Metagame Workshop

[CROSSOVER GEN]

The idea still doesn’t sit very well with me, but your reply is well-written enough that I know you’ve thought about this a lot and put a lot of work into coming up with it. If the meta turns out to be doable, I’ll probably try it out.

Thank you :)

What do you think of doing a test with only the first three generations or with the last three and see the result?

If the players like it, it can be a good acquisition of metagame and new analysis and discussions in the forum :)

 

[Nick2498]

Hi, this is my idea

Name: Follow the Leader (pending)

• Metagame premise: Except Lead (First teambuilder slot), teammates can learn one of the moves that the (first teambuilder slot) can learn in any form, without it having the move in the moveset. Example: First Slot Magearna, rest of team can learn any move that Magearna can learn, like Volt Switch, Moonblast, Shift Gear, but only one move per pokemon. Not necessary all pokemon of the team take one move from the lead.
• Potential Bans and Threats: OU Clauses; obviously Smeargle and Mew; to analyze: any Contrary user + any stat drop move (Like Serperior Fleur Cannon or Draco Meteor).
• Questions for the community: Would it be plausible to ban signature moves like Thousand Arrows or Fleur Cannon?

 

[Gravity Monkey]

Hi, this is my idea

Name: Follow the Leader (pending)

• Metagame premise: Except Lead (First teambuilder slot), teammates can learn one of the moves that the (first teambuilder slot) can learn in any form, without it having the move in the moveset. Example: First Slot Magearna, rest of team can learn any move that Magearna can learn, like Volt Switch, Moonblast, Shift Gear, but only one move per pokemon. Not necessary all pokemon of the team take one move from the lead.
• Potential Bans and Threats: OU Clauses; obviously Smeargle and Mew; to analyze: any Contrary user + any stat drop move (Like Serperior Fleur Cannon or Draco Meteor).
• Questions for the community: Would it be plausible to ban signature moves like Thousand Arrows or Fleur Cannon?

There's already an OM called follow the leader

 

[Nick2498]

There's already an OM called follow the leader

Uh, sorry, so... Follow The Teacher, Legacy of the First or Leader's Instructions

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Status Attack
​

Metagame premise: All status moves deal damage in addition to their standard effects. Specifically,

• The damage type will be the type of the move and will deal damage based on the appropriate attacking stat, stat changes, items, etc.
• The move will be physical if the user's Attack stat is higher than its Special Attack, and special if SpA > Atk.
  • If both are equal, it will default to Physical.
  • Abilities and stat boosts are not taken into account.
• The move's base power follows the following formula: 65 - (base PP). Note that this means base PP before PP-Ups.
  • For example, Synthesis has 5 PP, so it would be a Grass-type move with Base Power of 60.
  • All Z-Status moves will have 100 base power, regardless of the move's original bp.
• Damage is dealt only if the move hits (if applicable) and does not fail.
  • For example, Toxic will not damage a Poison-type unless the user has Corrosion.
  • For example, Swords Dance will not deal damage if the user is already at +6 Attack.
  • Ally Switch will not deal damage because it always fails in singles battles.
  • The one exception is Sleep Clause -- the target will stay awake if sleep clause is active, but damage will still be dealt. This is because Sleep Clause is a deviation from actual game mechanics.
• Damage is dealt before any of the move's other effects take place and is calculated normally (i.e. critical hits, damage calculations, and relevant abilities all function the same way they do for regular moves).

Edge cases

Edge cases are generally determined by taking these moves to be both status moves and attacks at the same time.

• The original effects of a status move do not become secondary effects of the damaging move. Thus, abilities like Sheer Force, Serene Grace, and Shield Dust do not do anything special to status moves.
• Taunt and Assault Vest both prevent the target/holder from using status moves.
• Sucker Punch will connect if the opponent uses a status move.
• If Magic Bounce reflects the move, the damaging component will also be reflected, as though the Magic Bounce user had used it. For example, if Garchomp uses Toxic on Espeon, Espeon will hit Garchomp with a 55BP special Poison move off Espeon's special attack.
• Status moves retain any properties they already had (i.e. sound, powder, pulse, bypasses Substitutes) but do not gain any new ones (i.e. contact, punch, multi-hit).

