yes it is an amazing ability, but with toxic, trappers like heatran, and stealth rock, there is a lot of hurt being played especially against opposing weather.
edit: Mamoswine? I was thinking about using weavile after a death lol
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np: BW OU Suspect Testing Round 9 - Rock You Like a Hurricane
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edit: Mamoswine? I was thinking about using weavile after a death lol
You cant easily just toxic Tornadus-T, he can just u-turn out with that amazing speed.
Lavos
Banned deucer.
As a player who's dedicated countless hours of his life over the past six months to BW2, I can say with complete certainty that Rain is the best weather out there right now. Sand and Sun are both several steps behind, with Sand maintaining the slight edge over Sun due to Hippowdon's high viability in the current metagame. Rain is easier teambuilding, I agree with you there. However, it also makes for a better team. Under Rain, the biggest offensive threats to the metagame can be utilized most effectively. I'm talking about Tornadus-T, Thundurus-T. Keldeo, Scizor, and Breloom specifically, all of which gain some sort of benefit from Rain that the other two commonly used weathers do not grant them. Rain has been the best weather since the beginning of BW2 (or I guess since Keldeo's release six days later). Sun actually managed to eclipse Sand for the title of second-best weather back when Genesect was still around, but those days are long gone. Anyways, the point is that people use Rain the most not because it's the easiest sort of team to make (though it is), but because it's the best way to abuse the five biggest current metagame threats.
Agree with Lavos Spawn. Rain has higher threats and type advantage over both sun and sand.
What separates Tornadus-T is the ability to outlive all of its "counters". No other Pokemon in OU gets the combo of threatening stab, decent power, amazing speed, and good recovery JUST from swtiching out. You keep saying you can revenge it, but there really isn't anyway you can stop it from simply switching out.
Lavos
Banned deucer.
Also, Low Sweep Breloom doesn't beat Tornadus-T, it just lets your opponent know you have Low Sweep. Say I have a Torn-T, the opponent has a Breloom out, I've already sleep-foddered my Politoed so now I go into Torn-T to attempt to prevent the Breloom from setting up. It uses Low Sweep and brings me down to around 60% health. My Speed is now lower than that of the (presumably) Jolly Breloom that just hit me. Am I going to stay in and let the obvious Stone Edge come, even if Tornadus-T staying alive is critical to my team's success? No. This strategy of Breloom supposedly "beating" Torn-T relies on the opponent being an incompetent fool. Not a great plan.
I second this. You know that something needs to go if you have to rely on a revenge killer to get rid of it completely. Sure, jirachi and rotom-w can "wall" it, but all it has to do is switch out with u-turn and bam here comes something to combat that counter.
While a number of people have no problem battling tornadus-t, a good number of people do, and this is what's sparking the discussion here. This is going to be like a presidential election: Democrats vs Republicans. And then the people who act as intermediaries and the people who don't take a side but participate regardless.
Well, heatran could trap it and toxic it to death w/ other attacks. It resists the flying type Hurricane. Terrakion scarf is a serious threat. Thunderous-t is a huge threat. Jirachi can paralyse it with Thunder. These pokes aren't uber and they leave dents galore into Tornadus. Paralasis kills its ability to outspeed. Trapping for five turns, it will be dead on the fourth tops. There are many viable pokes that can scarf and kill. Not trying to be rude, but Torn is not a Genesect. Without Rain, he is useless. Heatran cnn even kill Poli if played right. If poli is dead, Torn is scared because no poli=no rain. Then again, Torn-t + Dugtrio isn't that threatening in the first place. Dugtrio can be OHKO'd on switch (w/ rocks or spikes). There are many perks! and many flaws. You see Torn switches in, is hit by rocks and the enemy attack, witch could be fatal. It can kill most, but most cnn kill it. Don't ban Torn... seriously.
Tornadus has Superpower. Bye Heatran. Youre never paralysing it unless he lets you. Pls dont bring in Magma storm if thats waht you mean by trapping. Also how does heatran beat politoed? inst it 2hkoed by scald and ohkoed by all other water moves? inst Politoed usuall bulk? Tornadus has no flaws other than low defenses.
Heatran beats Politoed by Magma Storming on the switch to Politoed. Sunny Day on Politoed's Scald and then Solarbeam. Trapper Tran is actually quite common on Sun teams nowadays
Thats the most lol set i have ever read though.
Dragonuser's RMT
And it's on Heatran's Analysis page and I am just guessing but might be his 2nd or 3rd most common set after Specially Defensive and Scarf. So I don't see how it's a "lol" set when it is one of his most efficient sets? Effectively helps sun win weather wars against both sand and rain. Sorry for being off-topic
Lavos
Banned deucer.
Yeah definitely not a "lol set", it was created by Tobes and used by team USA East in the most recent World Cup and they had flying success with the thing. Probably the single most effective set to eliminate Politoed that the metagame has ever seen. If there's one sure way to make Tornadus-T laughable, it's trapping and killing Politoed with Heatran, then bringing in the Sun. 50% accurate Hurricane is a joke. The AcroBat set has a field day with Sun teams, but that's rarely seen.
@SmashBros: He's not talking about the on-site analysis, look at the Heatran set in the RMT that he linked.
Ok sorry. Still if heatran becomes a threat people can start using rain dance tornadus t too.
Lavos
Banned deucer.
People do use Rain Dance Tornadus-T, one of those such people being myself. I've often found that the standard Rain Offense team these days is extremely weak to a simple combination of Ninetales, Dugtrio, and Venusaur, so for the fourth moveslot on my LO Torn-T I run Rain Dance, seeing as most Sun teams' only check to the bird is sending in their SDef Ninetales and praying for a Hurricane miss. If I Rain Dance as they send in their Ninetales to try to get Sun up and lower Hurricane's accuracy to 50%, the opponent is essentially forced to sacrifice something to the bird and try again. Underrated fourth move in my opinion.
