My most often used OU team

[Xing]

The result is mixed. Sometimes I go on winning streaks but other times I go on losing streaks. It's one of my better teams but I'm an average player so I'm sure a lot can be improved.

CHANGE #3: Took out Grass Knot on Meta for Shadow Ball. May switch Shadow Ball or HP: Fire to Explosion or Stealth Rock.

CHANGE #2: Took out Tbolt on Gengar for Destiny Bond. Contemplating taking out Trick and put back Tbolt or HP: Ice.

CHANGE #1: I took out the following Forretress for Celebi:

@ Leftovers
Sturdy / Impish
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Spe / 252 SpD
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Explosion

At a glance:

Lead:

@ Expert Belt
Clear Body / Naughty
EVs: 176 Atk / 200 SpA / 132 Spe
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power: Fire
- Shadow Ball

I <3 my MixGross as always. Originally I used Smogon's spread for it but I find its SpA to be too low since it does ~40% damage to SpD variants of Skarmory with HP Fire and ~70% to Swamperts with Grass Knot. But I didn't actually do calculations with this spread so it's rather arbitrary. I would appreciate it if someone would do some calculations for me.

Its function is to counter some common leads and surprise some players. It can effective counter lead Swampert, Forretress, Hippowdon, Aerodactyl, Metagross, Tyranitar, Jirachi, Machamp, Scizor, and some Azelfs, which can be taken care of my Tyranitar.

I have be thinking about taking out Grass Knot or HP Fire for Shadow Ball for those pesky Rotoms. But then again I have Gengar and Tyranitar to handle them, although they like to burn my Tyranitar... Thought?

Wallbreaker:

@ Leftovers
Sand Veil / Jolly
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Taunt
- Roost

Standard annoying Gliscor. This thing can handle Flygon and Dragonite among other Pokemon that give the rest of my team trouble. Taunt takes care of those pesky walls that like to use Toxic and Thunder Wave. Then I proceed to Toxic or EQ any non-offensive wall that isn't Weezing or Skarmory. Taunt also helps to prevent Pokemon like Suicune, Gyarados, and Snorlax from setting up, albeit at the cost of severe damage or death for Gliscor. Its defensive prowess is also useful as it allows to wall things such as Scizor. Not much else can be said about this sexy bat.

Some users have suggested that I put Taunt on Gyarados. If that's the case, then I either need to change Gliscor's moveset & EVs or take it out of my team.

Nutritious support:

@ Leftovers
Natural Cure / Calm
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD
- Stealth Rock
- Heal Bell
- Grass Knot
- Thunderwave

My newest addition to the team. Stealth Rock is necesary because it replaced Forretress, my previous Stealth Rocker. Grass Knot over Leaf Storm because Celebi is meant to kill Suicune, my biggest threat. Also I am considering switching to Leaf Storm because of Pokemon such as Vaporeon. Heal Bell is used to revitalize my team, which will fail if crippled by paralysis or burn. As for the last spot, I chose thunderwave over another attacking move because I feel my team needs to outspeed, especially Metagross who doesn't have Agility, as much as possible.

The EVs and nature give me the most pain. I took out Forretress, a physical wall, for a special wall. I feel that my team might be weak physically, since my Gliscor is more speed orientated than defense orientated. Therefore, I'm not sure what EVs and Nature to give it. I want it to wall special attackers such as Suicune but I also want it to do what Forretress did.

This Pokemon definitely suffers from the 4-moveslot syndrome. I really want to put moves such as Earth Power, Hidden Power, and U-Turn on it. Suggestions are needed.

Speedy spinblocker:

@ Choice Scarf
Levitate / Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Trick
- Destiny Bond

Gengar fills 3 roles: spinblocker, revenge killer, and "outspeeder." With Scarf, its speed reaches a whooping 525, outspeeding Scarfgon and even Gyarados/Dragonite after 2 Dragon Dances. Since my team generally lack speed, the Scarf version of Gengar is absolutely necessary to outspeed the threats aforementioned. Trick is for Blissey and other walls. Thunderbolt is probably my best option again bulky waters, which is very problematic to my team. Focus Blast neuters Tyranitars. Rotom cannot replace Gengar on my team simply because it cannot outspeed as many things as Gengar can.

