Lynch Glacier
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Big (Official) Cyberpunk Mafia - The Many [s]Others[/s] Steamrollers Rolled Over You.
- Thread starter Aura Guardian
- Start date
I will miss you and your cousins, narwhal! :(
I am glacier about who I want to lynch.
glacier
Okay, considering various things, it's now basically decided with no true room for problems. By which I mean, we're calling it: The Many Others Win.
Postgame will take a few days.
Postgame will take a few days.
Stop trying to kill me :(
I mean, it seemed to work out this game
:D
DON'T LIKE MY POST
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Thanks for game, mods!
Aura Guardian no self promotion D:<. Or self thanking.... or whatever
EDIT: I'm talking about AG liking the post that says thanks for the game mods
EDIT: I'm talking about AG liking the post that says thanks for the game mods
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My bad I totally misread what the play was this game to make (which was all the mafias killing the village as much as possible so they lose lynch control.
Although it didn’t help that the robots or w/e dumb mafia team decided to shoot us as soon as we realized this strategy and tried to communicate it to them. zzz
Although it didn’t help that the robots or w/e dumb mafia team decided to shoot us as soon as we realized this strategy and tried to communicate it to them. zzz
AI shot you on n3 because they were convinced you had a village mole given skirting the vote so many times. I also offered not to lynch AI for two cycles if they shot Robot, which is an offer they absolutely should not have taken/attempted but it was offered and they seemed interested given the aforementioned worries. I think they also shot you n2 to try to win favor with Josh but I'm less sure on this.
Cyborgs shot you at least on n4 because their game was already lost by then and they had nothing to lose because we knew zorbees' alias and would have just lynched him if extra town had died (we had a track on him for good measure)
Not to necessarily excuse the shots, but to explain them. Either mafia are free to chime in if I'm wrong on either front
Not gonna bother waiting for postgame, just gonna post this now. This is far from organized, it's kinda just a ramble so fair warning there
A few "problems" sort of arose this game, some balance-wise, some play-wise
1. Mafia gave away way too many "mafia secrets". They told the village the sheet of roles mafia had access to, explained how night kills worked, explained how expert kills worked, etc. Night's role was sufficient to make it obvious such roles could exist, but adding in the mafia mistake of alerting the village to exactly how cheap and how relatively easily mafia could frame or godfather made the weight put into non-acid alliance checks not named Josh basically 0. This affected zorbees, pidge, and I believe jalmont, all of whom turned up town on various occasions.
2. Both AI and Robots had too similar a game plan. You can't have 3/4 factions trying to kill mafia in a village vs mafia game.They both wanted to kill a mafia or weaken it and then have the remaining mafia forces tunnel down town. This was problematic, as if you have two mafia killing mafia, and the third failing a n1 kill and then being out of contention come d4, it becomes too little too late. One team alone trying this strategy would probably not have worked anyway given the game design, but that's a different story. This got exacerbated by decent village leadership on the part of both Josh and myself exacerbating mole worries and pushing mafia v. mafia buttons, especially for nights 2-4.
3. It was way too hard to fake claim. This is an issue with any "complicated" game; there's so many factors that can either out a mole, or become inherently difficult to fake. Every mafia having 6 points makes any point check problematic, as well as doesn't give enough leeway to balance out "I am doing actions that make town think I am town" with "I am doing actions that benefit my mafia faction."
4. Related to 3, since it was so difficult to fake claim, too many players either simply claimed mafia or didn't put in diligence on keeping up appearances. That made finding remaining mafia not so hard.
5. Village had too much info. Tracks were way too cheap at 3 when mafia have a really hard time being useful while still moling, making tracks fundamentally stronger alliance checks. Making some sort of godfather to fake track targets might have been useful. Alliance check probably could have been a bit more expensive, too, but I think that the dynamics of godfathers/framers at least explain their cost being cheap, as it makes false clears/guilties more likely. Alliance check costs I think only seem as bad in the context of #1.
