NU Discussion Thread (Mark II)

[wavedash]

Sub + Three attack sets are usually good. Thunderbolt is an option in the last slot. Basically a more reliable Thunderbolt, hits Walrein hard(er).

 

[M BLADE]

Ohh shit. Forgot Thunderbolt, the sole reason why Magmortar is so hard to wall (and useable in other tiers).
Yeah, Thunderbolt can go into the last slot.

 

[Lucalibur]

took SR into account when making the calc? with SR it 2hko, and no one use cradily lead.

 

[M BLADE]

I mentioned full health there.
So, no.

Well, adding the 12% of the SR switch and Leftovers, it has chances of survining/getting KOed (i'm just bad at this).
Of course, you need to hit Cradily on the switch with the right move that has 70% accuracy. Twice.
But it''s a possible scenario, and Focus Blast can 2HKO Cradily. Again, i'm just bad at making "odds", so...

 

[Adonzo]

I'm fairly certain that Mazaki Anzu is the same person as that Riverside character who frequented the NU forums a while back. Essentially got banned for repeatedly making nonsensical arguments plugging his favorite useless pokes.

In short, don't feed the trolls.

 

[lacerta]

BU/Rest/STalk/Facade with HP Grass Skuntank?

I used to use a Bulk Up Resttalk Ursaring with Return, 252HP 252SpD 4Spe and an Adamant nature. Paired with Skuntank for Ghosts, and a mixed wall Slowking (we miss you xoxo) for Fighting-types, it was actually pretty effective.
Sleep Talking Rest seven times in a row wasn't much fun, but apart from that...

 

[Al_Alchemist]

are you sure now? because focus blast from modest life orb magmortar 2hko cradily(sandstorm), same results with cross chop.

I mostly meant for the Life Orb set only, the scarf and specs shouldn't really be locked on a move that is meant for a few specific Pokemon nor do they really have the EVs (plus life orb aid) to support it.

Focus Blast is probably best on a Specs set. On a Scarf or Life Orb set, Earthquake, Cross Chop, and Focus Blast are kind of equally good.

Yeah, this, sort of, they each take care of their own different threats.

Well... i went to verify, and Modest Focus Blast does 44.1% - 52.1% to 252/252 Careful Cradily on Sandstorm. Full health, and Cradily does not get 2HKOed. And Focus Blast isn't what i would call reliable too.
Even worse because Sandstorm helps to worn Magmortar down.

took SR into account when making the calc? with SR it 2hko, and no one use cradily lead.

Rapid spinning could help with that. Cradily has about a 25% chance of surviving from a 2HKO with Leftovers and Stealth Rock assuming focus blast hits twice, which is admittedly pretty slim. However, Focus blast hitting twice within the sufficient damage ratio is fairly risky as well.

I mentioned full health there.
So, no.

Well, adding the 12% of the SR switch and Leftovers, it has chances of survining/getting KOed (i'm just bad at this).
Of course, you need to hit Cradily on the switch with the right move that has 70% accuracy. Twice.
But it''s a possible scenario, and Focus Blast can 2HKO Cradily. Again, i'm just bad at making "odds", so...

Assuming that Rash 252 SpAtk LO Focus Blast hits both times WITH Stealth Rock + Leftovers, there is still a chance that it will not 2HKO Cradily. When factoring in EVERYTHING (accuracy, damage ratios, sr, leftovers) Magmortar only has around a measly 27-36% chance to 2HKO Cradily with Focus Blast.

While assuming Rash 76 atk LO Cross Chop hits both times WITHOUT stealth rock (but with leftovers), it will ALWAYS 2HKO Cradily. Factoring in Cross Chop's accuracy, it is a 64% chance of a 2HKO on Cradily.

Reversely, RestTalk Cradily has a 36.9% chance of OHKO'ing Rash (-SpDef) Magmortar with Rock Slide with SR, Sandstorm, and Accuracy taken into account. 100% counting Life Orb recoil for Magmortar along with all the previous conditions, so it would be most ideal to catch Cradily on the switch, although that is easier said than done.