Sweeper:

@ Leftovers
Intimidate / Adamant
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Bounce

This is a sweeper like no other. After 2 DDance, it can wipe the floor with anything not named Jirachi or Skarmory at full health. I chose not to invest in defenses because I feel the speed is vital in outspeeding opposing Gyarados and Scarftrans, among other Pokemon. This has proven to be useful, although I'm thinking of sacrificing just a bit of speed for Def so it can take more Bullet Punches from Scizor. Stone Edge murders Zapdos, opposing Gyas, and almost all flying types. Bounce is probably the best part of the set. So many times have people switched in Celebi and Shaymin on a DDance and then stare in horror and this fish springs into the sky. Same can be applied, to an extent, to a Breloom as long as it doesn't Substitute. Bounce can also deal substantial damage to Bulky waters after a DDance.

Gyarados is a necessary physical sweeper on my team because it's not as slow as Metagross and it's not limited to one move like Tyranitar.

Should I use Bulkydos with Taunt instead?

Ghost (and Psychic) Killer:

@ Choice Scarf
Sand Stream / Jolly
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Pursuit

Standard Scarfgar. This thing takes care of Pokemon that none of my Pokemon can handle. It traps annoying Rotoms that come in and ruin my Meta's fun and gets rid of sweeping Starmies and Gengars. But I've noticed that I've been having trouble against Breloom and I'm thinking of replacing Pursuit with Aerial Ace since I find myself using Crunch a lot more than Pursuit. EQ over Superpower because I find Superpower to be inferior in all situations except against opposing Ttars, Flygons, and Blisseys.

It also serves the role of weather ruiner. Those cursed rain dance teams just love to sweep but not if I have my Tyranitar! Same with Hail teams and those SHITTY STALLREINS! Nothing makes me happier than stomp some Walreins into walrus stew.

And obviously, it provides Sandstorm for my Gliscor's Sand Veil.

So that's my team and the following are threats I've noted:

1. Suicune. MOTHAF'ING SUICUNE. My team is weak against Bulky waters and Suicune is the worst of them all. Not only does it have gargantuan defenses but it also has Calm Mind, Rest and moves that can easily destroy my team. I have to rely on Gengar's TBolt and Trick, and Forretress' Explosion to do something against it.

2. Vaporeon. See Suicune, but to a lesser extent.

3. Breloom. How I hate this thing! Spore automatically neuters on my Pokemon and with Substitute, it can do huge damage to all my Pokemon. I'm thinking of putting Aerial Ace on Ttar just for this thing.

4. Dragonite. It's worse if it has Fire Blast to kill my Forretress and Meta. Gengar can still outspeed it and Gliscor can beat it in some circumstances and Gyarados and deal some damage but that's about it. I don't reallyt have any direct way to counter this thing, although it's not as big of a threat as the above 3.

5. Jolteon. Because of Meta's Naughty nature, TBolt does a shit load of damage to it. Gengar, although can outspeed but not usually OHKO, gets killed in 1 shot. Same with Gya. Forretress can only take 2 shots, but it's slow and have to be a full health. Ttar can take 3 shots, so it must be high/full health to take 2 shots from Jolteon. Gliscor gets whooped by HP Ice.

 

[Ezio28]

i'm no expert either, but i found aerial ace to be a blessing on my Ttar. I suggest it especially since breloom suffers a 4x weakness to it. If i'm really worried about combating breloom with Ttar, i sometimes have a Lum berry so i can catch the other guy off gaurd and quickly dispose of breloom with Aeriel Ace, even if he uses spore. Though in my case i'm baton passing so i already have the speed.

Also, my metagross has ice punch so he can deal with guys like dragonite. Ice punch is generally a great offensive type.

btw, i also get 4-slto syndrome when making a forretress.

I don't knwo if i helped, but...o well, i'm new gotta start somewhere i guess.

 

[Xing]

Thanks.

Anyone else?

