*snickers* I played roughly five games in OMs last year, disregarding FU. I guess that counts?
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ORAS FU Metagame Discussion (old)
- Thread starter Gary
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The thing is Buzz is basically like PU Poliwrath. It's not broken in the slightest, but it's so good that there's like absolutely no reason not to use it on pretty much every FU team because of how much offensive utility it carries. It's centralizing as fuck yes, but it keeps so much of the meta in check that without it, half the shit found on offense such as Krow, Cuno, Huntail, Simipour, Simisage, Sear, and Swanna would be a bitch to deal with. Not saying that we're keeping Buzz around in order to make team building easier, but it's so healthy for the meta that its centralizing nature isn't deemed unhealthy in this case (at least in my opinion, but some would argue that any major centralizing force is unhealthy for the development of the tier and should be banned).
Also most of those things you mentioned are just top tier threats; E-Buzz is the only one that's centralizing. FU is actually very diverse and there are a ton of underrated threats in the metagame that can work very well but people choose not to use them because they're afraid to branch out from all the amazing Pokemon found in the upper ranks. For example, Persian was previously seen as a lower-mid tier threat, but after people realized how easy it is for Persian to smack offensive teams, it sky rocketed in usage and is now considered a mid-top tier Pokemon. Other gems such as Vibrava, Stomp, and Wigglytuff have proved their recent usefulness as well because people started using other shit. Most people probably don't realize that Quiver Butterfree completely shits on a wide variety of team builds at the moment.
It's a shame, I'd really like to make this meta a lot more active, but it's very difficult finding battles and much like most OMs that lack a perm ladder, it's really hard for people to find battles in general. Yes you can technically play FU on the PU ladder, but you can't ladder FU without running into PU teams lol.
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Also because this meta is dead, I feel like I might as well contribute some form of discussion just so the most recent post is more meta related. Time to vent about the shit I saw people using on the ladder (not just by bad ladder (BAN ME PLEASE), but most of the people I fought that were actually decent or high on the ladder).
Contrary to popular belief, Scarf Electabuzz is a terrible set, and I don't know why that ended up being the most commonly used item on it iirc. Not only is Electabuzz pretty weak without a boosting item, but it's also frail as ever living fuck without Eviolite. Scarf basically embodies these two terrible shortcomings Electabuzz has, and multiplies them by the power of 10. While outspeeding the entire metagame may seem appealing, being 2HKOed by shit such as Persian's Fake Out, becoming complete set up bait for a ton of sweepers, missing out on a ton of OHKOs, and being locked into weak coverage moves is so bad in a meta where shit like Fraxure and Kingler can completely run through your team with just one turn of free set up. With Scarf you basically accomplish one thing and one thing only; revenge killing CB Adamant Ninjask. Other than that, there's pretty much nothing else. Even SS Huntail OHKOs Buzz with a +2 Sucker, which proves just how frail this mother fucker is without Evio. The only really good E-Buzz sets that are worth using and are what makes Buzz so good, is Eviolite and Life Orb. Eviolite allows Buzz to become an amazing pivot which gives it a shit ton of momentum against offense and balance, while LO just hits really hard and allows it to secure MUCH more 2HKOs and OHKOs with coverage moves. Specs is okay, and is better atm seeing as how Whiscash is no longer that great anymore so spamming Volt Switch and racking up a lot of residual damage is a decent strat, so it's pretty cool on Volt-turn teams (CB Jask + Specs Buzz is pretty stupid but it works lol). Marshstomp is seeing a spike in usage though so I'm not sure if it's still good.
Other smaller things. Sub Coil Arbok is only good with Gunk and either EQ or Aqua Tail. Sucker gives you barely any coverage and you straight up lose to Gigalith, Lairon, Klang, opposing Arbok, etc. If you're going to use Sucker Punch, use LO 3 attacks, cause at least you still hit Lairon as well as hitting frail offensive mons very hard with a +1 Sucker as well as picking shit off. Lefties Sucker is just way too weak. Lastly, use LO Rain Dance Golduck, it's very good and it completely destroys offense.
