Mew does deserve S; some of the sets I've seen until now are banettite, ampharosite, sablenite, loppunite, altarianite, pinsirite, and maaaaaaaaaany more. Completely unpredictable.
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Ladder Mix and Mega
- Thread starter Imperator Romanum
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Sorry for the one liner, can someone tell me what sets zygarde runs?
Edit:
Edit:
Mew is currently S rank. A+ rank would be a drop.
You usually want to be slower and bulkier when baton passing, honestly. Sablenite mew has ridiculous bulk, and it's weaknesses aren't very common and are easily accounted for. I personally think that bulk up is usually better than calm mind for Mew passing (and would argue Softboiled has as much a place as an attack), because of the slightly higher amount of choices and would only go with CM or Nasty pass if I has a very specific pass target in mind (Absolite Jirachi, Pidgeotite Victini, Lucarionite Keldeo). Even then, I think most -ate Speeders are usually better pass targets, plus you worry considerably less about something like Blissey trying to boost alongside you.
I do think something might need to be done about Mew passing. Other than just magic bounce pass, Lopunnite and Pidgeotite can both pass pretty efficiently and ruin lives, and I would argue that haze is just not viable in the current meta environment. Mew is a massive, versatile threat before Baton Pass gets involved, and with Baton Pass it can just feel oppressive.
Somewhat related; I also personally feel that Arcanine is arguably better than Entei at this point in the meta's development. Close Combat and Wild Charge are huge, and I increasingly believe that Sacred Fire just isn't that relevant to Entei's success at the current development of the meta, due in large part to the prevalence of Blue Orb mons as a primary check to -atespeeding Fire types. I've personally found Espeed/Close Combat/Wild Charge/Wil o Wisp Arcanine (I've been using Pinsirite) to be incredibly effective and haven't missed having a Fire move. While I believe the threat of Sacred Fire has a significant impact on a teambuilding perspective, I think Arc is the bigger threat for prepared teams, at the moment. Entei has a better matchup versus a few checks, such as Venusaurite Zapdos, but these checks have dropped considerably in popularity since the last time this was OMotM.
I also think Blue Orb should be added to Jirachi's VR stones. It checks both Fire -atespeeders hard and has enough of a support movepool (wish, u-turn, stealth rock, thunder wave) to not create a large momentum drain when paired with a seperate -atespeed check who might struggle a bit with those two, such as Latiasite Heatran. It also has the offensive movepool to not be bait for most offensive threats, which helps it distinguish itself from Ferrothorn. Unlike other Blue Orb steels, it has U-turn and Wish, which is a substantial niche for more balance inclined teams.
I do think something might need to be done about Mew passing. Other than just magic bounce pass, Lopunnite and Pidgeotite can both pass pretty efficiently and ruin lives, and I would argue that haze is just not viable in the current meta environment. Mew is a massive, versatile threat before Baton Pass gets involved, and with Baton Pass it can just feel oppressive.
Somewhat related; I also personally feel that Arcanine is arguably better than Entei at this point in the meta's development. Close Combat and Wild Charge are huge, and I increasingly believe that Sacred Fire just isn't that relevant to Entei's success at the current development of the meta, due in large part to the prevalence of Blue Orb mons as a primary check to -atespeeding Fire types. I've personally found Espeed/Close Combat/Wild Charge/Wil o Wisp Arcanine (I've been using Pinsirite) to be incredibly effective and haven't missed having a Fire move. While I believe the threat of Sacred Fire has a significant impact on a teambuilding perspective, I think Arc is the bigger threat for prepared teams, at the moment. Entei has a better matchup versus a few checks, such as Venusaurite Zapdos, but these checks have dropped considerably in popularity since the last time this was OMotM.
I also think Blue Orb should be added to Jirachi's VR stones. It checks both Fire -atespeeders hard and has enough of a support movepool (wish, u-turn, stealth rock, thunder wave) to not create a large momentum drain when paired with a seperate -atespeed check who might struggle a bit with those two, such as Latiasite Heatran. It also has the offensive movepool to not be bait for most offensive threats, which helps it distinguish itself from Ferrothorn. Unlike other Blue Orb steels, it has U-turn and Wish, which is a substantial niche for more balance inclined teams.
Mew is currently S-rank. He's disagreeing with the idea it should drop.
My bad, edited.
Any more ideas for mew? I liek to surprise people on the ladder
A set I've had good results with:
Mew @ Absolite / Manectite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock
- Earth Power / Aura Sphere
- Ice Beam / Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball
Simple special sweeper. Absolite lets you outrun Diancite Heatran, while Manectite gives you more bulk and Intimidate to help you set up safely. Nasty Plot skyrockets your Special Attack. Psyshock is the STAB, and also lets you beat Blissey (with Magic Bounce it can't touch you anyway). Earth Power OHKOes Primal Groudon at +2, and OHKOes Entei and Arcanine on the switch. Aura Sphere hits Blue Orb Ferrothorn. Ice Beam OHKOes Landorus-T and Zygarde; Thunderbolt OHKOes Blue Orb Skarmory; Shadow Ball hits opposing Psychic types. EVs maximise Speed and power.
Really, you can run pretty much whatever moves you want depending on what you want to hit. Just try what feels good to you. You could also run Baton Pass to turn it into a hybrid sweeper / supporter.
So we're discussing Mew, then? Good. I was just about to cover one of Mew's many angles with this analysis.
Mew: So I used Gyaradosite Mew. I was NOT disappointed with the results. Mold Breaker allows Mew to do so much to walls (including other Mews); set up rocks in their face, poison or burn them, roar them away (this particular option screws over Baton Pass so much, and is underrated in general). And this hardly means that this variant of Mew is setup fodder anyways; it also has Foul Play in its movepool, and it's STAB with Gyaradosite. As you can imagine, any physical attacker that does not resist Dark is being KOed right then and there. And Mew can live pretty strong hits, even if it is specially defensive... Oh, and you can just run attacks alongside this as well.