 

[deinosaur]

I have carefully analyzed this team's weaknesses. It fairs well against SR with only gyas being weak to it, 2 pokes weak to spikes but 3 immune, you do get lots of 0x damage on switch ins but 4 of your pokemon have a 4x weakness, meaning a bad prediction can mean bye bye to someone. Another thing to consider is a cleric for the status that may hinder your team. I might suggest
Celebi@Leftovers
252 HP, 216 SpD, 40 SpA
Calm nature +SpD -Atk
Heal Bell/Perish Song/Grass Knot/U-Turn
it can dish some damage to bulky waters and pHaze set ups with perish song, and get a guaranteed win against last poke comebacks.
I would switch this with either forretress or gliscor because you don't need 2 physical walls on the same team

Overall a good team except you lack the ability to take many special hits, except if you made meta and gyas bulkier. I see that you are more physically oriented which means if metagross bites the dust, gengar will then be forced to remove physical walls. If a player manages to defeat metagross and destroy gengar once it has given away it's choice scarf with azelf, the team can essentially be ripped apart by azelf with flamethrower, ice beam, thunderbolt and psychic. Leaving tyranitar to be perish songed as a last poke comeback.

 

[ExaltedRequiem]

Hey I know froe Is good nut your team dosemt look that weak to sr/spikes you might Wanamaker try out some one els maby scizor (same type) other than that your team looks preety solid

As far as I can tell, he was saying that although Fortress is good, that your team isn't that weak to spikes/SR and you might possibly want to try Scizor in it's place, especially considering they share a typing, and that your team looks to be solid otherwise.

Putting aside whatever the hell the shiny shuckle said, onto my actual rate. The team looks pretty solid, but I've got a couple things that might help.
1- It looks as though your Meta's main problems come from the -SpD on its nature. I'd say switch to Brave (+Atk -Def). Your offenses stay where they are, and you get another 10% onto the defensive stat you seem to need more.
2- You might want to test Taunt on Gyarados, probably over Stone Edge. With Taunt, setting up multiple Dragon Dances on the likes of Skarm, Blissey, Swampert, Breloom that lack Stone Edge, RestTalk users (Hi, Suicune), Bulky Waters in general (Hi, Suicune and Vaporeon), and various other critters, like Swords Dance Scizor.
3- Continuing the theme of Gyarados suggestions, might I suggest an alternate EV spread of 156 HP/72 Atk/96 Def/184 Spe. It might be straight from the Smogon set, but that spread has proven itself time and time again. The extra bulk goes a long way with Leftovers and Taunt to help you get more Dragon Dances, which more than makes up for the drops in Attack and Speed.

Other than that the team looks pretty good. Just some things to consider.
Also, since I'm just now thinking about it, how does your team handle Kingdra? If you have no real Dragonite counter (other than Scarf Gengar to check it), Kingdra would tear the team apart, either Dragon Dancing or on a Specs set. Just one more thing to think about.

 

[Xing]

I have carefully analyzed this team's weaknesses. It fairs well against SR with only gyas being weak to it, 2 pokes weak to spikes but 3 immune, you do get lots of 0x damage on switch ins but 4 of your pokemon have a 4x weakness, meaning a bad prediction can mean bye bye to someone. Another thing to consider is a cleric for the status that may hinder your team. I might suggest
Celebi@Leftovers
252 HP, 216 SpD, 40 SpA
Calm nature +SpD -Atk
Heal Bell/Perish Song/Grass Knot/U-Turn
it can dish some damage to bulky waters and pHaze set ups with perish song, and get a guaranteed win against last poke comebacks.
I would switch this with either forretress or gliscor because you don't need 2 physical walls on the same team

I like the idea, but I'm really unsure what to take out. If I take out Gliscor, then I will have 3 Fire weak Pokemon. If I take out Forrtress, I won't have a Poke to set up Rocks and spinner. If I were to make Pokemon switches, I have to make 2 at once.

Overall a good team except you lack the ability to take many special hits, except if you made meta and gyas bulkier. I see that you are more physically oriented which means if metagross bites the dust, gengar will then be forced to remove physical walls. If a player manages to defeat metagross and destroy gengar once it has given away it's choice scarf with azelf, the team can essentially be ripped apart by azelf with flamethrower, ice beam, thunderbolt and psychic. Leaving tyranitar to be perish songed as a last poke comeback.

I don't understand what you're saying. Azelf doesn't learn Ice Beam and Tyranitar kills it, and what's that with Perish Song?

As far as I can tell, he was saying that although Fortress is good, that your team isn't that weak to spikes/SR and you might possibly want to try Scizor in it's place, especially considering they share a typing, and that your team looks to be solid otherwise.