Here's an amazing Pokemon atm that got a huge buff thanks to the re-release of Custap berry:
Gigalith @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Explosion
This is, in my opinion, one of the best SR leads for offensive teams. Although Custap Dwebble has access to both SR and Spikes, it's biggest downside is its lack of an offensive presence, which keeps it from beating opposing leads as well as having a chance against hazard removers. Gigalith on the other hand has one of the highest Attacks stats in FU, and with access to Sturdy + Custap, it's pretty much guaranteed Stealth Rock as well as getting off a powerful Explosion or Rock Blast. Custap Gigalith can even beat Swanna, because once it's brought down to Custap range it can either nail it with an Explosion or a Rock Blast. Explosion is also nice because it gives you a shit ton of momentum, while also preventing Tortle and Prinplup from defogging. Rock Blast breaks opposing Sashes, Sturdy, and Substitues, but Stone Edge can be used if you prefer more power. EQ deals heavy damage to Lairon, Gigalith, Metang, and Arbok. Max Speed is used opposed to Max HP because with less HP it will be brought down to Custap range more often, and it's already so naturally bulky that it can still check things such as Fraxure and Persian in a pinch. It also outspeeds up to Prinplup, which is pretty cool. A Jolly nature can be used in order to explode on tortle before it can spin, but most of the time it's easy enough to play around it enough to keep SR on the field anyway, so taking away from its raw power is discouraged. Although it lacks the potent combinatino of SR + Taunt that Onix and Monferno have or Spikes, it's massive offensive presence as well as its ability to beat/prevent most common hazard removers thanks to Explosion and very high Attack stat is incredibly useful. It's a huge boon to offensive teams for its ability to get SR on the field so easily while also providing teams with a great offensive nuke, so it's definitely going up a slot or two on the ranking thread because of it. No longer do offensive teams have to rely as much on using passive shit like Prinplup, Onix, or Marshstomp for SR.
Contrary to popular belief, Scarf Electabuzz is a terrible set, and I don't know why that ended up being the most commonly used item on it iirc. Not only is Electabuzz pretty weak without a boosting item, but it's also frail as ever living fuck without Eviolite. Scarf basically embodies these two terrible shortcomings Electabuzz has, and multiplies them by the power of 10. While outspeeding the entire metagame may seem appealing, being 2HKOed by shit such as Persian's Fake Out, becoming complete set up bait for a ton of sweepers, missing out on a ton of OHKOs, and being locked into weak coverage moves is so bad in a meta where shit like Fraxure and Kingler can completely run through your team with just one turn of free set up. With Scarf you basically accomplish one thing and one thing only; revenge killing CB Adamant Ninjask. Other than that, there's pretty much nothing else. Even SS Huntail OHKOs Buzz with a +2 Sucker, which proves just how frail this mother fucker is without Evio. The only really good E-Buzz sets that are worth using and are what makes Buzz so good, is Eviolite and Life Orb. Eviolite allows Buzz to become an amazing pivot which gives it a shit ton of momentum against offense and balance, while LO just hits really hard and allows it to secure MUCH more 2HKOs and OHKOs with coverage moves. Specs is okay, and is better atm seeing as how Whiscash is no longer that great anymore so spamming Volt Switch and racking up a lot of residual damage is a decent strat, so it's pretty cool on Volt-turn teams (CB Jask + Specs Buzz is pretty stupid but it works lol). Marshstomp is seeing a spike in usage though so I'm not sure if it's still good.
Other smaller things. Sub Coil Arbok is only good with Gunk and either EQ or Aqua Tail. Sucker gives you barely any coverage and you straight up lose to Gigalith, Lairon, Klang, opposing Arbok, etc. If you're going to use Sucker Punch, use LO 3 attacks, cause at least you still hit Lairon as well as hitting frail offensive mons very hard with a +1 Sucker as well as picking shit off. Lefties Sucker is just way too weak. Lastly, use LO Rain Dance Golduck, it's very good and it completely destroys offense.
