Multifaction Recruitment Mafia - Night 13 (Deadline: 17/01 10:00pm GMT/5:00pm EST)

Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
for the record, and future hosts may want to make this explicitly clear, I think there was a culture divide on copy/pasting

we used to allow c/ping of everything (but no screenshots) since you could reasonably fake text - especially on mIRC. you could go to another server besides the one we all used and fake names, or just edit text, etc. writing fake role pms was somewhat of an art form every mafian was expected to do. that got harder and harder because lower-activity mafians would foist it into the tryhards to do all the fakes, and certain hosts like me had difficult-to-replicate writing styles if you weren't closely paying attention. we banned c/ping role pms to remove the burden of writing a believable fake or having one ready the second a bullish leader like UncleSam came pestering (that era gained a rep that he would lynch anyone who didn't immediately claim2him so you needed a fake the moment he stepped up, it got exhausting). all you needed was role name/role.

HOWEVER, i do not remember ever banning c/ping of logs. maybe this has changed since the last OC games many of us played and the convention on circus now is that c/ping logs is not allowed. it was always the danger of what you might tell people in private that they share, especially with their mafia/faction.

i would not agree with apricity receiving a warning for c/ping logs, especially if other players did not. i don't think anyone should, so the adjustment to the c/p rule is good.

imperfectluck i would like some clarification on voting standards while we are making adjustments. are edited posts allowed/will they count, or do you need to post a new vote and only the most recent post counts? is there any specific verbiage that should be used when voting IE will "vote billymills" count but "let's roll billy" won't?

let's just get the terms in writing so nobody gets upset later if there is another clash of styles or w/e.
 
i'm personally of the opinion that pasting logs outside of your faction should also not be allowed, it puts a huge burden on people trying to be deceitful and there's not really any benefit to it other than people being used to it

however, this discussion is late enough in the game that I respect the hosts' decision to allow them, since people have already made use of them
 

imperfectluck

Banned deucer.
Clarified that there is still a rule against screenshotting. Everyone can now copy paste anything they want (but beware of fakes!)
There is a sitewide rule against anyone other than the host editing posts in the mafia threads, but I can't enforce it or see it because I am not a moderator on this forum.

As for specific verbiage, as long as it is bolded and it is clear that it is a vote, I'm fine with it.
 

Celever

i am town
is a Community Contributor
in the discord era banning logs should definitely not be allowed and TBF I think they should just be banned now with no retroactive punishments (because retroactive punishments are bad + stupid)

slightly uneven because some people have benefitted from log c/ping etc. etc. but it's preferable to make people try and fake discord logs but that sucks even more
 
Hello.

I have been hoodwinked, bamboozled, led astray, run amok, and flat out deceived by the hosting team of this organization.

As you all know, I am a very busy and important person, and there are only two types of games that are worthy of my presence:
-Game formats I created that my many adoring fans have lovingly mimicked
-Memes

I was told, by Mr. Golconda (Defendent 1) that this was a "memey org" and "regular stupid" (Exhibit A).

This is demonstrably false. There has not been a single meme in this sad soulless waste of a discord server -- in fact, the only meme you might say is that there are no memes. This is not "regular stupid", nor is it intelligent. This game occupies that vast, blasted land of mediocrity, stagnancy, and boredom.

The beauty and challenge of "memey" and "stupid" orgs is their cleverness and humor. You take a format with well-known standards, and you subvert the expectations of players in ways that change the rules of the game without changing its nature. Players are kept in fear and delight, you inspire reactions, and you inspire conversation. It's an tightrope act of balancing artful creative expression, with balance and competitive fairness.

I may be leaving this game without having played it, but rest assured, I have played this game before. I played this game when it was called Hellvivor, when it was called Smorgon, when it was a random reddit survivor ORG that divya and I joined for a laugh. I've played these challenges before, and I've played this format before. There is not one original thought in the 50 channels and 100 rules in this server. Due to your inability to do anything new and unique, you have wasted not only an opportunity to test your imagination, you have committed the frankly sinful wrong of wasting my time.

Suck my dick, don't ever talk to me again, I'm never unblocking anybody responsible for this terrible experience, and have fun living the rest of your life with mud people.
 
Just going to put my 2 cents here as someone who has known Hal for like 5 years.

I was not working with Hal nor did I claim to Hal. Based on the setup, I planned on not claiming to anyone until I was recruited. If Hal was truly doing something scandalous, I’m pretty confident he would have trusted me with that information.

What is a more likely scenario is that a pregame formed amongst that group of players and then they naturally leaned towards Hal.