Putting aside whatever the hell the shiny shuckle said, onto my actual rate. The team looks pretty solid, but I've got a couple things that might help.
1- It looks as though your Meta's main problems come from the -SpD on its nature. I'd say switch to Brave (+Atk -Def). Your offenses stay where they are, and you get another 10% onto the defensive stat you seem to need more.
2- You might want to test Taunt on Gyarados, probably over Stone Edge. With Taunt, setting up multiple Dragon Dances on the likes of Skarm, Blissey, Swampert, Breloom that lack Stone Edge, RestTalk users (Hi, Suicune), Bulky Waters in general (Hi, Suicune and Vaporeon), and various other critters, like Swords Dance Scizor.
3- Continuing the theme of Gyarados suggestions, might I suggest an alternate EV spread of 156 HP/72 Atk/96 Def/184 Spe. It might be straight from the Smogon set, but that spread has proven itself time and time again. The extra bulk goes a long way with Leftovers and Taunt to help you get more Dragon Dances, which more than makes up for the drops in Attack and Speed.

Other than that the team looks pretty good. Just some things to consider.
Also, since I'm just now thinking about it, how does your team handle Kingdra? If you have no real Dragonite counter (other than Scarf Gengar to check it), Kingdra would tear the team apart, either Dragon Dancing or on a Specs set. Just one more thing to think about.

Having Taunt on 2 Pokemon might be awkward. Stone Edge does a really good job at 1) OHKOing flying Pokemon such as Zapdos and Dragonite and 2) have another move ready to use besides Waterfall. I might try out that spread but I'm skeptical of the Atk loss. If I were to use the spread and Taunt, I'd have to take out Gliscor for something else.

Kingdra bites, but it's not a top threat. Tyranitar, at full health, can beat Kingdra one on one. Gyarados can take 2 or 3 hits and fire back with Stone Edge or Bounce. Gengar outspeeds it. Forretress and Metagross can take a hit if not in the rain.

It is imperative that Meta outspeeds Scizor, so brave nature is out of the question.

EDIT: How come threads on Smogon forum get so many views but disproportionally low number of replies?

 

[helpiswellreceived]

Hey ive got a nice addition to you Gengar than can solve the problems (Bulky waters). Seen as Gengar outspeeds most of your top threats, may i suggest Destiny Bond, it can be a crazy and risky move to pull out of the bag, but not many people expect it from Gengar anymore. It can really surprise and income wall, If you have been previously made weak, and the incoming pokemon is designed to take you hit and finish you off, You use Destiny Bond and drag down this wall with you :)

 

[Declanp]

I'm not a team rater..so take this rate lightly...

Well first..IMO, your team doesnt need Rapid spin(especially if you use bulkydos) which makes forry kinda deadweight. And really feel this team could you something to deal with bulky waters in general. So i would probably recommend celebi with some sort of support set. (SR/t-wave/grass knot/u-turn?) dont ask EVs since i suck in general with them.

I also second the switch to BulkyTauntDos

one more thing...you could try taking trick out of gengar since gliscor has walls (read:blissey) covered. HP [ice/dragon] depending how much you want coverage or kingdra dead would fit or even explosion to go out with a bang.


Well that's my rate done...hope i helped but like i said...i'm not very good with rates but you can try my suggestions.

Great team btw!

 

[TeraGhost]

I'm no pro, like others have said xD, but to deal with all your threats that you listed, I'd suggest replacing Forretress with a Starmie. Starmie effectively checks Suicune and Vaporeon with Thunderbolt, Dragonite and Breloom with Ice Beam provided it doesn't have a sub up (though you've got Gengar to wall it to an extent anyway), and makes Jolteon easier to predict. If it has HP Ice, Starmie can stand up against choiced versions locked into it. HP Grass means that Gliscor shouldn't have too much to worry about. Tyranitar can pursuit versions locked into the wrong move and bye bye Jolteon. You could even run the Starmie/Metagross combo to deal with the top ten leads.

 

[Faladran]

Mixgross is a somewhat creative idea, but the lack of priority in the form of Bullet Punch really hurts its ability to deal with leads with Focus Sash.