This particular form of Mew is actually my argument against both Mega Gengar and Extreme Speed. It outperforms the former (besides checking Pixiespeed, but you should be smart enough to pair a resist as well), and is checked by Altarianite pretty easily. Regardless, I can easily see that Mew deserves its S ranking.
(I'll save the rest for another post to prevent clutter)
Mew: So I used Gyaradosite Mew. I was NOT disappointed with the results. Mold Breaker allows Mew to do so much to walls (including other Mews); set up rocks in their face, poison or burn them, roar them away (this particular option screws over Baton Pass so much, and is underrated in general). And this hardly means that this variant of Mew is setup fodder anyways; it also has Foul Play in its movepool, and it's STAB with Gyaradosite. As you can imagine, any physical attacker that does not resist Dark is being KOed right then and there. And Mew can live pretty strong hits, even if it is specially defensive... Oh, and you can just run attacks alongside this as well.
This particular form of Mew is actually my argument against both Mega Gengar and Extreme Speed. It outperforms the former (besides checking Pixiespeed, but you should be smart enough to pair a resist as well), and is checked by Altarianite pretty easily. Regardless, I can easily see that Mew deserves its S ranking.
(I'll save the rest for another post to prevent clutter)
Perhaps we can see some replays of Mew in action? In my mind besides Baton pass there's a lot of competition for all of its sets!
I can't provide any RECENT replays of Mew in action, but I can definitely attest for its strengths.
My standard Mew set is of course, Sablenite, but doesn't use BP, and is instead a bulky WinCon, with CM, Wil-O-Wisp, Psyshock and Roost.
Mew's got so many sets that are viable, it's just ridiculous. SD Loppunite, Pidgeotenite/Absolite Nasty Plot, BP sets, Support sets, and more. All of these things prove just how viable/splashable mew is. It's extremely wide movepool, coupled with balanced stats, are really what makes Mew shine, allowing it to be tailor-fit for ANY team, and the amount of usage it gets even with Deos running free proves that.
My standard Mew set is of course, Sablenite, but doesn't use BP, and is instead a bulky WinCon, with CM, Wil-O-Wisp, Psyshock and Roost.
Mew's got so many sets that are viable, it's just ridiculous. SD Loppunite, Pidgeotenite/Absolite Nasty Plot, BP sets, Support sets, and more. All of these things prove just how viable/splashable mew is. It's extremely wide movepool, coupled with balanced stats, are really what makes Mew shine, allowing it to be tailor-fit for ANY team, and the amount of usage it gets even with Deos running free proves that.
thesecondbest
Just Kidding I'm First
Blazikenite scolipede is coming up as illegal for me. Is it supposed to be legal? Is the problem with the OP or the code?
InfernapeTropius11
get on my level
I'm pretty sure gos did away with that limitation stuff (e.g. scoli @ chicken stone, azu @ medichamite) due to them being complex bans on the stones.
Nominating Mandibuzz to be moved from Unranked to B+. The thing is just good. With Sablenite it boasts 110/155/145 bulk which is literally unbreakable by any non super effective physical attack and even with my low sp def investment its still a reliable wall for some special attacks.
Mandibuzz @ Sablenite
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Toxic/U-turn
- Defog
- Roost
The combination of defog + magic bounce makes it very effective at keeping your field clear of hazards.
With its insane bulk, the only reliable way of breaking this mon is to boost. But anything that Swords Dance's will immediately die from a STAB Foul Play, and even unboosted Foul Play will almost always 2hko any remotely offensive mon. This also hits lead Deoxys super effectively and can then defog away its mold breaker hazards.
Roost is obvious, makes this mon almost immortal.
Toxic/U-turn: I think Toxic is the better move here as no physical mon can 2hko Mandibuzz without boosting, so either it dies from Toxic + Roost or it will try to boost and die to Foul Play. Toxic also lets you hit special switchins on the switch or hit defensive mons that won't die quickly to Foul Play. The other option is U-turn which has a niche. Obviously you keep momentum, but the most important reason you would run U-turn over Toxic is Mega Gengar. The main threat to Mandibuzz is the pixilate mons which hit super effectively and resist Foul Play. U-turning out on an obvious pixilate switch in allows you to go into your Mega Gengar who conveniently resists fairy typings, allowing you to trap and eliminate what is most likely the biggest threat on your opponent's team.
This is my absolute favorite mon to use in the meta, and I have not seen a single person using it besides me. Of course I don't want the secret to get out or people will start running it and wall my whole team!
Mandibuzz @ Sablenite
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Toxic/U-turn
- Defog
- Roost
The combination of defog + magic bounce makes it very effective at keeping your field clear of hazards.
With its insane bulk, the only reliable way of breaking this mon is to boost. But anything that Swords Dance's will immediately die from a STAB Foul Play, and even unboosted Foul Play will almost always 2hko any remotely offensive mon. This also hits lead Deoxys super effectively and can then defog away its mold breaker hazards.
Roost is obvious, makes this mon almost immortal.
Toxic/U-turn: I think Toxic is the better move here as no physical mon can 2hko Mandibuzz without boosting, so either it dies from Toxic + Roost or it will try to boost and die to Foul Play. Toxic also lets you hit special switchins on the switch or hit defensive mons that won't die quickly to Foul Play. The other option is U-turn which has a niche. Obviously you keep momentum, but the most important reason you would run U-turn over Toxic is Mega Gengar. The main threat to Mandibuzz is the pixilate mons which hit super effectively and resist Foul Play. U-turning out on an obvious pixilate switch in allows you to go into your Mega Gengar who conveniently resists fairy typings, allowing you to trap and eliminate what is most likely the biggest threat on your opponent's team.
