Mawile HO (peaked 1876, #36 on ladder)

[rachet67]

Hey, this is rachet67 with an HO team. I'm not really trying to showcase this team, as its pretty standard, but was looking for suggestions so I can hopefully break into the 1900's, as I've been hovering around the 1850-1880 mark for a while.

Ladder screenshot: http://snag.gy/jhTkV.jpg

I'm going to put each mon into rough categories of what their job is on the team, but keep in mind that this is only their main goal, and they can perform other roles as well. Without further ado, here's the team:

Hazard-Setter:

Deoxys-Defense @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave

Deoxys-D is pretty standard on HO teams, especially those with Bisharp, as it is one of the most reliable hazard setters in the meta. I run taunt to avoid being set up on by other hazard setters and set up sweepers, and as a last resort, to force Aeigislash to stay in its blade form so Bisharp can come in and pursuit it. If it does stick around until the later game, Deoxys-D’s excellent bulk, combined with thunder wave, make it a great disposable check for set up sweepers. Rocky Helmet is used over red card primarily to deal extra recoil damage from Talonflame’s brave bird and flare blitz, as both Bisharp and Mawile need some prior damage to KO’ with sucker punch, and nothing else on the team enjoys Talonflame’s presence.

Wall Breaking Core:

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 0 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump
- Surf/Scald
- Hidden Power [Flying]/ Hidden Power [Electric]

As part of the Bisharp/Keldeo/Landorus-I core, Keldeo can break down many bulky ground types that would otherwise bother this team. Specs Keldeo provides immense offensive pressure, and unlike Landorus-I or Bisharp, has the typing and bulk to be able to comfortably switch into weak and resisted moves. It hits a similar range of targets as Landorus-I, which is good overall, as they can overwhelm common defensive cores on stall teams. I run surf because I really hate missing with hydro pump. I'm considering running scald over surf, but I do like getting all the power I can get out of specs Keldeo, and I've found that the 30% burn rate isn't always worth the slight decrease in power. HP flying is to 2HKO Venusaur on the switch in before it Mega Evolves, and to deal with weakened Mega-Venusaur.

Bisharp (M) @ Black Glasses
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch

Bisharp is the utility mon of the Bisharp/Keldeo/Landorus core, and is really just the utility mon of the team. In the core with Keldeo and Landorus, Bisharp can pursuit trap Latios and Latias, both pokemon that prevent either from doing their jobs. It also can take a chunk of health off of Chansey on the switch out, in order to ensure that Chansey is 2HKO’d by Landorus-I’s focus blast on the next switch in. It also forms the second partner of the famous DeoSharp Core, as it can easily switch in to predicted defogs from Mandibuzz and Latias, in order to gain +2 attack. Finally, Bisharp can serve as a revenge killer for weakened Sweepers, with stab sucker punch. Together with Mawile, I rarely have a problem with set up sweepers other than substitute Mega-Gyrados. I've been thinking about using Life Orb over Black Glasses, but Bisharp can't take a lot of abuse as it is, and using LO often pushes it into OHKO range by even weak special moves.

Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Hidden Power [Ice]/Calm Mind
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Focus Blast

Landorus-I forms the third component of the Keldeo/Bisharp/Landorus core. Landorus-I is literally the best wall breaker in the game at the moment, and with the help of Bisharp’s pursuit, can even get past Chansey and Latias. Landorus’ earth power is one of the few things that can OHKO all Aeigslash variants and doesn’t have to worry about weakness policy. Focus Blast is to hit common switch-ins such as Skarmory hard and is its best answer to Rotom-W. Psychic is solely for Mega-Venusaur, who can otherwise prove a big threat to this team, as Landorus is the only thing that can 2HKO SpD variants 100% of the time. HP Ice has proven useful against Mega-Garchomp, Landorus-T, and occasionally Dragonite, but has otherwise proven itself to be the least useful move on Landorus. I’m considering replacing it with U-turn to hit incoming Latias for decent damage or Sludge Wave for Azumarill.