So if your relying on LO Focus Blast to 2HKO Cradily, expect to be disappointed, while LO Cross Chop offers at least around twice the reliability of a 2HKO on an unboosted Cradily, which is a big enough threat for it to be reasonably accounted for.

Exact calcs on chance of Focus Blast 2HKOing with SR, help check my math please :P

Hmm, ugh this is probably one of my first times doing this, but if my calculations are correct, Modest LO Max SpAtk Focus Blast Magmortar either has a 36.98% or 27.91% of 2HKO'ing Cradily, factoring in EVERYTHING (SR, Accuracy, Damage Ratios from Attacks, Leftovers). Can someone please help me check my math I'm not sure which percent it is or if it is even either of them. :O

I used .7 * .7 to get 49% (two consecutive Focus Blast hits chance) then I got the chance of a 2HKO with SR + Leftovers from libelldra damage calculator 75.48%. I then did .49 * .7548 to get 36.98%. However, I'm not sure if I have to multiply the 2HKO chance (ignoring accuracy) twice as I'm not sure how libelldra calculates the 2HKO chance though I'm pretty sure it is that way. Ugh tired, please save me math wizards ;O;!

 

[Mazaki Anzu]

Bulk Up Ursaring doesn't sound bad, since it's defenses are actually quite good. The only problem is coverage, though. He might be able to pull off a Curselax or something like that.

I've used Bulk up ursaring before, but without toxic orb or anything. It's cool because when you set up you know the foe can't toxic/wow you or he's fucked.

It's an ok set.

Debatable. Ask Gengar.

Well, hypnosis its a pretty cool move on things like Purugly, Persian or Yanmega. I don't see why in a bulky pokemon it would be worse than in frail ones.

Sucks, doesn't it? Yes.

NO.

P-haze it's quite overrated. Haze it's ok.

So your opponents stop attacking you. Wow, I had no idea such a move existed!

Stop =/= being more cautious

And here I thought we were countering Magmortar.

Yeah, but i didnt came with the primape comparison :o

I'm not sure what you're luring and why.

Read.

I'm fairly certain that Mazaki Anzu is the same person as that Riverside character who frequented the NU forums a while back. Essentially got banned for repeatedly making nonsensical arguments plugging his favorite useless pokes.

In short, don't feed the trolls.

Got b&? lol

Last thing I remember doing in NU forums was saying that Dodrio owned 99.9% of that failed metagame, when Dodrio usage was not high.

Oh, the irony.

 

[wavedash]

It's pretty obvious the person you're arguing with is a troll if they don't address people accusing them of being a troll. Protip: when people figure out you're trolling, quote their post and pick out some unrelated mistake they made and make fun of them until they ragequit.

Also, lol unboosted Cradily. Best leave that for something like Primape, Magmortar is either set-up fodder or killed by Rock Slide.

 

[Ice-eyes]

252/252 Sandstorm Cradily is not really a problem. It's ruined by Fighting-type attackers, it's ruined by Encore, and it makes you carry Hippopotas which, frankly, is awful - especially when considering the sheer volume of bulky Ground-types in NU (Nidoqueen has much better bulk, Sandslash has better stats and Rapid Spin, Gligar has a way better typing).

 

[anduril38]

Eww, pure example of an originality whore three posts up :/

I've been out of the loop of NU for a long time. Can somebody fill me in?

 

[Calm Pokemaster]

252/252 Sandstorm Cradily is not really a problem. It's ruined by Fighting-type attackers, it's ruined by Encore, and it makes you carry Hippopotas which, frankly, is awful - especially when considering the sheer volume of bulky Ground-types in NU (Nidoqueen has much better bulk, Sandslash has better stats and Rapid Spin, Gligar has a way better typing).