Here's an amazing Pokemon atm that got a huge buff thanks to the re-release of Custap berry:
Gigalith @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Explosion
This is, in my opinion, one of the best SR leads for offensive teams. Although Custap Dwebble has access to both SR and Spikes, it's biggest downside is its lack of an offensive presence, which keeps it from beating opposing leads as well as having a chance against hazard removers. Gigalith on the other hand has one of the highest Attacks stats in FU, and with access to Sturdy + Custap, it's pretty much guaranteed Stealth Rock as well as getting off a powerful Explosion or Rock Blast. Custap Gigalith can even beat Swanna, because once it's brought down to Custap range it can either nail it with an Explosion or a Rock Blast. Explosion is also nice because it gives you a shit ton of momentum, while also preventing Tortle and Prinplup from defogging. Rock Blast breaks opposing Sashes, Sturdy, and Substitues, but Stone Edge can be used if you prefer more power. EQ deals heavy damage to Lairon, Gigalith, Metang, and Arbok. Max Speed is used opposed to Max HP because with less HP it will be brought down to Custap range more often, and it's already so naturally bulky that it can still check things such as Fraxure and Persian in a pinch. It also outspeeds up to Prinplup, which is pretty cool. A Jolly nature can be used in order to explode on tortle before it can spin, but most of the time it's easy enough to play around it enough to keep SR on the field anyway, so taking away from its raw power is discouraged. Although it lacks the potent combinatino of SR + Taunt that Onix and Monferno have or Spikes, it's massive offensive presence as well as its ability to beat/prevent most common hazard removers thanks to Explosion and very high Attack stat is incredibly useful. It's a huge boon to offensive teams for its ability to get SR on the field so easily while also providing teams with a great offensive nuke, so it's definitely going up a slot or two on the ranking thread because of it. No longer do offensive teams have to rely as much on using passive shit like Prinplup, Onix, or Marshstomp for SR.
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Also sorry for double posting, but I'm gonna make this post a placeholder for now because I'm going to do a quick sweep of the VR and see if anything needs to move up or down. When ever the March statistics are released I'm going to finally allow for a shift to see what ends up rising or dropping down to FU. I probably wont do 3.4% because so much shit will rise/drop if I do that, but something reasonable; aka something will drop and something will rise at least. Maybe a meta shake is what this meta needs in order to become a bit more active again. So yeah, gonna update the VR thread as accurately as possible to the current meta so when the shift happens we can go from there.
Gigalith up from B+ to A- (reasoning above)
Simisage up from A to A+ Mixed Simisage is literally god tier at the moment. It's seriously impossible to switch into outside of things like Arbok and bulky Articuno or niche shit such as Swalot, and its Speed tier makes it an absolute monster for bulky offensive teams. In general, every time Simisage gets a free switch into something against offense, it's probably going to get a kill. Rock Slide has also seen more usage because it lures LO Cuno as well as almost OHKOing Krow after it has been knocked off. OHKOing Rapidash on the switch after SR is cool too. If it wasn't for Rapidash (which will probably move up this month) as well as Persian being so common lately, Simisage would probably be eligible for S rank. Nasty Plot is so bad and has no influence on Simisage moving up at all.
Lairon up from A- to A One of the best offensive Stealth Rock setters in the tier thanks to its massive bulk, power, and Steel-typing. It's weak to a lot of common types, but it checks a lot of top tier threats such as Krow, Scarf Rampardos, Zweilous, Cate, Cuno, Clef, Persian, Swoobat, and Ninjask. Rock Head Head Smash is super fun too.
Seviper down from A+ to A Seviper is a very good wallbreaker and still probably one of the best in the tier, but its Speed tier and fragility are much more of an issue than it used to be, especially with Persian, Dash, Sawsbuck, the monkeys, and of course Buzz being so popular. Its Scarf set is still a strong cleaner, but as a revenge killer it's still way too slow to revenge a majority of the Speed boosting sweepers out there. Seviper was easily A+ when Sticky Web was still around, because its LO set could get away with not running Sucker and its Scarf set could revenge a lot more shit.
Gogoat down from A+ to A In all honesty, this thing should have been A ages ago, especially after Rapidash dropped. The Sub BU set is very bad so I'm not even going to go into much detail about that, but its best sets; LO Milk Drink 3 attacks, 4 attacks, and offensive BU are still no where near as effective as they used to be. If Dash ever rises then yeah Goat will most likely see more usage again (although Simisear will be as popular as ever if that happens) but the meta has adapted so well to handling Goat with shit such as Gunk Simisage, Arbok, Sub SD Buck, Dash, Cuno, Ninjask, Gourgeist, and Scarf Viper. Simisage is also the go to Grass-type at the moment as well, because at least it has a better matchup against most of those Pokemon. Still a very solid Pokemon, but has taken a massive hit in viability lately.