This is my absolute favorite mon to use in the meta, and I have not seen a single person using it besides me. Of course I don't want the secret to get out or people will start running it and wall my whole team!
I love how splashable -ate is in this meta. I had reasonable ladder success with a team of Pdon + 5 -ates (Weavile, Altarianite Entei, Pinsirite Zygarde, Aerilate Lando T and Gardevoirite Toge which, despite looking garbage on paper, is slightly less bad than you'd probably think). I'd post the team but unfortunately I cleared my teambuilder this morning ;-;
OK, I know I said I'd wait until Friday, but I think we've already discussed just about everything for the VR
Mew is staying S
Balanced stats and insane versatility mean it can be tailored to fit just about any role, meaning you can always make space for it on your team. No other Pokémon can use so many mega stones so well. It does face competition for a lot of its roles, but it nearly always has a niche that justifies its use. I disagree that it struggles to get past Blissey - sets with the Sablenite / Absolite can use it as set up fodder, the stallbreaker set pretty much always runs a Mold Breaker mega stone, so it can still Taunt it past Magic Bounce. The SD Loppunite set simply smashes it to bits.
Entei is staying A+
It is a great revenge killer, but it's weak to all hazards and can't touch most Blue Orb Steels. Even if it runs Will-O-Wisp, Skarmory and Ferrothorn can still beat it if they run Toxic (which IMO they should) and in the latter's case, Leech Seed.
Arcanine is moving to A+
Better movepool and pre mega ability give it a solid niche over Entei. It can beat Blue Orb Ferrothorn and Levitate Heatran, 2 Pokémon Entei struggles with, thanks to Close Combat. It also gets Morning Sun, so hazards aren't necessarily as bad for it.
Zygarde is staying in S
It's not as powerful as Entei and Arcanine, but Dragon / Fairy is much better defensive typing than Fire / Fairy, it also has better bulk and boosting in Dragon Dance and Coil. Earthquake also lets it hit bulky Red Orb users, something Arcanine struggles with while Entei's forced to use the unreliable Stone Edge.
Cobalion is moving to A+
Great power, bulk and typing (with Pinsirite) makes it tough to stop late game. Has Taunt to cripple the few Pokémon that can wall it, like Blue Orb Skarmory, and great coverage in Close Combat and Stone Edge.
Water Arceus is going to A-
Checks a lot of Pokémon, like Entei, Arcanine, Heatran, non Red Orb Victini and Terrakion. Good bulky Defogger, and doesn't use any mega stones which is nice.
Giratina is moving to D
Decent Fighting check, but Terrakion and Cobalion can both get through it if they pack Taunt. No reliable recovery really hurts it as well.
Dialga is moving to Unranked
Just...why would you use this thing?
Zoroark is staying unranked. Too frail to be effective really.
New nominations (can't post sprites atm, sorry)
Mandibuzz to B + / B / B-
Great Defogger, STAB Foul Play lets it hurt physical attackers, also has U-turn to stop itself being a momentum drain.
Deoxys-S to A / A+
Excellent hazard setter, with Ampharosite it can set them against anything. If you want more bulk, the Aggronite and Sablenite are viable options - even with the Sablenite, it still has 150 base speed.
Skarmory to A+
Completely walling Entei, Zygarde and Primal Groudon is huge. Unlike Blissey it also has Taunt and Roar to prevent it being set up fodder, and it can throw Toxic around as even if it gets reflected, it's immune anyway.
Kyurem to A
One of the highest BSTs of all Pokémon that can hold mega stones. Cameruptite turns it into an offensive powerhouse with bulk on par with Cresselia, Absolite lets it outrun Pidgeotite Gengar, Aggronite turns it into a surprisingly good wall (same defense as Skarmory but almost double the base HP). It can even run the Altarianite, although there are generally better Pokémon for that role.
Lugia to C
Sablenite Mew is largely a better wall, as it's mostly immune to Taunt and Toxic. Doesn't use a mega stone, so that's something.
Kyurem-W to D / Unranked
Just give Kyurem the Cameruptite. Or Absolite, or Glalite.
Mew is staying S
Balanced stats and insane versatility mean it can be tailored to fit just about any role, meaning you can always make space for it on your team. No other Pokémon can use so many mega stones so well. It does face competition for a lot of its roles, but it nearly always has a niche that justifies its use. I disagree that it struggles to get past Blissey - sets with the Sablenite / Absolite can use it as set up fodder, the stallbreaker set pretty much always runs a Mold Breaker mega stone, so it can still Taunt it past Magic Bounce. The SD Loppunite set simply smashes it to bits.
Entei is staying A+
It is a great revenge killer, but it's weak to all hazards and can't touch most Blue Orb Steels. Even if it runs Will-O-Wisp, Skarmory and Ferrothorn can still beat it if they run Toxic (which IMO they should) and in the latter's case, Leech Seed.
Arcanine is moving to A+
Better movepool and pre mega ability give it a solid niche over Entei. It can beat Blue Orb Ferrothorn and Levitate Heatran, 2 Pokémon Entei struggles with, thanks to Close Combat. It also gets Morning Sun, so hazards aren't necessarily as bad for it.
Zygarde is staying in S
It's not as powerful as Entei and Arcanine, but Dragon / Fairy is much better defensive typing than Fire / Fairy, it also has better bulk and boosting in Dragon Dance and Coil. Earthquake also lets it hit bulky Red Orb users, something Arcanine struggles with while Entei's forced to use the unreliable Stone Edge.