Rules:

• Singles meta with OU bans and clauses.
• Pokemon bans: None yet.
• Move bans: Every status move with priority 3 or higher is banned. Their reasonable base power in conjunction with very high priority and wide distribution, plus a few that are problematic in their own right (Snatch, Magic Coat, every Protect clone), make this the simplest way to remove those problems. Status moves with Priority 1 and 2, such as Follow Me and Ion Deluge, are still usable and will retain their heightened priority.

Potential bans and threats: While no Pokemon immediately stands out as banworthy, several stand out as powerful. Technician users can turn some of the higher-BP status moves into bona fide attacking options, while Prankster users can fire off attacks at +1 priority, so long as the opponent isn't a dark-type.

Banette @ Banettite
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Destiny Bond
- Grudge
- Shadow Claw
- Gunk Shot

Mega Banette's characteristic Prankster Destiny Bonds now have extra bite to them, forming a 60BP physical Ghost-type attack at +1 priority, off of Banette's whopping attack stat. Grudge serves as backup since Destiny Bond can't go off every turn.

Breloom @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Mach Punch
- Swords Dance
- Sunny Day

When boosted by Technician, Breloom's Spore hits 75BP; similarly, Sunny Day is a 90BP Fire-type coverage move... as long as the weather isn't already sunny.

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
- Roost
- Fly / Earthquake

An obnoxious set from late in Gen 6 returns, much less passive than the first time. While none of its status moves are boosted on their own, Dragonite adores the ability to deal damage while stalling for recovery or boosts.

Questions for the community:

• Does this sound fun to play?
• Are the mechanics consistent and understandable? I tried to be comprehensive, but I could have missed something or explained poorly.
• What should it be called? "Status Attack" is kind of dull, but I couldn't think of anything better.

1. Nature Power. How would that work?
2. Z-status moves. Does that fire off attack?
3. What if you use recover in front of a Ghost mon. Will it fail?

 

[alephgalactus]

Status Attack
​

Metagame premise: All status moves deal damage in addition to their standard effects. Specifically,

• The damage type will be the type of the move and will deal damage based on the appropriate attacking stat, stat changes, items, etc.
• The move will be physical if the user's Attack stat is higher than its Special Attack, and special if SpA > Atk.
  • If both are equal, it will default to Physical.
  • Abilities and stat boosts are not taken into account.
• The move's base power follows the following formula: 65 - (base PP). Note that this means base PP before PP-Ups.
  • For example, Synthesis has 5 PP, so it would be a Grass-type move with Base Power of 60.
  • All Z-Status moves will have 100 base power, regardless of the move's original bp.
• Damage is dealt only if the move hits (if applicable) and does not fail.
  • For example, Toxic will not damage a Poison-type unless the user has Corrosion.
  • For example, Swords Dance will not deal damage if the user is already at +6 Attack.
  • Ally Switch will not deal damage because it always fails in singles battles.
  • The one exception is Sleep Clause -- the target will stay awake if sleep clause is active, but damage will still be dealt. This is because Sleep Clause is a deviation from actual game mechanics.
• Damage is dealt before any of the move's other effects take place and is calculated normally (i.e. critical hits, damage calculations, and relevant abilities all function the same way they do for regular moves).

Edge cases

Edge cases are generally determined by taking these moves to be both status moves and attacks at the same time.

• The original effects of a status move do not become secondary effects of the damaging move. Thus, abilities like Sheer Force, Serene Grace, and Shield Dust do not do anything special to status moves.
• Taunt and Assault Vest both prevent the target/holder from using status moves.
• Sucker Punch will connect if the opponent uses a status move.
• If Magic Bounce reflects the move, the damaging component will also be reflected, as though the Magic Bounce user had used it. For example, if Garchomp uses Toxic on Espeon, Espeon will hit Garchomp with a 55BP special Poison move off Espeon's special attack.
• Status moves retain any properties they already had (i.e. sound, powder, pulse, bypasses Substitutes) but do not gain any new ones (i.e. contact, punch, multi-hit).

Rules:

• Singles meta with OU bans and clauses.
• Pokemon bans: None yet.
• Move bans: Every status move with priority 3 or higher is banned. Their reasonable base power in conjunction with very high priority and wide distribution, plus a few that are problematic in their own right (Snatch, Magic Coat, every Protect clone), make this the simplest way to remove those problems. Status moves with Priority 1 and 2, such as Follow Me and Ion Deluge, are still usable and will retain their heightened priority.