Gigalith up from B+ to A- (reasoning above)
Simisage up from A to A+ Mixed Simisage is literally god tier at the moment. It's seriously impossible to switch into outside of things like Arbok and bulky Articuno or niche shit such as Swalot, and its Speed tier makes it an absolute monster for bulky offensive teams. In general, every time Simisage gets a free switch into something against offense, it's probably going to get a kill. Rock Slide has also seen more usage because it lures LO Cuno as well as almost OHKOing Krow after it has been knocked off. OHKOing Rapidash on the switch after SR is cool too. If it wasn't for Rapidash (which will probably move up this month) as well as Persian being so common lately, Simisage would probably be eligible for S rank. Nasty Plot is so bad and has no influence on Simisage moving up at all.
Lairon up from A- to A One of the best offensive Stealth Rock setters in the tier thanks to its massive bulk, power, and Steel-typing. It's weak to a lot of common types, but it checks a lot of top tier threats such as Krow, Scarf Rampardos, Zweilous, Cate, Cuno, Clef, Persian, Swoobat, and Ninjask. Rock Head Head Smash is super fun too.
Seviper down from A+ to A Seviper is a very good wallbreaker and still probably one of the best in the tier, but its Speed tier and fragility are much more of an issue than it used to be, especially with Persian, Dash, Sawsbuck, the monkeys, and of course Buzz being so popular. Its Scarf set is still a strong cleaner, but as a revenge killer it's still way too slow to revenge a majority of the Speed boosting sweepers out there. Seviper was easily A+ when Sticky Web was still around, because its LO set could get away with not running Sucker and its Scarf set could revenge a lot more shit.
Gogoat down from A+ to A In all honesty, this thing should have been A ages ago, especially after Rapidash dropped. The Sub BU set is very bad so I'm not even going to go into much detail about that, but its best sets; LO Milk Drink 3 attacks, 4 attacks, and offensive BU are still no where near as effective as they used to be. If Dash ever rises then yeah Goat will most likely see more usage again (although Simisear will be as popular as ever if that happens) but the meta has adapted so well to handling Goat with shit such as Gunk Simisage, Arbok, Sub SD Buck, Dash, Cuno, Ninjask, Gourgeist, and Scarf Viper. Simisage is also the go to Grass-type at the moment as well, because at least it has a better matchup against most of those Pokemon. Still a very solid Pokemon, but has taken a massive hit in viability lately.
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Ban Fraxure.
Also up Lairon and Dwebble. Custap Berry greatly benefited them, in the back of the classic SR/Metal Burst/Endeavor set and on the SR + Spikes
Also up Lairon and Dwebble. Custap Berry greatly benefited them, in the back of the classic SR/Metal Burst/Endeavor set and on the SR + Spikes
New stats are out! I decided to use 1760 stats with standard 3.4% cutoff. We gained a lot of shit but still lost some pretty significant things, so get ready for a huge meta change!
We lost:
Arbok
Rapidash
Servine
Rampardos
Whirlipede
Monferno
Hippo
Gogoat
Jumpluff
We gained:
Driftblim
Beheeyem
Barbaracle
Relicanth
Chatot
Ditto
Luxray
Victreebel
Dusclops
Bastiodon
So we lost four of FU's top tier threats, but we gained an extremely powerful wallbreaker, a broken sweeper, a Boomburst mon, something that makes sun even more broken, an unbreakable wall, and a more defensive lairon. It's so funny how with every tier shift Electabuzz only seems to get better lmao. We obviously have some pretty broken shit to watch out for such as Barb and Clops (clops was around for a solid month earlier in FU and it was broken as hell so I doubt much has changed). Chatot may turn out to be broken in the future, but as it looks now, the fact that we also got a complete hard counter to it in the form Clops/Bastiodon and it can no longer abuse Chatter anymore to beat Ghosts, I think it will be fine.