Cobalion is moving to A+
Great power, bulk and typing (with Pinsirite) makes it tough to stop late game. Has Taunt to cripple the few Pokémon that can wall it, like Blue Orb Skarmory, and great coverage in Close Combat and Stone Edge.
Water Arceus is going to A-
Checks a lot of Pokémon, like Entei, Arcanine, Heatran, non Red Orb Victini and Terrakion. Good bulky Defogger, and doesn't use any mega stones which is nice.
Giratina is moving to D
Decent Fighting check, but Terrakion and Cobalion can both get through it if they pack Taunt. No reliable recovery really hurts it as well.
Dialga is moving to Unranked
Just...why would you use this thing?
Zoroark is staying unranked. Too frail to be effective really.
New nominations (can't post sprites atm, sorry)
Mandibuzz to B + / B / B-
Great Defogger, STAB Foul Play lets it hurt physical attackers, also has U-turn to stop itself being a momentum drain.
Deoxys-S to A / A+
Excellent hazard setter, with Ampharosite it can set them against anything. If you want more bulk, the Aggronite and Sablenite are viable options - even with the Sablenite, it still has 150 base speed.
Skarmory to A+
Completely walling Entei, Zygarde and Primal Groudon is huge. Unlike Blissey it also has Taunt and Roar to prevent it being set up fodder, and it can throw Toxic around as even if it gets reflected, it's immune anyway.
Kyurem to A
One of the highest BSTs of all Pokémon that can hold mega stones. Cameruptite turns it into an offensive powerhouse with bulk on par with Cresselia, Absolite lets it outrun Pidgeotite Gengar, Aggronite turns it into a surprisingly good wall (same defense as Skarmory but almost double the base HP). It can even run the Altarianite, although there are generally better Pokémon for that role.
Lugia to C
Sablenite Mew is largely a better wall, as it's mostly immune to Taunt and Toxic. Doesn't use a mega stone, so that's something.
Kyurem-W to D / Unranked
Just give Kyurem the Cameruptite. Or Absolite, or Glalite.
Kangaskhan (F) @ Lopunnite
105/155/90/40/80/120
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 248 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake/Sucker Punch/Power-up Punch/Ice Punch
252 Atk Kangaskhan Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 288-339 (111.1 - 130.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Kangaskhan Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Spiritomb: 288-342 (94.7 - 112.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Kangaskhan Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Garchomp: 360-428 (100.8 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
105/155/90/40/80/120
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 248 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake/Sucker Punch/Power-up Punch/Ice Punch
252 Atk Kangaskhan Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 288-339 (111.1 - 130.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Kangaskhan Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Spiritomb: 288-342 (94.7 - 112.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Kangaskhan Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Garchomp: 360-428 (100.8 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
This replay shows how good that Mew I mentioned was. Keep in mind that it's specially defensive.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-432854445
And this replay (even though I lose) helps explain my points on the others I'll be covering in this post.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-432893785
Now without further ado, Part 2 of my coverage. (My team got ripped apart by Terrakion and Keldeo, but was otherwise really solid...)
Kyruem: A very offensive powerhouse, but its bulk and weakness to both Fighting and Fairy may disappoint you. Glalite is still really good for nuking a bunch of slower folks, though I'm starting to think Pinsirite may actually be a worthwhile mindgame due to how rare Rock coverage is. The ice monster's worthy of A-rank, if only due to its incredible power.
Typhlosion: It was only a matter of time. I know what you're all thinking: "But Zephyr, Typhlosion pales in comparison to all of these cool Red Orb users! *whips out a large scroll*" And while that might be true, Typhlosion has one thing over most of them: Earthquake. And you can bet you'll get a bunch of Heatrans on your tail with this. And don't try to deal with Entei unless you have to. Stone Edge DOES hurt. Also, the main Fire and Grass moves have oomph behind them, thanks to that Special Attack boost. Kind of reminds me of Charizard Y, really.
Milotic: It's good. REALLY good. Maybe I jut got a good sample, but Aggronite Milotic's a fantastic -ate check, and good at walling a bunch of stuff in general. Glalite Weavile has problems, Kyruem has problems... anything outside of strong Fighting and Electric types have problems. And stuff with rest. This is kind of passive outside of status infliction.
Metagross: This gives Cobalion a run for its money. In exchange for some bulk, speed, and a better boosting move, Metagross gets more immediate power, more coverage, and Meteor Mash, which is the best Steel STAB you can ask for. Pinsirite Metagross is a fantastic Zygarde check/counter, floating over pretty much everything that it can do. Oh, and it breaks any Blissey at +1. Utterly fantastic, and I'd highly recommend it if you're having Zygarde issues, or just need something beefy in general.
Goodra: Yeah, that mon down in C rank. I think the slime puddle deserves a little higher; its Camperuptite set is pretty brutal. Its innate special bulk means it will shrug off Ice Beams from off STAB sources, and retaliate with a Thunderbolt or Dragon Pulse. Just... don't expect it to take Draco Meteors. They are pretty dang strong in this meta. Nonetheless, it serves the role it always did, and then some; being a special sponge, and then making the attacker pay. (You could also run physical sets, thanks to Sap Sipper. Just find another mega stone for the job.)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-432854445
And this replay (even though I lose) helps explain my points on the others I'll be covering in this post.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-432893785
Now without further ado, Part 2 of my coverage. (My team got ripped apart by Terrakion and Keldeo, but was otherwise really solid...)
Kyruem: A very offensive powerhouse, but its bulk and weakness to both Fighting and Fairy may disappoint you. Glalite is still really good for nuking a bunch of slower folks, though I'm starting to think Pinsirite may actually be a worthwhile mindgame due to how rare Rock coverage is. The ice monster's worthy of A-rank, if only due to its incredible power.