Potential bans and threats: While no Pokemon immediately stands out as banworthy, several stand out as powerful. Technician users can turn some of the higher-BP status moves into bona fide attacking options, while Prankster users can fire off attacks at +1 priority, so long as the opponent isn't a dark-type.

Banette @ Banettite
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Destiny Bond
- Grudge
- Shadow Claw
- Gunk Shot

Mega Banette's characteristic Prankster Destiny Bonds now have extra bite to them, forming a 60BP physical Ghost-type attack at +1 priority, off of Banette's whopping attack stat. Grudge serves as backup since Destiny Bond can't go off every turn.

Breloom @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Mach Punch
- Swords Dance
- Sunny Day

When boosted by Technician, Breloom's Spore hits 75BP; similarly, Sunny Day is a 90BP Fire-type coverage move... as long as the weather isn't already sunny.

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
- Roost
- Fly / Earthquake

An obnoxious set from late in Gen 6 returns, much less passive than the first time. While none of its status moves are boosted on their own, Dragonite adores the ability to deal damage while stalling for recovery or boosts.

Questions for the community:

• Does this sound fun to play?
• Are the mechanics consistent and understandable? I tried to be comprehensive, but I could have missed something or explained poorly.
• What should it be called? "Status Attack" is kind of dull, but I couldn't think of anything better.

I can see Comfey being a dominant force in this meta.

 

[Akumeoy]

1. Nature Power. How would that work?
2. Z-status moves. Does that fire off attack?
3. What if you use recover in front of a Ghost mon. Will it fail?

1. It would fire off a 45BP Normal-type move off the user's higher attacking stat, and then Nature Power's standard effect would occur, changing it into a different move depending on the terrain. I'll mention that in the errata and maybe drop in a set for it, since that's fairly strong.
2. Yes. As stated, those are 100BP.
3. No. Damage won't be dealt, but the move will still work. I'll clarify this in the rules.

 

[alephgalactus]

Status Wars
Metagame's premise: Basically, only status moves are allowed

Potential bans and threats: Taunt, substitute, magic guard, and bounce, I think moves like magic coat and safeguard will have to be banned

Questions for the community: Is There anything else that is desperately in need of a ban?

Another question: Are status moves that call attacks (like Nature Power and Metronome) allowed? If so, Tapu Koko and Tapu Lele should definitely be looked at with suspicion, since they can both use Nature Power to fire off powerful terrain-boosted STAB. Lele in particular, with her base 130 Special Attack and in a meta where people probably won't bother with defensive investment, is going to be problematic.

Also, will Baton Pass be unbanned for this meta?

 

[Yoavgreninja]

Status Wars
Metagame's premise: Basically, only status moves are allowed

Potential bans and threats: Taunt, substitute, magic guard, and bounce, I think moves like magic coat and safeguard will have to be banned

Questions for the community: Is There anything else that is desperately in need of a ban?

This meta already existed in Generation 6 under the name "Pacifist Mons" https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pacifistmons.3501123/

 

[CROSSOVER GEN]

Name: UBER in OU

• Metagame premise: UBER Pokémon in OU metagame with the condition that they are at level 90.
• Potential Bans and Threats: Nothing
• Questions for the community: Allow UBERs to use items also to balance more or just level downgrade?

 

[alephgalactus]

Name: UBER in OU

• Metagame premise: UBER Pokémon in OU metagame with the condition that they are at level 90.
• Potential Bans and Threats: Nothing
• Questions for the community: Allow UBERs to use items also to balance more or just level downgrade?

Ok now this is a meta I could see working. Matter of fact, I absolutely love the idea.

 

[CROSSOVER GEN]

Ok now this is a meta I could see working. Matter of fact, I absolutely love the idea.

This metagame can be applied in all generations.

Should UBER Pokémon use items in this metagame or not?

 

[alephgalactus]

This metagame can be applied in all generations.

Should UBER Pokémon use items in this metagame or not?

They should be allowed to hold items. Considering that a 10-level drop is a very significant nerf. For example, Giratina’s 150/100/120/100/120/90 base stats (with standard Ubers Defog support EV spread) become equivalent to 125/88/103.5/88/105.5/79.5, which is still very bulky but far less so than before. Deoxys-Attack’s base 180 attacking stats become a more manageable 157 or less, and (more importantly) it can only speed-tie Tapu Koko at full investment, meaning it and Pheromosa are outsped by Ash-Greninja, Mega Beedrill, Mega Alakazam, Mega Lopunny, Mega Manectric, Scarf Heatran, Shift Gear Magearna and a host of other things that couldn’t hope to beat them before but now destroy them handily. Just the level drop is fine.