I tried rock polish and found that it was difficult to set up against offense (which has powerful priority users such as Talonflame) and that it didn't do much against stall. I'm going to try Calm mind at the suggestion of cuteflounder, as this is great against stall and Mega-Venusaur, and has more utility than HP Ice.

I'll also see how Sludge Wave works over Focus Blast.


Pseudo-Revenge Killer/ Paralysis Support:

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Thunder Wave

Thundurus-I is pretty much what keeps me from getting swept by almost all sweepers, and is one of the most invaluable mons on the team, even if it often ends up as thunder wave fodder. Its also the teams best answer to Gyarados. Psychic is to 2HKO incoming SpD Venusaur, a common switch in, though it needs stealth rock to ensure the 2HKO. I’ve been thinking about running HP ice over psychic so I can drop it on Landorus, but Psychic has proved useful multiple times. I’m still open to changing it though. Focus blast is to 2HKO Ferrothorn and Excadrill, who would otherwise wall this set.

Set Up Sweeper/Bulky Pivot:

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Fire Fang

Definitely my favorite mon on the team, Mawile can find so many opportunities to set up, with its great bulk and typing, and a great initial ability in intimidate. Because of its natural bulk, and the fact that it can still hit insanely hard, even before a swords dance, it can also serve as a great bulky pivot that can wreck teams without dedicated physical walls. Sucker punch both allows it to serve as a last minute revenge killer after Thundurus and Bisharp, and also prevents it from easily being revenge killed itself after setting up a swords dance. Fire fang is to get past Skarmory, Ferrothron, and (through a combination of of it and sucker punch) Aegislash.

The teams not perfect, as I’m far from a perfectionist, and can make mistakes and oversights when teambuilding. I’ll take suggestions for any change, as long as they sound reasonable.


Importable:

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Bisharp (M) @ Black Glasses
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 0 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Flying]

Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Focus Blast

Deoxys-Defense @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Fire Fang

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Thunder Wave

 

[ItoI6]

I think you should definitely consider Knock Off>HP Ice on Landorus which lets it handily beat both Latias as well as cripple Chansey. If you make this change, I think you can afford not to run pursuit on Bisharp, and can run either Grass Knot or Taunt to defeat Quagsire who can force you out after getting a defiant boost. On the ladder having a taunt on Bisharp is an excellent surprise move that almost always nets a win versus baton pass, and you should pretty much auto-win considering how much pressure the rest of your team puts out. I also think 52 hp EVs is pretty dubious and honestly I would rather just be able to go for a speed tie win with max speed against opposing Bisharp. I think SD Mawile also runs some speed to beat slow threats but well though I can't remember too well since it's been a long time since I've used it. It might be that having more HP is just more helpful in the metagame idk. Also running 0 att IVs on Thundurus means you never get 2hkoed by stab foul play

Pretty solid team overall

 

[rachet67]

I think you should definitely consider Knock Off>HP Ice on Landorus which lets it handily beat both Latias as well as cripple Chansey. If you make this change, I think you can afford not to run pursuit on Bisharp, and can run either Grass Knot or Taunt to defeat Quagsire who can force you out after getting a defiant boost. On the ladder having a taunt on Bisharp is an excellent surprise move that almost always nets a win versus baton pass, and you should pretty much auto-win considering how much pressure the rest of your team puts out. I also think 52 hp EVs is pretty dubious and honestly I would rather just be able to go for a speed tie win with max speed against opposing Bisharp. I think SD Mawile also runs some speed to beat slow threats but well though I can't remember too well since it's been a long time since I've used it. It might be that having more HP is just more helpful in the metagame idk. Also running 0 att IVs on Thundurus means you never get 2hkoed by stab foul play

Pretty solid team overall

I'll definitely try knock off over HP ice, and see how that works compared to U-turn. I really don't want to get rid of pursuit though, as Latias and Latios can wall both Landorus and Keldeo, and Mawile can only switch in to them so many times. The team also doesn't like to repeatedly take shadow balls from Aegislash either, and with Deoxys-D's taunt and Bisharp pursuit, I can pretty much guarantee its elimination. I haven't had much of a problem with Quagsire, and I'm more than happy to just KO the Latias on the switch out, and then just switch to Keldeo or Deoxys-D for Quagsire. Honestly sweeping with +2 Bisharp is more of a cool bonus than something I aim for consistently. I don't really need to run taunt for BP teams, as I can beat them for the most part without too much difficulty as it is.

