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Played 26 battles since Grains of Salt said More than 25 battles but w/e
Blazikenite on a mon does one of two things. It either wrecks house or it does nothing. The times where it wrecks house are where you are able to get setup boosts, be it from baton pass or from a free turn via the opponent switching, and then you usually clean through the opponent's team or damage it severely to the point where the opponent is unable to recover. Most of the time it does nothing because there are rarely any free setup turns due to the sheer power scale of this meta. I found my best success with Blazikenite by putting it on a sub-sd Terrak and using the free turns it created to setup and deal damage. The only other time Blazikenite did anything was with setup mew into Pinsirite Arcanine since Arc is able to kill most of its switchins with +2 attack. The unfortunate bit about Blazikenite mons is that they can get revenged by espeed since the best steel type for Blazikenite is Excadrill which is slow to start out and requires an SD to sweep and even then can be phased by Skarmory. Or they allow your own setup mon to force you out or downright sweep you with Ditto. Overall in the current meta Blazikenite does not do enough to be worthy of being banned or limited to Blaziken outside of some forms of baton pass. Since a baton pass clause is being implemented soon, I have no issue with Blazikenite being unbanned.
Unban Blazikenite Implement Baton pass clause
*Edit. If a Bp clause was already implemented my b I didn't notice
https://gyazo.com/384a19e0fb45f62eadebee13fae6cd3d STYLIN' ON THIS SUSPECT EZ
dont be the prick that says more than 25 games if thats actually a thing and 25 isnt allowed bcz i could forfeit and still easily have a gxe over w/e its supposed to be >_>
as for blazikenite i didnt use it and i saw it like twice and neither time was my opp any good so ill give my stance as of rn, but ill test it more and let u know if my opinion changes.
rn i think its honestly broken af. i havent seen it used well, but on something powerful that resists ates it seems like an amazing sweeper/cleaner. for example, metagross gets to 175 base attack w/ speed boost to boot--and it has decent coverage and powerful stabs. pile this on top of possible attack/defense/spd boosts from sablenite mew (aka the most reliable bpasser in the om and the most annoying mon to face) and you have smth that cant be rked in the conventional ways (cough atespeed/weavile cough) with a good typing, ever-higher speed, fantastic attack, and possible other buffs. there are also other mons (like thundy for example) who benefit from the decent spa boost, awesome ability, and thundy has taunt and np. other possible users include chomp, hoopau, ttar, landot, chandelure, archeops, excadrill, keldeo, cobalion, terrakion, etc. which have varying degrees of power, hit from either side of the spectrum (some can go mixed), some have taunt, some have set up, many have at least decent coverage, some aren't rked by atespeed, and all seem very powerful given the proper support. so if i had to say smth right now i would go with ban blazikenite but ill be sure to test it more. also before you lot say it needs protect to get a speed boost reliably this is only true for some mons, others can set up on specific targets after ur opp gets a kill (similar to any other sweeper).
I guess I missed the memo about Blaziken itself being unbanned from using non-native stones (based on the above replay). Is that new? I haven't been keeping up with the OM.
In any case, it should probably have more than Blazikenite listed in the rankings. I'd be curious to hear what other stones people use on it.
I guess I missed the memo about Blaziken itself being unbanned from using non-native stones (based on the above replay). Is that new? I haven't been keeping up with the OM.
In any case, it should probably have more than Blazikenite listed in the rankings. I'd be curious to hear what other stones people use on it.
Lopunnite would be good - Scrappy and 180 base attack would make it incredibly threatening. Aerodactylite gives it a stronger Flare Blitz and High Jump Kick thanks to Tough Claws. You could even try Pinsirite, although I don't recommend that.
Nominating deoxys-s for rank, possibly b. Equipped with an -ate stone such as pincirite or salamancite which increases its speed to a base 200, it can efficiently revenge kill many ate-speed users in the metagame. It outspeeds +2 altarianite Zygard for example and can revenge kill it with only a bit of prior damage. For non -ate-speed users, stab return even with a paltry base 110 attack stat hurts a fair amount to anything that doesn't resist it. I personally run reflect on mine as well to allow it to help a teammate set up just before dying. That leaves another moveslot open for extra coverage; low kick for steel and rock types seems to be a very solid option due to the rarity of electric types, plus team support can take care of them (primal groudon, excadrill etc). Deoxys-s is also quite versatile as it is able to use ampharosite to gain mold breaker and set up entry hazards through magic bounce while still outspeeding tons of stuff. Another option for deoxys-s is cameruptite with a mixed set of psychic, low kick, ice beam and poison jab/thunderbolt to hit everything for neutral damage. And its 95/95 offenses aren't even that horrible especially for a base 180 speed pokemon!