So I think my only inherent balance qualms were on how cheap tracks were and how hard it was to fake claim. Village info also was either too prevalent or too cheap. Giving some mafia, say, 5 points but some separate pool of points that don't show up on inspection could have gone a ways to alleviate this. With a bit less info inherently and a bit more tools for mafia to hide, village never has a full correct sheet come d4, which in a big game of 15 scum should never happen even if 6-7 of them might as well have hard claimed mafia.
I think that how badly village rolled would not have changed off of any of the balance changes made, though; I think all 3 mafia made errors that would have still probably ended in a village victory even if things were arguably more balanced, so I wouldn't worry about if the "right team won."
When you have a game this complicated, it's always going to be really difficult to find balance in it, and I don't think structurally it was so unbalanced that mafia couldn't win -- it just got exacerbated by some bad set up reads and some strategic mistakes from basically every scum team. In any event, I had fun leading and playing. Made some new friends. Thanks for designing this, AG/Blazade.
A few "problems" sort of arose this game, some balance-wise, some play-wise
1. Mafia gave away way too many "mafia secrets". They told the village the sheet of roles mafia had access to, explained how night kills worked, explained how expert kills worked, etc. Night's role was sufficient to make it obvious such roles could exist, but adding in the mafia mistake of alerting the village to exactly how cheap and how relatively easily mafia could frame or godfather made the weight put into non-acid alliance checks not named Josh basically 0. This affected zorbees, pidge, and I believe jalmont, all of whom turned up town on various occasions.
2. Both AI and Robots had too similar a game plan. You can't have 3/4 factions trying to kill mafia in a village vs mafia game.They both wanted to kill a mafia or weaken it and then have the remaining mafia forces tunnel down town. This was problematic, as if you have two mafia killing mafia, and the third failing a n1 kill and then being out of contention come d4, it becomes too little too late. One team alone trying this strategy would probably not have worked anyway given the game design, but that's a different story. This got exacerbated by decent village leadership on the part of both Josh and myself exacerbating mole worries and pushing mafia v. mafia buttons, especially for nights 2-4.
3. It was way too hard to fake claim. This is an issue with any "complicated" game; there's so many factors that can either out a mole, or become inherently difficult to fake. Every mafia having 6 points makes any point check problematic, as well as doesn't give enough leeway to balance out "I am doing actions that make town think I am town" with "I am doing actions that benefit my mafia faction."
4. Related to 3, since it was so difficult to fake claim, too many players either simply claimed mafia or didn't put in diligence on keeping up appearances. That made finding remaining mafia not so hard.
5. Village had too much info. Tracks were way too cheap at 3 when mafia have a really hard time being useful while still moling, making tracks fundamentally stronger alliance checks. Making some sort of godfather to fake track targets might have been useful. Alliance check probably could have been a bit more expensive, too, but I think that the dynamics of godfathers/framers at least explain their cost being cheap, as it makes false clears/guilties more likely. Alliance check costs I think only seem as bad in the context of #1.
So I think my only inherent balance qualms were on how cheap tracks were and how hard it was to fake claim. Village info also was either too prevalent or too cheap. Giving some mafia, say, 5 points but some separate pool of points that don't show up on inspection could have gone a ways to alleviate this. With a bit less info inherently and a bit more tools for mafia to hide, village never has a full correct sheet come d4, which in a big game of 15 scum should never happen even if 6-7 of them might as well have hard claimed mafia.
I think that how badly village rolled would not have changed off of any of the balance changes made, though; I think all 3 mafia made errors that would have still probably ended in a village victory even if things were arguably more balanced, so I wouldn't worry about if the "right team won."
When you have a game this complicated, it's always going to be really difficult to find balance in it, and I don't think structurally it was so unbalanced that mafia couldn't win -- it just got exacerbated by some bad set up reads and some strategic mistakes from basically every scum team. In any event, I had fun leading and playing. Made some new friends. Thanks for designing this, AG/Blazade.
Your absolutely right. I had no idea what i was doing when I did that. I basically regret everything I did this game. Wish I was village.
it's all good bro it happens. just gotta learn from your mistakes!