On Bisharp I know I only needed 204 speed to beat some threat, but I forgot what it was. I personally like having some bulk to be able to switch into a draco meteor from Latias, but I'm honestly not sure what 52 HP EVs is going to do. If I can't remember my reasoning for 204 Speed, I'll just put the speed EVs at max again. I don't actually want to keep my Bisharp on any opposing Bisharp, as I can't do anything to them, while they can potentially low kick back. Mawile serves as a pretty good switch in to opposing Bisharp.

I don't run any speed EVs on Mawile, because it has a pathetic speed in the first place, and needs lots of investment to even catch up to Rotom-W and Venusaur, pretty much the only defensive mons it wants to out-speed. This also undermines its ability to switch into a variety of threats such as Bisharp and function as a bulky pivot.

Don't know why I had the wierd IVs on Thundurus, I think they were leftovers from when I was running HP ice on it.

 

[Star]

This team is really solid. The only thing I can think of is HP Flying on Thundurus > Psychic. It does the same damage after STAB and hits a couple things harder like Chesnaught and Breloom if it ends up mattering.

 

[xJownage]

Very solid team but yeah hp flying over psychic on thundurus. Same base power with psychic only se on poison and fighting which really doesnt help you. I love special thundurus but i like the physical therian better. Personal preference. Also on showdown you can still use max ivs even if you have an hp that would normally change it. No reason to have all 30s on landy, thundy, or keldeo

i think a landorus t physical variant would work better for this team. You can run edgequake and have two good coverage moves on its massive 145 base attack. Preference though, try it on a alt showdown acc and see how it does in comparison.

Fire fang feels bad on mawile idk why but it does. If you could subSD on that thing though it would be great just take out its counters and watch it sweep.

Hp fire>flying on keldeo. It shouldnt try to cover venu as it will just get ohkod by giga drain and all its damage done will be put right back on venu anyways.

 

[shunterthegreat]

Team looks great, just one minor suggestion of Scald > Surf. Scald helps wear down repeated switchins such as Mega Venusaur with a burn. You're not going to miss the power much because if you need power, you'll go for Hydro Pump anyways.

 

[rachet67]

Using my bump.

Hey Shurtugal you look like your good and like you're good at rating teams *cough, cough* Honestly, I would really appreciate someone who is good at laddering taking a look at this team and you did a nice job on Darkerones rmt.

 

[rdjacobian]

Quick rate since on phone:
The team looks pretty standard, but there's a few things that are prolly worth mentioning.

Honestly, rocky helmet on deo-d is kinda weird. You can always say "If it isn't broke, don't fix it," but if someone knows your set and has a sub + stat booster sweeper you could be in for trouble.

You should run 2 atk ivs on keldeo since you get 70 base power hidden power flying instead of 68. Additionally you can use hp electric to catch azumarill by surprise which is otherwise annoying. I say this since hp flying on Kelsey is less powerful than hp flying from thundurus and does not usually 2hko mvenu.

Landorus should have rock polish over psychic. Fully specially defensive mega venu isnt all that common but m-mawile helps break it down and after rocks thundurus 2hkos with hidden power flying.

Bisharp is alright if you could explain the evs that would help.

Run hp flying > psychic on thundurus. it gives better coverage.
Also superpower screws with blobs more than focus miss but it forces you to run atk evs.

Mawile probably could run a better ev spread. I'd recommend looking over the mawile analysis.

 

[rachet67]

Quick rate since on phone:
The team looks pretty standard, but there's a few things that are prolly worth mentioning.

Honestly, rocky helmet on deo-d is kinda weird. You can always say "If it isn't broke, don't fix it," but if someone knows your set and has a sub + stat booster sweeper you could be in for trouble.