 

[CROSSOVER GEN]

They should be allowed to hold items. Considering that a 10-level drop is a very significant nerf. For example, Giratina’s 150/100/120/100/120/90 base stats (with standard Ubers Defog support EV spread) become equivalent to 125/88/103.5/88/105.5/79.5, which is still very bulky but far less so than before. Deoxys-Attack’s base 180 attacking stats become a more manageable 157 or less, and (more importantly) it can only speed-tie Tapu Koko at full investment, meaning it and Pheromosa are outsped by Ash-Greninja, Mega Beedrill, Mega Alakazam, Mega Lopunny, Mega Manectric, Scarf Heatran, Shift Gear Magearna and a host of other things that couldn’t hope to beat them before but now destroy them handily. Just the level drop is fine.

You're right, the nerf is enough.

When will this idea be implemented?

 

[SadisticMystic]

Other than speed, level differences manifest quadratically (on the offense, both level and attack stat appear in the damage formula; and on defense, level scales up both HP and the defense stat). That means that level 90 is only 81% as strong as the same species would be at 100, and while the math isn't entirely accurate this way, imagining that you're scaling down a 680 BST to 81% leaves you with an eminently reasonable 550 total. (In truth the stats are still only being scaled to 90%, but the 81% figure merely represents the way they effectively play when you factor in the level disadvantage as well.)

 

[DrPumpkinz]

You're right, the nerf is enough.

When will this idea be implemented?

You'll first need to submit your metagame here. The rules for submitting a metagame can be found here. The process can take a while, but with any luck, we'll be able to play Uber in OU (OUber?) soon.

 

[CROSSOVER GEN]

You'll first need to submit your metagame here. The rules for submitting a metagame can be found here. The process can take a while, but with any luck, we'll be able to play Uber in OU (OUber?) soon.

"– You need to have at least 20 posts in the Other Metagames forum or its subforums before you can submit. Use that time to become familiar with our community!"

Could someone put the OUber Metagame (nice name) idea there?

 

[ESN 64]

10-sided and 20-sided dice are also a thing, so adding more effects is an option. Perhaps it could be weighted towards less harsh things, so things like losing a Pokémon outright or having all of your Pokémon devolved are rare occurrences.



Hmm. Although I like the idea, metas that involve complex bans almost never succeed. I’m pretty sure (and you can correct me if I’m wrong) that the MnM UU meta follows the same tiering policy as the actual OU/UU tiering policy, which is entirely based around just getting rid of the Pokémon with top usage.




Also, I thought of another thing that Bad n’ Boosted will have to deal with, if only as a meme.

Blissey has base 110 Speed, Serene Grace, and access to Double Slap, which it can combine with King’s Rock.

G E T R E A D Y T O F L I N C H

Well it wouldnt be fun if it weren't cruel haha

 

[Author_Pendragon]

Here's my idea:

Mirror Magic

Metagame premise:
All damage from anything but direct attacks heals you, and all healing now damages you. In addition, attacks that deal a specific amount of damage (such as Seismic Toss) now heal the target. This does not apply to struggle because of the endless battle clause.

Bans:

• Normal OU Bans and Rules
• All moves that KO the user (Explosion/Self Destruct, Memento, Lunar Dance/Healing wish).
• Belly Drum.
• Heal Pulse/Floral Healing
• Due to the opinions of others, Toxic Orb is now subject to a likely ban

Unbans:

• Mega Kangaskhan: Not only is Seismic Toss nerfed, but Mega Pokemon cannot hold the vital toxic orb. Mega Kang is still very strong, but still evenly matched with the power of Stall
• Darkrai: Not only is this pokemon healing enemies when he puts them to sleep, the fact that almost everything wants to run a Burn or Toxic Orb means that Darkrai isn’t anywhere near Ubers material

Potential bans and threats:

• Toxic Orbs become the number one healing item, resulting in an immunity to paralysis and a large amount of health restored every turn
• Substitute is extremely powerful and is the first potential ban. It grants a substitute and restores 25% of your health, which makes it a better Recover.
• Recoil Moves are the new drain moves, making Flare Blitz and Brave Bird users extremely powerful. Life Orb Talonflame has priority on a more powerful Brave Bird with no downsides. Head Smash is also made much more powerful
• Pokemon who can ignore or break subs are very useful in this metagame. Multi Hit moves are decent, Sound based moves are better, and Hoopa Unbound’s Hyperspace Fury makes it the best Wallbreaker in the game.
• Solar Power is useful for Setup Sweepers, healing the user and increasing power in a weather that doesn't benefit the opponent.
• As powerful as poisoned walls can be, there is little left to damage your enemies with other than attacks. Tricking Leftovers and Grassy Terrain are some of the few ways to do this. However, they are still quite weak.
• Although difficult to set up, Mega Diancie and Xatu have access to Skill Swap and Magic Bounce. If properly set up, you can trap and enemy and give yourself Hazards such as toxic spikes.

Questions for the community:
Does this Metagame seem interesting to you guys? I think I had a good idea, but the entire Metagame could be repetitive.

(Edit: I'm banning heal Pulse. There's nothing that can switch into Comfey and live except Lele/Bruxish/Tsareena thanks to their abilities)

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Here's my idea:

Mirror Magic

Metagame premise:
All damage from anything but direct attacks heals you, and all healing now damages you. In addition, attacks that deal a specific amount of damage (such as Seismic Toss) now heal the target. This does not apply to struggle because of the endless battle clause.

Bans:

• Normal OU Bans and Rules
• All moves that KO the user (Explosion/Self Destruct, Memento, Lunar Dance/Healing wish).
• Belly Drum.

Potential bans and threats:

• Toxic Orbs become the number one healing item, resulting in an immunity to paralysis and a large amount of health restored every turn
• Substitute is extremely powerful and is the first potential ban. It grants a substitute and restores 25% of your health, which makes it a better Recover.
• Recoil Moves are the new drain moves, making Flare Blitz and Brave Bird users extremely powerful. Life Orb Talonflame has priority on a more powerful Brave Bird with no downsides. Head Smash is also made much more powerful
• Pokemon who can ignore or break subs are very useful in this metagame. Multi Hit moves are decent, Sound based moves are better, and Hoopa Unbound’s Hyperspace Fury makes it the best Wallbreaker in the game.
• Solar Power is useful for Setup Sweepers, healing the user and increasing power in a weather that doesn't benefit the opponent.
• Heal Pulse is one of the most consistent damage sources, 2HKOing anything and everything. Comfey has lots of use as Triage grants priority. Meanwhile, Clawitzer does 75% of a does health.
• As powerful as poisoned walls can be, there is little left to damage your enemies with other than attacks. Tricking Leftovers and Grassy Terrain are some of the few ways to do this. However, they are still quite weak.

Questions for the community:
Does this Metagame seem interesting to you guys? I think I had a good idea, but the entire Metagame could be repetitive.

Heal Pulse and Floral Healing should definitely be banned. The power to 2HKO literally everything is just too much.

If set-damage moves like Seismic Toss heal the opponent, Mega Kang could be unbanned, as the main reason it remained banned after the Parental Bond nerf was its 200 damage Toss.

 

[Author_Pendragon]

Heal Pulse and Floral Healing should definitely be banned. The power to 2HKO literally everything is just too much.

If set-damage moves like Seismic Toss heal the opponent, Mega Kang could be unbanned, as the main reason it remained banned after the Parental Bond nerf was its 200 damage Toss.

Ah. I see what you are talking about with Kang (and ninja'd, I edited the post to ban Floral Healing and Heal Pulse a couple minutes ago)

 

[Pikachuun]

Potential bans and threats:

• Toxic Orbs become the number one healing item, resulting in an immunity to paralysis and a large amount of health restored every turn

honestly i think that toxic orb should be flat-out banned from the start otherwise the amount of snowballing that will occur with substitute + protect becomes absolutely ridiculous, if you don't have whirlwind, taunt, or some niche strat (lum + trick, purify which now damages you) you just get pp stalled until the healing gets to the point that you're forced to either ohko or click the x button (struggle's self-damage WILL get invalidated by poison's healing after enough turns anyway)
friendly reminder that toxic orb's extreme splashability means that it can be placed on unaware mons to even invalidate setup as an option, oblivious to block taunt, or just a fast taunter to block you from doing either of those things yourself (or even magic coat if you want a more niche option)

 

[hiei-q]

As

Here's my idea:

Mirror Magic

Metagame premise:
All damage from anything but direct attacks heals you, and all healing now damages you. In addition, attacks that deal a specific amount of damage (such as Seismic Toss) now heal the target. This does not apply to struggle because of the endless battle clause.