Of the faction leaders they’re closer to Hal than the others. Former hasn’t been around for 3 years and Hal does play Smogon NOC mafia on occasion with some of those people and Sam hasn’t been around anywhere in recent memory outside of Chess?

It’s more like a parasite infecting a host than vice versa. With that said, I’m not saying those users who trusted Hal did anything sus either. I don’t really see anything implicitly wrong with pregaming unless specific things are stated in the rules. I will only say it’s a bit against the spirit of the game to actively distance from the game so you don’t get recruited by other factions (which would ruin their plan) but like, still not against the rules.

I’d honestly chock the situation up as a mulligan, I do feel bad for Hal but can understand why he would quit and why the information was shared by Tommy and IPL.
 
Hello.

I have been hoodwinked, bamboozled, led astray, run amok, and flat out deceived by the hosting team of this organization.

As you all know, I am a very busy and important person, and there are only two types of games that are worthy of my presence:
-Game formats I created that my many adoring fans have lovingly mimicked
-Memes

I was told, by Mr. Golconda (Defendent 1) that this was a "memey org" and "regular stupid" (Exhibit A).

This is demonstrably false. There has not been a single meme in this sad soulless waste of a discord server -- in fact, the only meme you might say is that there are no memes. This is not "regular stupid", nor is it intelligent. This game occupies that vast, blasted land of mediocrity, stagnancy, and boredom.

The beauty and challenge of "memey" and "stupid" orgs is their cleverness and humor. You take a format with well-known standards, and you subvert the expectations of players in ways that change the rules of the game without changing its nature. Players are kept in fear and delight, you inspire reactions, and you inspire conversation. It's an tightrope act of balancing artful creative expression, with balance and competitive fairness.

I may be leaving this game without having played it, but rest assured, I have played this game before. I played this game when it was called Hellvivor, when it was called Smorgon, when it was a random reddit survivor ORG that divya and I joined for a laugh. I've played these challenges before, and I've played this format before. There is not one original thought in the 50 channels and 100 rules in this server. Due to your inability to do anything new and unique, you have wasted not only an opportunity to test your imagination, you have committed the frankly sinful wrong of wasting my time.

Suck my dick, don't ever talk to me again, I'm never unblocking anybody responsible for this terrible experience, and have fun living the rest of your life with mud people.
I prefer the one where I parodied Chlorine.
 
Weapon reskins in TF2 have always seemed like a strange case to me. On one hand, if you like how a weapon works but hate how it looks, it's nice to have another option to choose from. But on the other hand, reskins usually look like they would function differently from their counterpart, and I've always thought it would be neat if cool looking weapons like the Maul had more of an identity than "it's the Homewrecker but for rich people." So, I took a large number of weapon reskins currently available in the game and gave them their own set of stats, ranging from "slightly modified sidegrade to the original" to "completely new weapon idea that's not balanced at all but a ton of fun."

For this video at least, I'm only going to be modifying weapons that are relatively cheap and easily obtainable so it can keep the pay-to-win to a minimum. Basically, if it's under a key in backpack.tf (tm) or it's directly craftable, then it's gonna be fair game. I'm also not going to be touching the Original, either of the Pyroland weapons, or the Holy Mackerel since, even though they're technically reskins, they have enough unique functions that make them notably different from their counterparts. All right, let's go.

The Three-Rune Blade is a really cool looking weapon that just doesn't do it for me. Like, sure, if you hit somebody with a sword in real life, they're probably gonna bleed, but if you made a sword that's so poorly weighted that you're guaranteed to hit yourself if you miss your target, then you'd probably be better off not even forging the sword in the first place and just hurling chunks of iron at people. So hear me out, we've already got Demoknight, but we don't have Scoutknight. I've always thought it would be really cool if the Three-Rune made Scout function kinda like Demoknight. You have a lot more health, better damage and range, and a slight movement speed buff in exchange for Scout taking his medieval roleplay very seriously and refusing to use any non-medieval weapons. Scoutknight would effectively be a sidegrade to Demoknight by trading off health and shield resistances for better movement and secondary utility. I'm actually surprised we don't have a second melee subclass in TF2 already with how much time went into Demoknight. And the Three-Rune seems like the most obvious weapon change to make to make that a reality.

The Holy Mackerel is notably different enough from stock because of the killfeed tracking hits function. However, the Unarmed Combat does basically the same thing as the Holy Mackerel, so it does count as a reskin. The Unarmed Combat's basically a meme weapon, so I'm not too concerned about making it competitively viable or anything, but I do wanna make it fulfill its role as a funny weapon by giving it funny stats. Since you're slapping people around, why not give it a knockback effect? The knockback wouldn't be much, but you'd be able to get kills with this pretty well just by juggling people around. It would be kinda annoying to fight against, but the idea of slapping people off a cliff is funny to me, so I personally like the changes regardless of how effective they may be.