You should run 2 atk ivs on keldeo since you get 70 base power hidden power flying instead of 68. Additionally you can use hp electric to catch azumarill by surprise which is otherwise annoying. I say this since hp flying on Kelsey is less powerful than hp flying from thundurus and does not usually 2hko mvenu.

Landorus should have rock polish over psychic. Fully specially defensive mega venu isnt all that common but m-mawile helps break it down and after rocks thundurus 2hkos with hidden power flying.

Bisharp is alright if you could explain the evs that would help.

Run hp flying > psychic on thundurus. it gives better coverage.
Also superpower screws with blobs more than focus miss but it forces you to run atk evs.

Mawile probably could run a better ev spread. I'd recommend looking over the mawile analysis.

I'm really reluctant to get rid of rocky helmet as its my best suicide answer to Talonflame, which otherwise bothers this team quite a bit. Red card is one time use, and often forces you to switch out when you don't want to. I understand its use, but I'm not a huge fan of it.

Ivs don't effect the power of Hidden Power anymore, all Hidden powers are 60 BP. I might decide to test HP electric on Keldeo if I decide to keep scald, as HP flying doesn't do that much.

Landorus is my only answer to fully SpD Venusaur, as no other move on the team can 2HKO it. Psychic not only is good for hitting Venusaur hard, but is also extremely useful for getting a little bit of damage on certain switch ins such as Talonflame. Thundurus cannot 2HKO with psychic in most circumstances. I like psychic over HP flying as it has nearly identical coverage considering the most common grass types in OU are Venusaur, Breloom, and Chesnaught, and has a useful side effect.

204 speed on Bisharp out-speeds uninvested base 95, but there aren't a lot of notable pokemon in this category. I'm actually thinking of lowering its speed a little more, as its not using that speed for the most part, and the extra bulk certainly helps.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm just not listening to anything you say, I just considered many of these changes myself, and even ran a few while making the team, and none of them really made my team much better overall.

 

[rdjacobian]

I'm really reluctant to get rid of rock head as its my best suicide answer to Talonflame, which otherwise bothers this team quite a bit. Red card is one time use, and often forces you to switch out when you don't want to. I understand its use, but I'm not a huge fan of it.

Ivs don't effect the power of Hidden Power anymore, all Hidden powers are 60 BP. I might decide to test HP electric on Keldeo if I decide to keep scald, as HP flying doesn't do that much.

Landorus is my only answer to fully SpD Venusaur, as no other move on the team can 2HKO it. Psychic not only is good for hitting Venusaur hard, but is also extremely useful for getting a little bit of damage on certain switch ins such as Talonflame. Thundurus cannot 2HKO with psychic in most circumstances. I like psychic over HP flying as it has nearly identical coverage considering the most common grass types in OU are Venusaur, Breloom, and Chesnaught, and has a useful side effect.

204 speed on Bisharp out-speeds uninvested base 95, but there aren't a lot of notable pokemon in this category. I'm actually thinking of lowering its speed a little more, as its not using that speed for the most part, and the extra bulk certainly helps.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm just not listening to anything you say, I just considered many of these changes myself, and even ran a few while making the team, and none of them really made my team much better overall.

Back on a laptop, so I guess I'll give a bit more thorough of a rate now.

Like I said, if the rocky helmet's working for you, then by all means leave it. Just be aware that sub dd'rs might dunk on you.

Brainfarted on hp bp nerf this gen, but I wasn't aware that it was independent of ivs.

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Flying vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Venusaur: 159-190 (43.6 - 52.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 232-273 (63.7 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Venusaur: 144-172 (39.5 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

Assuming you play well and keep hazards up, you shouldn't be having any problems with max spdef mega venu (which isn't all that popular afaik).

hp flying vs psychic: They both hit for the same amount of damage, except you hit a few more things neutrally with hp flying as opposed to psychic (eg eon twins). I've never really found spdef drops reliable and therefore helpful.

For what it's worth, bisharp can run 176 spe evs to creep 4spe lando-t.

Anyway, hopefully this helped in one way or another.

 

[rachet67]

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Flying vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Venusaur: 159-190 (43.6 - 52.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 232-273 (63.7 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Venusaur: 144-172 (39.5 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

Assuming you play well and keep hazards up, you shouldn't be having any problems with max spdef mega venu (which isn't all that popular afaik).