Typhlosion: It was only a matter of time. I know what you're all thinking: "But Zephyr, Typhlosion pales in comparison to all of these cool Red Orb users! *whips out a large scroll*" And while that might be true, Typhlosion has one thing over most of them: Earthquake. And you can bet you'll get a bunch of Heatrans on your tail with this. And don't try to deal with Entei unless you have to. Stone Edge DOES hurt. Also, the main Fire and Grass moves have oomph behind them, thanks to that Special Attack boost. Kind of reminds me of Charizard Y, really.
Milotic: It's good. REALLY good. Maybe I jut got a good sample, but Aggronite Milotic's a fantastic -ate check, and good at walling a bunch of stuff in general. Glalite Weavile has problems, Kyruem has problems... anything outside of strong Fighting and Electric types have problems. And stuff with rest. This is kind of passive outside of status infliction.
Metagross: This gives Cobalion a run for its money. In exchange for some bulk, speed, and a better boosting move, Metagross gets more immediate power, more coverage, and Meteor Mash, which is the best Steel STAB you can ask for. Pinsirite Metagross is a fantastic Zygarde check/counter, floating over pretty much everything that it can do. Oh, and it breaks any Blissey at +1. Utterly fantastic, and I'd highly recommend it if you're having Zygarde issues, or just need something beefy in general.
Goodra: Yeah, that mon down in C rank. I think the slime puddle deserves a little higher; its Camperuptite set is pretty brutal. Its innate special bulk means it will shrug off Ice Beams from off STAB sources, and retaliate with a Thunderbolt or Dragon Pulse. Just... don't expect it to take Draco Meteors. They are pretty dang strong in this meta. Nonetheless, it serves the role it always did, and then some; being a special sponge, and then making the attacker pay. (You could also run physical sets, thanks to Sap Sipper. Just find another mega stone for the job.)
My thoughts
Mandibuzz: B seems good to me. It doesn't have the best matchup versus a lot of offensive mons and notably competes with Zapdos in terms of role (not to mention Blue Orb Skarmory), but having the ability to really threaten Ampharosite SR users is really nice and is mostly unique as far as hazard removers go.
Deoxys-S: I think this can go A+. There's not too much immediate counterplay to Ampharosite Deoxys and it has a pretty useful defensive typing that some offense squads would love, offering a decent last-ditch switchin to Pidgeotite Thundurus / Victini. The speed tier, spikes and Psycho Boost help it distinguish itself from Mew (who does the stallbreaker thing way better) and carve a niche on offensive teams.
Skarmory: Taunt and Whirldwind/Roar are key points here that make me agree with A+; both offer a lot more than dual stabs or spikes. It's also easily the most reliable hazard remover in a tier that is often desperate for removal.
Kyurem: I'm unsure about this one. I dislike that it has such serious issues with notable metagame fixture Blissey on offensive sets, while defensive sets are weak to the omnipresent fighting types and don't do much to check -iatespeeders or Pidgeotite users. I think I'd need to see replays of this in action to form a strong opinions.
Mandibuzz: B seems good to me. It doesn't have the best matchup versus a lot of offensive mons and notably competes with Zapdos in terms of role (not to mention Blue Orb Skarmory), but having the ability to really threaten Ampharosite SR users is really nice and is mostly unique as far as hazard removers go.
Deoxys-S: I think this can go A+. There's not too much immediate counterplay to Ampharosite Deoxys and it has a pretty useful defensive typing that some offense squads would love, offering a decent last-ditch switchin to Pidgeotite Thundurus / Victini. The speed tier, spikes and Psycho Boost help it distinguish itself from Mew (who does the stallbreaker thing way better) and carve a niche on offensive teams.
Skarmory: Taunt and Whirldwind/Roar are key points here that make me agree with A+; both offer a lot more than dual stabs or spikes. It's also easily the most reliable hazard remover in a tier that is often desperate for removal.
Kyurem: I'm unsure about this one. I dislike that it has such serious issues with notable metagame fixture Blissey on offensive sets, while defensive sets are weak to the omnipresent fighting types and don't do much to check -iatespeeders or Pidgeotite users. I think I'd need to see replays of this in action to form a strong opinions.
Have you considered using a Soul Dew Latias (or Latios) in it's place? Similar bulk, higher power STABs, larger movepool including reliable recovery, more versatility with Healing Wish/Defog etc (not that you have to use those), sort of checks Pdon, and Psychic's weaknesses aren't that right now notable, outside of Pidgeotite Gengar. Just thought your team seemed a little vulnerable to ground types. This also checks Keldeo way better.
Mew used to deserve S rank but really ever since it lost its ability to use Zap Cannon and Dynamic Punch, it has lost its groove. It easily loses to things like Zygarde (Yeah unless Zygarde's not boosted), Entei, Mewtwo, and even Groudon-Primal and Hoopa-Unbound, It should be B rank at max if not A. It doesn't have much it can do offensively anymore since it can't hit as hard as most of the other commoners today, yet it still has good coverage so at least that's an advantage. The coverage isn't enough though. Defensively it never would really work as well as Pokemon like Blissey who has an A+ rank because they specifically have more bulk and while they have less support moves, they still have enough to support themselves.
Also, if Baton Pass is a problem, can't that just be banned?
Also, if Baton Pass is a problem, can't that just be banned?