The Nostromo Napalmer is technically not a reskin from stock because, if you have the entire item set equipped, you do more damage against Scouts who are wearing the entire Alien set, but only like 5 people have ever gotten use out of that specific stat, so I'm willing to make an exception. Most of the flamethrowers right now reward you for being as close to your target as possible. So I thought it would be interesting to make a flamethrower that's the opposite, where it has increased flame distance but reverse falloff so you have to keep your target at the maximum possible distance to get the most damage. The increased flame speed would also give the flames more range since their calculation is based on time in the air instead of distance, so essentially it's not as much of an ambush tool as much as it is a spacing tool. I have no idea how good or bad this would end up being because it's such an "out there" concept, but I think this would be more of a high skill ceiling flamethrower to add to the game, and it would also work well in the Nostromo due to how the original version works in Alien.

The Postal Pummeler has such a random design for an Axtinguisher reskin. Like sure, a mailbox as a melee is cool and all, but why make it a reskin to the Axtinguisher of all things? So if not an Axtinguisher reskin, what would a mailbox do? Mail has to travel to reach its destination, and a lot of mail travels by air, and yeah, this is a Pyro Market Gardener. There's not much explanation with this one, the only thing to note is that I added a deploy speed bonus to both negate the jetpack's long holster animation and to give you more time to hit targets with the Detonator's smaller jumps. Other than that, I feel like Pyro could use a Market Gardener and these are stats that would be a lot of fun in TF2. And it would make it doubly function by making the mailbox theme make more sense.

The Maul is another really cool looking weapon that ends up being boring because of its stats. Because of how futuristic this thing looks, I'd expect it to do something more high-tech than just being a building smasher. So, what if we inverted the Homewrecker's damage against enemy buildings to provide buffs to friendly buildings instead? What I'm thinking for the Maul is that you'd be able to whack friendly buildings to make them operate a little bit faster. That means Sentries would fire faster, Dispensers would regenerate ammo and heal faster, and Teleporters would take a little bit less time to recharge. This is, of course, a significant buff to Engineers, so just to make it a bit harder to keep buildings overclocked, a firing speed penalty would probably be necessary. Pybro's currently a great niche that's limited to a single weapon type, and since teamwork-based playstyles should be widely encouraged in a game called "Team Fortress 2", getting Pyros more options to help out friendly Engineers would be a super great addition.

The Bootlegger and the Wee Booties are two weapons that only exist because of their item sets. But even though the Wee Booties are consistent with its set, the Bootlegger doesn't really make sense in its context because its set doesn't really work well with any of the shields. So, what if we made it work with sticky jumping? The new Bootlegger would effectively be a combination between the Mantreads and the Gunboats, but for the Demoman instead of the Soldier. I don't think this really needs that much explanation since there are already similar weapons in the game that you can use as an example if you would wanna imagine how these would work, but having the Bootlegger be Demoman Gunboats would both make a lot of sense and appease a lot of community members, so I think that's a good route to take with them.

So then, what would the Scottish Handshake be, since its part of the same set as the Bootlegger? Yeah, it's the Demoman Market Gardener, pretty much copy and pasted from Soldier. There are way too many reasons why this makes sense and I'm not the first nor last to come up with this idea, but I will get it out there that I thought about this change years ago before it became popularized, so yay for being a hipster I guess. Overall, making this set focus more on sticky jumping would give Demo the proper counterpart to Soldier's Airborne Armaments set, which I think the game could certainly use.

The Nessie's Nine Iron makes no sense because it completely ignores its source material. In the obscure indie game called "Golf", you don't use golf clubs as swords, even though it would probably make the sport much more entertaining to watch. Golf clubs are used to hit a ball to make it go flying into the air. So, the Nessie's Nine Iron should be able to hit players to make them go flying in the air. Basically, I'm changing this from an Eyelander that can collect heads to a knockback-based sword that also has a Sandman projectile built in. A Demoknight option that has a launchable projectile would make for a very unique playstyle, since even though you're sacrificing a big chunk of your damage, the projectile range and ability to control what direction players are launched in would make this weapon pair incredibly well with hazard-heavy maps. This one is definitely "out there" as far as the stats go and I'm not sure how effective it would even end up being, but it would be a lot of fun to use if nothing else.