Sorry, I meant to say that Landorus-I was the only thing that could deal with SpD Venusaur (which is pretty popular on stall teams) without stealth rock/spikes being up. Seeing that Deoxys-D has limited staying power, and that stall teams have ways to get around defiant Bisarp, I can't always assume that I'll have hazards on the field. In addition, Venusaur can easily switch into the swords dance on Mawile, and put it to sleep with sleep powder. Its also useful for picking of damage against things like Skarmory and defensive Rotom-W. I can 2HKO both with Focus Blast, but there's only a 49% chance both will hit. If I have psychic I can lower their health substantially with Focus Blast, and then go for the KO with the accurate Psychic. I'll try out rock polish on an alt, but honestly, I prefer the ability to breeze past stall much more than sweeping in the long run.

I'll also try HP flying on Thundurus.

Edit: I think I'll try Rock Polish over HP Ice and see how that works.

 

[cuteflounder]

Hi, I run a very similar to yours on the ladder and am currently 1900+ so I have a few minor suggestions regarding moveset choices.

I would consider Calm Mind over HP Ice on Landorus. Calm Mind allows Lando-I to bulldoze through teams and gives your team an easier time against Mega Venusaur, which annoys a substantial portion of your team. I personally use Sludge Wave over Focus Blast on Calm Mind Lando-I to destroy fairies and have a strong, reliable option against Rotom-W/Zapdos, especially since +1 Psychic 2HKOs Skarmory anyway.

I would stick with Psychic on Thundurus because there is really no reason to run HP Flying and lower your IVs.

You could try out HP Electric over HP Flying on Keldeo since you already have multiple things that can bait in and deal with Mega Venusaur. HP Electric allows you to have something that is guaranteed to hit MegaGyara for good damage regardless if it's mega evolved or not and can also help with checking BDrum Azumarill.

Otherwise this team is fairly standard, but definitely solid. Good luck!

 

[TheInsanity]

I would stick with Psychic on Thundurus because there is really no reason to run HP Flying and lower your IVs.

You could try out HP Electric over HP Flying on Keldeo since you already have multiple things that can bait in and deal with Mega Venusaur. HP Electric allows you to have something that is guaranteed to hit MegaGyara for good damage regardless if it's mega evolved or not and can also help with checking BDrum Azumarill.

Without the HP flying megasaur has always a free switch to spam leech seed, without grass mons/magic guard.



Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Taunt
- Focus Blast
- Thunder Wave

Taunt can add more stallbreaking material.

Chansey is a common switch against thundy. With taunt u can totally shut down the toxicstall set. 2 psychic on 2 mon with the same weakness to ice is redunant. Even if taunt megasaur he cannot leech seed or heal with synthesis.

I used a similar deo-d with rocky helmet on my team. Even special attackers runs knock off, 50% of times red card is useless.

 

[ApplepieFTW]

Very solid team but yeah hp flying over psychic on thundurus. Same base power with psychic only se on poison and fighting which really doesnt help you. I love special thundurus but i like the physical therian better. Personal preference. Also on showdown you can still use max ivs even if you have an hp that would normally change it. No reason to have all 30s on landy, thundy, or keldeo

i think a landorus t physical variant would work better for this team. You can run edgequake and have two good coverage moves on its massive 145 base attack. Preference though, try it on a alt showdown acc and see how it does in comparison.

Fire fang feels bad on mawile idk why but it does. If you could subSD on that thing though it would be great just take out its counters and watch it sweep.

Hp fire>flying on keldeo. It shouldnt try to cover venu as it will just get ohkod by giga drain and all its damage done will be put right back on venu anyways.

The hidden power part aint true. If you select hp fire it will adjust your iv's, and if you change back to 31 you end up with the wrong hidden power.

 

[xJownage]

The hidden power part aint true. If you select hp fire it will adjust your iv's, and if you change to back to 31 you end up with the wrong hidden power.

works for me...idk i was using a keldeo with hp fire and flying on a different team, and both times i reset the ivs and it worked.....