so far:

1. Most people don't want all existent roles revealed at the start. This is perfectly fine with me, I don't want that either. I do think I want to give mafia false claim room by telling them one or two roles that aren't in the game.
2. Longer-than-#fluodome day deadlines. This is what I've always wanted. I don't think a lot of time is needed though. Bandwagoning is in the Smogon Mafioso's blood. I will say max five minutes for now.
3. Little if any flavour
4. No copypasting, or referring to an index of all role PMs if using flavor from old games. I agree to this.

So other things:

The only thing hard might be finding people who are willing to host instead of play, but i think it shouldn't be a problem.

I'm willing to host at least during testing phase. Still looking for 1-2 volunteer co-hosts, though I think a time would have to be thought up first before people know if they can make it.

Any thoughts on whether people want generic villagers in or not?

I'm for "cardflip" AKA "roles revealed upon dying" btw, that's simply how we've always played.

Also, I don't know how willing you guys are to trust someone other than Shiv with it, but I would be willing to work on the mafia bot if you'd like since it seems like he's too busy for it right now.

This would be great, but keep in mind that you're looking at a ton of work if you're going for a bot with custom roles. You're best off asking Brain, Shiv or CaptKirby for mafiabot's code, I think.

 

[blue_light]

I would be willing to cohost, but there might be time differences. Otherwise if the idea is successful I wouldn't mind rehosting one of my old small mafias ( A large mafia game might be unsuccessful since their might not be enough interest in the pool of players in certain time zones.

 

[MagicMaster87]

This would be great, but keep in mind that you're looking at a ton of work if you're going for a bot with custom roles. You're best off asking Brain, Shiv or CaptKirby for mafiabot's code, I think.

It's extremely late here so I don't really have the thinking power to explain in detail, but having a truly "custom roles" bot is technically impossible. There can be a "role creator" command(s) and "custom rules" commands, but that's still limited to whatever is already in the bot's programming. Anything beyond that would require modding of the bot by the host or bot owner (similar to how you can mod video and computer games with new maps and weapons and whatnot).

Adding additional roles and having multiple modes (such as "classic" mafia, "updated" mafia, "custom" mafia where you can change various settings such as day/night length) shouldn't be difficult, however. It just depends on how much new stuff needs to be added to the bot and how many/which settings need to be customizable.

 

[Mekkah]

There can be a "role creator" command(s) and "custom rules" commands

This would be my preference, probably, and it may be just me but I think making this user-friendly for people who don't know how the bot's coding works would be quite difficult. Don't let me stop you though!

Adding additional roles and having multiple modes (such as "classic" mafia, "updated" mafia, "custom" mafia where you can change various settings such as day/night length) shouldn't be difficult

A way to save certain modes/rulesets (for example, "Harry Potter Mafia" with 5 minute days, 5 minute nights, and this, that and those roles) would be nice and useful, I think.

 

[MagicMaster87]

This would be my preference, probably, and it may be just me but I think making this user-friendly for people who don't know how the bot's coding works would be quite difficult. Don't let me stop you though!

I will try to make it as user-friendly as possible, but it would probably be best if there was a help page with descriptions of each of the commands and basic roles, as well, especially for the customizing commands.

A way to save certain modes/rulesets (for example, "Harry Potter Mafia" with 5 minute days, 5 minute nights, and this, that and those roles) would be nice and useful, I think.

Do you mean a way for hosts to save the custom games they create so it can be used multiple times? I suppose this is possible, although it seems kinda odd to me since people are already expressing concerns about replaying old forum games in this thread and I don't see why that would be different for IRC games.

However, if you simply mean several pre-set modes with commonly-used rules, I was planning on doing that already. Like I said, there would probably be a "classic" mode (basically the current mafiabot), a "default" mode (which would be a simple upgraded version of classic with new roles, probably altered time/day lengths, and different role ratios), however many pre-set rules modes I'm asked to make, and a custom game creator.

I'll need to talk to you more in-depth about what roles, modes, etc. you want added once I get the bot code.

 

[Mekkah]

Get on IRC if you want to discuss it real time and in depth.

EDIT: Also, I'd like opinions on the time to organize this. I believe the main concentration points of mafia players are Europe+UK, USA+Canada and Australia. We can't satisfy everyone, but it'd be nice to try.

 

[Umbreon Dan]

I'm interested in exactly how everything's going to be organized. Upon death, does one get kickbanned, or maybe devoiced in a +m room? How do the hosts keep the room quiet enough to make announcements that nobody will miss? I would expect to see the sort of spam that goes on in #fluodome mafia, except with at least twice as many players.

Also, I'd be up for co-hosting (and playing, obviously...)

 

[Mekkah]

Here's a possible set-up I made so far at the moment itself.

I announce the game is about to begin by posting in the dedicated thread and in #smogon, #warau, #fluodome and any other channels interested. I will have made a secret channel for the game, which is set on +l with the limit of how many players can be in max (obviously taking myself and co-hosts into account). Once I get everyone's names down, I take off the +l and +s mode so that anyone interested can come and watch. This also allows people who sub in later to be less "out of the loop". Being allowed to watch is a privilege btw, if I find out you're interfering with the game when you're not playing I'll punish you the same way as if you did so in a forum mafia.