We lost:
Arbok
Rapidash
Servine
Rampardos
Whirlipede
Monferno
Hippo
Gogoat
Jumpluff
We gained:
Driftblim
Beheeyem
Relicanth
Chatot
Ditto
Luxray
Victreebel
Dusclops
Bastiodon
So we lost four of FU's top tier threats, but we gained an extremely powerful wallbreaker, a broken sweeper, a Boomburst mon, something that makes sun even more broken, an unbreakable wall, and a more defensive lairon. It's so funny how with every tier shift Electabuzz only seems to get better lmao. We obviously have some pretty broken shit to watch out for such as Barb and Clops (clops was around for a solid month earlier in FU and it was broken as hell so I doubt much has changed). Chatot may turn out to be broken in the future, but as it looks now, the fact that we also got a complete hard counter to it in the form Clops/Bastiodon and it can no longer abuse Chatter anymore to beat Ghosts, I think it will be fine.
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Ban Fraxure
Ban Dusclops I don't want to use CM Krow and SD Raticate on EVERY team
Ban Barbaracle SS outspeeds Scarf Electabuzz and has Grass Knot/Ice Beam for Marshtomp, Palpitoad and Gourgeist.
Unban Sticky Web. We lost Rampardos which was prob the best non-broken abuser on the tier since bear fell. Also, Beheeyem is a great punisher to SW teams because of analytic working better with less Speed.
Victreebel may be broken, though sun took a hit with Rapidash leaving and Bastiodon and Ditto falling.
Ban Dusclops I don't want to use CM Krow and SD Raticate on EVERY team
Ban Barbaracle SS outspeeds Scarf Electabuzz and has Grass Knot/Ice Beam for Marshtomp, Palpitoad and Gourgeist.
Unban Sticky Web. We lost Rampardos which was prob the best non-broken abuser on the tier since bear fell. Also, Beheeyem is a great punisher to SW teams because of analytic working better with less Speed.
Victreebel may be broken, though sun took a hit with Rapidash leaving and Bastiodon and Ditto falling.
Ok so I've not been a whole lot active since I more or less stopped playing pokemon when FU ladder dissapeared. I'll try to get somewhat more into the meta since i quite enjoy it. idk if im council worthy but I'll let you guys deside that.
Anyways, thoughts on drops
fuck clops
barb should mabye be quickbanned since it hits like a motherfucker and is 2fast. on top of my head it has no Counters either :/ shacky accuracy is its only problem.
beeheyem looks really cool for prime speed control (TR and fucking over SW if it gets unbanned, which I support)
Victreebel will make sun strong (rip dash) and make scarf golduck a prime revengekiller.
Relicanth is.stupid fun and its CB set could Actually become a prime wallbreaker. Its also bulky af for a CB user this low.
Specs chatot looks like a real treat, but not broken in anyway sine it cant break bast or spdef lairon (unless hp ground but its a terrible move to be locked into)
Drifblim is a ghost and ghosts are cool
Rip snake, dash and ramp. Ferno was cool too. Idc for the rest really
Anyways, thoughts on drops
fuck clops
barb should mabye be quickbanned since it hits like a motherfucker and is 2fast. on top of my head it has no Counters either :/ shacky accuracy is its only problem.
beeheyem looks really cool for prime speed control (TR and fucking over SW if it gets unbanned, which I support)
Victreebel will make sun strong (rip dash) and make scarf golduck a prime revengekiller.
Relicanth is.stupid fun and its CB set could Actually become a prime wallbreaker. Its also bulky af for a CB user this low.
Specs chatot looks like a real treat, but not broken in anyway sine it cant break bast or spdef lairon (unless hp ground but its a terrible move to be locked into)
Drifblim is a ghost and ghosts are cool
Rip snake, dash and ramp. Ferno was cool too. Idc for the rest really
Also Barbaracle is getting quickbanned. There's no fucking way that thing is balanced in a tier where Vigoroth was considered on level with RBY Mewtwo. It pretty much 2HKOs everything before boosting and at +2 it just mows through everything. It would force the tier to run like Marshstomp on every team or something dumb like that in order to beat it. No need to test it. Dusclops is broken but it can stick around for a bit.