The Fishcake is a heavy lunchbox that, for whatever reason, is way more obscure than it really deserves to be. Like, I'm pretty sure I had a thousand hours in TF2 before I even realized that this existed. So to aid weapons that have become victims of obscurity, we should give this poor fish a reason to be used. My thought with the Fishcake is that instead of granting Heavy max health to make further fights go better, it should instead grant him a passive health regeneration over the course of 30 seconds, which will also accomplish something similar. 100 health instantly and 8 health per second makes this heal a total of 340 HP, but it does give it back to you slowly, meaning that you also have some passive regen during your next combat. I can see this being pretty strong depending on how we tweak the numbers, but I mean c'mon, its an obscure reskin of an already bad item, it deserves to have a spot in the line light for at least a little bit.

Next up is the Apoco-Fists, which are way too cool looking to just be a reskin of the stock Fists. The cosmetic gib on kill stat's a pretty good base for a lot of interesting weapon ideas, but I think explosions are probably the most fun way to take that. My thought with this one is that everytime you hit someone, you create an explosion similar to how the Caber works. However, instead of just getting the first hit being a super powerful explosion, you would create many explosions on every hit that would do about 30 damage or so and some knockback to both the Heavy and whoever he's hitting. This would coincidentally also give the Heavy the ability to punch walls to climb them, which probably wouldn't do a ton for ya, but vertical mobility on the Heavy is always a welcome edition, and I can definitely see this opening up a few new strategies at least.

The AWPer Hand is a scam. This is supposed to be the AWP but ported to TF2, so why in the world can't I one-shot people by hitting them in the chest? Well, I guess that would cause balance issues, so we'll just make it accurate in the next best way. I think the most interesting stat we can port over from the real AWP would be the double scoping mechanic that a lot of CSGO's rifles have. Of course, we would also have to port over the mechanic that scoping with it makes you slow as hell, but I feel like that would be a worthy trade-off. This would make the AWP a better rifle for holding longer angles, but double zooming can also hurt you sometimes, because it makes it take longer to unscope, so I don't think it would completely surpass the Sniper Rifle in terms of utility.

The Fortified Compound is another weapon that's a huge missed opportunity. Like you're telling me that Valve had a chance to add another Sniper bow with different stats, but they chose to just make it a reskin? Nonononono, we're fixing this today. Since compound bows are known for how much power they can put behind arrows, I was trying think of ways to make this thing feel like a heavy hitter without directly increasing the damage. I think the best that I could come up with is making this a bow version of the Machina that takes a little bit longer to fully charge. After all, compound bow strings take a ton of force to draw and Sniper's not the strongest guy out there, so it makes sense that the arrow would take longer to be pulled back all the way. The added projectile speed might be a little bit overkill but, again, I wanted to make the Compound feel like there's force some behind it. So let me know what you think of these stats in particular, I'm kinda curious to see how you'd think this would turn out.

The Sharp Dresser is another weapon that commits the biggest sins a reskin can. It looks way too cool for a reskin and it doesn't respect its source material at all. Then again, what do you even do in Assassin's Creed? I mean you like jump off rooftops to assassinate people? Yeah, why not? The goal with this one was to emulate the Assassin's Creed falling assassination mechanic that may or may not even be a real thing. These stats might seem a little bit gimmicky, but I wanted to make the stats for the Sharp Dresser something that would make it easier to trick stab but harder to chain stab. Would these stats actually be useful at all the on Spy? I have no idea, but this weapon seems like it would be a lot of fun to use so I'll keep it.

The Wanga Prick is in the exact same position as the Fishcake. It's a reskin of a bad weapon that doesn't really have any reason to exist in the first place. So, I might as well do something more unique with it. I was going to make up something about how I thought of these stats based on traditional acupuncture or voodoo rituals or some other BS, but I literally just saw the skull on the weapon and thought this would be funny. This one, um, could be completely broken or completely useless depending on how much teamwork your team has. There's no big idea behind this, I just saw the skull on the weapon and wanted to include the "Mark for Death" mechanic somehow and figured, "You know what, being able to apply it to groups of enemies would actually give Spy a sort of supportive role." I mean it's not even that much more powerful than the Jarate since Spy has to take huge risks to actually get a backstab, but it still might be a little bit ridiculous if you can use it correctly.