So Gengar has always been a threatening pokemon in MnM. With an extremely diverse move-pool filled with utility in Taunt, Destiny Bond, Will-o-Wisp and Perish song. You add in perfect unresisted coverage in two moves with plenty of coverage and you've got a massive threat on your hand. But too be honest - you know what this does. You know what Pidgoetite does - it puts counters to sleep then wrecks with it's large move-pool. It's very difficult to switch into 195 Special attack and 130 Speed with No guard, it's basically just Blissey, Ho-oh w/ Sleep talk and Vaporeon that can really take it on.
however...
Gengarite is Unbanned. And that just adds a whole other spectrum of power to this thing. Previously you'd be fine with going into one of the pokemon I listed above - or others that I didn't and be fine. This isn't the case anymore, stall-mons now run the risk of simply being trapped my Mega Gengar. With Shadow tag it can take these pokemon by surprise and easily handle them with it's diverse movepool. Perish-song lets it handle almost any defensive threat while it's high special attack threats offence.
This thing was A+ before it had access to Gengarite, it should be S.
Registeel's Primal Reversion! It reverted to its primal form!
[Registeel's Primordial Sea!]
A heavy rain began to fall! Turn 1
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
The opposing Arcanine used Will-O-Wisp!
Registeel was burned!
Registeel's Primal Reversion! It reverted to its primal form!
[Registeel's Primordial Sea!]
A heavy rain began to fall! Turn 1
You have 150 seconds to make your decision.
The opposing Arcanine used Will-O-Wisp!
Registeel was burned!
I'd like to vote Unban on Blazikenite. It wasn't broken in my experience, and only has 2 really good abusers, Landorus-T and Excadrill.
It certainly makes a very effective landorus-T, which I used all the way to recs, but it wasn't gamebreaking and indeed functioned mostly as a revenge killer. Blazikenite is pretty sweet after an SD, but you have to get the opportunity to set up.
VR opinions: Gengar to S: Disagree
Gengar is certainly an extremely viable mon, and one of the best A+ ranks. When compared to Primal groudon and Zygarde, however, it comes short.With Pidgeotite, imo the best set, it loses to sablenite, especially blissey; it falls just short of a truly good speed tier, just fails to OHKO the most common threats and dies to aerilate. With Gengarite, it doesn't really improve outside of beating (Non-shadow ball) Blissey and not taking a slot. It lacks the metagame defining and splashability that I'd like to see before supporting it, and doesn't have quite enough power or speed to get in on that basis.
Instead, I'd suggest Clearing the A ranks
mix and mega suffers from role inflation, as shown by the fact that we have 12 A+ ranks. I'd suggest changing it to only include Mew, Entei, Thundy, Gengar, Skarmory and Arcanine while booting everything else down, or at least something similar.
A rank would probably also have to be fixed a bit; something like keldeo/raikou/cobalion/terrakion/hoopa, and then clean out A- rank as well. If we don't have enough room, we coukd probably remove all of the C and D ranks, leaving maybe hoopa and smeargle (nothing else there is even usable)
Tl;Dr: clear the low ranks, stop inflating the a ranks
So Gengar has always been a threatening pokemon in MnM. With an extremely diverse move-pool filled with utility in Taunt, Destiny Bond, Will-o-Wisp and Perish song. You add in perfect unresisted coverage in two moves with plenty of coverage and you've got a massive threat on your hand. But too be honest - you know what this does. You know what Pidgoetite does - it puts counters to sleep then wrecks with it's large move-pool. It's very difficult to switch into 195 Special attack and 130 Speed with No guard, it's basically just Blissey, Ho-oh w/ Sleep talk and Vaporeon that can really take it on.
however...
Gengarite is Unbanned. And that just adds a whole other spectrum of power to this thing. Previously you'd be fine with going into one of the pokemon I listed above - or others that I didn't and be fine. This isn't the case anymore, stall-mons now run the risk of simply being trapped my Mega Gengar. With Shadow tag it can take these pokemon by surprise and easily handle them with it's diverse movepool. Perish-song lets it handle almost any defensive threat while it's high special attack threats offence.