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Prinplup didn't rise lol
Ah my bad I was told from someone that other tiers were also doing tier shifts. Never mind lol. Plup thankfully is here to stay for now.
Remember what I said about Simisage going to S if two of its best checks, Rapidash and Arbok, left the tier for some reason? Well as you can see, both Dash and Bok have left the meta, and even with the new drops the only thing that Sage really has to worry about is Clops to an extent (it hates being Knocked Off and a Leaf Storm will do a shit ton to it afterword) and Driftblim. Jumpluff was also a great check to it as well, and it's also in PU now. Now that both Pluff and Goat are gone, Simisage has less of a reason to run Gunk Shot, which means it has more room for Rock Slide in order to check Articuno and prevent Ninjask from switching in on Leaf Storms. It also OHKOs Chatot iirc.
Simisear will also go back to S now that Rapidash is gone. Even though Rapidash was not S when it was around, before Rapidash even dropped to FU, Simisear's impact on the tier was so influential because it was one of the only REALLY good Fire-types in the tier. It could basically freely spam Specs Fire Blast without a care in the world, and Nasty Plot didn't have to absolutely run HP Ground. Although Heatmor is still a threat and carries Flash Fire, unlike Rapidash Heatmor is slower than Simisear so it's not nearly as easy to punish Simisear as Rapidash could outspeed and maim with Flare Blitz or Drill Run. While Rapidash is arguably a better Fire-type Pokemon all around, the fact that it wasn't the only good Fire-type in the tier and Simisear was still a very viable option, kept Rapidash from being nearly as useful as Simisear was in a standalone meta. So yeah, that's why Simisear is an S rank Pokemon at the moment.
I was also talking with some people about making Simipour S rank as well. Why Simipour seems to hardly ever get much love from people I will have no idea, but it's easily one of the best set up sweepers in the tier as well as a very powerful wallbreaker. Even though someone could say that Buzz is too common for it to be considered on more teams, it just hits so damn hard and does so much damage to offense, much like Simisear. To be honest if Simisear is S I think Simipour could easily be S as well, even though it does have a bit more exploitable flaws. Although, the lack of Gogoat, Pluff, and even Rapidash actually helps it out a lot. I'll wait to see what other people think.
Simisear will also go back to S now that Rapidash is gone. Even though Rapidash was not S when it was around, before Rapidash even dropped to FU, Simisear's impact on the tier was so influential because it was one of the only REALLY good Fire-types in the tier. It could basically freely spam Specs Fire Blast without a care in the world, and Nasty Plot didn't have to absolutely run HP Ground. Although Heatmor is still a threat and carries Flash Fire, unlike Rapidash Heatmor is slower than Simisear so it's not nearly as easy to punish Simisear as Rapidash could outspeed and maim with Flare Blitz or Drill Run. While Rapidash is arguably a better Fire-type Pokemon all around, the fact that it wasn't the only good Fire-type in the tier and Simisear was still a very viable option, kept Rapidash from being nearly as useful as Simisear was in a standalone meta. So yeah, that's why Simisear is an S rank Pokemon at the moment.
I was also talking with some people about making Simipour S rank as well. Why Simipour seems to hardly ever get much love from people I will have no idea, but it's easily one of the best set up sweepers in the tier as well as a very powerful wallbreaker. Even though someone could say that Buzz is too common for it to be considered on more teams, it just hits so damn hard and does so much damage to offense, much like Simisear. To be honest if Simisear is S I think Simipour could easily be S as well, even though it does have a bit more exploitable flaws. Although, the lack of Gogoat, Pluff, and even Rapidash actually helps it out a lot. I'll wait to see what other people think.
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Really glad to see the FU thread coming alive again but I only have one question:
Can Mightyena deal with Clops?
Can Mightyena deal with Clops?
I imagine sun will be really centralising and potentially broken with Victreebel in the tier, might be worth a look.
the core of rocks+sun sturdymon (carbink in pu, onix in FU) + sun Volbeat + Victreebel + Sawsbuck is devastating in PU, you could throw almost any other two mons on with it and it's be good (probably something like electabuzz+DD fraxure would be just standard and broken). I don't see why the core wouldn't be more threatening in FU, where mons to take hits from Victreebel are few and easy to wear down, other than bulletproof quilladin which walls the shit out of this. Growth Vic also sounds disgusting with grass/poison coverage and sucker punch hitting practically everything (I'd say SD but no physical poison stab. Still could be good with SD/sludge bomb). I could even see sub/salac belch being an excellent cleaner, as it gets past quilladin, leaving bastiodon as the only counter (gogo diglett).