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Mew can cripple Zygarde with Will-O-Wisp, Nasty Plot set OHKOes with +2 Ice Beam or Blizzard (Pidgeotite) and unboosted ESpeed doesn't kill Mew. Sablenite Calm Mind Mew can set up on Entei (that set can viably run Iron Defense to get past Entei and the like), Entei also hates getting Toxic'd from stallbreaker. I hardly ever see Mewtwo, not sure why you bought that up. Primal Groudon also eventually loses to the Sablenite Calm Mind set if it lacks Swords Dance, Nasty Plot Mew can OHKO with +2 Earth Power (viable option to hit bulky Red Orb users). Hoopa Unbound loses to the albeit uncommon Lopunnite set, but is a solid answer to it otherwise. While Mew lacks Blissey's raw bulk, it has Taunt and Roar to prevent itself being set up fodder, and U-turn to grab momentum - Blissey has none of that. Coverage isn't enough? What do you mean, you can pick and choose what you want to eliminate, that's what gives Mew its niche over the likes of Keldeo.
No way is Mew going to B rank. Not being mean here, but you should probably play the meta more.
I really want to say that I Adamantly disagree with Mew being S. It was moved there with very little discussion prior to it and the S ranks right now... Are looking like a poor representation of September MnM, more like February MnM. The metagame adapts even though MnM isn't playable. Mew was amazing when it had access to Zap cannon and Dynamic punch blah blah, it easily broke balance and offence i've said this before and tired of repeating myself lmao.
I don't think y'all are seeing the difference between being a jack of all trades and versatile. Just because Mew has a large move-pool it doesn't mean it's literally a un-wallable monster that every team struggles with, that's just not true. There's pokemon that are versatile, like Primal Groudon, because it has three-four great sets that are trouble some regardless of your team because that's just how good PDon is, and Mew isn't like that. It has a dozen good sets, but no great ones.
I rarely keep Mew specifically in mind when team-building anymore, because it doesn't preform a good role the best. By that I mean it has roles that only it can do, but that doesn't mean said role is good(Baton pass). And the roles that it simply falls flat at preforming. It's a shit tier defogger in a metagame where you can use Arcues forms which can change typings or Skarmory which is one of the best defensive pokemon in the metagame. Mew isn't getting past Magic bouncers with rocks unless it has Ampharosite, and in that case I'd rather use Clefable or Pdon since they have overall better performance. For a Calm Minder why wouldn't I use Reuniclues, Keldeo, Raikou or Suicune? More powerful, better typings or coverage - that's what they offer over Mew. What's next, Baton pass? Eh... It's the best at doing it but It really doesn't preform that well because of the lack of good recipients, and you're really limiting yourself to one thing(Using up your Sablenite btw). Lets keep going, SD? Jesus christ why... Psychic + Fighting is awful. Like, good luck with that... At +2 you're doing 57% max to Skarmory which either Whirlwinds you out or takes the roll with Brave Bird. Idk why you guys are under the impression that this is the best way to use your Lopunnite, use Staraptor atleast, it does almost as much as +2 Drain punch with Close Combat... Also why... in the world would you use Nasty plot when you can use Thundurus? Thundurus has like zero counters as well and hits like a fucking truck.
ChrystalFalchion Mew can't do all of that at once, Mew isn't this magical creature(lol) with Taunt, Recovery, Swords Dance, Iron defence, Zen Headbutt, Sucker Punch, Drain Punch, Will o Wisp, Earth power, Ice beam, Nasty plot, Flamethrower, Thunderbolt.
Yeah, you can prevent being fodder running Taunt or roar, but you're really limiting yourself. Boosting move, Taunt, Recovery + Coverage that doesn't have any immunities. Even then you're really going to have a hard time. Psychic leaves you at the mercy of Dark and Steel type. Flamethrower, Earth power, Thunderbolt and Shadow ball all have common immunities on almost any team, are you really going to be PP stalling everything? What else, Ice beam and Dark pulse? Good luck getting through Primal Groudon. If you drop Taunt then you'll get set up on because Mew is piss... weak... +6 doesn't even 2hko Blissey with Psychic lol. If you're running Psyshock + Aura sphere/Focus Blast then you're still going to be set up on and take 80% from Preciples blades.
The fact that you guys barely managed to scape together two replays of Mew is enough. Mew should have been S before the Zap/Dpunch ban easily, but right now it's pretty much meh. Keldeo, Entei and Pdon should be S.
(Mew should be A imo, for now)
I don't think y'all are seeing the difference between being a jack of all trades and versatile. Just because Mew has a large move-pool it doesn't mean it's literally a un-wallable monster that every team struggles with, that's just not true. There's pokemon that are versatile, like Primal Groudon, because it has three-four great sets that are trouble some regardless of your team because that's just how good PDon is, and Mew isn't like that. It has a dozen good sets, but no great ones.
I rarely keep Mew specifically in mind when team-building anymore, because it doesn't preform a good role the best. By that I mean it has roles that only it can do, but that doesn't mean said role is good(Baton pass). And the roles that it simply falls flat at preforming. It's a shit tier defogger in a metagame where you can use Arcues forms which can change typings or Skarmory which is one of the best defensive pokemon in the metagame. Mew isn't getting past Magic bouncers with rocks unless it has Ampharosite, and in that case I'd rather use Clefable or Pdon since they have overall better performance. For a Calm Minder why wouldn't I use Reuniclues, Keldeo, Raikou or Suicune? More powerful, better typings or coverage - that's what they offer over Mew. What's next, Baton pass? Eh... It's the best at doing it but It really doesn't preform that well because of the lack of good recipients, and you're really limiting yourself to one thing(Using up your Sablenite btw). Lets keep going, SD? Jesus christ why... Psychic + Fighting is awful. Like, good luck with that... At +2 you're doing 57% max to Skarmory which either Whirlwinds you out or takes the roll with Brave Bird. Idk why you guys are under the impression that this is the best way to use your Lopunnite, use Staraptor atleast, it does almost as much as +2 Drain punch with Close Combat... Also why... in the world would you use Nasty plot when you can use Thundurus? Thundurus has like zero counters as well and hits like a fucking truck.