This thing was A+ before it had access to Gengarite, it should be S.
yeah or gengarite should be banned... has anyone other than quantum (who agreed with me) addressed my arguments? im p sure most ppl can agree gengarite gengar is ridiculous (including u, hence the nom) and i havent seen any noteworthy counter-points as to why it shouldnt have stayed banned. i also dislike the fact that this just happened out of nowhere. relatively irrelevant shit like gren getting unbanned was discussed but i dont recall gengarite (FAR FAR better) ever being discussed, yet it still happened. and isnt this a complex unban (aka what u were trying to get rid of with banning azu @ medichamite)?
K, regarding mega Gengar, you need to realize two things.
1. It's not banned in Ubers, this is an ubers based meta.
2. You may think that "ha, this is a different meta than ubers." Yes, this IS a different meta than Ubers. But you need to realize that Mega Gengar isn't any different from here and Ubers, while everyone here gains something. By that logic, it's easier to handle Mega Gengar here than in Ubers. So if it's not banned in Ubers, no reason to be banned here, as it's no more broken in here than in Ubers.
If you want to continue the argument, I'm fine with it. I'd be using this thread as reference:
Identifying as Heatnite.
Verdict: BAN (but unban if no Gengarite)
Reasoning: Blazikenite is disgusting when used in tandem with trappers, ie; M-Gengar. For instance: I got reqs by combining Blazikenite Lando-T with M-Gengar. M-Gengar removes common ate abusers that could revenge Lando-T (mostly Entei / Arcanine / Zygarde (with no ground stab) / Cobalion etc) and things that would wall Lando-T (Skarmory / other lando-T etc.). Combine this with a good -ate cleaner after you've broken their team and removed their walls and there aren't many teams that can stand up to it (if any). Of course, this is just an isolated strategy and as a whole I don't think Blazikenite is broken by itself. The unbanning of Gengarite however pushes it over the edge and makes it broken for me at least. I wouldn't suggest unbanning Blazikenite with Gengarite still in the meta.
Somehow I got reqs despite lacking experience in this meta.
Since I don't really have any experience (I didn't play this meta when it was OMotM before, at all), I'll share my thoughts based on experience. Basically, it's not broken. With many -atespeeders running around (mostly I saw Entei and Zygarde, few Arcanine) or even Ekiller being used (it's surprising good btw), Speed Boost mons can barely sweep at all. If you want to sweep, you have to be Steel type, or you must clear opposing -atespeeders. Thing is, the Steel type that has an attack enough to sweep is only Excadrill and Metagross, and Metagross basically has crap dual STABs, making it really hard to sweep. Excadrill being so frail (it takes ~40% from Glalitite Weavile's Fake Out) prevents it from setting up SD. Also, +40 Attack without any boosting Ability like Adapt or Tough Claws isn't much. It may be good in theory, but I haven't seen it does significant work so far.
K, regarding mega Gengar, you need to realize two things.
1. It's not banned in Ubers, this is an ubers based meta.
2. You may think that "ha, this is a different meta than ubers." Yes, this IS a different meta than Ubers. But you need to realize that Mega Gengar isn't any different from here and Ubers, while everyone here gains something. By that logic, it's easier to handle Mega Gengar here than in Ubers. So if it's not banned in Ubers, no reason to be banned here, as it's no more broken in here than in Ubers.
If you want to continue the argument, I'm fine with it. I'd be using this thread as reference:
That sounds well and good, but it isn't actually the case: here's why.
First off, it does improve. Mega Gengar doesn't steal your mega slot anymore, so it can be run alongside offensive mons and remove their counter, which it would kill to do in ubers (MGar+MMence cores would be super broken). It can also effectively bluff pidgeotite, which has far different counters, and its opponents can no longer afford to run shed shell.
Secondly, it has more targets. In Ubers stall is nonexistance, balance is rare, and pdon is everywhere. here, however, it has bulky mons galore, simply because -ate/hoopa/fast offense smashes everything frail.
Thirdly is teammates. In ubers, MGar has 0 good pivoters, and here it has an overabundance- Red Orb Raikou, Thundy, Lando, Mew, Victini, Cobalion, Zapdos... In addition, there are far more nukes with passive walls, such as Red Orb Raikou again or Keldeo.