When I've distributed roles, me and my co-host(s) PM them to everyone. The channel is set to +m with only the players being voiced and the hosts being opped. I may have some roles interfering with channel modes for kicks.

From there, it's experimental. I want to leave every alive player voiced if possible, but if it gets too hectic I may have a "mayor" vote at the start of the game, in which players vote on one guy who gets halfops and leads the discussion. Or I could make it a role.

 

[Shiv]

MagicMaster87 - message me on IRC and i'll explain everything to you.

Oh and it uses Python, I'm not sure if you have experience with it.

 

[Mekkah]

He said he's experienced with a language that's a bit like Python so he should be able to pick it up fairly easily.

 

[Jedil]

I was thinking of this idea a lot, i almost went threw with making a small 15 player game. But it is a good idea, it wouldn't be that hard, night cycles can last 20 minutes, while days last 15 minutes(maybe less). The only thing is is writing pms up, i figure you can just make them basic, but with a little flavor so you have an idea of what you're dealing with.

This would be a grwat idea

 

[Amelia]

I believe that even if it's in a wrong timezone some of us will still stay up for the night to play. But i think the first few games should be test games, because there are so many things that could go wrong with the initial games.

 

[Mekkah]

Okay, since UBV is over and Viva draws to a close I really should get this off the ground ASAP. I'm thinking about the time being somewhere between 20:00 UTC (this was Viva deadline) and a little later, and probably in a weekend somewhere so people can stay up late more easily and/or get up whenever they want and usually don't have work/school.

I was halfway through converting timezones when I realized something wasn't right...anyway,

3:00 PM in Europe
2:00 PM in UK
7:00/8:00 AM in USA
~10:00 PM in Australia

seems like a fairly reasonable time for most. If no one has any objections/better suggestions I'll go with that.

 

[Outlaw]

7:00/8:00 AM in USA

D: Perhaps something in the afternoon for us in the States?

 

[Accent]

Meeting planner for Paris, New York and Melbourne.

As you can see, there aren't many possibilities... We could also make it 5-6PM for Europe (4-5PM for UK), 11AM-12PM for NY and 1-2AM for the aussies, but other than that, I don't see a better solution.

 

[shade]

preferably not 2pm/3pm for europe and uk during the working week, as this coincides with work/school/college. otherwise, those times are fine.

 

[askaninjask]

I can see a couple of workable times on that list:
11 PM for England, 5 PM for the East Coast (US), 2 PM for the West Coast (US), and 7 AM for Aussies, and the one Mekkah mentioned.

Some people are going to have to wake up early on a weekend in order to play.

 

[Brain]

It's extremely late here so I don't really have the thinking power to explain in detail, but having a truly "custom roles" bot is technically impossible. There can be a "role creator" command(s) and "custom rules" commands, but that's still limited to whatever is already in the bot's programming. Anything beyond that would require modding of the bot by the host or bot owner (similar to how you can mod video and computer games with new maps and weapons and whatnot).

Adding additional roles and having multiple modes (such as "classic" mafia, "updated" mafia, "custom" mafia where you can change various settings such as day/night length) shouldn't be difficult, however. It just depends on how much new stuff needs to be added to the bot and how many/which settings need to be customizable.

Oh, you can have pretty extreme customization if you allow code snippets to be evaluated, e.g.:

!addrole hooker priority=1000 query="hook %target" tags=hooker code="deschedule_where(user = target, message = ...)" description="..."

!addrole bodyguard priority=900 query="protect %target" tags=bodyguard code="deschedule_where(action = 'kill', target = target, message = ...)" description="..."

!addrole inspector priority=100 query="inspect %target" tags=inspector code="send(user, target.role.description)" description="..."

!addrole thief priority=100 query="steal from %target" tags=thief code="user.items += target.items; target.items = []; send(user, 'you got ' + target.items); send(target, 'your items were stolen')" description="..."

!addrole redirect priority=1200 query="redirect %target1 to %target2" tags=redirect code="target1.target = target2" description="..."

!addrole mayor day_query="vote %target" day_code="vote[user] = (target, 2)" description="..."

etc.

The main problem with that system is that it's a gaping security hole (afaik there are no facilities in python to make it safe), but the point is, you could have a system with full customization. In any case, if I was to remake mafiabot, it should be that easy to make new roles, but the host would need to add them to a configuration file, not through the security liability that !addrole would be.

 

[jumpluff]

Okay, since UBV is over and Viva draws to a close I really should get this off the ground ASAP. I'm thinking about the time being somewhere between 20:00 UTC (this was Viva deadline) and a little later, and probably in a weekend somewhere so people can stay up late more easily and/or get up whenever they want and usually don't have work/school.

I was halfway through converting timezones when I realized something wasn't right...anyway,

3:00 PM in Europe
2:00 PM in UK
7:00/8:00 AM in USA
~10:00 PM in Australia

seems like a fairly reasonable time for most. If no one has any objections/better suggestions I'll go with that.

A few hours after is better imo, because who gets up at 7 AM on Saturdays/Sundays? (other than you -.-)