Encore really screws it up, since the standard Sleep Talk set has 3 non offensive moves which it can be Encored into. Other sets, like the Support sets, or Swords Dance, can also be countered with Encore(maybe locking it into SD or Earthquake). The only thing Cradily has on its side is that it cant be Roared away.

 

[wavedash]

Cradily also has ridiculous defenses after one Curse.

 

[PK Gaming]

You know what's an awesome pokemon?!?

Minun. This thing is simply kickass.
It's the only pokemon in the entire tier that learns Nasty Plot AND Agility AND Baton Pass. I've baton passed Nasty Plots and Agility to stuff like Magmortar for an outright sweep. This thing's also decently bulky when it put it's mind to it (IE lots of defensive EV's... speed isn't a problem with Agility)

Seriously, simply passing an Agility is good enough for a sweep because stuff like Magmortar becomes incredibly difficult to stop. More people should give that pokemon a try because it's an awesome support pokemon.

(Electric types are so cool no?)

 

[wavedash]

Minun isn't awesome. It just has monopoly on the Nasty Plot Baton Passing department so it can afford to have shitty stats and a thread-bare movepool and still be cool.

Also Magnet Rise.

 

[Chispy]

Baton Pass a Magnet Rise to Magmortar, lol.

 

[PK Gaming]

Huh? Why would I do that? Earthquake is pretty rare in NU... I'm just mucking around but teams are hard pressed to stop Agility-Plot Magmortar without some serious priority. Scarf user's are soundly outspeed too, so team's relying on their speed to beat Magmortar are in the red.

Minun's bulk isn't even that bad when you invest loads of defensive EV's.

 

[Chispy]

I was just kidding, heh. Since Magnet Rise was randomly mentioned.

 

[Mazaki Anzu]

Eww, pure example of an originality whore three posts up :/

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/6112/12312312.png

Hey, don't be mean

Can somebody fill me in?

I lol'd

You know what's an awesome pokemon?!?

Minun. This thing is simply kickass.
It's the only pokemon in the entire tier that learns Nasty Plot AND Agility AND Baton Pass. I've baton passed Nasty Plots and Agility to stuff like Magmortar for an outright sweep. This thing's also decently bulky when it put it's mind to it (IE lots of defensive EV's... speed isn't a problem with Agility)

Seriously, simply passing an Agility is good enough for a sweep because stuff like Magmortar becomes incredibly difficult to stop. More people should give that pokemon a try because it's an awesome support pokemon.

(Electric types are so cool no?)

I've used Minun mainly in RuSa, but I've used it a bit in DPPT also.

My Minun set was Wish/protect/t-bolt (or Seismic toss, dont remember) and encore/toxic. It was a good defensive (special) pokemon in my experience.

I haven't tried the baton pass set but it doesnt convince me. Don't you need one agility AND one nasty plot to set up magmortar as a killing machine?

 

[Away]

I haven't tried the baton pass set but it doesnt convince me. Don't you need one agility AND one nasty plot to set up magmortar as a killing machine?

Magmortar has fantastic base Sp.Atk for NU, I think you could get off just Passing an Agility. If you do get lucky with a NP though.....

 

[wavedash]

Nasty Plot is needed for a sweep, since you opponent can just sacrifice some critter with 2 HP left and switch in, say, Politoed.

Near the end-game, though, you can probably get away with just an Agility.

 

[xdevo13]

I've been seeing a lot of Lapras recently other than the great Ice Water Electric coverage that it gets, why is it so popular, specifically in a metagame filled with ScarfApe?

 

[Ice-eyes]

Because it's absurdly bulky, and because Medicham is down in usage with Slowking and Miltank out.

 

[EpicTurtle]

Any one try phione? It's got decent stats (80 on all) good typing, a vast move pool and a great ability. I use it in rain dance teams since it can pretty much just use rest as a healing move and you can run something like rest/surf/grass knot/ hp electric, ice beam or *insert coverage move here*

 

[Pancham]

You should update the NU threats list. A couple of them, namely Leafeon, have been deemed UU.