And finally we end our weapon reskin chain with the Quackenbirdt, which is something I thought about for a long while and decided that my sole inspiration for all of the changes was that the Quackenbirdt has a duck on it and ducks are pretty fast (kind of). Spy doesn't really have any mobility-based watches that he can directly control. I mean the closest thing to that would be like the Dead Ringer, which only provides a three second speed boost each time you feign. My thought with the Quackenbirdt was to give Spy an option that would allow him to be fast but, as a trade-off, would make him a bit more of a glass cannon than normal. I could definitely see these changes causing the Quackenbirdt to dominate the cloak watch slot, so I think we could definitely increase the HP penalty or decrease the speed penalty and get about the same result.

So those are all the weapon reskins that don't cost your left kidney to actually buy. Like I mentioned, I love most of the reskins that are currently in TF2 from a design perspective. It's just a shame that most of them never get used because they're more expensive versions of already mediocre weapons. If you have any feedback or ideas for the changes that I mentioned in this video, I would love to see them in the comments. I really do like reading through the critiques of mine that people comment, even if I don't respond to every single one. Oh, and also, I do have ideas for the very expensive weapons, I just figured that most people would complain about them being pay-to-win if I decided to change them. (And also, I didn't want to have to spend 100 dollars on the background footage.) So, I decided not to touch them in this video. If you really do wanna see them, I would definitely be down for finishing the reskin list, just comment below and I'll kinda take a tally.
 

Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
i guess my only question is at what point in time did this happen: "I made a long, detailed pitch to TBZ, Drookez, Lind, Mat, Rssp, Derz, and Waffles, copied below."

he copies the pitch which refers to N0 in the present-tense and doesn't explicitly say WHEN he sent it.

could anyone clarify the timeline?

i don't think the plan was bad from HIS perspective as the organizer but it is quite literally a pyramid scheme and the further down the pipeline you are, the more suspicious you should have been about your odds of actually getting recruited to the faction that took hal, vs the other members of that faction choosing to prioritize roles/players they know over yourself. that is, of course, the danger of rallying behind one faction/"freelancer group" too quickly. if you offer up your role before receiving any assurances (or if your role is rather weak for lategame. like an info role is useful now but when they need bodyguards and kill power do you think you're going to be a priority?), eh, that's just your own naivete/inexperience with the Viva format. he admits as much.

you're a freelancer and you need to be recruited SOMEWHERE. you need to consider how many people are going to be before you in line for any given faction, especially with some mass alliance like this. i don't fault the pyramid scheme starter for trying a scheme to benefit himself but this is not a village vs mafia game, there is no guarantee you benefit from your sheeping.
 

Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
i guess my only question is at what point in time did this happen: "I made a long, detailed pitch to TBZ, Drookez, Lind, Mat, Rssp, Derz, and Waffles, copied below."

he copies the pitch which refers to N0 in the present-tense and doesn't explicitly say WHEN he sent it.

could anyone clarify the timeline?
it was confirmed on discord that apricity sent this pitch several hours before the thread was posted and the game officially began.

i think this is against the spirit of "the rules in ipl's head" as he intended for a silent n0 recruit (also stated on discord), but not against "the rules ipl physically typed." i voiced concern when agape posted his wall in the role pm-sending phase as well but i think ipl was too busy to notice.

like IF it had been stated clearly "do not discuss the game/your roles until all pms are out and the thread is posted" that would be a godkill-worthy offense. as it was not stated officially and people had different interpretations of that "n0" phase, well...

ANY ONE OF THE TEN HOST MISTAKES rises again

so anyway if you wanna buy essential oils and cheap yoga pants, i also have some lovely seaside property in kentucky i can offer. claim2me!
 

imperfectluck

Banned deucer.
A staticky voice suddenly speaks up!

zorbees said:
To all the freelancers in this game:

The wording of apricity's initial message to 7 users indicates an intent to hard collab, specifically where he suggests that they work together like they have the same wincon.

If any of these people got recruited to another faction at some point (inevitable, considering that there were so many of them, and that info roles would circulate their roles among other factions), then up to that point, they would have spent the game sabotaging the game for their final faction. That's not playing to win.

That group of 8 would obviously influence others as well, extending the impact of hard collab. to the entire group of 15+ neutrals that he speaks of.

This is unhealthy, uncompetitive play that, while mods may not consider illegal, is definitely ruining other players' experience, including your own.

The water faction is not going to recruit you. They'll pick from that lot of 15. This is a suggestion that you therefore target the people that apricity has been so kind as to share with the rest of us:

TBZ, Drookez, Lind, Mat, Rssp, Derz, Waffles, IAVH, CNG, OJ, Ehmcee, Genisu

P.S. Grass and Fire would love to have you. Reach out to Former and Uncle Sam.
(i did not write the above, but mostly agree with it personally)
 

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