To improve your lead matchups, try using physical Anti-Lead Metagross:

Metagross @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 236 HP / 228 Atk / 20 Def / 24 Spe
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch
- Explosion

This set deals favorably with a majority of leads, and even has Explosion to take care of any major threats. Since this leaves you at a disadvantage against Infernape and Heatran leads, consider using Swampert over Gliscor; this will give you a good switch-in with access to Stealth Rock and Roar, as well as one of the best checks to Dragonite.

Good luck with your team!

 

[Xing]

Hey ive got a nice addition to you Gengar than can solve the problems (Bulky waters). Seen as Gengar outspeeds most of your top threats, may i suggest Destiny Bond, it can be a crazy and risky move to pull out of the bag, but not many people expect it from Gengar anymore. It can really surprise and income wall, If you have been previously made weak, and the incoming pokemon is designed to take you hit and finish you off, You use Destiny Bond and drag down this wall with you :)

Good idea! I might try that.

I'm not a team rater..so take this rate lightly...

Well first..IMO, your team doesnt need Rapid spin(especially if you use bulkydos) which makes forry kinda deadweight. And really feel this team could you something to deal with bulky waters in general. So i would probably recommend celebi with some sort of support set. (SR/t-wave/grass knot/u-turn?) dont ask EVs since i suck in general with them.

I also second the switch to BulkyTauntDos

one more thing...you could try taking trick out of gengar since gliscor has walls (read:blissey) covered. HP [ice/dragon] depending how much you want coverage or kingdra dead would fit or even explosion to go out with a bang.


Well that's my rate done...hope i helped but like i said...i'm not very good with rates but you can try my suggestions.

Great team btw!

Thanks. I think I will switch out Forretress for Celebi to see how it goes. But if I were to use Bulkydos, I want to take out Gliscor (or at least change its moveset) because I don't like having 2 Taunts.

I'm no pro, like others have said xD, but to deal with all your threats that you listed, I'd suggest replacing Forretress with a Starmie. Starmie effectively checks Suicune and Vaporeon with Thunderbolt, Dragonite and Breloom with Ice Beam provided it doesn't have a sub up (though you've got Gengar to wall it to an extent anyway), and makes Jolteon easier to predict. If it has HP Ice, Starmie can stand up against choiced versions locked into it. HP Grass means that Gliscor shouldn't have too much to worry about. Tyranitar can pursuit versions locked into the wrong move and bye bye Jolteon. You could even run the Starmie/Metagross combo to deal with the top ten leads.

For now I will try out Celebi. I'm not sure about Starmie.

Mixgross is a somewhat creative idea, but the lack of priority in the form of Bullet Punch really hurts its ability to deal with leads with Focus Sash.

To improve your lead matchups, try using physical Anti-Lead Metagross:

Metagross @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 236 HP / 228 Atk / 20 Def / 24 Spe
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch
- Explosion

This set deals favorably with a majority of leads, and even has Explosion to take care of any major threats. Since this leaves you at a disadvantage against Infernape and Heatran leads, consider using Swampert over Gliscor; this will give you a good switch-in with access to Stealth Rock and Roar, as well as one of the best checks to Dragonite.

Good luck with your team!

But..but... I really love my Meta. =( I just love the feeling of OHKOing Scizors, Forretress, dealing mass damage to Swamperts, and dealing 50%+ damage to Skarmories.

But since I have Celebi now, I may take out grass knot for asplosion, bullet bunch, or shadow ball. Guys: which of the 3 do you suggest I use? And should I keep HP Fire?

EDIT: Opening post updated

 

[Declanp]

Well you definitely need bullet punch on metagross. so yeah have that as the last move on meta.

Gengar NEEDS t-bolt for water types it wants to revenge (most notably gyara, but i guess you own dos can deal with stonedge-less ones)

I guess you could go for an sweeping set on gliscor with bulkydos (trust me, bulky dos will do for physical defense support. maybe RP (since you seem to like fast pokes) or even simple SD set

Gliscor @ Life Orb
36hp/252atk/220spe (EVs out-speed other 'scor so you can roost their SE ?)
Jolly
-Swords dance/rock polish
-Earthquake
-Stone edge (don't need night slash since you have t-tar
-Roost (so he can be a wall if needed)

Hope i helped! (again)