Bans:

• Normal OU Bans and Rules
• All moves that KO the user (Explosion/Self Destruct, Memento, Lunar Dance/Healing wish).
• Belly Drum.
• Heal Pulse/Floral Healing

Unbans:

• Mega Kangaskhan

Potential bans and threats:

• Toxic Orbs become the number one healing item, resulting in an immunity to paralysis and a large amount of health restored every turn
• Substitute is extremely powerful and is the first potential ban. It grants a substitute and restores 25% of your health, which makes it a better Recover.
• Recoil Moves are the new drain moves, making Flare Blitz and Brave Bird users extremely powerful. Life Orb Talonflame has priority on a more powerful Brave Bird with no downsides. Head Smash is also made much more powerful
• Pokemon who can ignore or break subs are very useful in this metagame. Multi Hit moves are decent, Sound based moves are better, and Hoopa Unbound’s Hyperspace Fury makes it the best Wallbreaker in the game.
• Solar Power is useful for Setup Sweepers, healing the user and increasing power in a weather that doesn't benefit the opponent.
• As powerful as poisoned walls can be, there is little left to damage your enemies with other than attacks. Tricking Leftovers and Grassy Terrain are some of the few ways to do this. However, they are still quite weak.

Questions for the community:
Does this Metagame seem interesting to you guys? I think I had a good idea, but the entire Metagame could be repetitive.

(Edit: I'm banning heal Pulse. There's nothing that can switch into Comfey and live except Lele/Bruxish/Tsareena thanks to their abilities)

Here's my idea:

Mirror Magic

Metagame premise:
All damage from anything but direct attacks heals you, and all healing now damages you. In addition, attacks that deal a specific amount of damage (such as Seismic Toss) now heal the target. This does not apply to struggle because of the endless battle clause.

Bans:

• Normal OU Bans and Rules
• All moves that KO the user (Explosion/Self Destruct, Memento, Lunar Dance/Healing wish).
• Belly Drum.
• Heal Pulse/Floral Healing

Unbans:

• Mega Kangaskhan

Potential bans and threats:

• Toxic Orbs become the number one healing item, resulting in an immunity to paralysis and a large amount of health restored every turn
• Substitute is extremely powerful and is the first potential ban. It grants a substitute and restores 25% of your health, which makes it a better Recover.
• Recoil Moves are the new drain moves, making Flare Blitz and Brave Bird users extremely powerful. Life Orb Talonflame has priority on a more powerful Brave Bird with no downsides. Head Smash is also made much more powerful
• Pokemon who can ignore or break subs are very useful in this metagame. Multi Hit moves are decent, Sound based moves are better, and Hoopa Unbound’s Hyperspace Fury makes it the best Wallbreaker in the game.
• Solar Power is useful for Setup Sweepers, healing the user and increasing power in a weather that doesn't benefit the opponent.
• As powerful as poisoned walls can be, there is little left to damage your enemies with other than attacks. Tricking Leftovers and Grassy Terrain are some of the few ways to do this. However, they are still quite weak.

Questions for the community:
Does this Metagame seem interesting to you guys? I think I had a good idea, but the entire Metagame could be repetitive.

(Edit: I'm banning heal Pulse. There's nothing that can switch into Comfey and live except Lele/Bruxish/Tsareena thanks to their abilities)

As pointed above. Toxic orb needs to be banned. I would also ban substitue since it seems overcentralizing and really difficult to counter.

I woudn't unban kanga, he is still a beast with a free swords dance in power up punch, a free choice band in parental bond and healing double edge.
Flame orb seems like a cool item: leftovers recovery + immunity to status (good on special attackers or guts mons). You should revise other items like black sludge, if anything heal more than 1/8th of the hp it might became a little bit op. Maybe an item clause can be applied. Tricking berries is also a cool meme.

Talonflame looks even better than its gen 6 counterpart: he can heal from its brave birds/flare blitzes and remain at full hp.