Nah Clound Nine Golduck is now the best scarfer in the tier, so I dont think Sun will be broken (it is strong tho). Quill should not be problem since Simisear is the prime fire spam mon on sun teams now that Dash is gone anyways lol.
Not every Pokemon is ranked, because we still haven't tested everything exstensively enough. Leek Duck will probably be E rank but Lunatone I could see fitting in like B- or C because it's a decent offensive/utility Pokemon.
Fletchling @
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Tailwind
- Swords Dance
- Toxic / Roost
Where is your Sun now?
Also sun is not broken while Murkrow (and to a lesser extent, Volbeat and Illumise) exists. Ditto and Dragonair are also a real threat to sun, especially the latter if not using Bellossom.
It's true that while the addition of Victreebel greatly buffed sun, there are still plenty of Pokemon found on bulky offense in particular that doesn't have nearly as much problem dealing it with. Quilladen is hilariously the best counter to Sun Bell in FU, because with its BulletProof ability it is immune to both Sludge Bomb and Weather Ball (it doesn't get Sludge Wave). It's still a huge threat to more offensive teams though, because Grass/Poison/Fire coverage is just insanely good and outside of Quil it has very little defensive answers. Sleep Powder is also a huge bitch too, as it can put anything to sleep that it can't OHKO, other than Quil.
Fletchling @
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Tailwind
- Swords Dance
- Toxic / Roost
Where is your Sun now?
Also sun is not broken while Murkrow (and to a lesser extent, Volbeat and Illumise) exists. Ditto and Dragonair are also a real threat to sun, especially the latter if not using Bellossom.
Ditto is also a fantastic check to sun. A +2 Sawsbuck in the sun is one of the most powerful Pokemon in the tier, but Ditto just laughs at it and spams Return. Sun usually lacks reliable answers to itself outside of T-Wave on Volbeat, Custap Gigalith, or maybe a Fraxure. Speaking of which, while Dragonair may be a pretty cool bulky sweeper, I just can't see it being that amazing in a Fraxure meta. It does have a significant amount of extra bulk with Marvel Scale, but Fraxure is much more immediately threatening and could potentially wreck sun teams after Volbeat is disposed of. Nair isn't strong enough to OHKO a lot of things, so it's not rare for Buck or Bellossom to get off 2 hits on it if need be. Fraxure just seems much more appealing in general.
Fletchling is indeed a very cool check to sun, but outside of that, it just seems like a very terrible Pokemon in general. Being weak to SR in a tier where hazard removers are pretty bad, very weak without a boost, and on bulky offensive teams it's just walled by soooo many things. It really needs Will-O-Wisp.
Dusclops is also an insanely annoying Pokemon for sun. It's so bulky that nothing can OHKO, let alone 2HKO without a boost, and it just burn + Seismic Toss everything to death. It resists Sludge Bomb and is immune to Sawsbuck's Return. If Bel tries putting it to Sleep, it can just Sleep Talk and Seismic Toss and still fuck it.
Speaking of which, I'm going to put Victreebel in A and Dusclops in A-. Victreebel single handedly made Sun one of the most powerful playstyles in the tier, and it's also a very useful wallbreaker, could potentially be A+ in the future. While I do think Clops is a solid A Pokemon as well, most people are very doubtful at how good it is, so I'm just leaving it there until people figure out how good it can be. Luxray will go back to B+ where it was, because it's a pretty cool wallbreaker but also a very underrated Choice Scarfer with Intimidate. Still need more testing on Chatot and Bastiodon, as well as Beeheyem.
I think Solrock does the job better, since there's more Physical Attackers than Special Attackers usually.
Leek Duck can probably hit D. If you somehow get a SD off and Brave Bird and Leaf Blade and Frustration everything lol.
Also, Furret tho. I almost lost to one xD
... In NU
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