Finally, It's still as uncompetative as F*, just like it was in ubers. Switching is perhaps the most important part of pokemon, and Mega Gengar invalidates that. It's not that you have 1 counter to shadow tag, you have to have 6, and that's just stupid.
Honestly, Excadrill is an amazing Blazikenite user, easily the best. It's capable of blowing through offensive teams easily, and after an SD, bulky ones too. However, Excadrill itself isn't perfect. It has to run Protect or else it's outsped and OHKOd by way too much. Skarmory is also a pretty big cockblock, and Salamencite Lando after Intimidate is a big issue for it. If you don't run Iron Head, which it won't be able to always fit on, EQ Altarianite Zygarde is a pretty solid answer to unboosted, and Latiasite Heatran is decent as an answer too. It's an amazing Pokemon (A+ worthy imo), but in the end, it's not as broken as I first thought it was. It didn't always come out, but neither did Genesect and that was borked af. You're also forced to set up SD on bulky 'mons that can't OHKO you because you are pretty frail. Fitting SD and Protect on the same set is also a pretty huge hassle, meaning you're either walled by Pinsirite Entei or Altarianite Zygarde (though not as badly, but it still lives 1 hit and KOs back with EQ). At first I thought it was borked, but after playing at the higher echelons of the ladder, which almost always carries some sort of ground resist that can beat Exca, I've come to the conclusion that while it's strong vs unprepared teams, Pidgeotite Gengar and Red Orb Raikou are as well, and most -atespeed checks work vs Exca too.
EDIT: Also, Lando-T seems pretty nice, but it's RKd by Weavile and some Espeeders when weakened. It sets up much easier though thanks to pre mega intimidate. Both Exca and Lando have pros and cons ig
However, on other Blazikenite users, they're not that incredibly borked. If you're not a steel type (the only decent ones are Metagross and Exca), -atespeeders RK most of them. tbh though the only Blazikenite user I ran into was Gallade, who was easily RKd by my Entei on my second team.
Honestly, while I started out thinking I'd vote Ban, I think in the end I'm going to vote DO NOT BAN on Blazikenite. The best user is definitely beatable, if a pain for offense, and everything else is KOd by -atespeed anyways. It's no worse than -atespeed tbh, and most teams have an -atespeeder.
On other notes, this suspect I used Deo-S a bunch, and I have to say I love it oml. It won't always get multiple layers of hazards up, heck sometimes if you don't predict the stone their -atespeeder's running correctly you don't get any up at all. When it does work, though, good lord. With the experience I have now with it, I'd have voted Do Not Ban though during the Deo suspect due to not always getting up hazards. Gyaradosite and Ampharosite are definitely it's best stones, though.
This is the team I did most of the run with. The first thing you'll notice is that there's no -atespeed :O. tbh I've never found myself missing -atespeed, though. Basically, you lead of with Deo and set hazards if possible. The last slot was a tossup. Initially I ran Psycho Boost but never found myself clicking it so I looked for something else. Dark Pulse was for Starmies who tried Rapid Spin spamming me, 2hkoing most that tried it. However, this too was rather useless. Finally, I settled on Magic Coat to screw with other Deo-S after being caught by it from someone else. Next, I had Exca itself. I used Rock Slide to keep Pinsirite Entei from RKing me but ig you could use Iron Head if you hate Zygarde that much. Heatran beats it usually though so yeah. SD helped it sweep so many times early on oml. Next, we have Thundy to break Blue Orb Skarms, and be a win condition. Thunder because it's Pidgeotite and it hits hard af. Nasty Plot to boost and become really powerful real quick. It also provides me with a TTar check (ironically enough). tbh Thundy's the one I'm least sure on but w/e. Next, we have another electric and another ESpeed check in Red Orb Raikou. This thing terrorised low ladder good Arceus. Weather Ball is a 150 base power STAB attack in sun, with Thunderbolt being secondary STAB. HP Ice hits grounds like Chomper harder than Weather Ball and forms a lethal neutral coverage set between it's other moves. Finally, CM lets me boost and decimate teams, setting up on Skarms too scared to Whirlwind and decimating things. Next, we have Lucarionite Keldeo, who's job is to break Sablenite users and some Ferrothorns, as well as be a huge pain for Weavile and Scald burn spreader. Focus Blast is there specifically for Primal Groudon, an otherwise counter. Finally, Latiasite Heatran is my Zygarde check and primary stallbreaker, Lava Pluming Sableniters for burns and Taunting and Toxic stalling everything else that's bulky and not named Blue Orb ferrothorn (who is setup bait for a healthy Excadrill and Raikou, as well as broken by Keldeo). Flash Cannon OHKOs Altarianite Zygarde. It also checks other Excadrills.