I dont know if diancie gets skill swap (i am on mobile), but if he could then you can meme with him by trapping something, mega evolve and swap abilities and bounce rocks so they heal your talonflame /zard (all 3 zards are quite powerfull btw, solar power, hazzardless drought and flare blitz X).

Also, tapu bulu looks deadly with graisy terrain removing hp and he recovering with freaking wood hammer.

I like the idea but i would just sumarize ut as: "every passive damage and healing effect gets inverted". Removing (or drastically nerfing) seismic toss from the game will just make worse some pokemon, i think that mechanic is unnecesary and can be removed to simplify the premise. With this modification moves like substitute and belly drum will work as they usually do in a normal metagame.

Also, how will regenerator and magic guard work?

 

[Author_Pendragon]

As

As pointed above. Toxic orb needs to be banned. I would also ban substitue since it seems overcentralizing and really difficult to counter.

I woudn't unban kanga, he is still a beast with a free swords dance in power up punch, a free choice band in parental bond and healing double edge.
Flame orb seems like a cool item: leftovers recovery + immunity to status (good on special attackers or guts mons). You should revise other items like black sludge, if anything heal more than 1/8th of the hp it might became a little bit op. Maybe an item clause can be applied. Tricking berries is also a cool meme.

Talonflame looks even better than its gen 6 counterpart: he can heal from its brave birds/flare blitzes and remain at full hp.

I dont know if diancie gets skill swap (i am on mobile), but if he could then you can meme with him by trapping something, mega evolve and swap abilities and bounce rocks so they heal your talonflame /zard (all 3 zards are quite powerfull btw, solar power, hazzardless drought and flare blitz X).

Also, tapu bulu looks deadly with graisy terrain removing hp and he recovering with freaking wood hammer.

I like the idea but i would just sumarize ut as: "every passive damage and healing effect gets inverted". Removing (or drastically nerfing) seismic toss from the game will just make worse some pokemon, i think that mechanic is unnecesary and can be removed to simplify the premise. With this modification moves like substitute and belly drum will work as they usually do in a normal metagame.

Also, how will regenerator and magic guard work?

Regenerator removes 33% of your health. Magic guard prevents the effects of Grassy Terrain/Leftovers, etc.
Kang is honestly necessary as a wallbreaker, which as you said yourself, is necessary to defeat the power of the walls in the tier.

 

[Yoshiblaze]

Here's my idea:

Mirror Magic

Metagame premise:
All damage from anything but direct attacks heals you, and all healing now damages you. In addition, attacks that deal a specific amount of damage (such as Seismic Toss) now heal the target. This does not apply to struggle because of the endless battle clause.

Bans:

• Normal OU Bans and Rules
• All moves that KO the user (Explosion/Self Destruct, Memento, Lunar Dance/Healing wish).
• Belly Drum.
• Heal Pulse/Floral Healing

Unbans:

• Mega Kangaskhan

Potential bans and threats:

• Toxic Orbs become the number one healing item, resulting in an immunity to paralysis and a large amount of health restored every turn
• Substitute is extremely powerful and is the first potential ban. It grants a substitute and restores 25% of your health, which makes it a better Recover.
• Recoil Moves are the new drain moves, making Flare Blitz and Brave Bird users extremely powerful. Life Orb Talonflame has priority on a more powerful Brave Bird with no downsides. Head Smash is also made much more powerful
• Pokemon who can ignore or break subs are very useful in this metagame. Multi Hit moves are decent, Sound based moves are better, and Hoopa Unbound’s Hyperspace Fury makes it the best Wallbreaker in the game.
• Solar Power is useful for Setup Sweepers, healing the user and increasing power in a weather that doesn't benefit the opponent.
• As powerful as poisoned walls can be, there is little left to damage your enemies with other than attacks. Tricking Leftovers and Grassy Terrain are some of the few ways to do this. However, they are still quite weak.

Questions for the community:
Does this Metagame seem interesting to you guys? I think I had a good idea, but the entire Metagame could be repetitive.

(Edit: I'm banning heal Pulse. There's nothing that can switch into Comfey and live except Lele/Bruxish/Tsareena thanks to their abilities)

How hazards work? If they heal you (which I assume they do) that means that only Sticky Web is useful, lest you heal your oppenent's Talonflame with Stealth Rock