ChrystalFalchion Mew can't do all of that at once, Mew isn't this magical creature(lol) with Taunt, Recovery, Swords Dance, Iron defence, Zen Headbutt, Sucker Punch, Drain Punch, Will o Wisp, Earth power, Ice beam, Nasty plot, Flamethrower, Thunderbolt.
Yeah, you can prevent being fodder running Taunt or roar, but you're really limiting yourself. Boosting move, Taunt, Recovery + Coverage that doesn't have any immunities. Even then you're really going to have a hard time. Psychic leaves you at the mercy of Dark and Steel type. Flamethrower, Earth power, Thunderbolt and Shadow ball all have common immunities on almost any team, are you really going to be PP stalling everything? What else, Ice beam and Dark pulse? Good luck getting through Primal Groudon. If you drop Taunt then you'll get set up on because Mew is piss... weak... +6 doesn't even 2hko Blissey with Psychic lol. If you're running Psyshock + Aura sphere/Focus Blast then you're still going to be set up on and take 80% from Preciples blades.
The fact that you guys barely managed to scape together two replays of Mew is enough. Mew should have been S before the Zap/Dpunch ban easily, but right now it's pretty much meh. Keldeo, Entei and Pdon should be S.
(Mew should be A imo, for now)
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I was probably underrating it saying that I'd suggest it would be B but like Grains of Salt said, Mew can only run 4 moves at a time and a megastone. Certain Mew cannot defeat other Pokemon and still yet doesn't do as well. I have absolutely no proof but that's just my experience.
Note to self: Find proof.
Note to self: Find proof.
Funbot28
Banned deucer.
I totally disagree with Mew dropping as its ridiculously unpredictable with its versatility within its sets that really sets it apart from other threats in A+. Loppunite, Sablenite, Ampharosite/Gyaradosite, Pidgeotite, Slowbronite, Red Orb, the list can go on and on and all these sets are more or less on the same level of viability. Its one of the best answers to the scariest wallbreaker in the meta in Lucarionite/Pidgeotite Keldeo while it can still check/counter most of the mons through S-A ranks. The new
Edit: here are some replays of BP Mew btw:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-432551203
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-43271344
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-433115283
Ampharosite Taunt Deoxys-S can basically setup at least 2-3 layers of hazards for free every match and is one of the best leads for offense. This utility in hazards helps out other wallbreakers tremendously and can be a huge factor in deciding matches due to the volatility of powerful mons this meta has. I have also recently tried the Pidgeotite and Sablenite sets and they also act as other great options with the former having unmatched speed with great power in breaking down walls and the ladder pertaining a good use as a anti-hazard lead. Deo-S is definitely infleuncial to the meta no doubt about it and it fits perfectly with the rest of the A+ mons.
Why wasn't this in A+ already lol. Anyways, Blue Orb Skarmory is an amazing physical wall that is one of the best answers to -atespeed that we have and acts as like the only sure Primal Groudon counter. It provides beautiful hazard removal and is a great phazer with Whirlwind. Acts as a great partner to Sablenite/Slowbronite Blissey creating the infamous SkarmBliss core. So many physical walls run Electric coverage just to deal with it, which greatly demonstrates it's influence on the meta. Not much else to say really, always puts in work every game with my playtesting at least.
I just tried Cameruptite Kyureum yesterday and holy crap it just destroys shit. Its bulky and has great offensive typing. Most teams don't have an answer to it as it can setup 101 Subtitutes which stops Blissey from its tracks really. It is weak to -atespeed which truly does hurt its viability, although if it could setup a subsitute, it can be a pain to take down. I agree with it rising.
My own noms now:
Entei may actually combat Zygarde as the best -atespeed at this point of time due to it being more powerful with Sacred Fire just burning shit which lets it break down walls really easily. Howl sets are becoming more popular as well which helps it break down stuff like Mew and Blissey. It does have a problem getting past Skarmory which is a problem and SR is a bitch to it, but it really defines the meta enough to go S-Rank.
This thing is my most feared mon when I see it in team preview tbh. Water/Fighting is just amazing offensively and in conjunction with Lucarionite/Pidgeotite, finding answers to it can become extremely hard to find an answer to it besides -atespeed and Ampharosite Mew. Its so hard to explain why it should rise as I find its truly that obvious imo, but its ability to restrict teambuilidng makes me believe its worthy of A+.
Have more stuff to talk about but wanted to clean up S and A first.
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Mew is definitely good, but not worthy of S rank.
Most Offensive teams usually just kill it with brute force.
Entei, Hoopa-u, Primal-Groudon, kyogre, Landorous (explosion), zygarde (facade), scizor, ghostceus, LO shadow force ekiller, Mega Gengar (Destiny Bond), Mold Breaker taunt/toxic, or any crazy wall breaker.
Most Pokemon can tank a hit and nuke it in return, so offense isn't losing too much momentum further aided by the fact that Mew will never be able to safely setup.
On balance/semi stall
Our supreme balance overlord Ho-oh just murders mew and can even absorb hypnosis with sleep talk. Blissey Walls offensive mew if that is troubling and Primal Groudon can burn it with plume or setup SD. If it reveals something that surprises your normal check, literally just switch to something the check it back. For example, if mew reveals Pinsirite and damages ho oh, just switch to the ate check, not that complicated. (The ate set is horribly outclassed anyway)
Basically, mew does not possess the god level power of the other extremely centralized S ranked Pokemon who are ironically more versatile and by far more powerful. Primal Groudon and Zygarde will absolutely almost always put in more work than mew setting up rocks or sweeping teams in the blink of an eye. Psychic typing isn't helping its case either.
Moving on to the positive... I found offensive mew sets very potent and destructive simply due to access to nasty plot and coverage. Hypnosis makes sure it isn't completely outclassed by other no guard users. Only downside is the power. Mew should probably be A or A+
Most Offensive teams usually just kill it with brute force.