The team has to sac something to Pidgeotite Hypnosis Gengar but other than that it can hold it's own vs almost everything else. Dual Dance Primal Groudon can be an issue, though.
Landorus-Therian @ Pinsirite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Rock Polish
This is my second team, the one I finished the run with. While it's also centered around Excadrill with Blazikenite, it takes a different approach. This team uses Mega Gengar to trap and remove the Pokemon that trouble Exca, and the duo can threaten most teams. The set I used on Geng was Destiny Bond Taunt, which will guarantee a kill vs most bulky Pokemon. It also traps and either removes or heavily weakens Mews. Exca set is the same as before for the same reasons, as is the Deo set. The next three 'mons are a bit different to the first, though. The first difference is Altarianite Entei, who RKs Zygarde, even Dragon Danced versions, and can clean weakened teams. Pretty standard set, though. Stone Edge for Pinsirite Enteis. Hoopa-U is my Hypnosis switchin, or at least deters it from being mindlessly thrown off. It also wallbreaks for the team, nailing Mews. When not megad, it can actually switch in on some special attacks. Hyperspace Hole is for opposing Diancite/Protect users, KOing most after they mega. Finally, I needed a PDon answer, so I went with Pinsirite Lando-T as this is an offensive team. It also acts as a secondary win condition with Rock Polish, at worst weakening walls and stuff for Exca.
I didn't really use it enough to gauge any real weaknesses.
so I was going to try and get reqs but then I got all the bad luck ever so theres no way ill be able to vote but I can atleast share my opinion on blazikenite. its really not that great tbh. giving stuff speed boost isn't that op when the meta is full of e speed and the stats aren't anything to write home about so if I could vote I would vote unban.
Got them reqs (facing Speed Pass Mews at the beginning made me tilt and lose at the start dear lord...)
Unban Blazikenite
Ya Speed Boost is scary to face on powerful wallbreakers with other setup moves and I won't lie that it is difficult to stop after a couple of boots, however I believe the meta as a whole is capable of dealing with the likes of Blazkenite Landorus-T (I'm sorry, Lando-T is the best abuser of the stone since Intimidate pre-mega is a blessing) with the likes of -atespeed and faster more powerful threats making it quite difficult to actually let the Blazkenite abusers to start boosting right off the bat. It is a very good stone, but not that broken as others initially thought it would be.
Thoughts on the current noms:
A -> S:Agree Gengar is like the actual most feared threat I am scared of when I face it due to Pidgar being able to abuse Hypnosis shenanigans practically forcing me to have a sleep sac most of the time and Shadow Ball + Focus Blast pretty much hits everything in the meta super hard with it (Substitute is another great option that people need to use more too I feel). Yes -atespeed is a bitch to it and Sablenite Blissey walls it, but with Sub, Gengar can usually outlast these countermeasures pretty easily anyways. Mega Gengar is just broken but I will get to that later...
A+ -> A: Agree I honeslty don't really like Weavile all that much as it always falls a bit short when I face it and when I use it myself. It's best set atm to me is the PuP Scizorite set that can decently be really threatening after even just one attack boost, but the lack of Knock Off's great power really hampers Weavile's ability to break through certain walls like it could in standard play which means it is usually forced to switch out when faced againts a bulky mon. Its frail af too which means -ates just KO it pretty much all the time as well. Especially with Pdon everywhere, Weavile isn't that amazing atm.
I agree we should clear out the A-Ranks and here are my prepositions with a little note attached to each nom (or else my post will be too large lol):
A+ -> A: Faces a lot of competition with its two best stones in Red Orb and Pidgeotite. Meta is also really prepared for Fire types thanks to Pdon and Entei being everywhere.
A -> A+: one of the best SR setters and overall blanket checks to a bunch of things rn (especially -ates), also really good Raikou check pre-mega.
A -> A+: Nothing appreciates a Sun boosted Weather Ball from this thing besides Tran pre-mega and Blissey, and Ferrothorn. Also a great Fairy and Fire resist which is pretty important in this meta.
A -> A-: Is pretty outclassed by Landorus-T, Cobalion, Klinklang and Gyarados as a Pinsirite user. Doesn't have any other good sets besides -ate as well.