252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-T Focus Blast vs. 52 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 289-341 (86.01 - 101.48%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Heatran Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Tornadus-T: 186-220 (62.2 - 73.57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I fail to see how Heatran is stopping Tornadus-T at all. Tornadus-T doesn't even have to switch out since you can't kill it. And if you over-predicted and went for the Magma Storm, then ...
252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Tornadus-T in rain: 118-141 (39.46 - 47.15%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
You're missing the context. Heatran is not trying to go toe-to-toe with Tornadus-T; it's instead going to wait for an opportune moment to lure in Politoed (like, say, against a Scizor or something). It neuters Tornadus-T's Hurricanes by taking permarain out of the equation. It's an indirect answer to Tornadus-T, not something you leave in on it.
Although even then Rain Dance Tornadus-T is a real asshole to the set.
Although even then Rain Dance Tornadus-T is a real asshole to the set.
I find it really amusing if you still can't find a way to deal with T-T despite changing the weather and all the counters people are listing. Let's get this show on the road. The good players will qualify, leave the thing in OU and move on with all of our lives.
ohh, and all of you saing Jirachi loses to Dugtrio? Sash Dugtrio can't even frigging beat Jirachi. Smart Jirachi players Body Slam the switch then follow with an Iron Head. Paralysis or not, Duggy doesn't come close to OHKOing Jirachi and is 2HKOed by any attack.
ohh, and all of you saing Jirachi loses to Dugtrio? Sash Dugtrio can't even frigging beat Jirachi. Smart Jirachi players Body Slam the switch then follow with an Iron Head. Paralysis or not, Duggy doesn't come close to OHKOing Jirachi and is 2HKOed by any attack.
Please try not to sound so condescending when your aren't really adding much to the discussion.
In the situation of Jirachi vs Dugtrio, if Dugtrio gets an Earthquake, you just lost your Tornadus-T counter. Even though Dugtrio didn't kill Jirachi, Jirachi is crippled to the point of not being able to switch into Tornadus-T anymore, hence Tornadus-T outliving its counter.
Stone RG
Megas are broke
So youre saying with hole security that Torn T will be left in OU? At least half of us here want the thing out of the tier, and also most of us are already getting reqs (off topic but still, makes me mad people say Bird is going to be voted OU just because they think theyre opinion is completely right.
Also, all the methods you have mentioned of dealing with Big Bird, namely ''hard countering'' (which i find impossible out of SpD rachi), lose just by having rocks up due to its fast U-turns. Changing the weather? Welp, let me tell you TTar gets smashed by Superpower and Specs FB (after rocks and no Chople), Tales is a much better switch-in, except for, oh what was its name? Oh Stealth Rock, and it STILL doesnt like taking Superpower, plus losing 1v1 against Politoed, Abomasnow? rly do i have to explain it? Hippowdon is arguably the best answer you have when it comes to change weather, except the Sp defensive set still 2HKOd by LO hurricane,
and youre planning to switch to ANOTHER thing to take a hit after, yea good luck next time bird comes in again.
Now changing subject i find pony quite an overpowering force on the ladder, since it doesnt ''need'' rain to function properly, which differentiates it from Torn, rather what it needs is just one poke: CB tar, which just destroys every one of its counters as already mentioned a lot of times. Im really looking forward to its ban.
EDIT: forgot to say, not all jirachi run body slam, and, who the fuck switches duggy into Rachi wasting its sash?, seems assuming the opponent is a moron.
Why has this yet to happen to my Jirachi?
My condescending tone is just a reflection of the quality of the uber arguments here. No one has explained how Tornadus-T is sweeping a large portion of the metagame with little support or providing an unfair support characteristic to allow another pokemon to sweep. If anything, this thing needs support of other pokemon to accomplish this task, LOL (Ironic, huh?). "Outlasting its counters" doesn't qualify as either argument. It sounds like smart pokemon to me, not a cry for Ubers.
No one is even talking about the Pony man.. the thing has hardeER counters than Tornadus-T. It's good to invest in a Celebi / Jellicent / Lati@ / Tentacruel and you never fear this cute little thing. Saying "CB Tar counters all of Keldeo's counters" doesn't qualify as an Uber argument either. Again, smart pokemon play.. using something to remove counters. We can play that all day. Drag-mag means Dragonite is the next suspect, right?!
Neliel
Sacred Sword
Dugtrio barely does 60, and with protect + leftovers jirachi can even avoid the to 2ko.
Anyway you cant say "rachi is trapped by dugtrio" to ban tornadus, jirachi does not give a shit about tornadus and it can counter it all day.
Also, just look at the set on the signature of raikoulover; you are saying that tornadus-t should be banned because it has no counters, lol then tell me a counter for that Salamence. Seriously if you find one thing that can counter it then ill vote tornadus uber.
Anyway you cant say "rachi is trapped by dugtrio" to ban tornadus, jirachi does not give a shit about tornadus and it can counter it all day.
Also, just look at the set on the signature of raikoulover; you are saying that tornadus-t should be banned because it has no counters, lol then tell me a counter for that Salamence. Seriously if you find one thing that can counter it then ill vote tornadus uber.
I just spent a few games using this thing and this thing is just as powerful as venusaur in sun and just as powerful as stoutland/sandslash in sand. This isnt an uber pokemon. If you have problems with it then maybe we should test rain because honestly it is a liability outside of rain.
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