Entei, Hoopa-u, Primal-Groudon, kyogre, Landorous (explosion), zygarde (facade), scizor, ghostceus, LO shadow force ekiller, Mega Gengar (Destiny Bond), Mold Breaker taunt/toxic, or any crazy wall breaker.
Most Pokemon can tank a hit and nuke it in return, so offense isn't losing too much momentum further aided by the fact that Mew will never be able to safely setup.
On balance/semi stall
Our supreme balance overlord Ho-oh just murders mew and can even absorb hypnosis with sleep talk. Blissey Walls offensive mew if that is troubling and Primal Groudon can burn it with plume or setup SD. If it reveals something that surprises your normal check, literally just switch to something the check it back. For example, if mew reveals Pinsirite and damages ho oh, just switch to the ate check, not that complicated. (The ate set is horribly outclassed anyway)
Basically, mew does not possess the god level power of the other extremely centralized S ranked Pokemon who are ironically more versatile and by far more powerful. Primal Groudon and Zygarde will absolutely almost always put in more work than mew setting up rocks or sweeping teams in the blink of an eye. Psychic typing isn't helping its case either.
Moving on to the positive... I found offensive mew sets very potent and destructive simply due to access to nasty plot and coverage. Hypnosis makes sure it isn't completely outclassed by other no guard users. Only downside is the power. Mew should probably be A or A+
Would still like for someone to hopefully fix the behaviour of Forme changes (Such as Meloetta-Pirouette and Deoxys-Blade) with Mega Evolution. I don't know how this still hasn't happened yet. This is what, the third time Mix & Mega has been OMotM? And it's getting a rotational ladder in Gen 7. This needs to be fixed before the semi-permanent ladder goes up, at the very least.
When a Pokémon with multiple Formes Megas, their Forme is supposed to lock to whatever it currently is. That means a Mega Meloetta-Aria shouldn't transform into Meloetta-Pirouette (sans Mega stats!) if it uses Relic Song. It also means that when a Meloetta in Pirouette Forme Megas, it should remain in a Mega with Meloetta-Pirouette's stats as a base, and should not change back to Meloetta-Aria when switched out or upon using Relic Song again.
This stupid glitch single-handedly destroys the viability of several Pokémon.
When a Pokémon with multiple Formes Megas, their Forme is supposed to lock to whatever it currently is. That means a Mega Meloetta-Aria shouldn't transform into Meloetta-Pirouette (sans Mega stats!) if it uses Relic Song. It also means that when a Meloetta in Pirouette Forme Megas, it should remain in a Mega with Meloetta-Pirouette's stats as a base, and should not change back to Meloetta-Aria when switched out or upon using Relic Song again.
This stupid glitch single-handedly destroys the viability of several Pokémon.
Oh well, RIP
Back to Mew tho... I definetly don't think it should be S. It may be good and all but the other two S ranks are Groundzilla and Zygarde. Pdon has a good bulk and it's typing resists Fairy Atespeeds. It can run SR WoW or just a sweeping hard hitting set. Zygarde with altarianite has a great typing and the coverage it needs. Mew is just subjective. I really doubt there's anything on it that makes Mew the same rank as these two. Sure, it can bulk, but if you want to run Sablenite there are better options. For a batton passer, you have to survive one turn at the least to buff, and depending on the speed, either take a damage on the mon you passed to or mew itself (Risking fainting it and wasting two turns of the battle already). Besides, the most usable mons on this meta have all the boosting moves they need, aside from Entei. For setting up rocks, use Ampharosite Deo-S instead.
As for offense... Psychic really isn't exactally a good typing for it. Hits hard what, Fighting and Poison? I think that's it. The most notable ones on the meta with this typing are Gengar, Lopunnite Staraptor and Terrakion. Terrakion and Gengar die to Pdon's Blades and Staraptor dies to Pinsirite Entei. I really don't see any good offensive stone for it that you wouldn't be wasting. Loppunite has better ones to hold it, Diancite should go on glass cannons like Hoopa-U. As for special, maybe you could run Manectrite but I still don't think it would be as great as S ranked mons.
Mew really is subjective due to wide movepool and base stats being all the same, but there are other offensive and defensive mons that work betten than it
Back to Mew tho... I definetly don't think it should be S. It may be good and all but the other two S ranks are Groundzilla and Zygarde. Pdon has a good bulk and it's typing resists Fairy Atespeeds. It can run SR WoW or just a sweeping hard hitting set. Zygarde with altarianite has a great typing and the coverage it needs. Mew is just subjective. I really doubt there's anything on it that makes Mew the same rank as these two. Sure, it can bulk, but if you want to run Sablenite there are better options. For a batton passer, you have to survive one turn at the least to buff, and depending on the speed, either take a damage on the mon you passed to or mew itself (Risking fainting it and wasting two turns of the battle already). Besides, the most usable mons on this meta have all the boosting moves they need, aside from Entei. For setting up rocks, use Ampharosite Deo-S instead.
As for offense... Psychic really isn't exactally a good typing for it. Hits hard what, Fighting and Poison? I think that's it. The most notable ones on the meta with this typing are Gengar, Lopunnite Staraptor and Terrakion. Terrakion and Gengar die to Pdon's Blades and Staraptor dies to Pinsirite Entei. I really don't see any good offensive stone for it that you wouldn't be wasting. Loppunite has better ones to hold it, Diancite should go on glass cannons like Hoopa-U. As for special, maybe you could run Manectrite but I still don't think it would be as great as S ranked mons.
Mew really is subjective due to wide movepool and base stats being all the same, but there are other offensive and defensive mons that work betten than it