A -> A+: (if Blazikenite stays) Speed Boost + Swords Dance Lando-T is pretty much the most dangerous threat to face rn maybe besides DD Zygarde. Also its other sets are great as well and Intimidate pre-mega is soo good.
A- -> B+: Doesn't really appreciate all the Fire types running around even with the Dragon typing, can be really passive at times and not a reliable -ate check.
Also add Deo-S in A+ (think u forgot to add that in last slate)
Finally...
Suspect Gengarite
I never really liked the idea of this monster ever coming back in the meta and my initial hypothesis still holds true. Mega Gengar is pretty uncompetitive as its support is just too good for the meta to handle. It has the luxury of being able to customize its set to suit what ur team needs to trap and get rid of in order to allow them to sweep later on (a.k.a -ates + Mega Gar). The comparisons to Ubers don't really make sense to me as like Quantum Tesseract stated previously, this meta is more bulky compared to Ubers and Mega Gar could be runned with other extremely powerful mons in this case to further perpetuate its capabilities. Its pretty toxic for the meta and I feel it would be better off banned right now.
I'm done now ;)
Edit: I lied, this is the team I was running to get reqs since everybody is posting theirs:
The best users for me are exadrill, Lando-T(if Ate speed is removed), and metagross i tried a few others but they all seamed lack luster Magnezone/heatran just don't hit hard enough to 1hko Most of the users. sure it's a great stone giving a pretty big offensive boost(40/20/20) and at plus one speed you can outspeed everything short of deo-S depending on investment but with Atespeed everywhere mons bulky enough to tank hits there is no way it should be sweaping early game.
Now for what i think the best abusers are:
Exadrill: an imunity to T-Wave is really nice not that I saw much of it and between its stabs and rockslide it could tank anywhere from one to two Ate-speeds and Ko back.
252+ Atk Pixilate Entei Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 84 Def Excadrill: 127-150 (35.1 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
the set I used most of the time was:
Excadrill @ Blazikenite
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 84 Def / 174 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Protect
I decided boosting wasn't important since it would generally be a late game sweeper when things would be weakened so I opted for full coverage and protect max attack was necessary because of the lack of boosting and it still can't 1hko a fresh zygarde
252+ Atk Excadrill Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 218-260 (60.8 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
but the bulk investment lets it take an EQ if it lacks stab(altarinaite/Pinsirite)
252+ Atk Zygarde Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 84 Def Excadrill: 304-358 (84.2 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and will die to a not yet megad arcanine thanks to intimidate
I pulled some points from speed so at plus one he outspeeds everything up to 151(absolite thunderous)
and low investment+nature Deo-S premega
442.5 vs the hazard set in the calc: 440 timid 18 evs
this allows better tanking of Espeeds when neacassary and gives it a better chance vs fakeattack weavile
252+ Atk Refrigerate Weavile Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 84 Def Excadrill: 130-154 (36 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
sand rush has a little use but ingeneral, but some times it is in sandstorm and it lets you skip the protect
Landorus-T is a deacent user as well thanks to it's attack and intimidate premega but it requires that Weavile/Mamoswine be dead and buried first as the most defensive version will be outspeed at plus one and anything less will be Kod by fakeout
252+ Atk Refrigerate Weavile Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 316-376 (82.7 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
or just flat out killed by lucaronite mamoswine
252+ Atk Adaptability Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 336-400 (87.9 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
and it is hit harder by Espeed as well thanks to the lack of resist
Metagross has it's niche but will struggle with out boosts to kill Espeeders. but it does have better coverage(thunderpunch) for blue orb skarm, and it keeps an ice resistance in exchange for a sucker punch weakness.
heatran and magnezone don't hit hard enough to be 1hko the espeeders and are Kod back by the main coverage forms maybe if you passed a nastyplot on them they could work
I didn't test any fire types but Heatran but they might be usable for ice/fairy resist Victini Stands out as espeed lets the speed dip of v-create be bypassed(granted using it makes it more vulnerable to espeed) and it has excellent coverage and descent bulk.
and team i threw together for this
Excadrill @ Blazikenite
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 84 Def / 174 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Protect
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Fire Punch
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
Other people have already said everything I wanted to say and said it better than I could.
On another note, some sets I've had surprisingly good results with:
Heatran @ Ampharosite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse / Taunt
An offensive Stealth Rock set. Thanks to the Ampharosite, you can set Stealth Rock against Pokémon with Magic Bounce. Fire Blast is the main STAB. Earth Power 2HKOes Primal Groudon and OHKOes Latiasite Heatran, bypassing Levitate thanks to Mold Breaker. Dragon Pulse can be used as a reliable STAB, while Taunt can shut down weak walls like Sablenite Blissey.
Raikou @ Manectite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Shadow Ball / Calm Mind
Designed as a fast offensive pivot. With 145 base Speed post mega it ties with Glalite Weavile and outruns Absolite Mew. Volt Switch lets you bring in a teammate safely and scout switch ins. Thunderbolt is a strong, reliable STAB. Hidden Power Ice OHKOes Landorus-T. Shadow Ball OHKOes Pidgeotite Gengar after Stealth Rock, while Calm Mind can be used to boost.
Simple physical sweeper. I know what you're thinking - why would I use that when Altarianite Entei / Arcanine exist? Just pair it with Toxic Blue Orb Skarmory, and you're good to go. Dragon Dance lets you outrun everything. Low Kick is the main STAB, since most Pokémon you face are very heavy. Stone Edge is the alternate STAB, hitting the likes of Skarmory very hard. Ice Punch is a more reliable way to hit Flying types, and also lets you hit Grass and Dragon types. Lopunnite gives you insane power and a nice speed boost. Post mega you have 91 base speed, 194 base attack and solid 100/120/100 defences. Not to mention the SpD boost you get in a Sandstorm for the first 5 turns.
don't have reqs but heres a replay showing how good Gengarite can potentially be in mnm
in normal ubers, Skarm and Blissey can hold Shed Shell and many of them do, but that doesn't happen here for obvious reasons http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-439635937
Regular Mega Gengar.... isn't really an issue if you're playing smart. Sure, it can Destiny Bond, but Pidgeotite Mega Gengar flatly outclasses it, except when it comes to taking down Blissey, and maybe a few other niche cases, such as Shuckle.
Anyways... that's not what I'm here to post about. (reqs will come later, along with more in-depth threat evaluations) I'm here to cover some of the things you may never see. Someone's got to do it.
(If you want replays of these following mons in action, just ask. I've got a few stored up.)
Stunfisk: The flatfish is horribly underrated anyways, so I decided to take it for a spin. Latiasite Stunfisk is quite fun, if a bit weak in terms of power. It does get Pain Split, which helps with taking more hits. It likes when Primal Groudons (futily) attempt to Precipice Blades the first turn that it's in, and really dislikes specially bulky Sablenite mons, mostly due to Toxic being thrown around... (Of course, it can also run Sablenite itself, and do decently well...)
Swoobat:.... Is garbage. Way too frail and/or slow to really set up. There are better options for Stored Power setup...
Toxicroak: Quite interesting, but also a tad slow. Thankfully, it has good offensive stats, good boosting moves for both sides of the spectrum, and good priority for both, as well. It won't be taking an Extreme Speed well at all, but Gyaradosite makes its formally terrible Mew matchup pretty wonderful. Plus, it gets 100% Mold Breaker Toxics on problematic walls. It could stand to be improved, but it can really work in the right team.
Persian: Yes, seriously. Remember when Pidgeotite Sceptile graced your doorsteps? This is faster. It also gets Sing. Alas, the rest of the Special movepool surrounding it is lackluster (Hyper Voice, Thunder, Dark Pulse, and a number of weaker coverage moves), and needs a Fake Out before it can really take on some of the faster threats. Of course, Weavile and priority in general just decimates Persian. There's also some potential for Scizorite Persian, but that's for another time...
Aggron: It's a primary Steel type with bulk. Of course I am going to slap Pinsirite on it and call it a day. No priority to speak of, but beats Zygarde (along with other grounded threats and Blissey) rather easily. Most of what I said about Metagross applies here, except it's not as good. And it still loses to Entei and Arcanine.
Yanmega: This... is an interesting one. Speed Boost makes offensive applications of Yanmega pretty easily, but there's a line of special bulk in which Yanmega simply cannot break. However, it does really good against sweepers without -ate speed... enter Sceptilite Yanmega. It is a fantastic check to Electric type sweepers, and with that Special attack boost (both naturally and with Lightning Rod) it can take on a wide swath of the frailer part of the meta, including Gengar and Thundurus. But it still loses to Weavile: no amount of speed will save you from that.
